Coincident or not ? You decide

[manfred]

Some may have heard of the Roman emperor Elagabalus, whose official name was Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus, but he became so despised in Rome, he was not called that after his death, and merely referred to as Elagabalus.

He became emperor when he was about 16, and he was assassinated some 2 years or so later, in 222.

He was special in lots of ways, for a start we was pretty much a kid emperor, he was also bi-sexual and liked to dress up as a woman.

However, all that on one side... here is the strange bit about him:

He was a Syrian, and he was the priest of a Middle Eastern deity before he became emperor:

The name of this deity was Ilāh hag-Gabal (Latinized into Elagabalus) This is Syriac and the "G" is aspirated and sounds much like a Dutch "ch" or "g". Ilāh hag-Gabal is in fact ALLAH - ha - HUBAL) = The God of the hill/mountain. This deity also had, would you believe it, three consorts, which this emperor identified as the Roman goddesses Astarte, Minerva, and Urania.... Now, who else had 3 consorts?

And it gets stranger: This emperor Elagabalus imported his religion to Rome and briefly made it the state religion, with himself as the high priest. As sign of this "priesthood" he had himself publicly circumcised. Now, isn't that odd?

And furthermore: in this religion we find the worship/kissing of a BLACK STONE, broadly conical, and meteoric. Furthermore, he started a big festival around this stone , during which many animals were killed and eaten.

Sure, we will also find some differences, such this deity was identified with the sun god by him, whereas in Arabia is was the moon good. In both cases the culturally most important celestial body in both cases, though.

Also, the stone was carried through the city on a golden chariot, so it circled the people, rather than the people circling the stone.

I leave it up to you to work out how the cult that Elagabalus briefly brought to Rome is perhaps related to some other cult?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus

[ISLAM_rules]

Elagabalus was the prophet sent by Allah to the Romans, and he tried show them Islam. They kill him!!

[manfred]

Elagabalus was the prophet sent by Allah to the Romans, and he tried show them Islam. They kill him!!

Here is a bust of him:



and here is an artist's impression based on what we know about him:




OK.... Now Elagabalus had a somewhat eccentric sex life, to put it politely, but that seems to something he has in common with Mohammed. If you are right, he must be the only prophet of Islam we actually have a true likeness of.

In effect you are saying that the particular deity he was a priest of was Allah. We know this deity also was Hubal, as the name alone tells us. His religion, obviously had nothing at all in common with Judaism, it would have been one of the cults the Israelites encountered and rejected, on of the many "Baal" cults.

But if you are correct, then Elagabalus is concrete proof that the roots of Islam are NOT in Judaism but in something else entirely. It seems you are happy to confirm that Islam is essentially rooted in the Middle Eastern Baal cult.

[ISLAM_rules]

You are the fattest my intellectual superior hear. You talk rubbish only. Someone need to shut you up.

Elagabalus stone head true picture, maybe, he other one propaganda.

The Roman first cut off the head then told many lies on him. You only write about that. Show me the writing of Elagabalus and his true meassage Abu Fitna.

[Hombre]

Elagabalus was the prophet sent by Allah to the Romans, and he tried show them Islam. They kill him!!

But, Allah did not exist at that time. Allah was born only in 610 ACE & introduced by Profit Muhammad.

[manfred]

You are the fattest my intellectual superior hear. You talk rubbish only. Someone need to shut you up.

Elagabalus stone head true picture, maybe, he other one propaganda.

The Roman first cut off the head then told many lies on him. You only write about that. Show me the writing of Elagabalus and his true meassage Abu Fitna.

Speak to people in the same way you want to be spoke to please. And "hear" is different from "here". Check it out... As to being fat, well, if anything I am under weight.

I will entirely accept that Roman writers MAY have exaggerated some things about him after his death, specially perhaps his sexual behaviour. However, we have quite good evidence about his religious beliefs and the practices he introduced, including some archaeological evidence.

It seems for you, the same processes apply as to Mohammed. Somehow you are doing the same kind of editing of sources to only leave the things you believed in the first place.

The reason I brought this up is simple: he "replaced" the local religion with his deity, and introduced rites and practices very similar to those Mohammed introduced. This means that the roots of Islam are not found in Judaism or Christianity, but they are found in various Middle Eastern cults, centering around "Hubal" or "Baal" and so on.

It is uncanny we get animal slaughtering, black stone circulating and many more things presented by him, in much the same was as by Mohammed: it never was a case of convincing anyone, it was all done by force.

We do not have any writings by him... I guess he is another one of Allah's prophets whose efforts were in vain, and whose "handed down" text was lost... Allah really should be more careful.

[ISLAM_rules]

my intellectual superior. Prick.
you see not the truth.

Black stone from Kaaba went to Syie and then bring to Rum by this emperror. After he dead, stone returned to Kaaba, where first from, where placed by Adam and by Ibrahim and Ismail.

To try hard and all you make is more proff for Islam.

[manfred]

Do not call people names.

So, according to you, this black stone in the Kaaba was originally an idol from Syria...

So why are Muslims worshipping this idol today?

[frankie]

my intellectual superior. Prick.
you see not the truth.

Black stone from Kaaba went to Syie and then bring to Rum by this emperror. After he dead, stone returned to Kaaba, where first from, where placed by Adam and by Ibrahim and Ismail.

To try hard and all you make is more proff for Islam.

Islam rules:
The faith you trust in the salvation of your soul is reconstituted paganism, the black stone is a relic of its pagan past, which is still in situ just because your prophet kissed it.

No prophet of the Bible ever advocated or condoned the veneration of stones, because stones have no value in the worship of the Bible God,Yahweh,they only have value in paganism.

Islam's foundation is pre Islamic paganism, Allah is its greatest of pagan idols, it is not the God of the Bible, the very God Islam claims to get its authority, and therefore represents, but in reality does not.

You, and all Muslims are victims of a great lie, you have been well and truly deceived, the greatest of all deceivers, according to the god you claim to represent(Yahweh) is Satan, who opposes the Bible God, and works to destroy everything He represents, which in turn puts you and all Muslims on the side of Satan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmoHxiK69Q

[manfred]

BTW ... Elagabalus, the one you say is the "prophet" for the Romans, has also been credited to be the inventor of the whoppy cushion.... and he offered a reward for any surgeon who could give him a vagina as well as a penis.... And he also was the only emperor who offered government appointments on the basis of penis size... You had to show your "package" and the one with the the biggest thingy got the job...

Are all these "prophets" you mention somewhat strange, as he was...? Or was he uniquely odd among prophets?

[ISLAM_rules]

I dont know what is whoopy cushion... may he invent maybe not. If he invent he sure clever.

And the other thing you say is lie from Roman who kill him, it is the excuse the say.

I think he brought Islam to Rome, and people not listen. So later Allah destroy Rome and gave it to the Muslim.

[frankie]

I dont know what is whoopy cushion... may he invent maybe not. If he invent he sure clever.

And the other thing you say is lie from Roman who kill him, it is the excuse the say.

I think he brought Islam to Rome, and people not listen. So later Allah destroy Rome and gave it to the Muslim.

islam rules

Rome was never defeated by the Muslim invaders, they just pillaged its surroundings, gathering as much booty as they could carry, as per their false prophets example, and then lost much of it when their ships were destroyed by a storm at sea.

Invading and pillaging lands is not what true religion Is about, seemingly the alledged angel that Mohammed encountered didn't know the difference between spiritual warfare and military warfare, mistakenly instructing him to use fighting people as his modus operandi,instead of using words alone.

[manfred]

I dont know what is whoopy cushion

There you go, dear:





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whoopee_cushion

A whoopee (or whoopie) cushion, also known as a farting bag, windy blaster, poo-poo cushion, and Razzberry Cushion, is a practical joke device involving flatulence humour, which produces a noise resembling a "raspberry" or human flatulence.

The modern one is made from rubber, in ancient times they used a bladder or stomach of an animal, I believe...

[Fernando]

"Farting bag"? And pre-ordained by Allah, too. So the old chap must have a sense of humour after all, to send a prophet to bring farting bags to mankind.

[ISLAM_rules]

Ah, so another lie...

[Fernando]

Ah, so another lie...

Isn't eveything pre-ordained by Allah then? Or do you mean that Allah hasn't got a sense of humour?

Nothing happens unless decreed by Allah (in the Book of Decrees)

The following verses from the Quran show that nothing happens unless ordained by Allah. That includes the good and the bad. The commentary also shows the attitudes that a Muslim needs to adopt in times of hardship and difficulties.

In Surah At-Tawba Allah gives His servants the assurance of His protection. He Says:

Say: “Nothing shall ever happen to us except what Allah has ordained for us. He is our Mawla (protector).” And in Allah let the believers put their trust.)

Quran (Surah Tawba, Verse 51)

http://www.iqrasense.com/quranic-tafsir/nothing-happens-unless-decreed-by-allah-in-the-book-of-decrees.html

So it must be Allah's sense of humour which upsets you - it figures, seeing as how you yourself clearly lack one.

[manfred]

To get back to this black stone business...

We find that meteorites have in fact be part of of many cults in the ancient world. In Cyprus, Paphos, to be precise, there was ancient temple which had a meteorite as an idol, as substitute to a statue of Aphrodite, borne of the sea in Cyprus, the goddess of love.

We have not only relicts of the temple, but also ancient coins depicting the actual stone.

In Ephesus, in modern day Turkey, then part of the Greek world, there was also a temple of Artemis, the goddess of the moon and the forests and hunts, you can still visit it today, it is a large complex. Also, in the same temple, there was worshipped a meteorite which was said to be in the image of Jupiter who is meant to have thrown it onto the earth. This particular temple and its focus of worship is also mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament texts, and a great many other writings.

Then we know about the one Elagabalus brought to Rome from Syria, as described above. There are several others also centred around the Middle East.

So the Kaaba in Mecca, before Mohammed was really not special. It was one of many such temples, a polytheist sanctuary with a meteorite idol like several others, and one of the least significant at that, being in a far away backwater. It was little more than a simpler, less sophisticated copy of other such places further north or west.

What these sanctuaries all have in common, the "black stone" they worship is always associated with the MAIN divine being of that temple. Possibly because of the rarity.

In ancient Egypt, meteorites were also held to be "divine", but there they made special artefacts out of them, such as a iron dagger so pure it does not rust, and hence seen as fit only for Pharaoh.

So, sorry, islam_rules, there is simply no way ALL of these were "Abraham's trinket". In fact, NONE of the were. The Israelites did to have any such sanctuaries, but their neighbours did.

[ISLAM_rules]

Filthy lies with honey word. Go to hell.

[Fernando]

Filthy lies with honey word. Go to hell.

So you are denying that pre-Islamic religions had black stones? It should be easy to check and I imagine that Manfred has done so. Why would it be so terrible, anyway? Is there any doubt that pre-Islamic Arabs worshipped a black stone and that Mohammed helped them put it in place while he was still a polytheist?

The stone was venerated at the Kaaba in pre-Islamic pagan times. According to Islamic tradition, it was set intact into the Kaaba's wall by the Islamic prophet Muhammad in the year 605 A.D., five years before his first revelation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

[Nosuperstition]

BTW ... Elagabalus, the one you say is the "prophet" for the Romans, has also been credited to be the inventor of the whoppy cushion.... and he offered a reward for any surgeon who could give him a vagina as well as a penis.... And he also was the only emperor who offered government appointments on the basis of penis size... You had to show your "package" and the one with the the biggest thingy got the job...

Are all these "prophets" you mention somewhat strange, as he was...? Or was he uniquely odd among prophets?

While running for presidency,Trump too said that he has a good xxx.Now that is in someway something that should be say one of the merit for being the president.