crazymonkie_ wrote: Yes, it's called "group identification," and it can be really, really dangerous. It's a situation where it's very easy to turn a gathering into a mob. Which is not to say that it happens all the time, or even most of the time. Just that it can. Especially if it has a galvanizing force, sense of moral assuredness and tendency to put logic aside for action or submission. Islam is not the only religion that does this by any stretch, but it's been a good many years since mobs started from churches, synagogues and Jewish temples never had the problem, and as for any of the Indian subcontinent religions? Pretty rare.
True, but still the majority of muslims are just peaceful living citizens in the west. There may be some elder in certain families who like to blame jews for controlling the media, and there may be occasional honor killings, but culture is also a part of it. In our cultures, it is pretty common to hit children, as punishment. Now this has instilled fear amongst many children, and to this day I choose not to face my father unless necessary. It happens. If Islam were to go away, then we would still have these cultures to take care of, where love marraiges are frowned upon, and love outside of family choosing, can lead to slauthering.
crazymonkie_ wrote: Again: It's not redemption, it's group identification.
Redemption can be found in many ways, but by being a part of a group, an individual finds acceptance.
crazymonkie_ wrote: You don't have to, but to each his own. Some people find inner peace this way, some people find it the other way.
You've already acknowledged that the core of your former religion is rotten. I realize that one big reason you're staying is that it's comfortable for you, but it's definitely not good for your mental health to constantly be around individualist-effacing events like group genuflection (I don't even consider the salat prayer because the important part is the movement, not the idea behind it) and around people who REALLY loathe what you now believe. Find somewhere else to hang out, get new friends, just don't stick around. [/quote]
I still consider myself a former muslim, and I have stopped praying. I am done with this religion, not because it is harsh, but because I could not find the truth in it. As for my old friends, they are still similar. They don't abuse me or anything, and I am willing to take my time, and debate them.
crazymonkie_ wrote: Also, as a side note: It's really not worth the effort to reply reasonably to iffo. Sometimes I like to indulge in a fantasy of all people being able to understand logic and come to reasonable conclusions based on evidence, but I've come to the conclusion over the years that it's simply not going to happen. As the saying goes, you can't save them all.
I can see where you are going with that, but if I was on the other end of the debate, and I was losing strong points, then I would be a bit bitter too. I just think that you guys should be a bit lineant on him, as he has taken his time to be here, to defend his religion, which not many muslims do.
iffo wrote: Some people deserve it. She is puttings word in my mouth that I was happy when 3000 americans died just because I am muslim. I don't feel one bit guilty calling names in this kind a situation
You should be patient. I understand that some people can attack you, with harshness, but if you respond to them with harshness, they will likely use that against you.
iffo wrote: I know what you are saying. Forgiveness is good, but it is not always possibe. Someone god forbids rapes your mother and after that she sucides, the guys says sorry I will not do it again, i will see how you can forgive him. Anyway this my last post on this topic, its been lingering too much and is irrelevant
Yes, but that person has to feel guilt. In Islam, guilt is good. This is the way you know, you have done a mistake, and feel bad about it.
yeezevee wrote: Yes Sheep will be comfortable around sheep. it is the law of nature.. But for some reason Human being is exceptional and I am not sure why? Allah knows the best.. God knows the best..
Good ideology, but I don't see what my age, has to do with anything. I am just saying, that being a muslim can feel good. I have been there. Try being a muslim for one day in the west, and go for prayers and such, and you will see that, you feel like you belong. Now, this is entirely psychological, but it is tre among many.
skynightblaze wrote: DO you think thats self defense? Quran does ask you to fight those who fight you but its not the only type of fighting that is prescribed for you. Offensive fighting that is Jihad is prescribed for you too.Lets examine this topic in detail now.This verse orders the believers to FIGHT TILL ISLAM RULES ALL .Thats not self defense .HAd it meant self defense it would have said so . One doesnt require to make someone believe in his religion for self defense. Thats pure offensive fighting.
Well, these are what I learned as a muslim, throughout my life. Now, I see what you mean. I will use his as one of my arguements against Islam. Thank you.
skynightblaze wrote: Polygamy is permitted by islam.Islam doesnt say that you can practice polygamy only in cases where you can help widows.That condition isnt necessary so I dont understand how you can say that humans are misusing the law . Had quran said clearly that polygamy is to be practiced only if you can help widows then you would have a point. Why didnt quran clearly lay such a condition? Would the muslims be able to misuse in that case? Now its a different story if muslims misuse the law even when quran clarifies it but in that case religion cannot be blamed but the humans . In our case islam doesnt lay any restrictions and hence islam is to be blamed.
I dont deny islam has become a culture and a way of life. I want to ask you whether its desirable to have islam as a way of life in general when you have so many bad things in it? I pointed out the problem with that.Accepting islam as a way of life comes with disadvantages i.e you cannot convince people that they shouldnt follow the bad parts because you yourself have accepted islam as a way of life. That is the point I am trying to make.
I do not support polygamy, as I am a human being, and know that every woman deserves her own husband, and not shared. Also, according to government and stats websites, almost all the muslim countries has more male than female population. THis should be a great arguement, if you choose to debate muslims.
Thank you all for opening my eyes even more, but next time, I would appreciate if more facts were used, rather then some frivolous accusations. Every religion has flaws, and I don't think this is the topic, where I can discuss such issues. Thank you.
"Do you remember what you told me once? That every passing minute is a another chance to turn it all around" - Vanilla Sky
"If I could just go back... if I could rub everything out... starting with myself" - The Talented Mr. Ripley