She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Idesigner
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Idesigner »

Nosuperstition wrote:
Neither Pratiloma (high caste women-low caste men) nor Anuloma (high caste men-low caste women) marriages were permitted in Hinduism, though Anuloma liasons were tolerated. The children in such cases always belonged the caste of lower caste women.

Very few marriages among Hindus are outside the caste (may be 2 to 3%) even today, and it brings a high degree of shame and disgrace to a high caste family (and its community) if their daughter marries a lower caste.

(I have never come across a Brahmin woman marrying a lower caste man for love during my stay in India. A Brahmin family would rather have such a woman marrying outside Hinduism to someone like a Syrian Christian.)
If that be the case why did the terms Anuloma and Pratiloma come into existence?I know of a case where a Brahmin girl and a relative of mine got married.MassiveZebra said that even inter-racial marriages have more or less come to a naught in the West.When I asked godel's_paradox after having
posted a site that says that about 4% of marriages in the U.S are inter-racial and how long it will take to get rid of race,Recovering Leftist said that diversity of mankind needs to be preserved.
No one denies that there were no Gandharva marriages in ancient time.

Way back in ancient days varna concept yet to take strong hold and there was some sort of egalitarianism among aryan tribes. There were marriages among warriors and priestly castes. Pretty soon priestly caste asserted it superirity and later works such as epics, purans etc. will call those marriages pratilom and hence frawned upon. There is lots of extrapolation demeaning such unions. Well known is curse to Devyani where she was told by a brahmin boy ( she tried to seduce him) that " now only kshtriya boy will marry her".

Dont listen to Yohan about Nambudiri Brahmin girls craving for his Chacko-Wacko-Kurian-Syrian,mathai-fathai christo-Brahmins. In Gujarat there are lots of Brahmin girl - other caste boy marriages. How many? I dont keep track.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Idesigner wrote:No one denies that there were no Gandharva marriages in ancient time.

Way back in ancient days varna concept yet to take strong hold and there was some sort of egalitarianism among aryan tribes. There were marriages among warriors and priestly castes. Pretty soon priestly caste asserted it superirity and later works such as epics, purans etc. will call those marriages pratilom and hence frawned upon. There is lots of extrapolation demeaning such unions. Well known is curse to Devyani where she was told by a brahmin boy ( she tried to seduce him) that " now only kshtriya boy will marry her".

Dont listen to Yohan about Nambudiri Brahmin girls craving for his Chacko-Wacko-Kurian-Syrian,mathai-fathai christo-Brahmins. In Gujarat there are lots of Brahmin girl - other caste boy marriages. How many? I dont keep track.
Yes, I am a bard,my father is x profession and my mother is y profession so on goes a Vedic verse.Yohan then said that Aryans are primitive tribals and all tribals are egalitarian,same goes for the Aryans.He even said in his HPyroli avatar that those who wrote those verses were quite useless.Then I asked him whether he can compose such metres,he did not answer that question.So the Aryan society did indeed lay foundations for intellectual developments in their society.So much so that you had to sacrifice a bull to beget a son with profound knowledge and oratary in the Upanishads. :tongueout:

Devayaani yearned for Katcha's love .Katcha was the son of Brihaspati.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

Idesigner wrote:---- In Gujarat there are lots of Brahmin girl - other caste boy marriages. How many? I dont keep track.
I also hear talk like that from Indians, but from what I have read somewhere statistics do not support the word "lots". It puts it 2 -3% range for all inter-caste marriages. Inter-varna could be even less.

Island of Bali is Hindu. It was Hinduism that introduced the caste system there on a casteless people. Here is a blip on the problems in inter-caste marriages there. During my travels, I have found that Balinese were rather open and easy to discuss on matters such as caste and its social issues. People of higher caste broadcast their caste very easily in Bali, as I have observed among the Brahmins in India. On the whole Indians tend to be pretty secretive (and defensive) in talking in public about their own caste situation, though they practice it vigorously in private.

http://blog.baliwww.com/wedding-and-chapel/2108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

ryan wrote:A bard am I, my dad's a physician, mammy lays corn upon the stones.
Striving for wealth, with varied plans, we follow our desires like kine.
Flow, Indu, flow for Indra's sake.
Rig Veda 9.112.3
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... &start=165" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Idesigner wrote: There is lots of extrapolation demeaning such unions. Well known is curse to Devyani where she was told by a brahmin boy ( she tried to seduce him) that " now only kshtriya boy will marry her".
Well I did see in an old film in which marriages between guru putrika or daughter of a guru and a sishya or a student is unacceptable.I only know that Katcha refused to marry Devayaani.I think might be kings are free to marry other Brahmin girls.I do not know that he cursed as such.

Well , Emperor Ashoka (who patronised Budhdhism but did not destroy Hinduism using Inquisition stating that competitions between religions is good )was the son of Subhadra,a Brahmin woman and Emperor Bimbisaara of
low caste Muraaya tribe.And it was the poor Brahmin father who asked the king to marry off his daughter and not the other way around.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

Nosuperstition wrote:
ryan wrote:A bard am I, my dad's a physician, mammy lays corn upon the stones.
Striving for wealth, with varied plans, we follow our desires like kine.
Flow, Indu, flow for Indra's sake.
Rig Veda 9.112.3
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... &start=165" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Idesigner wrote: There is lots of extrapolation demeaning such unions. Well known is curse to Devyani where she was told by a brahmin boy ( she tried to seduce him) that " now only kshtriya boy will marry her".
Well I did see in an old film in which marriages between guru putrika or daughter of a guru and a sishya or a student is unacceptable.I only know that Katcha refused to marry Devayaani.I think might be kings are free to marry other Brahmin girls.I do not know that he cursed as such.

Well , Emperor Ashoka (who patronised Budhdhism but did not destroy Hinduism using Inquisition stating that competitions between religions is good )was the son of Subhadra,a Brahmin woman and Emperor Bimbisaara of
low caste Muraaya tribe.And it was the poor Brahmin father who asked the king to marry off his daughter and not the other way around.
What are you trying to prove? Rig Veda mainly shows life among Aryans before the caste system. Much of the personal lives of Mauryan emperors, and the boundaries of the empire itself are not fully certain by any standards, for lack of verifiable proof.

In any case, using exceptions to prove something is the wrong approach. It is like using quotes from Koran and so on to prove Islam is a religion of peace. It is like using Gandhi's own quotes to prove, he was evil, as a few fanatics do in this forum. One misses the gist, the big picture. It is like saying there never was any racial discrimination in USA because Obama's white mother married a black man.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Yohan wrote:Much of the personal lives of Mauryan emperors, and the boundaries of the empire itself are not fully certain by any standards, for lack of verifiable proof.
Then what constitutes the 'verifiable proof'?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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gizzin
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by gizzin »

Yohan wrote: What are you trying to prove? Rig Veda mainly shows life among Aryans before the caste system. Much of the personal lives of Mauryan emperors, and the boundaries of the empire itself are not fully certain by any standards, for lack of verifiable proof.

In any case, using exceptions to prove something is the wrong approach. It is like using quotes from Koran and so on to prove Islam is a religion of peace. It is like using Gandhi's own quotes to prove, he was evil, as a few fanatics do in this forum. One misses the gist, the big picture. It is like saying there never was any racial discrimination in USA because Obama's white mother married a black man.
Obama couldn't resist becoming embroiled in a racial argument though when one of his personal friends got arrested for calling the police officer a "racist" after he tackled him for a public call to say this professor Henry Gates was breaking into a property. It wasn't about a white police officer turning up.... I think most people would be grateful for the fact and explain it away but this was a case where Mr.Gates has powerful friends and colour to some people is as strong as the cult/religion they belong to.... I think Obama has finally shown his true colours whatever they may be.

This is not what a president of the USA should become involved in.... no-matter what his personal thoughts, he should act impartially and to call the state police department "stupid" for doing their job only enforces his own impartiality and shows him up for hating whites.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

Nosuperstition wrote:
Yohan wrote:Much of the personal lives of Mauryan emperors, and the boundaries of the empire itself are not fully certain by any standards, for lack of verifiable proof.
Then what constitutes the 'verifiable proof'?
Mostly:
- Evidence from multiple sources
- History based upon a passing comment in a religious text not sufficient

One needs to keep in mind that Mauryan Emperor Asoka, whom Indians make a big deal now, was unknown to them until British historians discovered him in 19th century. Mauryan empire maximum boundary is set based upon the locations Asokan pillars or inscriptions, and also certain claims, but not based upon much else. When emperor Asoka turned into a Buddhist monkish ruler of peace, many other rulers let his greater message of peace to be broadcasted in their kingdoms. That in no way meant an empire. It might have been like the present day European Union with many fully independent nations. And so on .....

A lot of ancient world history is not 100 proof, but much of ancient Indian history lack proof of no-contest. Why do you think BJP Hindu fanatics try to re-write Indian history? India is not alone in this. Other areas like meso-America also falls into this catagory, though theirs is a much later history.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Yohan wrote:- Evidence from multiple sources
- History based upon a passing comment in a religious text not sufficient
You have repeatedly stated that Aryan invasion of India/Indus Valley as well as the Jewish conquest of Israel are both facts when the myths in those religious texts are filtered off.So going by the same token,should not the history of Ashoka be taken as evidence?
Yohan wrote:If one filters out the exaggerations and supernaturals, religious texts tend to be accurate history sources. Bible, both old and new testaments, are no different in this matter. Much of the Indian history comes from Buddhist and Hindu religious texts, proven to be accurate historically too. More often the religious texts prove events contrary to the goals to which they were written. That is where the bickering starts between the believers and the unbelivers. Examples are: Aryan invasion into India, Jews have no historic right to the land of Canaan.

The 1993 discovery of the inscription about King David (noted above)proves the point.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... &start=135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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charleslemartel
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by charleslemartel »

Yohan wrote:It is like using quotes from Koran and so on to prove Islam is a religion of peace. It is like using Gandhi's own quotes to prove, he was evil, as a few fanatics do in this forum. One misses the gist, the big picture. It is like saying there never was any racial discrimination in USA because Obama's white mother married a black man.
No, it is like using quotes from Koran to prove that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. And yes, the same is true for Gandhi too. You didn't have anything to say worthwhile in that Gandhi Thread.

Get over the hatred for your own ancestral past; it is consuming you from within and clouds your mind and intellect.
Islam is a funny religion which is misunderstood by its scholars and correctly understood by ordinary Muslims.
Faith is keeping your eyes shut when looking at the world, and/or keeping your eyes open only for the beauty of the world.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

Nosuperstition wrote:
Yohan wrote:- Evidence from multiple sources
- History based upon a passing comment in a religious text not sufficient
You have repeatedly stated that Aryan invasion of India/Indus Valley as well as the Jewish conquest of Israel are both facts when the myths in those religious texts are filtered off.So going by the same token,should not the history of Ashoka be taken as evidence?
Yohan wrote:If one filters out the exaggerations and supernaturals, religious texts tend to be accurate history sources. Bible, both old and new testaments, are no different in this matter. Much of the Indian history comes from Buddhist and Hindu religious texts, proven to be accurate historically too. More often the religious texts prove events contrary to the goals to which they were written. That is where the bickering starts between the believers and the unbelivers. Examples are: Aryan invasion into India, Jews have no historic right to the land of Canaan.

The 1993 discovery of the inscription about King David (noted above)proves the point.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... &start=135" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Emperor Asoka came to light through Buddhist religious texts. You seem to be missing the gist of what I am saying. I would stop there before explaining further as it seems to confuse you. In any case, you have a tendancy to bringup exceptions to invalidate a point. That in general shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

charleslemartel wrote:Get over the hatred for your own ancestral past; it is consuming you from within and clouds your mind and intellect.
Get over the blind love for your own ancestral past; it is consuming you from within and clouds your mind and intellect.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Yohan wrote:Emperor Asoka came to light through Buddhist religious texts. You seem to be missing the gist of what I am saying. I would stop there before explaining further as it seems to confuse you. In any case, you have a tendancy to bringup exceptions to invalidate a point. That in general shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.
Putting your words into your mouth.Upon being refuted thus,you resort to cheap shots.That had been your nature right from the beginning.Just as they say 'naalukaku emuka ledu.The tongue has no bone,so it can be twisted as you like.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Yohan
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Yohan »

Nosuperstition wrote:
Yohan wrote:Emperor Asoka came to light through Buddhist religious texts. You seem to be missing the gist of what I am saying. I would stop there before explaining further as it seems to confuse you. In any case, you have a tendancy to bringup exceptions to invalidate a point. That in general shows a lack of knowledge on the topic.
Putting your words into your mouth.Upon being refuted thus,you resort to cheap shots.That had been your nature right from the beginning.Just as they say 'naalukaku emuka ledu.The tongue has no bone,so it can be twisted as you like.
Read up on how India's history was discovered. That will prevent you from writing nonsense.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Yohan wrote:Read up on how India's history was discovered. That will prevent you from writing nonsense.
Give me the links.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

Yohan wrote:
charleslemartel wrote:Get over the hatred for your own ancestral past; it is consuming you from within and clouds your mind and intellect.
Get over the blind love for your own ancestral past; it is consuming you from within and clouds your mind and intellect.
It is also worth noting that child marraiges were performed in medieval Europe. At the marraige cermony of prince Phileppe of Denmark ,the commentator in BBC/CNN told that eight year old royals were married off in that church in the past.

At the time of Independance the average life span of an Indian is 29 years according to Pearl s. Buck a well known orientalist who was the daughter of missionary parents in China.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... ht=#126659" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get over your blind admiration for your ancestors with the paedophile culture of medieval Christendom.

In the standardised Manusmriti it is mentioned that the marriagable age is some 18 years or so for the girl and then as 9 or so in later part of the book.In Mahabharata king Virata asks Arjuna to marry his daughter which Arjuna refuses promptly saying that she is fit to marry his son Abhimanyu.There is a saying in Telugu eedu jodu meaning age and matching used while deciding arranged marriages.So Hindus possibly turned inward and married off their daughters early possibly fearing a muslim conquest or might have adopted the same from muslims who generally ravish unmarried women after bride-catching but did not go for married women.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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tu quo que.

Post by Nosuperstition »

Well, Yohan is quite appreciative of the history written by the British.The British historians rubbished Hindu mythological figures as living for too long and surfacing abruptly all of a sudden in new periods.Idesigner also stated the same quoting Parasuram who lived for hundreds of thousands of years from Treta yug to Dwaparyug.I agreed with him that it was absurd.
One of the most intriguing facts in the Bible is the immense life spans of the patriarchs before and just after the flood. Adam lived 930 years, Methuselah the longest lived of the patriarchs lived 969 years. Noah lived 950 years.
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/why- ... er-it.html

Well then what is the take of Christians on the above piece of information? :*)
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: She is Taliban and this Guy is very Smart Indian taliban

Post by Nosuperstition »

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2251&p=56616#p56616" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Similar contradictory phrases are encountered in relation to child marriage in verses (IX - 94) and (IX - 90).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manusmriti ... ontroversy
S.A.M wrote:Girls at the age of 3 were forced into sex in both the Talmud and the Bible
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... &start=210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If God did not censure this paedophilia just like what he did with David and Bathsheba,then there would always exist those who can twist/use the above information.Strange is such a God who does not even know that paedophilia causes physical and mental harm to kids.
And to valiant Arjun offered Matsya's princess fair and young!

"Pardon, monarch," answered Arjun, "but I may not take as bride
Matsya's young and beauteous princess whom I love with father's pride,

She hath often met me trusting in the inner palace hall,
As a daughter on a father waited on my loving call!

I have trained her kokil accents, taught her maiden steps in dance,
Watched her skill and varied graces all her native charms enhance,

Pure is she in thought and action,
spotless as my hero boy,
Grant her to my son, O monarch, as his wedded wife and joy!

Abhimanyu trained in battle, handsome youth of godlike face,
Krishna's sister, fair Subhadra, bore the child of princely grace,
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/dutt/maha06.htm

In a historical context,Princess Samyukta, daughter of Jai Chand also ran away with her lover prince Prithvi Raj Chauhan after a swayamvara..
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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