fudgy wrote:charleslemartel wrote:
Fudgy, let us change the "shooting stars" to meteors or meteorites if you wish. They couldn't be fired at anything, let alone Jinns, because firing implies something stationary thrown/hurled/propelled suddenly towards some target. We know that meteorites are not stationary before they enter in to the earth's atmosphere; they keep revolving around the sun at various speeds. Because of the difference in their speeds compared to that of the earth, they enter in to the earth's atmosphere; faster ones catch up with earth and the slower ones are caught up by the earth. Then they are pulled in by the earth's gravity and we see them tracing a fiery trail.
Secondly, if you claim that their movement towards the earth's surface is due to their being fired towards the jinns who flee towards the earth's surface, it would imply the following:
1. Allah resides within the earth's atmosphere, because it is only when these already moving meteorites enter the atmosphere, they get pulled in by the earth's gravity and hence change their original course.
2. As a corollary to the point 1 above, it would appear that Allah thought planets, stars (including the sun) and other heavenly bodies were contained within the earth's atmosphere.
3. Jinns are earth bound entities and they reside on earth's surface or somewhere below it. They feel they would be safer on the earth's surface, so they flee towards it.
lol that's it? First of all Charles Quran is not specifically talking about Meteroids. Secondly, things that work like a missile in the cosmos are not stationary at all they are moving since everything in space moves. This is God we are talking about He can fire stuff that are already moving. Are you picturing some guy holding a gun and firing a bullet? lol.
At any rate, what the Quran is saying is that Allah has beautified the cosmos with luminous entities, and although these entities are beautiful in nature some of them are just as deadly. There is nothing scientifically absurd about it. It is saying that some of the Jinns are being deterred/pursued with a
Shihaab i.e. a blaze. This could be referring to a magnetar shooting out gamma rays, God firing blazars, and so many other weird stuff in cosmos to deter the Jinns. Again things need not be stationary for God to fire them.
Although, I do not treat the Quran to be scientific, what deemed to be absurd turning out to be quite accurate statement by the Quran.
Nabil,
OK, time to expose the liar
15:16 (Y. Ali) It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders;
It's talking about the stars, not meteors because meteors have nothing to do with the zodiacal signs, right? Right.
15:17 (Y. Ali) And (moreover) We have guarded them from every evil spirit accursed:
The Stars are gaurded from evil spirits going to the lower heavens to evesdrop
15:18 (Y. Ali) But any that gains a hearing by stealth, is pursued by a flaming fire, bright (to see)
So the stars are protected by meteors? How so? Stars are millions of miles away. But, of course, nobody knew that in the 7th century and neither did Allah, apparently
Also, do meteors "pursue" or "follow" anything? Of course not, it just looked like they flew across the sky chasing something. But we all no today, that this idea is radically wrong, although fully expected from a 7th century man.
And, of course, as the Quran always does, it repeats the same concept in other places
37:6 (Y. Ali) We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
That's not meteors, it's stars, just like in 15:16. The proof is that it mentions the zodiacal signs in 15:16, so there's no escaping this, we KNOW what it's referring to.
37:7 (Y. Ali) (For beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious evil spirits,
Just like in 15:17. Why do the stars need to be gaurded, or why would we even say that they themselves guard? And you don't think this is embarrassing? You must be blind.
37:8 (Y. Ali) (So) they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side,
So the jinn try to go to the region of the stars and evesdrop on heaven's conversations, never realizing how far the stars are from each other when this little fairy tale was created.
37:9 (Y. Ali) Repulsed, for they are under a perpetual penalty,
Stars or even meteors protects one from reaching the region of the stars? Come on fudgy, even you can't be this
oblivious.
37:10 (Y. Ali) Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Do meteors "pursue" anything, even invisible jinn? Even a space shuttle?
67:5 (Y. Ali) And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.
See how it says "adorned". We can use any word we want like decorate etc...but the meaning is still the same. And in order for something to be an adornment, it means it's always there are there for a long period of time so that it can adorn. But the adornment from meteors lasts for a mere second or two, so he's talking about the stars in the sky and maybe meteors as well and simply associating both as the same thing or possibly saying that the stars shoot meteors.
72:8 (Y. Ali) 'And we pried into the secrets of heaven; but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires.
72:9 (Y. Ali) 'We used, indeed, to sit there in (hidden) stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listen now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush.
In ambush? Huh? Meteors ambush? Stars ambush?
Fudgy, what does it take? I guess it takes nothing because you are unreachable. If Allah has seled my heart, then surely he has sealed your mind.
And about your attempted lie and gamma rays and the like, I'll debunk that it two seconds. 15:18 says these flames are bright to see. Are gamma rays bright for us to see? No. Are meteors or even stars? Yes. Case closed. Totaly busted and lie rejected, and you deserve it for even attempting it, but it seems like you'll attempt anything as long as it allows you to hold on to your precious beliefs.
Now you can clearly see why Asad went out of his way to lie about these verses. He knew the problem as do others such as even Zakir Naik. The curious problem is that mister answer man Naik with all of the answers won't comment on this issue. Isn't that curious? It sure is.
I must admit, I feel jealous!
. You should be jealous!
