Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

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Maersk
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by Maersk »

Try to apply Muslims sensiblity on me, my family, my friends and they get more in return the Islamic kind. Try to steal my rights to call the filth filth, that's also stealing the air I breathe in. Why can't Muslims understand Islam is more than just landmass.

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Cassie
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by Cassie »

The Infamous wrote:You're a most excellent idiot. It's always difficult to read through your posts and find posts which are pertinent and which I can reply to. I'm talking about President McKinley's waging the Spanish-American wars resulting in the deaths of thousands of Filipino's. What part of that don't you understand? I'm not talking about World War 2 and the Japanese in this incident, and I sure as hell ain't talking about General MacArthur. Don't change the subject. Don't rant on some stupid BS that I keep hearing from you day in and day out.
You don't make it clear what you're talking about, do you? How do I know if you don't give specifics?

You think you’re the only one who can conquer? Philippines belonged to the Spanish – which was ceded to the Americans following the Spanish-American War of 1898. It belonged to the Americans. Legally. A country is legally permitted to deal with its internal insurrections.
The Infamous wrote:"Your Prophet was a murderer, he stole and he raped" << Blah Blah, do you actually call this an argument? Grow up. You said that America has the right to go into Vietnam, Iraq, Cambodia, Laos, Grenada, Panama and the Philippines and do as they wish, but yet you criticize the Prophet for killing his enemies. You're a filthy hypocrite. The Prophet had the right to do as he wished, he had the right to kill his enemies because he deemed them as a threat to the Muslim State. You judge the Kafirs by one criterion but then judge the Muslims by another criterion. Shut the **** up Cassandra because you know you sound like a broken record.
He had no right to behead PoWs. He had no right to turn traitor against the Meccans. He was a Meccan and therefore what he did was treason. He had no right to raid their caravans. He had no right to enslave women and children. He was a criminal. And you know it.

He was supposed to be a prophet - but at the end of the day, he was nothing more than a bloodthirsty thug. That's why Muslims are the most thuggish people in the world.

What sort of state commits genocide, ethnic-cleansing, banditry, pedophilia, rape, enslavement of women and chilren? The Muslim state, of course. LoL.
The Infamous wrote:And as for the other Kafirs in this forum, don't try and 're-translate' the Hadith where it said that the warriors were killed. It's clear that the Prophet spared the boys and killed their men. And every man is a soldier. Even the old men.
I think Aksel already proved you were wrong in this regard. The ‘warriors’ were only ‘men’. The Jews of Medina never attacked anyone. Their history was peaceful during Muhammad’s day. If you read the history without bias you would see they went out of their way to avoid violence. It was YOU Muslims who attacked them. They never once attacked you.

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sunshine
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by sunshine »

@ Afttak,

Lets discuss about your filthy *sharia* a bit.

Suppose your father wants to have sex with his female slave, can you prevent him? it will be against your Koran's directives, isnt it?

suppose you get to know your wife is accused of adultery. you want her to be stoned to death as per hadith (oral diarrhea). but how will you prove it man?? for that you need 4 witness. Have you ever thought how on earth a women can commit adultery in front of four men. only muslim rotten mind can think this way.

Suppose you have been accused of theft. later those GREAT islamic suckers find out that it was a mistake but by this time your hands and legs were cut off from behind as per your Koran (hate manual). how will you recompensate your limbs. which most excellent allah will give your hands and legs back.


i know you dont have answers to those questions, do you? how could a rotten human mind which follows the words of criminal, thug, murderer, rapist, can dare to...
Your beliefs become Your thoughts, Your thoughts become Your words, Your words become Your actions, Your actions become Your habits, Your habits become your Destiny


http://www.faithfreedom.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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ygalg
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by ygalg »

afttak wrote: The conquests were necessary for the expansion of Islam,
conquests are just that stealing. stealing by sword.
however, Islamic history doesn’t reflect mass murder of innocent & victimization,

apparently you haven't done your homework. your statements do not align with historical facts.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

yeezevee
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by yeezevee »

Afttak,: The conquests were necessary for the expansion of Islam, however, Islamic history doesn’t reflect mass murder of innocent & victimization, as did by Romans, Greeks, Mongols, Aryans, Hindus/Sikhs, English, Americans… During the era of English colonization, Christianity was also preached forcibly in various part of Africa. Muslim ruled in the Indian continent for upto 900 years and there were rare conflicts & chaos. Muslim & Hindus during that period lived like good fellows with harmony & peace, except some of incidents which are normal. It was only penetration of English colonial powers that seeded the hate & spread who is who differences for their own means.

Faith of Islam did not always show itself in his military campaigns, it certainly did in the cultural landscape which is evident every nook & corner of the world, Spain, Turkey & especially in Indian subcontinent, the Muslim sculpture, monuments are still vital signs of our glory days. Foreign tourists pay tribute to Taj Mahal, [backgroun#fff004]not nasty & stinking Hindus temples, Hindus must thankful to Muslim that tourism is a flourishing trade in India.[/background]
you are hitting hard at Hindus dear Afttak., Do you hate them?? lol... May be you should be come a Hindu to educate Hindus..

http://www.scribd.com/doc/7383463/How-I ... id-Frawley" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dr. Sami Alrabaa wrote a good article for you in the front page..
http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/06/08/ ... anaticism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and this is a good folder to read through
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... 11&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These Anwar Shaikh book ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Shaikh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )is good one to read click links
http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/index. ... e&sid=1091" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yeezevee

afttak
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by afttak »

By Sunshine
Lets discuss about your filthy *sharia* a bit. Suppose your father wants to have sex with his female slave, can you prevent him? it will be against your Koran's directives, isnt it?

suppose you get to know your wife is accused of adultery. you want her to be stoned to death as per hadith (oral diarrhea). but how will you prove it man?? for that you need 4 witness. Have you ever thought how on earth a women can commit adultery in front of four men. only muslim rotten mind can think this way.

Suppose you have been accused of theft. later those GREAT islamic suckers find out that it was a mistake but by this time your hands and legs were cut off from behind as per your Koran (hate manual). how will you recompensate your limbs. which most excellent allah will give your hands and legs back.


i know you dont have answers to those questions, do you? how could a rotten human mind which follows the words of criminal, thug, murderer, rapist, can dare to...
Dear you’ve more than 500 posts in your credit but it seems that you still lack morality and how to behave civilized. Unless a murderer is identified for the crime, we don’t have any right to criticize him. This is not a cheap ‘chat room’ but a place for serious discussion.. Please read your post again and ponder at your written words ( I marked them bold), this shows your mentality & how you’ve been brought-up by your parents and finally your own ‘level’, the post is speaking itself. Is that you call awareness?? Being educated.

If Sharia law is so horrible then why the UKs Archbishop Rowan Williams was interested to introduce the Sharia Law in the UK, saying that it is unavoidable and would aid social cohesion?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2073728344" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Infact various segments of Islamic Sharia (owing to social oriented based ) are being implemented in various parts of the world. (except these, you’ve mentioned). Please remember that Sharia is not a final testimony to judge Islam but later developments of Islamic jurisprudence & justice system, formulated through human interpretation in different time frames, which obviously carries some flaws and need to be rectified with modern times while the holy Quran should be the only source of inspiration. The major part of Islamic Sharia has also been discussed between Ghamidi & Ali Sina, in this website where you can learn more.

By yeezeeve
you are hitting hard at Hindus dear Afttak., Do you hate them?? lol... May be you should be come a Hindu to educate Hindus..
Dear yeezeeve, thanks for your love, chasing approach & ‘inputs’ but is it possible for me to discuss without you with some other gentlemen? :) Because I think we had already enough..No I don’t hate Hindus but I only described the facts, backed by evidence.

http://www.funenclave.com/reality-bites ... 25335.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It gives me pain that Hindus didn’t learn decency instead of our 900 years glorious ruling. But now they are willing to modifying their old religion, the election of a lady parliamentary speaker from the lower cast of Hindu is a proof (or make the world believed) that India is still a secular country. :*) Regarding links (you mentioned) hundred of such base less & self styled articles have been written about prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but remember all bullets are being diverted unknowingly, because more you write hates, the more people will like to know about him and embrace truth. It is a fact that love for Prophet Muhammad will never ever be diminished from Muslim heart. I would like to mention about articles written by Dr. Garry Miller, a former Christian priest (now converted to Islam, Abdul Ahad Omer), it will certainly mark questions in readers minds.

http://www.thetruecall.com/home/modules ... le&sid=215" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the following link, he has also mentioned something amazing about prophet Muhammad.

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:Ai ... clnk&gl=pk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


By ylag
apparently you haven't done your homework. your statements do not align with historical facts.
Dear ylag quoting half of my statement will not help to come out from the discussion. I again repeat my words “
The conquests were necessary for the expansion of Islam, however, Islamic history doesn’t reflect mass murder of innocent & victimization, as did by Romans, Greeks, Mongols, Aryans, Hindus/Sikhs, English, Americans… During the era of English colonization, Christianity was also preached forcibly in various part of Africa. Muslim ruled in the Indian continent for upto 900 years and there were rare conflicts & chaos. Muslim & Hindus during that period lived like good fellows with harmony & peace, except some of incidents which are normal. It was only penetration of English colonial powers that seeded the hate & spread who is who differences for their own means.
Please go and compare the data of mass murder in the world history, before blaming me, Do your homework, your statements do not align with the historical facts. :roll:

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skynightblaze
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by skynightblaze »

@afttak


http://www.faithfreedom.org/the-challenge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Read this and find out the truth about your so called prophet.Pick up a charge and put it in the quran and the hadith folder and try defending it . YOu can take it from me that you wont be able to defend .
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

afttak
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by afttak »

I’ve now eased the work for ylag, here is the compiled data of mass murders of world history, however various historical data like the reign of Mongols, Romans, Zoroastrians are yet to be added, please note that during the time of Muslim rulers high-tech weapons were not available.. The list clearly shows that on the top most Christians / Europeans, Roman Catholic Germans, Japanese were the worst, while I also included Turk Muslim Perpetrators:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time: Location: Perpetrators: Victims: Number of victims
1450 to 1792: Europe, New England, S. America: Christians "Satan worshipers" & other heretics: Perhaps 50,000 to 100,000


Time: Location: Perpetrators: Victims: Number of victims:
1492 to now: Western Hemisphere Western European Christians: Aboriginals: Millions or tens of millions


Time: Location: Perpetrators: Victims: Number of victims:
1770 to now: Australia British invaders: Aboriginal people: 720 thousand


Time: Location: Perpetrators: Victims: Number of victims

1885 to early 1900s: Democratic Republic of the Congo, formerly Belgium Congo and Congo Free State King Leopold II of Belgium and his colonial administration: Congolese population Unknown. Estimates range from 3 million during part of the period, to 30 million.


Time, Location, Perpetrators, Victims, Number of victims


1904 to
1907, Namibia, formerly German South-West Africa, German government, (Christian), Hereros, Animists 35,000 to 105,000


Time, Location, Perpetrators, Victims, Number of victims

1915 to 1922, Turkey Muslim government, Armenian and other Christians, 1.5 million Armenian Christians; unknown number of Greek Christians and Assyrians

Time, Location, Perpetrators, Victims, Number of victims

1928 to 1953, USSR, Communist government, Public, 20 million 24


Time, Location, Perpetrators, Victims, Number of victims

1937, Nanking, China, Japanese army, Chinese public, 320 thousand,

Time Location Perpetrators Victims Number of victims

1940 to 1945, Poland, mainly, German army volunteers, Jews, Roma, etc., On the order of 11 to 15 million 24



Time, Location, Perpetrators, Victims, Number of victims

1941 to 1945, Croatia, Usta�a (Roman-Catholic/Fascist regime) Jews, Roma, Serbian Orthodox Christians, anti-fascist Croats. Unknown; estimates



No who were the land snatchers & mass murderers of the history??

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TheYoungReservist
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by TheYoungReservist »

afttak wrote:
I’ve now eased the work for ylag, here is the compiled data of mass murders of world history, however various historical data like the reign of Mongols, Romans, Zoroastrians are yet to be added, please note that during the time of Muslim rulers high-tech weapons were not available.. The list clearly shows that on the top most Christians / Europeans, Roman Catholic Germans, Japanese were the worst, while I also included Turk Muslim Perpetrators:
So,does this make the Muslim mass murderers look good?They're all mega murderers.

However,the western world has by large evolved and continues to evolve,one prime example of this is globalization,while the Islamic world is still in many ways stuck at the point where it started at.
"Better to be disliked than pitied."

"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions."

Abba Eban

afttak
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by afttak »

By The YoungReservist
However,the western world has by large evolved and continues to evolve,one prime example of this is globalization,while the Islamic world is still in many ways stuck at the point where it started at.
Globalization, continues to evolve…..precisely dear! i.e. why the west have pioneered in all aspect of our lives, be it mass murders, cultivation of synthetic viruses in laboratories, legitimized war, IMF funding / lending, economic collapse (Rothschild conspiracy), worldwide fuel & territory control drama, artificial famine, invention of gadgets, high-tech communication devices (which have drastically altered human social life at the worst environmental cost) while ‘poor’ Muslims are faaaaaaaaar away, lagging behind in all the drama. Thanks to their ‘stuck’ behavior, they are not among the perpetrators, Muslim played well their role during Othman Empire, now the charge is in the hands of Freemasons carrying a beautiful slogan of globalization / awareness. Take an insight from 1900 to date, the suffering of human being & Earth will evident, every next day is worsening, extracting more juice from the lives of human & earth. Indeed the juice extracting speed is unimaginable…. :???:

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KhaliL
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by KhaliL »

afttak wrote:By The YoungReservist
However,the western world has by large evolved and continues to evolve,one prime example of this is globalization,while the Islamic world is still in many ways stuck at the point where it started at.
Globalization, continues to evolve…..precisely dear! i.e. why the west have pioneered in all aspect of our lives, be it mass murders, cultivation of synthetic viruses in laboratories, legitimized war, IMF funding / lending, economic collapse (Rothschild conspiracy), worldwide fuel & territory control drama, artificial famine, invention of gadgets, high-tech communication devices (which have drastically altered human social life at the worst environmental cost) while ‘poor’ Muslims are faaaaaaaaar away, lagging behind in all the drama. Thanks to their ‘stuck’ behavior, they are not among the perpetrators, Muslim played well their role during Othman Empire, now the charge is in the hands of Freemasons carrying a beautiful slogan of globalization / awareness. Take an insight from 1900 to date, the suffering of human being & Earth will evident, every next day is worsening, extracting more juice from the lives of human & earth. Indeed the juice extracting speed is unimaginable…. :???:
Hello aftak,

Sorry for the intrusion, but can you turn the above "emotional talk" into something coherent so that we can understand what you are about? I read it twice but still fail to discern anything. May be my poor comprehension, but I think I am not that bad in this department.

If you may please.., and one word: getting emotional is not the hallmark of objectivity. You may please keep this in mind.

Regards
KF

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TheYoungReservist
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by TheYoungReservist »

afttak wrote:
Globalization, continues to evolve…..precisely dear! i.e. why the west have pioneered in all aspect of our lives, be it mass murders, cultivation of synthetic viruses in laboratories, legitimized war, IMF funding / lending, economic collapse (Rothschild conspiracy), worldwide fuel & territory control drama, artificial famine, invention of gadgets, high-tech communication devices (which have drastically altered human social life at the worst environmental cost) while ‘poor’ Muslims are faaaaaaaaar away, lagging behind in all the drama. Thanks to their ‘stuck’ behavior, they are not among the perpetrators, Muslim played well their role during Othman Empire, now the charge is in the hands of Freemasons carrying a beautiful slogan of globalization / awareness. Take an insight from 1900 to date, the suffering of human being & Earth will evident, every next day is worsening, extracting more juice from the lives of human & earth. Indeed the juice extracting speed is unimaginable….
Well you know,I'd much rather take a world of progress,enlightenment and freedom of the individual with all of its problems,rather than a world dominated by a totalitarian backwards ideology which suppresses all these things,a world where individuals have their rights severely restricted and women in particular have close to zero rights:Communism,Nazism,Islam all of these things share the same ideological roots.

So if you want to live in that dark world be my guest,it's your choice how to live your life but don't try to impose it on me.

Also your claim that the Muslims are not among the perpetrators,last I heard Muslims are happy to embrace all the aspects of progress and technology which enable them to kill other human beings in order to achieve their vision of the world,be it AK-47s,explosives or nukes,also about 8 years ago Muslims used planes to kill over 3000 people,so sorry I'm not buying it.
"Better to be disliked than pitied."

"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions."

Abba Eban

yeezevee
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by yeezevee »

As usual Afttak adds up LOTS of different issues in one post.
yeezeeve: you are hitting hard at Hindus dear Afttak., Do you hate them?? lol... May be you should be come a Hindu to educate Hindus..
Afttak says Dear yeezeeve, thanks for your love, chasing approach & ‘inputs’ but is it possible for me to discuss without you with some other gentlemen? :) Because I think we had already enough..No I don’t hate Hindus but I only described the facts, backed by evidence.
Off course I love the life and you are life dear Afttak., It is so wonderful to inquire in to the process of life on why is it there and what it is doing. I am glad you don't hate Hindus., they will be happy., But you do you hate Hinduism?? I see you give a link you say it describe the Facts about Hinduism or Hindus. I am not very certain it describes it, But it is an interesting and VERY IMPORTANT LINK that I hope Hindus will discuss and I will add my two cents on it.
It gives me pain that Hindus didn’t learn decency instead of our 900 years glorious ruling. But now they are willing to modifying their old religion, the election of a lady parliamentary speaker from the lower cast of Hindu is a proof (or make the world believed) that India is still a secular country. :*)
This is actually 2nd time I am looking at that link of Hindus from you dear Afttak viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107&p=41104#p41104" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As far as the mentioning of stinking Hindu Temples, it is no doubt is one of undeniable reality of this world. Just visit any of Hindu temples in India,
Spoiler! :
there you’ll find unbearable smell. The Hindu Sadhu, smells so badly that you cannot stand too long with them. Many of Hindu Pundit do no have bath for various days! Some of the temples cows urine are consumed. While some of the temples are infestated with rodents, monkeys where Panduts share with them food! Visit at the Hindu morgue (Shamshaan Gath) specially at Kaasi (the holiest place of the Hindus). This is one of the vomit citing place in entire world where Hindu burned their dead ones, the half burned bodies float in the river. This place is fiesta for crows & other carnivores birds and believe me the Hindu pilgrims (who visit this place) have to take a DIP in these ‘holy waters’.

http://www.funenclave.com/reality-bites" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 25335.html

Note: Not for light hearted people, CARE!!

So I would again repeat that it is only Muslim historical monuments like Taj Mahal or the Hindus prostitution / massage places at green high areas that foreigners infest in India, otherwise one would vomit. :sly:
and that link along with other problems of Hindus + Hinduism clearly need to be discussed and MUST BE discussed dear Afttak. No one is Unquestionable dear Afttak and I tell you, Hindus and Hinduism can not escape from yeezevee. I have done that before IN THIS FORUM itself., it is just a time problem
Spoiler! :
Regarding links (you mentioned) hundred of such base less & self styled articles have been written about prophet Muhammad (PBUH) but remember all bullets are being diverted unknowingly, because more you write hates, the more people will like to know about him and embrace truth. It is a fact that love for Prophet Muhammad will never ever be diminished from Muslim heart.
I would like to mention about articles written by Dr. Garry Miller, a former Christian priest (now converted to Islam, Abdul Ahad Omer), it will certainly mark questions in readers minds.
I have no hesitation to read Garry Miller and I have read it + discussed it dear afttak., I can repeat that for you again. It is just time problem form., but I will get in to it in time..

with best regards
yeezevee

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ygalg
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by ygalg »

afttak wrote: By ylag
ygalg, not ylag.

Dear ylag quoting half of my statement will not help to come out from the discussion. I again repeat my words
I did not have to quote whole of it. as what I quoted from you, was relevant to address. what other nations did deviated from the topic of this thread. this topic about the merits of Islam to the world according to Obama.

look what you have wrote:
The conquests were necessary for the expansion of Islam,
'necessary' is everyones excuse. conquest is the acquiring of property by other means than by inheritance. in other words stealing, grabbing, robbing, plundering...etc

you continued:
however, Islamic history doesn’t reflect mass murder of innocent & victimization,
there is no other mass murder aside taking lives of the innocent. do you know what murder stand for? you could have said, there were no mas murder in islamic history. that will be of course a lie.
Please go and compare the data of mass murder in the world history, before blaming me, Do your homework, your statements do not align with the historical facts. :roll:
lets see if you're correct.
Violence Against Jews

At various times, Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.

When Jews were perceived as having achieved too comfortable a position in Islamic society, anti-Semitism would surface, often with devastating results: On December 30, 1066, Joseph HaNagid, the Jewish vizier of Granada, Spain, was crucified by an Arab mob that proceeded to raze the Jewish quarter of the city and slaughter its 5,000 inhabitants. The riot was incited by Muslim preachers who had angrily objected to what they saw as inordinate Jewish political power.

Similarly, in 1465, Arab mobs in Fez slaughtered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, after a Jewish deputy vizier treated a Muslim woman in
"an offensive manner."
The killings touched off a wave of similar massacres throughout Morocco.

Other mass murders of Jews in Arab lands occurred in Morocco in the 8th century, where whole communities were wiped out by Muslim ruler Idris I; North Africa in the 12th century, where the Almohads either forcibly converted or decimated several communities; Libya in 1785, where Ali Burzi Pasha murdered hundreds of Jews; Algiers, where Jews were massacred in 1805, 1815 and 1830 and Marrakesh, Morocco, where more than 300 hundred Jews were murdered between 1864 and 1880.

Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt and Syria (1014, 1293-4, 1301-2), Iraq (854-859, 1344) and Yemen (1676). Despite the Koran's prohibition, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death in Yemen (1165 and 1678), Morocco (1275, 1465 and 1790-92) and Baghdad (1333 and 1344).

The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... (gen).html
islamic history doesn't reflect mass murder of innocent & victimization you say.
apparently you're misinformed.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

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ygalg
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by ygalg »

sum was waiting for a honest answer, from islamists about their stand over
'by right of conquest'. whatever they're in favor or against. judging afttak replies. he is in favor.
“a true believer as a person so fanatically committed to a cause that no amount of reality can make him abandon it” Eric Hoffer

fcce
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by fcce »

As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam - at places like al-Azhar University - that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's Renaissance and Enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass and tools of navigation; our mastery of pens and printing; our understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires; timeless poetry and cherished music; elegant calligraphy and places of peaceful contemplation. And throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.
I am ashamed that that US could elect a president that did so poorly in history or is the US education so poor that it teaches its student all the wrong fact

1. "It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra; our magnetic compass" , magnetic compass invented by Muslim ? http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinv ... ompass.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2.
our mastery of pens and printing
Muslim invented printing? http://www.fieldsbooks.com/cgi-bin/fields/11191.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3.
understanding of how disease spreads and how it can be healed
Obama must believe in this as it is said that the prophet himself says it

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." (Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537)
I just wonder how US could vote in a person that can't even get the basic fact right and you trust him with complex decision that requires getting the facts right for making the right decisions ?

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Maersk
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Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by Maersk »

Mr Obama's education from madrasah came in handy, very handy. Indonesian Muslim - Malay are mighty proud of him. - BamBam, the Indonesian President, should send him a congratulatory message for his speech.

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The Infamous
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:19 am

Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by The Infamous »

Cassie wrote:
The Infamous wrote:You're a most excellent idiot. It's always difficult to read through your posts and find posts which are pertinent and which I can reply to. I'm talking about President McKinley's waging the Spanish-American wars resulting in the deaths of thousands of Filipino's. What part of that don't you understand? I'm not talking about World War 2 and the Japanese in this incident, and I sure as hell ain't talking about General MacArthur. Don't change the subject. Don't rant on some stupid BS that I keep hearing from you day in and day out.
You don't make it clear what you're talking about, do you? How do I know if you don't give specifics?

You think you’re the only one who can conquer? Philippines belonged to the Spanish – which was ceded to the Americans following the Spanish-American War of 1898. It belonged to the Americans. Legally. A country is legally permitted to deal with its internal insurrections.
The Infamous wrote:"Your Prophet was a murderer, he stole and he raped" << Blah Blah, do you actually call this an argument? Grow up. You said that America has the right to go into Vietnam, Iraq, Cambodia, Laos, Grenada, Panama and the Philippines and do as they wish, but yet you criticize the Prophet for killing his enemies. You're a filthy hypocrite. The Prophet had the right to do as he wished, he had the right to kill his enemies because he deemed them as a threat to the Muslim State. You judge the Kafirs by one criterion but then judge the Muslims by another criterion. Shut the **** up Cassandra because you know you sound like a broken record.
He had no right to behead PoWs. He had no right to turn traitor against the Meccans. He was a Meccan and therefore what he did was treason. He had no right to raid their caravans. He had no right to enslave women and children. He was a criminal. And you know it.

He was supposed to be a prophet - but at the end of the day, he was nothing more than a bloodthirsty thug. That's why Muslims are the most thuggish people in the world.

What sort of state commits genocide, ethnic-cleansing, banditry, pedophilia, rape, enslavement of women and chilren? The Muslim state, of course. LoL.
The Infamous wrote:And as for the other Kafirs in this forum, don't try and 're-translate' the Hadith where it said that the warriors were killed. It's clear that the Prophet spared the boys and killed their men. And every man is a soldier. Even the old men.
I think Aksel already proved you were wrong in this regard. The ‘warriors’ were only ‘men’. The Jews of Medina never attacked anyone. Their history was peaceful during Muhammad’s day. If you read the history without bias you would see they went out of their way to avoid violence. It was YOU Muslims who attacked them. They never once attacked you.
I did make it clear what I was talking about. I see you running away and trying to change the subject yet again. When I mentioned the US going into the Philippines in the early 20th century I was CLEARLY talking about McKinley's waging of the Spanish-American wars. Since when does America LEGALLY have the right to go and occupy the Philippines? Are you a hypocrite?

1. Spain colonizes the Philippines.
2. America goes to war with Spain and colonizes the islands
3. Filipino's get pissed off and try to launch an insurgency, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Filipino's.
4. Cassie says it's okay that this happened.

Since it's okay for countries to go into other countries and colonize them, then is it not okay for Muslim nations to conquer their neighboring countries? Logic states that if you're going to condemn your enemy for committing certain actions, then you should abstain from committing or endorsing the same actions which you deem immoral! It only makes sense.

So therefore what you wrote here:
He had no right to behead PoWs. He had no right to turn traitor against the Meccans. He was a Meccan and therefore what he did was treason. He had no right to raid their caravans. He had no right to enslave women and children. He was a criminal. And you know it.


This holds no water and has no credibility since you lack consistency. According to your logic the Americans of 1776 were also treasonous, and so were the Free French in WW2, the enemies of Josef Stalin, the Italians who executed Mussolini, the French who overthrew King Louis the 16th, etc etc. Clearly you are a fool Cassandra.

And as for the Jews of Medina. I do believe that I provided ample proof that the Jews were the aggressors, back in the Old Forum. And I also provided TONS and TONS of proof. But you choose again to ignore it. Idiot :lol:
Nobody can give you freedom, no one can give you equality or justice or anything, if you're a man you take it.

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Maersk
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Location: Mecca

Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by Maersk »

What a famous idiot Islam have! When Muslims declare they have their rights to violence and conquest then it is no big secret Islam is a violent religion. Muslims should patent the word 'idiot' for themselves. They could be famous.

afttak
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 9:58 am

Re: Assessing Obama's Cairo Speech

Post by afttak »

by KhaliL FarieL
If you may please.., and one word: getting emotional is not the hallmark of objectivity. You may please keep this in mind.
No, no dear I’m not emotional (in that specific post), rather it’s a flow/style of my writing, but might be from your perspective it is ‘emotional, anyway, there is no ambiguity in my post, what I want to project is at a glance comparison between Muslim dynasty (which was near collapse in the beginning of 19th century & the arrival of social Darwinism / continuation of materialistic / new age of democracy, which had promised prosperity & peace for human being but what happened & happing (as I indicated earlier) to our planet & planetary ‘species’ is evident to all, we’re all paying the cost of progress in a so rapid way that only the fittest can survive. This is an un-ending war, carrying worst kind of chaos & restlessness and the end is more horrible.There’s an imbalance of power in the world – too much power residing with too few people.

By The YoungReservist
Well you know,I'd much rather take a world of progress,enlightenment and freedom of the individual with all of its problems,rather than a world dominated by a totalitarian backwards ideology which suppresses all these things,a world where individuals have their rights severely restricted and women in particular have close to zero rights:Communism,Nazism,Islam all of these things share the same ideological roots.
Off-course every person in this planet do appreciate progress, enlightenment and freedom of the individual and believe me I’m also not that kind of stubborn people BUT as you can see (as what I’ve mentioned in my upper lines) that everything has its cost & wear & tear, every glad tidings of modern times is enveloped with sorrows & negativities, life is going on & people are happy. No, you cannot simply call Islamic reign as a total backwards ideology & individual suppresser, it did project golden renaissance of art & culture, otherwise it wouldn’t have been survived. Before this so-called progressed age, there were beautiful civilization with harmony & norms, but it requires eyes to see…
Also your claim that the Muslims are not among the perpetrators,last I heard Muslims are happy to embrace all the aspects of progress and technology which enable them to kill other human beings in order to achieve their vision of the world,be it AK-47s,explosives or nukes,also about 8 years ago Muslims used planes to kill over 3000 people,so sorry I'm not buying it.
I’ve already proofed that notion of perpetrators with facts & figures (but you didn’t bother to mention them). Muslim & Jews shares identical ideologies (except philosophy of Zionism which is later adopted and quite deviated, and is also condemned by various Jew thinkers), what you would say about systemic mass massacre of Jews (about 6 million) in Auschwitz by Nazis, during second WW?? Are Muslim worst than them?, believe me when I was watching Schindler’s List & Grey Zone, it brought my eyes tears, because as a human being we share same feelings & heart. But I don’t know why you people are devastating Palestinians for the crimes done by Nazis?? You’ve occupied their lands and still want that they shouldn’t pick up stones or simply AK47s for their resistance?? During the mass bombardment your allies targeted schools, UNO offices, where women & children were taking shelters, but no mercy!!, as if you were taking the revenge of Auschwitz… Yes you rightly said Communism,Nazism,Islam but you’ve to include Zionism too, owing to the mass massacre Jews did at Sabra Shateela camp.

By ygalg
ygalg, not ylag.
Your approach looks as if we are debating for winning or loosing, if this is the case, then congratulation, I give up, you are the winner. :)

Dear we belong to different backgrounds & understanding, have limitations in various senses, if we keep the purpose of learning we’ll get something, otherwise obstinacy will not help to come out.
Violence Against Jews - At various times, Jews in Muslim lands were able to live in relative peace and thrive culturally and economically. The position of the Jews was never secure, however, and changes in the political or social climate would often lead to persecution, violence and death. Jews were generally viewed with contempt by their Muslim neighbors; peaceful coexistence between the two groups involved the subordination and degradation of the Jews.
I’ll take your words, before the exploring expeditions by English, there were peace, among many parts of the world which was abundant with rich beautiful culture, but what had happened after that?? Suppression, systematic colonization, mass murder, so this is the world my friend, the evolving world, if there was no emergence of Islam, we wouldn’t be able to sit here.

However, I totally disagree that Muslims were involved in mass murder & plundering (even in their glorious days), I’ve already made my points with proofs, & will like to repeat it. Now it is up to you, whether you accept it or not. The figures you mentioned are in thousands, while what Nazis did with Jews?? More than 6 million…compare it. Muslim & Jews still shares identical ideologies in culture & society. During the early Muslim dynasty, Jew traders left their women & daughters at Muslim’s house, when they were about to go abroad trade tour, this was nothing but trust!

I do not say that Muslims were among the angels, they also made mistakes, infact various rulers were ruthless & wicked, as they had deviated from the real teachings of Islam, but in no case, as a whole they should be called as the worst perpetrators of the history. It also depends on the historians & or we can say at present day, the media, i.e. how they convince masses, how they manage to twist to achieve their target.

'necessary' is everyones excuse. conquest is the acquiring of property by other means than by inheritance. in other words stealing, grabbing, robbing, plundering...etc
Let me clear this ‘necessary’ phenomena (which is hardly hitting you people). My statement which was “The conquests were necessary for the expansion of Islam” should be taken as a plain logical reply. I’m not that kind of Muslim theist to invent many suitable excuses to justify my answer. It is simple, when you’ve power, you want to project it! Be in form of sword or preaching. How Christianity had prevailed in the world?? Certainly credit goes to expeditions, colonization, otherwise it would have been buried with Jesus. The same notion applies for all ideologies/beliefs/systems.

I realized that hate towards Islam has now accelerated, especially after event of 9/11, but one must try to find the root causes of the event, why this event had occurred?? Press the reverse button, try to fetch the causing event, because this is the world prone to cause & effect.

Peace to all friends.

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