I appreciate your cordiality mate. It is a rarity among Muslims of this time but you stay exceptional. Thank you but I have this protest. You are dishonest in quoting me out of context and committing the fallacy of attacking strawman. This is intellectual dishonesty. I am sorry for starting with this accusation but you asked for it.
After reading your response, I understood you are trying to evade from difficult topics. Truth hurts but you have to learn to live with it. Next time, when you quote me quote me in context and do not attack strawman. Please;
Lincoln wrote:KhaliL FarieL wrote:Oh too subjective a claim dear Lincoln.., there are objective and subjective truths and the latter can be almost defined as “truth is in the eyes of the beholder” but it is not what we are going to accept.
Its neither subjective nor objective. It lies in between these two extremes as I was talking about the possibility of him getting changed. And obviously we can talk a lot about the possibility but in the end we might get stuck again the middle of that two extremes.
Fallacy # 1 there was more in my argument but you conveniently skirted it. The part you omitted is coming later in your post but without that my above statement is incomplete. You can not single this particular statement out to attack straw man.
Still let me say, we are not stuck in the middle of two extremes in the case of Islam for the very reason the object we are focussing is immotile. How can you evolve from a basic that is rooted in a certain backdrop of history? As long as you don’t give me a satisfactory answer, I will keep asking.
Lincoln wrote:KhaliL FarieL wrote:There is a universal consensus on some truths and Islam being an evil cult is one or prime of them.
There is no universal consensus about Islam. At most you can say that there are two types of opinions about Islam: one that does not hate Islam, another that does hate Islam. You my friend fall into the second category.
I have a certain lot in my mind when I am talking about universal consensus. Majority is not in favour of Islam, but against it as the true colour of Islam is being manifested for all on a momentary basis. So for my public, Islam is a deadly cult.
It is not a secret that I hate Islam. I never concealed my abhorrence to this deadly cult. But that does not mean I hate Muslims. I hate the Islam which produces Bin Ladens and Talibans.
Lincoln wrote: If a group of 1400 million living human beings can be called a cult according to standard English definition, I don’t have any objection with that because then I would see out green planet Earth is full of so many small and big cults that its really wonderful. Islam is indeed a large cult! ! What do you say?. If you use cult in a derogatory sense , you will find yourself in a downtrodden cult that loves to preach hate rather than love and reconciliation. .
Sorry, this is argumentum ad populum. You can not appeal to the number of adherents of Islam and prove it is not a cult. This is an abject tactic usually Muslims employ but that does not work here well. I would not stop asserting cannibalism is appalling though I have one on the end argues for it with an excuse of an entire tribe practicing it. The number does not count, but the practice does.
Lincoln wrote: What Miraculous points , you are trying to refer my erudite friend! In your Islamic days , You might have thought of some miracle but for me thing is a little different. Islam itself is the truth as it propagates the Unity of God, and being unadulterated during these 1400 years is the Miracle. .
This is laughable for many reasons. There are many ideologies existent in today’s world that are much older than your Islam. And your claim Islam remains unadulterated is funny indeed. How many sects were emerged within your Ummah soon after the death of your prophet Muhammad? Have you tried to count the existing variant sects of Islam? Do all these tell you of a miraculously untainted Islam that survived for centuries?
No my friend, change is inevitable and your Islam has been no exception to this. We witness to it in this board because you can have the other Muslim member disagreeing with you on matters of interpretation of Quran or your recognition of the authenticity of hadiths.
Lincoln wrote: The Unalterable Quran gives you supreme chance to excel in the fields of science and technology simply because of the fact that you wont have to worry about your religion and you need not edit it now and then and get spiritually vacuumed. .
Do you mean a joke or? Dude, the unalterable Quran is the prime undoing of Islam and you are taking pride in it because it tells you of speaking ants and hoopoes? Or is it because it curtails your thought process from the very first stating “there is no doubt in it?”
Lincoln wrote: Your response as I assume would be about current miseries of Muslim, and the reason behind Muslims current condition is the imperialism from a section of earth.
NO. I am not pointing my fingers to the pathetic state of some Muslim nations on earth. But when you talk about imperialism and cry on its shoulders for the penurious state of Muslims, I have to laugh a little because once in history, Islam was world’s biggest imperial power. Can you deny it?
Blaming Joos or great Satan for your miseries is pathetic to the most my dear friend. If you mean an imperial power or powers are causing all mishaps among the best people evolved for mankind as Quran stated, we have to doubt on the superiority of this best belief system. You attest to its weakness when you say you are helpless against a nation or nations or against some people or groups. Why should you dance to the tune of Taghoot?
Lincoln wrote: But you would love to remind you one verse of the Quran where Allah says that HE IS NEVER UNJUST TO ANYONE.
Hey…hey… what goes on…? You holler Allah is never unjust to anyone. But your Quran refutes it. We see a sadist all through Quran who creates some human beings and seals their hearts so that they can not believe. Then in utter psychosis, your god roars he will roast these unfortunate guys in his hell.
And you will still call him just?
Lincoln wrote: Therefore, if Muslims work for the development of their society , they will get developed . If they don’t strive, they wont get developed.
1400 years of failed history does not attest to the above statement. Honey… if the best of Muslims (as attested by your prophet) failed in making of a perfect society, if 14 centuries failed to produce one, you can not blame me for being extremely sceptical.
Lincoln wrote: What hidden treasures are you talking about Khalil!! There is no hidden treasure and we don’t look for any hidden treasures as well. When you talk with this tone , my friend you do confuse a lot of readers and the most who get confused are those who knows nothing about Islam and trust your erudite style of speech!
This is argumentum ad hominem. No special consideration per se.
Lincoln wrote:KhaliL FarieL wrote:What the hell is this authentic source?
The hell of authentic source is guys who pretend to know a lot of Islam and make people confused!
And the heaven of authentic source! The real authentic source here means asking a proven scholar of Islam about the rulings of Islam according to the holy Quran and sunnah. For example, people should ask the scholars of :- http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... waCounselE
Who are Muslims and bear responsibility hold the authority.
You have sense of humour too…
I would like to know of your opinion about this gem that this most authentic online source produced:
It is reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “If a woman wears a perfume and then passes by people who smelled her perfume, she is then considered an adulteress. From the above hadiths, describing such a woman as an adulteress means that she is like an adulteress because she wears perfume with the intention of tempting men, which is undoubtedly an abominable behaviour.
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Sate ... TheScholar
Go on and start doubting it too…. Or concord to the above foolishness;
Lincoln wrote: Rather than asking http://www.faithfreedom.org where instead of credible answers , we find people getting incredible lies with the misinterpretation!! And as a result, you guys can easily make people buffoon though I understand one fact that some people here are really touched and have tremendous problem and I feel the origin of their psychological unhappiness is their dissatisfaction with faith and their inability to find serenity in it and inability to find proper explanation of their instinctive ambiguous questions about faith.
Don’t worry about FFI. This site is not for promoting Islam rather our aim is to destroy it. But the sources we use are authentic sources of Islam. Much authentic than the above said online source or sources because; we extract information from Quran, Hadith and the traditional scholars authentic works. IF we do otherwise, you may point them. If presenting opinions of your authentic scholars of past (not current apologist Muslims) means distortion of facts for you, sorry we can’t help and you may continue whining about it.
What makes you insist we should accept the current Muslim apologetics than the much authentic opinions of scholars of past who lived with Muhammad or were close to the era of Muhammad?
Lincoln wrote: I strongly believe that you are definitely learned enough to find out the differences between " paving the way of modern civilization" and "building the modern civilization". No more comments..
Still it is a joke. Islam did not pave the way any civilization. A system which demands chopping off hands of thieves, killing apostates, stoning adulterers can not pave any way to civilization. It can only pay to halt progress; not contribute for it.
Lincoln wrote: Thanks dude. I am perfectly fine with this world and with my thinking as well. You cant say that you are more happy than me because you don’t believe in the after-life.
I did not claim I am happier than thou art, but I don’t submit myself to the fear psychosis. Remember “what you have to fear is fear itself” not a hell which does not have a real existence. It is a crazy imagination of people of past;
Lincoln wrote: But frankly speaking , believing in the after-life has made my life in this world more enjoyable and more significant and I value this life really a lot because of my Islamic teachings and you know, for that I cant destroy my life like a person who doesn’t believe in after life.
LOL… the fundamental problem with Islam is it does not value human life. It gives no importance to the one and only life human beings have. Instead of focusing on this life, it lures you to an imaginary brothel where large bosomed virgins plus pearly boys are waiting to serve your needs. Stop preaching mate, it is nauseating.
Lincoln wrote: The logic can come from the opposite way too. As you don’t believe in these, I would urge you to meditate about your life though I know it going to be real tough for you because spiritually you are dying. This comment is not for offending you but a sympathetic comment!! Awake!! Buddy
Oh… thanks I am wide awake and for more alertness, I have Ritalin in my medicine cabinet. What goddamn spirituality are you talking about man? Do you see a lot of spirituality in relinquishing a life that is precious for the sake of some transparent skinned virgins?
Lincoln wrote:KhaliL FarieL wrote:You are absolutely clueless of the real Islam, let alone history in general still you will urge another to learn something in which you do not possess any riches at all…,
Well, thanks for insulting! I am clueless about my religion which I practice and you are full of clues of my religion! Sounds great, isn’t it!! …
It was not meant to affront you. And to answer the above, you forgot I was one among you once. I was there mate, footed pretty on the same platform where you are now.
Lincoln wrote: The logic of general understanding will go against your perception and that might have a conclusion for you that is "Pseudo scholar"… But one thing for sure, I do feel for your fall and for your catastrophic degeneration.
Oh… thanks for crying for me. Cry me a river but what catastrophic degeneration are you talking about? By all means I can prove those whom you Muslims consider hell-bound are way on top of humanity in all aspects than you god’s selected or appointed people. At least we have our senses intact not to blow up ourselves to kill innocents.
Screw up your Islamic prejudice. You guys are caught in a delusional superiority complex. When are you going to learn?
Lincoln wrote: I am fully aware of your thinking that you might say that I know nothing of my religion, and my friend, it’s the joke of the age to say that I don’t know my religion!. .
No, it is not a joke. I know your religion much better than you do. Remember this is not the first time we engage in this forum and I found you clueless on your sources whenever I quoted them.
Lincoln wrote: The difference between you and me is that "you are fallen and couldn’t resist the onslaught of negativism and lost the power to perceive the wonderfully beautiful aspects of Islam, so nothing left to you " …and… "I haven’t lost my sight"… .
Where is Ahmed Bahgat’s “You are dismissed…? I need it here.
Lincoln wrote: This earthly life is our first and last earthly life, lets use it for the development of humanity both spiritually and materially .…
You make sense at last. So when are you going to publish your testimony?
Lincoln wrote: Thanks a lot for your time. You will remain a good friend of mine.
Ditto Akhee ditto…
When you answer to this post, try to do without logical fallacies. And please, do not preach. It makes you very much unappealing. I do care my friends and I don’t like you dropped in such a pathetic state.
Take care my friend, take very good care,