Has Allah retired his Angels?

Prove Islam is from God, why it is the 'One True Religion'.
sum
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Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by sum »

If a wife denies her husband ex she will be cursed by Angels all night. How will the wife know that she is being cursed? Will she hear or see the Angels?

Angels are claimed by the Koran to help muslims in battle - Koran 8:12.

Are Angels still performing these tasks? I ask because there is no mention of this happening.

Perhaps these Islamic Angels only appeared and existed in the times of myth, legend and superstition and as society evolved these Angels seem to have disappeared. Did any muslims actually see Angels strike necks in battle? Where did their swords come from and go to?

Have they retired?

sum

Gabriel
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Gabriel »

No, speaking for myself, I have gone on strike. I got all the dud jobs, goodness sake.

First I get sent to some hill billies new the dead sea to warn them that their towns will get destroyed, and would you believe it, some of them wanted to get frisky with me... And I am not even gay.

Then I have to play matchmaker with some woman called Mary, embarrassing....

and then I get sent to some idiot in a cave to get him to read something, but he was too stupid to read. So I let him go. And you know what? I get told off for that and I have to go back to him teaching him the text. That did not work either, he got all confused, and sometimes he added bits from his own imagination. That guy really was the pits. But his followers were even worse... if someone tells you he needs to have sex with some kid because God said so, seriously, you would believe him?

I told HIM (you know, my boss) he can stick his job after that. I have mainly been relaxing in sunny places since, but every now and then some loony comes along and says I told him this that or the other.... None of that is true, but I have been "investigated" many times since, and I am on the suspect list I think....

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Takeiteasynow
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Takeiteasynow »

Angels are claimed by the Koran to help muslims in battle - Koran 8:12.

Are Angels still performing these tasks? I ask because there is no mention of this happening.
Indeed, they seem to have retired and been replaced by the U.S. Air Force or even better, the US Navy Blue Angels!

Image

Thunderbirds are go!
Abraham= H'ammu'rab(b)i, Historical Muhammad=Benjamin of Tiberias. Theological: Mahmud from Najran Islam: Syncretic Israelite Yahwishm Deity: nameless, epithets Dsr, El Qutbay, ʼAlâhâ, Allāh. Ka'ba: Kutha => Samaria => Petra=> Makkah. Hijrah 622: Petra => Kerak

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SAM
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by SAM »

sum wrote:If a wife denies her husband ex she will be cursed by Angels all night. How will the wife know that she is being cursed? Will she hear or see the Angels?

Angels are claimed by the Koran to help muslims in battle - Koran 8:12.

Are Angels still performing these tasks? I ask because there is no mention of this happening.

Perhaps these Islamic Angels only appeared and existed in the times of myth, legend and superstition and as society evolved these Angels seem to have disappeared. Did any muslims actually see Angels strike necks in battle? Where did their swords come from and go to?

Have they retired?

sum
In the O.T (Isaiah 37:36), Yahweh needed only one angel to kill 185,000 Assyrian troops, while in Islam (Quran 3: 125) Allah needed 5000 angels to help 313 Muslims fight against 1000 Quraishites but only 70 people were killed.

This means God of Israel has a stronger and powerful Angels than the Islamic Angels sent by Allah.

When Islamic soldiers attacked Jews in Khaybar, why did Yahweh not send His powerful Angels to help them? :swordfight:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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BaigZaheer
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by BaigZaheer »

SAM wrote:In the O.T (Isaiah 37:36), Yahweh needed only one angel to kill 185,000 Assyrian troops, while in Islam (Quran 3: 125) Allah needed 5000 angels to help 313 Muslims fight against 1000 Quraishites but only 70 people were killed.

This means God of Israel has a stronger and powerful Angels than the Islamic Angels sent by Allah.

When Islamic soldiers attacked Jews in Khaybar, why did Yahweh not send His powerful Angels to help them? :swordfight:
Good one, SAM! Have a good day. It is early morning here.

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manfred
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by manfred »

Zaheer, Sam's timezone matches Perth, Australia.

Also. do you believe in angels actually fighting battles? Isaiah INTERPRETED a seemingly miraculous escape from certain defeat as divine intervention and the "angel" was the "agent". I posted a thread once on the history of "angels" and the way they changed through history, if case that interest you.

The thing about angels in Islam is, as pretty much all we know about Mohammed is not 7th century, but 9th century, and then only from oral tradition which tend to get embroidered over time it is difficult to work out fact from fiction. The various "angels" fighting with the Muslims will most likely be later elaborations of older stories.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Hombre
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Hombre »

sum wrote:If a wife denies her husband ex she will be cursed by Angels all night. How will the wife know that she is being cursed? Will she hear or see the Angels?

Angels are claimed by the Koran to help muslims in battle - Koran 8:12.

Are Angels still performing these tasks? I ask because there is no mention of this happening.

Perhaps these Islamic Angels only appeared and existed in the times of myth, legend and superstition and as society evolved these Angels seem to have disappeared. Did any muslims actually see Angels strike necks in battle? Where did their swords come from and go to?

Have they retired?

sum
No they have not retired - rather they are too busy with having 72 virgins & nightly orgies.

sum
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by sum »

When were Angels last recorded fighting in battle to support muslims?

I think that all Angels "disappeared" after Muhammad died. I am sure that this was because of the dispute between those who supported Au Bakr and those who supported Ali. This confused the Angels and as Allah had also died(he was only Muhammad`s alt ego) there was no-one to guide the Angels. The Angels are still sitting on the side lines as the Sunnis and Shia are fighting and they do not know who to support. Perhaps the Angels support ISIS. Who knows?

I think that Muhammad`s Angels served him well in his lust for power, wealth and women but I claim that they are no more. The myth might remain but the Angels do not.

sum

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Fernando
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Fernando »

sum wrote: The myth might remain but the Angels do not.

sum
They've gone - there are just too many dogs and pictures around. Perhaps Walt Disney was the last straw.
Image
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Hombre
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Hombre »

SAM wrote:In the O.T (Isaiah 37:36), Yahweh needed only one angel to kill 185,000 Assyrian troops, while in Islam (Quran 3: 125) Allah needed 5000 angels to help 313 Muslims fight against 1000 Quraishites but only 70 people were killed.

This means God of Israel has a stronger and powerful Angels than the Islamic Angels sent by Allah.

When Islamic soldiers attacked Jews in Khaybar, why did Yahweh not send His powerful Angels to help them? :swordfight:
WTF. Where do you get these bizarre references. post the link to the original HB and let me see the source of your hallucination.

Maybe we need to ask - why is it Muslims have been losing ground to the west for past 150 years. hile Jews & Christians are getting stronger - Muslims are geting weaker & weaker. More Muslim die at the hand of another Muslim then any other non-Muslims.

:horseride: I see you are still riding. haw far are you from Istanbul or it is Istanboolbool :lotpot:

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SAM
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by SAM »

Hombre wrote:WTF. Where do you get these bizarre references. post the link to the original HB and let me see the source of your hallucination.


Isaiah 37:36, And the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand; and when men arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

לו וַיֵּצֵא מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה, וַיַּכֶּה בְּמַחֲנֵה אַשּׁוּר, מֵאָה וּשְׁמֹנִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה, אָלֶף; וַיַּשְׁכִּימוּ בַבֹּקֶר, וְהִנֵּה כֻלָּם פְּגָרִים מֵתִים.
Maybe we need to ask - why is it Muslims have been losing ground to the west for past 150 years. hile Jews & Christians are getting stronger - Muslims are geting weaker & weaker. More Muslim die at the hand of another Muslim then any other non-Muslims.
Religion of Allah, Islam is getting stronger and stronger pervading the whole world, unlike Christianity which is slowly dying and Judaism is limited to Jews, not to Gentiles.
:horseride: I see you are still riding. haw far are you from Istanbul or it is Istanboolbool :lotpot:
:flamethrower: :blahblah1:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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SAM
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by SAM »

Fernando wrote:
sum wrote: The myth might remain but the Angels do not.

sum
They've gone - there are just too many dogs and pictures around. Perhaps Walt Disney was the last straw.
Image
Revelation 12:7

Image

An excellent fairy tale for kids like Santa Claus. :roflmao:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

sum
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

Do you know, with references, when Angels last fought alongside muslims in battle?

Are they helping the Sunni or Shia sects?

sum

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SAM
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by SAM »

sum wrote:Hello SAM

Do you know, with references, when Angels last fought alongside muslims in battle?

Are they helping the Sunni or Shia sects?

sum
Do not be a fool atheist! sum... :bash: At that time there was no Suni or Shia. The followers of Islam are called Mukmin (the believers).
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by manfred »

As a kid I had a hamster called "muhmin".
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

sum
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

If you had read my post properly you would have noticed that it was in the present tense, not the past tense, and so your criticism does not apply. Please now answer my question and tell me if the Angels will be helping the Sunni or Shia muslims.

sum

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SAM
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by SAM »

sum wrote:Hello SAM

If you had read my post properly you would have noticed that it was in the present tense, not the past tense, and so your criticism does not apply. Please now answer my question and tell me if the Angels will be helping the Sunni or Shia muslims.

sum
You ask stupid questions to get stupid answers. At present who is the false prophet for Sunnis and Shiites to get help from Angles?
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

sum
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

Please calm down and answer my question. Are the Angels still active and who do you think that they will be helping - Sunni or Shia muslims?

sum

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Hombre
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Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by Hombre »

SAM wrote:Isaiah 37:36, And the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand; and when men arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.

לו וַיֵּצֵא מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה, וַיַּכֶּה בְּמַחֲנֵה אַשּׁוּר, מֵאָה וּשְׁמֹנִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה, אָלֶף; וַיַּשְׁכִּימוּ בַבֹּקֶר, וְהִנֵּה כֻלָּם פְּגָרִים מֵתִים.
you are full of sh...t. Perhaps you forget that I am fluent in Hebrew and can cross-check anything you post in Hebrew.
First. Chapter in Hebrew Bible is marked with letters - not numbers. That is your first giveaway. Here is the full text of Chapter 36 & 37 in its original Hebrew & Aramaic languages. Show me where the sentence above shows up in the following chapters?
ישעיהו פרק לו
א וַיְהִי בְּאַרְבַּע עֶשְׂרֵה שָׁנָה לַמֶּלֶךְ חִזְקִיָּהוּ, עָלָה סַנְחֵרִיב מֶלֶךְ-אַשּׁוּר עַל כָּל-עָרֵי יְהוּדָה הַבְּצֻרוֹת--וַיִּתְפְּשֵׂם. ב וַיִּשְׁלַח מֶלֶךְ-אַשּׁוּר אֶת-רַבְשָׁקֵה מִלָּכִישׁ יְרוּשָׁלְַמָה אֶל-הַמֶּלֶךְ חִזְקִיָּהוּ, בְּחֵיל כָּבֵד; וַיַּעֲמֹד, בִּתְעָלַת הַבְּרֵכָה הָעֶלְיוֹנָה, בִּמְסִלַּת, שְׂדֵה כוֹבֵס. ג וַיֵּצֵא אֵלָיו אֶלְיָקִים בֶּן-חִלְקִיָּהוּ, אֲשֶׁר עַל-הַבָּיִת--וְשֶׁבְנָא, הַסֹּפֵר, וְיוֹאָח בֶּן-אָסָף, הַמַּזְכִּיר. ד וַיֹּאמֶר אֲלֵיהֶם רַבְשָׁקֵה, אִמְרוּ-נָא אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ: כֹּה-אָמַר הַמֶּלֶךְ הַגָּדוֹל, מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר, מָה הַבִּטָּחוֹן הַזֶּה, אֲשֶׁר בָּטָחְתָּ. ה אָמַרְתִּי, אַךְ-דְּבַר-שְׂפָתַיִם, עֵצָה וּגְבוּרָה, לַמִּלְחָמָה; עַתָּה עַל-מִי בָטַחְתָּ, כִּי מָרַדְתָּ בִּי. ו הִנֵּה בָטַחְתָּ עַל-מִשְׁעֶנֶת הַקָּנֶה הָרָצוּץ הַזֶּה, עַל-מִצְרַיִם, אֲשֶׁר יִסָּמֵךְ אִישׁ עָלָיו, וּבָא בְכַפּוֹ וּנְקָבָהּ: כֵּן פַּרְעֹה מֶלֶךְ-מִצְרַיִם, לְכָל-הַבֹּטְחִים עָלָיו. ז וְכִי-תֹאמַר אֵלַי, אֶל-יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ בָּטָחְנוּ: הֲלוֹא-הוּא, אֲשֶׁר הֵסִיר חִזְקִיָּהוּ אֶת-בָּמֹתָיו וְאֶת-מִזְבְּחֹתָיו, וַיֹּאמֶר לִיהוּדָה וְלִירוּשָׁלִַם, לִפְנֵי הַמִּזְבֵּחַ הַזֶּה תִּשְׁתַּחֲווּ. ח וְעַתָּה הִתְעָרֶב נָא, אֶת-אֲדֹנִי הַמֶּלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר; וְאֶתְּנָה לְךָ, אַלְפַּיִם סוּסִים--אִם-תּוּכַל, לָתֶת לְךָ רֹכְבִים עֲלֵיהֶם. ט וְאֵיךְ תָּשִׁיב, אֵת פְּנֵי פַחַת אַחַד עַבְדֵי אֲדֹנִי--הַקְּטַנִּים; וַתִּבְטַח לְךָ עַל-מִצְרַיִם, לְרֶכֶב וּלְפָרָשִׁים. י וְעַתָּה הֲמִבַּלְעֲדֵי יְהוָה, עָלִיתִי עַל-הָאָרֶץ הַזֹּאת לְהַשְׁחִיתָהּ; יְהוָה אָמַר אֵלַי, עֲלֵה אֶל-הָאָרֶץ הַזֹּאת וְהַשְׁחִיתָהּ. {ס} יא וַיֹּאמֶר אֶלְיָקִים וְשֶׁבְנָא וְיוֹאָח אֶל-רַבְשָׁקֵה, דַּבֶּר-נָא אֶל-עֲבָדֶיךָ אֲרָמִית--כִּי שֹׁמְעִים, אֲנָחְנוּ; וְאַל-תְּדַבֵּר אֵלֵינוּ, יְהוּדִית, בְּאָזְנֵי הָעָם, אֲשֶׁר עַל-הַחוֹמָה. יב וַיֹּאמֶר רַבְשָׁקֵה, הַאֶל אֲדֹנֶיךָ וְאֵלֶיךָ שְׁלָחַנִי אֲדֹנִי, לְדַבֵּר, אֶת-הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה: הֲלֹא עַל-הָאֲנָשִׁים, הַיֹּשְׁבִים עַל-הַחוֹמָה, לֶאֱכֹל אֶת-חראיהם (צוֹאָתָם) וְלִשְׁתּוֹת אֶת-שיניהם (מֵימֵי רַגְלֵיהֶם), עִמָּכֶם. יג וַיַּעֲמֹד, רַבְשָׁקֵה, וַיִּקְרָא בְקוֹל-גָּדוֹל, יְהוּדִית; וַיֹּאמֶר--שִׁמְעוּ אֶת-דִּבְרֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ הַגָּדוֹל, מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. יד כֹּה אָמַר הַמֶּלֶךְ, אַל-יַשִּׁא לָכֶם חִזְקִיָּהוּ: כִּי לֹא-יוּכַל, לְהַצִּיל אֶתְכֶם. טו וְאַל-יַבְטַח אֶתְכֶם חִזְקִיָּהוּ אֶל-יְהוָה לֵאמֹר, הַצֵּל יַצִּילֵנוּ יְהוָה: לֹא תִנָּתֵן הָעִיר הַזֹּאת, בְּיַד מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. טז אַל-תִּשְׁמְעוּ, אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ; {פ}
כִּי כֹה אָמַר הַמֶּלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר, עֲשׂוּ-אִתִּי בְרָכָה וּצְאוּ אֵלַי, וְאִכְלוּ אִישׁ-גַּפְנוֹ וְאִישׁ תְּאֵנָתוֹ, וּשְׁתוּ אִישׁ מֵי-בוֹרוֹ. יז עַד-בֹּאִי, וְלָקַחְתִּי אֶתְכֶם אֶל-אֶרֶץ כְּאַרְצְכֶם: אֶרֶץ דָּגָן וְתִירוֹשׁ, אֶרֶץ לֶחֶם וּכְרָמִים. יח פֶּן-יַסִּית אֶתְכֶם חִזְקִיָּהוּ לֵאמֹר, יְהוָה יַצִּילֵנוּ; הַהִצִּילוּ אֱלֹהֵי הַגּוֹיִם, אִישׁ אֶת-אַרְצוֹ, מִיַּד, מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. יט אַיֵּה אֱלֹהֵי חֲמָת, וְאַרְפָּד--אַיֵּה, אֱלֹהֵי סְפַרְוָיִם; וְכִי-הִצִּילוּ אֶת-שֹׁמְרוֹן, מִיָּדִי. כ מִי, בְּכָל-אֱלֹהֵי הָאֲרָצוֹת הָאֵלֶּה, אֲשֶׁר-הִצִּילוּ אֶת-אַרְצָם, מִיָּדִי; כִּי-יַצִּיל יְהוָה אֶת-יְרוּשָׁלִַם, מִיָּדִי. כא וַיַּחֲרִישׁוּ, וְלֹא-עָנוּ אֹתוֹ דָּבָר: כִּי-מִצְוַת הַמֶּלֶךְ הִיא לֵאמֹר, לֹא תַעֲנֻהוּ. כב וַיָּבֹא אֶלְיָקִים בֶּן-חִלְקִיָּהוּ אֲשֶׁר-עַל-הַבַּיִת וְשֶׁבְנָא הַסֹּפֵר וְיוֹאָח בֶּן-אָסָף הַמַּזְכִּיר, אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ--קְרוּעֵי בְגָדִים; וַיַּגִּידוּ לוֹ, אֵת דִּבְרֵי רַבְשָׁקֵה
ישעיהו פרק לז
א וַיְהִי, כִּשְׁמֹעַ הַמֶּלֶךְ חִזְקִיָּהוּ, וַיִּקְרַע, אֶת-בְּגָדָיו; וַיִּתְכַּס בַּשָּׂק, וַיָּבֹא בֵּית יְהוָה. ב וַיִּשְׁלַח אֶת-אֶלְיָקִים אֲשֶׁר-עַל-הַבַּיִת וְאֵת שֶׁבְנָא הַסּוֹפֵר, וְאֵת זִקְנֵי הַכֹּהֲנִים, מִתְכַּסִּים, בַּשַּׂקִּים--אֶל-יְשַׁעְיָהוּ בֶן-אָמוֹץ, הַנָּבִיא. ג וַיֹּאמְרוּ אֵלָיו, כֹּה אָמַר חִזְקִיָּהוּ, יוֹם-צָרָה וְתוֹכֵחָה וּנְאָצָה, הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה: כִּי בָאוּ בָנִים עַד-מַשְׁבֵּר, וְכֹחַ אַיִן לְלֵדָה. ד אוּלַי יִשְׁמַע יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ אֵת דִּבְרֵי רַבְשָׁקֵה, אֲשֶׁר שְׁלָחוֹ מֶלֶךְ-אַשּׁוּר אֲדֹנָיו לְחָרֵף אֱלֹהִים חַי, וְהוֹכִיחַ בַּדְּבָרִים, אֲשֶׁר שָׁמַע יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; וְנָשָׂאתָ תְפִלָּה, בְּעַד הַשְּׁאֵרִית הַנִּמְצָאָה. ה וַיָּבֹאוּ, עַבְדֵי הַמֶּלֶךְ חִזְקִיָּהוּ--אֶל-יְשַׁעְיָהוּ. ו וַיֹּאמֶר אֲלֵיהֶם יְשַׁעְיָהוּ, כֹּה תֹאמְרוּן אֶל-אֲדֹנֵיכֶם: כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה, אַל-תִּירָא מִפְּנֵי הַדְּבָרִים אֲשֶׁר שָׁמַעְתָּ, אֲשֶׁר גִּדְּפוּ נַעֲרֵי מֶלֶךְ-אַשּׁוּר, אוֹתִי. ז הִנְנִי נוֹתֵן בּוֹ רוּחַ, וְשָׁמַע שְׁמוּעָה וְשָׁב אֶל-אַרְצוֹ; וְהִפַּלְתִּיו בַּחֶרֶב, בְּאַרְצוֹ. ח וַיָּשָׁב, רַבְשָׁקֵה, וַיִּמְצָא אֶת-מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר, נִלְחָם עַל-לִבְנָה: כִּי שָׁמַע, כִּי נָסַע מִלָּכִישׁ. ט וַיִּשְׁמַע, עַל-תִּרְהָקָה מֶלֶךְ-כּוּשׁ לֵאמֹר, יָצָא, לְהִלָּחֵם אִתָּךְ; וַיִּשְׁמַע וַיִּשְׁלַח מַלְאָכִים, אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ לֵאמֹר. י כֹּה תֹאמְרוּן, אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ מֶלֶךְ-יְהוּדָה לֵאמֹר, אַל-יַשִּׁאֲךָ אֱלֹהֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר אַתָּה בּוֹטֵחַ בּוֹ לֵאמֹר: לֹא תִנָּתֵן יְרוּשָׁלִַם, בְּיַד מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. יא הִנֵּה אַתָּה שָׁמַעְתָּ, אֲשֶׁר עָשׂוּ מַלְכֵי אַשּׁוּר לְכָל-הָאֲרָצוֹת--לְהַחֲרִימָם; וְאַתָּה, תִּנָּצֵל. יב הַהִצִּילוּ אוֹתָם אֱלֹהֵי הַגּוֹיִם, אֲשֶׁר הִשְׁחִיתוּ אֲבוֹתַי, אֶת-גּוֹזָן, וְאֶת-חָרָן; וְרֶצֶף וּבְנֵי-עֶדֶן, אֲשֶׁר בִּתְלַשָּׂר. יג אַיֵּה מֶלֶךְ-חֲמָת וּמֶלֶךְ אַרְפָּד, וּמֶלֶךְ לָעִיר סְפַרְוָיִם, הֵנַע, וְעִוָּה. יד וַיִּקַּח חִזְקִיָּהוּ אֶת-הַסְּפָרִים מִיַּד הַמַּלְאָכִים, וַיִּקְרָאֵהוּ; וַיַּעַל בֵּית יְהוָה, וַיִּפְרְשֵׂהוּ חִזְקִיָּהוּ לִפְנֵי יְהוָה. {ס} טו וַיִּתְפַּלֵּל, חִזְקִיָּהוּ, אֶל-יְהוָה, לֵאמֹר. טז יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, יֹשֵׁב הַכְּרֻבִים, אַתָּה-הוּא הָאֱלֹהִים לְבַדְּךָ, לְכֹל מַמְלְכוֹת הָאָרֶץ; אַתָּה עָשִׂיתָ, אֶת-הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֶת-הָאָרֶץ. יז הַטֵּה יְהוָה אָזְנְךָ וּשְׁמָע, פְּקַח יְהוָה עֵינֶךָ וּרְאֵה; וּשְׁמַע, אֵת כָּל-דִּבְרֵי סַנְחֵרִיב, אֲשֶׁר שָׁלַח, לְחָרֵף אֱלֹהִים חָי. יח אָמְנָם, יְהוָה: הֶחֱרִיבוּ מַלְכֵי אַשּׁוּר, אֶת-כָּל-הָאֲרָצוֹת--וְאֶת-אַרְצָם. יט וְנָתֹן אֶת-אֱלֹהֵיהֶם, בָּאֵשׁ: כִּי לֹא אֱלֹהִים הֵמָּה, כִּי אִם-מַעֲשֵׂה יְדֵי-אָדָם עֵץ וָאֶבֶן--וַיְאַבְּדוּם. כ וְעַתָּה יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ, הוֹשִׁיעֵנוּ מִיָּדוֹ; וְיֵדְעוּ כָּל-מַמְלְכוֹת הָאָרֶץ, כִּי-אַתָּה יְהוָה לְבַדֶּךָ. כא וַיִּשְׁלַח יְשַׁעְיָהוּ בֶן-אָמוֹץ, אֶל-חִזְקִיָּהוּ לֵאמֹר: כֹּה-אָמַר יְהוָה, אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֲשֶׁר הִתְפַּלַּלְתָּ אֵלַי, אֶל-סַנְחֵרִיב מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר. כב זֶה הַדָּבָר, אֲשֶׁר-דִּבֶּר יְהוָה עָלָיו: בָּזָה לְךָ לָעֲגָה לְךָ, בְּתוּלַת בַּת-צִיּוֹן--אַחֲרֶיךָ רֹאשׁ הֵנִיעָה, בַּת יְרוּשָׁלִָם. כג אֶת-מִי חֵרַפְתָּ וְגִדַּפְתָּ, וְעַל-מִי הֲרִימוֹתָה קּוֹל; וַתִּשָּׂא מָרוֹם עֵינֶיךָ, אֶל-קְדוֹשׁ יִשְׂרָאֵל. כד בְּיַד עֲבָדֶיךָ, חֵרַפְתָּ אֲדֹנָי, וַתֹּאמֶר בְּרֹב רִכְבִּי אֲנִי עָלִיתִי מְרוֹם הָרִים, יַרְכְּתֵי לְבָנוֹן; וְאֶכְרֹת קוֹמַת אֲרָזָיו, מִבְחַר בְּרֹשָׁיו, וְאָבוֹא מְרוֹם קִצּוֹ, יַעַר כַּרְמִלּוֹ. כה אֲנִי קַרְתִּי, וְשָׁתִיתִי מָיִם; וְאַחְרִב, בְּכַף-פְּעָמַי, כֹּל, יְאֹרֵי מָצוֹר. כו הֲלוֹא-שָׁמַעְתָּ לְמֵרָחוֹק אוֹתָהּ עָשִׂיתִי, מִימֵי קֶדֶם וִיצַרְתִּיהָ; עַתָּה הֲבֵאתִיהָ--וּתְהִי לְהַשְׁאוֹת גַּלִּים נִצִּים, עָרִים בְּצֻרוֹת. כז וְיֹשְׁבֵיהֶן, קִצְרֵי-יָד, חַתּוּ, וָבֹשׁוּ; הָיוּ עֵשֶׂב שָׂדֶה, וִירַק דֶּשֶׁא, חֲצִיר גַּגּוֹת, וּשְׁדֵמָה לִפְנֵי קָמָה. כח וְשִׁבְתְּךָ וְצֵאתְךָ וּבוֹאֲךָ, יָדָעְתִּי; וְאֵת, הִתְרַגֶּזְךָ אֵלָי. כט יַעַן הִתְרַגֶּזְךָ אֵלַי, וְשַׁאֲנַנְךָ עָלָה בְאָזְנָי--וְשַׂמְתִּי חַחִי בְּאַפֶּךָ, וּמִתְגִּי בִּשְׂפָתֶיךָ, וַהֲשִׁיבֹתִיךָ, בַּדֶּרֶךְ אֲשֶׁר-בָּאתָ בָּהּ. ל וְזֶה-לְּךָ הָאוֹת--אָכוֹל הַשָּׁנָה סָפִיחַ, וּבַשָּׁנָה הַשֵּׁנִית שָׁחִיס; וּבַשָּׁנָה הַשְּׁלִישִׁית, זִרְעוּ וְקִצְרוּ וְנִטְעוּ כְרָמִים--ואכול (וְאִכְלוּ) פִרְיָם. לא וְיָסְפָה פְּלֵיטַת בֵּית-יְהוּדָה, הַנִּשְׁאָרָה--שֹׁרֶשׁ לְמָטָּה; וְעָשָׂה פְרִי, לְמָעְלָה. לב כִּי מִירוּשָׁלִַם תֵּצֵא שְׁאֵרִית, וּפְלֵיטָה מֵהַר צִיּוֹן; קִנְאַת יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, תַּעֲשֶׂה-זֹּאת. {ס} לג לָכֵן, כֹּה-אָמַר יְהוָה אֶל-מֶלֶךְ אַשּׁוּר, לֹא יָבוֹא אֶל-הָעִיר הַזֹּאת, וְלֹא-יוֹרֶה שָׁם חֵץ; וְלֹא-יְקַדְּמֶנָּה מָגֵן, וְלֹא-יִשְׁפֹּךְ עָלֶיהָ סֹלְלָה. לד בַּדֶּרֶךְ אֲשֶׁר-בָּא, בָּהּ יָשׁוּב; וְאֶל-הָעִיר הַזֹּאת לֹא יָבוֹא, נְאֻם-יְהוָה. לה וְגַנּוֹתִי עַל-הָעִיר הַזֹּאת, לְהוֹשִׁיעָהּ--לְמַעֲנִי, וּלְמַעַן דָּוִד עַבְדִּי. {ס} לו וַיֵּצֵא מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה, וַיַּכֶּה בְּמַחֲנֵה אַשּׁוּר, מֵאָה וּשְׁמֹנִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה, אָלֶף; וַיַּשְׁכִּימוּ בַבֹּקֶר, וְהִנֵּה כֻלָּם פְּגָרִים מֵתִים. לז וַיִּסַּע וַיֵּלֶךְ, וַיָּשָׁב סַנְחֵרִיב מֶלֶךְ-אַשּׁוּר; וַיֵּשֶׁב, בְּנִינְוֵה. לח וַיְהִי הוּא מִשְׁתַּחֲוֶה בֵּית נִסְרֹךְ אֱלֹהָיו, וְאַדְרַמֶּלֶךְ וְשַׂרְאֶצֶר בָּנָיו הִכֻּהוּ בַחֶרֶב, וְהֵמָּה נִמְלְטוּ, אֶרֶץ אֲרָרָט; וַיִּמְלֹךְ אֵסַר-חַדֹּן בְּנוֹ, תַּחְתָּיו

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manfred
Posts: 11617
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:29 pm

Re: Has Allah retired his Angels?

Post by manfred »

??
The part you ask about is in the text you quoted, near the bottom.

So SAM (unusually) did not make up the quote entirely, but he did his usual tiresome thing of not looking at the rest of the text. Jerusalem is being attacked bu the Assyrians, and Isaiah preaches to build morale generally, and specially to encourage hope in the king of Judah, Hezekiah and to warn Sennacherib, the king of Assyria leading the Army.
This will be the sign for you, Hezekiah:

“This year you will eat what grows by itself,
and the second year what springs from that.
But in the third year sow and reap,
plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
31
Once more a remnant of the kingdom of Judah
will take root below and bear fruit above.
32
For out of Jerusalem will come a remnant,
and out of Mount Zion a band of survivors.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

33 “Therefore this is what the Lord says concerning the king of Assyria:

“He will not enter this city
or shoot an arrow here.
He will not come before it with shield
or build a siege ramp against it.
34
By the way that he came he will return;
he will not enter this city,”
declares the Lord.
35
“I will defend this city and save it,
for my sake and for the sake of David my servant!”

But the odds did not look good.

But then something strange happened. No exact explanation is given, but a large number of the Assyrian soldiers died in the night. Food poisoning? Bad water? A disease? Malaria? Scorpions or snakes?

Isaiah describes this as follows:
36 Then the angel of the Lord went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning—there were all the dead bodies! 37 So Sennacherib king of Assyria broke camp and withdrew. He returned to Nineveh and stayed there.
The 185000 is almost certainly a exaggerated. And what Isaiah is doing is simply using a to us antiquated way of describing death: The "angel of death" comes. Isaiah is not telling us how these people died. He expresses his belief that it was God's will that they should. The angel of death came for them.

He leaves us in the dark of the exact circumstances. We cannot ask him why. But he does tell us that the Assyrian broke up camp and left. So obviously quite a few were left. But what mattered to him most, was to communicate his firm belief that it was God who protected Jerusalem.

What is also worth noting is that this "angel" evolved in later traditions into better known "reaper"...again, few would argue there really is such a thing.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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