manfred wrote:OK, if in your version of Islamic tradition Ishmael is the father of all the Arabs, and he also was a prophet, then the obviously also was a prophet for the Arabs.
So it cannot be correct to call Mohammed the first warner of the Arabs....
Can you really not see that the two stories do not fit together?
But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.
SAM wrote:It is so clear that you have no idea, clueless and no answer to my question, how Ishmael had taught Abraham religion to all 12 of his children without the Books or Scriptures.
This means that Allah is true, no warners has been sent to Arab tribes since Ismael. And Muhammad 'abduhu warasuluh including the Al Quran was sent to both the Arabs and to Mankind.
I know, how Ishmael had taught his children the teachings of Abraham without scriptures, which finally was accomplished by Muhammad.
But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.
"And mention in the Book, Ishmael. Indeed, he was true to his promise, and was a messenger and a prophet" (Quran 19:54)
SAM wrote:Allah said correctly,, no warners has been sent to Arab tribes since Ismael. And Muhammad 'abduhu warasuluh including Al Quran was sent to both the Arabs and to all Mankind.
SAM wrote:There has never been a warner has passed among 12 Arab tribes since Ishmael.
ISLAM_rules said correctly that Mohammed was the first prophet sent to the Quraish...
When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"
But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.
And their predecessors rejected (the Truth); these have not received a tenth of what We had granted to those: yet when they rejected My messengers, how (terrible) was My rejection (of them)
ISLAM_rules wrote:Very simple... First Ishmail he go live with the Arabs, and then prophet there. Then Ishmail has make FATHER (=anchenntar) of all the Arabs, mean now new Arabs, not the same as old Arabs who live with Ishmail, no warner yet until Mohammed pbuh come .
ISLAM_rules wrote:Very simple... First Ishmail he go live with the Arabs, and then prophet there. Then Ishmail has make FATHER (=anchenntar) of all the Arabs, mean now new Arabs, not the same as old Arabs who live with Ishmail, no warner yet until Mohammed pbuh come .
Well, they have had 1400 years to get the story straight, whereas Manfred has only had a few decades to unpick it. I think Manfred is making better progress, though.SAM wrote:Muslims know more than you know...manfred.
manfred believe Qur'an 34:44 about the Arabs ((Ishmaelites) to Mohammed: But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners.skynightblaze wrote:@Sam
The explanation given by you and Islam_Rules only shows that you guys are simply making up excuses because your answers do not add up. They create other problems.
I would like to add what Manfred said. If Abraham and Ishmael were NOT warners/messengers to arabs contemporary to muhammad and to the future generations thereafter then there is no reason why you muslims should glorify Kaba or have hajj one of the pillars of islam BECAUSE its connected to teachings of Abraham and Ishmael which you claim were not for people during muhammad's time or thereafter.
If you can prove that Ishmaell has taught his 12 sons with books/scriptures, then you can claim that Muhammad had learned from his own people.
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