Infidels must be killed

[frankie]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/03/video ... -find-them

A frightening expose of the mind-set of Turkish Muslims.

If this is a sample of what Muslims are taught to believe, then it is little wonder that IS and their ilk are at work throughout the world today.

Muslims are taught that anyone not believing as they do should be murdered, proving without doubt the god they believe in is an evil entity hell bent on the death and destruction of humanity.

The Bible calls this evil entity Satan, the destroyer of truth, the father of lies, a deceiver who leads humanity astray.

Satan (Hebrew: שָּׂטָן satan, meaning "adversary";[1] Arabic: شيطان shaitan, meaning; "astray", "distant", or sometimes "devil") is a figure appearing in the texts of the Abrahamic religions[2][3] who brings evil and temptation, and is known as the deceiver who leads humanity astray. Some religious groups teach that he originated as an angel who fell out of favor with God, seducing humanity into the ways of sin, and who has power in the fallen world. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, Satan is primarily an accuser and adversary, a decidedly malevolent entity, also called the devil, who possesses demonic qualities.

Some of the names of Allah which illustrate further, Allah is a malevolent being with evil intent, which fits the description of Satan perfectly.

Al-Mumit -The Taker of Life
Al-Qabid -The Constrictor
Al-Khafid -The Abaser
Al-Matin -The Forceful One
Al-Muntaqim -The Avenger
Ad-Darr -The Creator of The Harmful

[pr126]

21st century young men with 7th century mindset.

[mahiwal]

Muslims are taught that anyone not believing as they do should be murdered,

This is exactly the reason why this forum died, FFI used to be fun...

[manfred]

So why are not correcting what he said, with sources?

[mahiwal]

So why are not correcting what he said, with sources?

If you want to get attention of the "thinking and educated people" in religion, tell them their religion is bad in a sensible way, don't make them look like they are mindless zombies, they wouldn't listen to you then.....

[manfred]

mahiwal , I have not written the comment above, so don't blame me for what it says. Perhaps we should explore in some detail a) what Islam teaches regarding those who do not follow it and b) how Muslims see and treat non-Muslims.

And, as a matter of interest, I read in a past post of yours that you approve of husbands beating their wives. Would you call that the actions of an educated person?

Would you say if all approved of husbands beating their wives, more Muslims would talk to us? And what makes you think we particularly need to make friends with someone who beats up women?

I will describe Islam as I see it, and I welcome honest discussions and I am always open to be corrected if anything I say is not accurate. I do not want to convert any Muslim to anything else, I merely want them to see what Islam teaches and ask themselves if that is what really defines them.

[Ariel]

So why are not correcting what he said, with sources?

If you want to get attention of the "thinking and educated people" in religion, tell them their religion is bad in a sensible way, don't make them look like they are mindless zombies, they wouldn't listen to you then.....

Ahh, Yes I think understand you. You want us to tell Muslims that Islam is not that bad and it means peace and that only a few Muslims has hijacked the Koran, and that the bible is also full of barbarism. Do you think that will give Muslims a better feeling? Do you think they will leave Islam in droves if we pamper them a bit?

Please give us some tips mahiwal. I also would like more fun here.

Nothing to do with your post, but I have been to the Mathews Passion, and this is one of my favourite parts.

[mahiwal]

Ariel, by all means, continue the hate fest...

[mahiwal]

manfred, I was trying to say that if you come over the top, its not effective...i can make a statement that makes me feel good and then I can make a statement that gets the message across....
regarding wife beating, I do believe it could be allowed as a last resort and I'm a non religionist so my beliefs are not based on scriptures....

[Fernando]

manfred, I was trying to say that if you come over the top, its not effective...i can make a statement that makes me feel good and then I can make a statement that gets the message across....
regarding wife beating, I do believe it could be allowed as a last resort and I'm a non religionist so my beliefs are not based on scriptures....

How about husband-beating as a last resort?

[manfred]

manfred, I was trying to say that if you come over the top, its not effective...i can make a statement that makes me feel good and then I can make a statement that gets the message across....
regarding wife beating, I do believe it could be allowed as a last resort and I'm a non religionist so my beliefs are not based on scriptures....

Yes, I agree, it is neither polite nor effective to be sharp with someone purely because of the religion they happen to be born into. We had a Muslim member here recently calling himself Al-fatiha... I tried to make him welcome, in fact more so than most other new arrivals, but then it soon emerged he would not even dignify people here with proper discussions. He has a set of stock answers he posted over and over and all he really wanted to is to leave some copies of his articles here. Not long, and he became quite hostile and at times very rude. In the end he left, despite having been asked not to.

We also have a member called SAM, who has been around a long time, also a Muslim, who likes to post things form fascist websites and generally has very little real interaction. His aim, it seems to me, is lower the tone to bring the site into disrepute.

So, sure, I give all the benefit of the doubt and really try to have a proper conversation, an exchange of views without insults, but that same effort is rarely reciprocated by Muslims here. One exception is an Indonesian guy calling himself Garudaman. He has never been impolite to anyone.

So, sure, I like nothing better than a forum where everybody respects everybody else and tries to have open frank exchanges of views without outbursts, but given the nature of this topic sadly that is not always achievable.

So stay a while, if you have time and chat with us. I cannot promise everything will always be smooth and easy, but then again, I don't need to explain to you why that is so. But I can promise it will be a challenging experience with many opportunities to learn things and to look at things from new perspectives.

Now, here is the problem: when I explain or spell out some issues about Islam to a Muslim, I rarely get a reasoned response, but I get "offence". The very act of expressing merely what my conclusions of my studies are is an "insult". I happen to be 100% convinced that Mohammed was a cult leader, a medieval precursor of someone like David Koresh, only on a much grander scale, and more successful. I know a Muslim would not share that view, and most would not even let me say what I think. So how do you have a productive discussion and an exchange of ideas if one sees your ideas as "insults" to him personally and does not allow anyone to analyse his own ideas in any way? In effect, such behaviour is a form of censorship, and I for one will not submit to it willingly.

As to beating one's wife, i would tell you that I most profoundly disagree, but perhaps this is not the best topic to start on...

[Ariel]

Ariel, by all means, continue the hate fest...

Mahiwal , Please tell me how we should debate with Muslims.

[mahiwal]

manfred, I was trying to say that if you come over the top, its not effective...i can make a statement that makes me feel good and then I can make a statement that gets the message across....
regarding wife beating, I do believe it could be allowed as a last resort and I'm a non religionist so my beliefs are not based on scriptures....

Yes, I agree, it is neither polite nor effective to be sharp with someone purely because of the religion they happen to be born into. We had a Muslim member here recently calling himself Al-fatiha... I tried to make him welcome, in fact more so than most other new arrivals, but then it soon emerged he would not even dignify people here with proper discussions. He has a set of stock answers he posted over and over and all he really wanted to is to leave some copies of his articles here. Not long, and he became quite hostile and at times very rude. In the end he left, despite having been asked not to.

We also have a member called SAM, who has been around a long time, also a Muslim, who likes to post things form fascist websites and generally has very little real interaction. His aim, it seems to me, is lower the tone to bring the site into disrepute.

So, sure, I give all the benefit of the doubt and really try to have a proper conversation, an exchange of views without insults, but that same effort is rarely reciprocated by Muslims here. One exception is an Indonesian guy calling himself Garudaman. He has never been impolite to anyone.

So, sure, I like nothing better than a forum where everybody respects everybody else and tries to have open frank exchanges of views without outbursts, but given the nature of this topic sadly that is not always achievable.

So stay a while, if you have time and chat with us. I cannot promise everything will always be smooth and easy, but then again, I don't need to explain to you why that is so. But I can promise it will be a challenging experience with many opportunities to learn things and to look at things from new perspectives.

Now, here is the problem: when I explain or spell out some issues about Islam to a Muslim, I rarely get a reasoned response, but I get "offence". The very act of expressing merely what my conclusions of my studies are is an "insult". I happen to be 100% convinced that Mohammed was a cult leader, a medieval precursor of someone like David Koresh, only on a much grander scale, and more successful. I know a Muslim would not share that view, and most would not even let me say what I think. So how do you have a productive discussion and an exchange of ideas if one sees your ideas as "insults" to him personally and does not allow anyone to analyse his own ideas in any way? In effect, such behaviour is a form of censorship, and I for one will not submit to it willingly.

As to beating one's wife, i would tell you that I most profoundly disagree, but perhaps this is not the best topic to start on...

Hi, not sure if you remember me from the old forum but I used to be an active member on the old FFI forum, I'm a product of how this forum changes the way how a typical religionist would think... It sows the seeds and then it takes many years after which you finally make a decision.... Took me 6 years and I was educated in the West (University only), imagine someone living in Iran, Saudia, Afghanistan or Pakistan,

I was transformed by Yeezeevee and doubtless, they were never offensive to me and I always admired how mature they were with their responses even when I foul played, they never annoyed me, never...... I think the key was how they said everything to me and not what they said and ultimately I started listening to what they had said...

I think the best way is to ask them more questions and make less statements about religion being bad and prophet being a cult leader, Let them be rude and obnoxious, its natural and justified.... They haven't been brought up to accept criticism regarding prophet & Allah.... You are pulling their most sensitive nerve, have some more patience with them..... just toning down a bit to achieve a purpose is not censorship, its being mature and responsible....

Regarding wife beating, I have some scenarios in my own mind where I justify a slap although I never did it....

[frankie]

So why are not correcting what he said, with sources?

If you want to get attention of the "thinking and educated people" in religion, tell them their religion is bad in a sensible way, don't make them look like they are mindless zombies, they wouldn't listen to you then.....

mahiwal:

Asking Muslims questions about their faith leads to them giving mis leading and downright untruths about it.Even when the truth is pointed out to them by showing the relevant verses from their own scriptures they still will not accept the truth.

I am not one to tap dance around the truth, especially when I am told lies, it is far better to hit the target of Islamic truth from the start, than pussy foot around it.

Islam is a violent faith, its own scriptures prove this, it wants to rule the world with violent,intolerant,divisive and discriminatory rules, which are highly damaging to humanity.

This agenda must be exposed, which is what this Forum was designed to do, and no apologies must be made for doing so.

[mahiwal]

So why are not correcting what he said, with sources?

If you want to get attention of the "thinking and educated people" in religion, tell them their religion is bad in a sensible way, don't make them look like they are mindless zombies, they wouldn't listen to you then.....

mahiwal:

Asking Muslims questions about their faith leads to them giving mis leading and downright untruths about it.Even when the truth is pointed out to them by showing the relevant verses from their own scriptures they still will not accept the truth.

I am not one to tap dance around the truth, especially when I am told lies, it is far better to hit the target of Islamic truth from the start, than pussy foot around it.

Islam is a violent faith, its own scriptures prove this, it wants to rule the world with violent,intolerant,divisive and discriminatory rules, which are highly damaging to humanity.

This agenda must be exposed, which is what this Forum was designed to do, and no apologies must be made for doing so.

I know it as a fact that they will ultimately listen....

[sum]

Hello mahiwal

I am pleased that you have returned to the forum and welcome you back. I remember you well and the thought provoking comments that you made.

sum

[frankie]

mahiwal:

I know it as a fact that they will ultimately listen

What reason can you give for your confidence?

[mahiwal]

Hello mahiwal

I am pleased that you have returned to the forum and welcome you back. I remember you well and the thought provoking comments that you made.

sum

Thanks sum
Its good to be back and thank you for your inputs years back... It helped me get to the point where I'm today...

[mahiwal]

mahiwal:

I know it as a fact that they will ultimately listen

What reason can you give for your confidence?

That's because we are an intelligent specie and human mind is designed to be inquisitive and we tend to go with logic and reasoning( including Muslims)... You just have to create an environment conducive to rational thinking and logical thought and then sit back and watch how the amazing human mind works...

Most of them are just plain ignorant in the matters of religion, they are happy with their beliefs and do not feel the need to inquire but they do sometimes question regarding things like all non believers going to hell and death punishment for apostasy and stoning but then the lifelong brainwashing takes over and they forget about it.... They like the feeling of security that they are protected by a God....

Most of them especially the youth just needs to be presented with the other side of the argument, although they will resist in the beginning, ultimately they would give in to logic....Some of them will be hardliners, not open to new ideas or the ones with self interests will probably be at a point of no return, these are the ones who have been brought up and surrounded by extremely conservative and stubborn religionalists, they might take 20 years before they even think about giving it a thought or even never... others brought up in educated families might take less time but I truly feel a vast majority just need to be reached out and they will come out of their ignorance sooner or later....

[skynightblaze]

Regarding wife beating, I have some scenarios in my own mind where I justify a slap although I never did it....

My question to you is- Do you really need to justify violence against your wife especially when you prefer rational thinking over religious beliefs? From your posts, I assume that you have now started to give a critical thought about religion (you deserve credit for this). If we keep thinking about excuses to justify something then human mind can find plenty and you will never reach the truth. Sugar coating is just running away from the problem instead of facing it. I agree it is easier said than done for a muslim to simply discard islam because of the upbringing, family issues and bondings. However, if someone wants to improve the first thing they need to admit is that the religion is flawed and they are in error. Without admitting one's errors, no one can improve. That's the first step towards changing yourself. I know its tough but that's the only way if you want to improve. Hence, If I were you, I would simply discard such teachings and not bother about defending them. I don't have to justify anything that some illiterate moron said 1400 years ago.

If you are still emotionally attached to islam then may be you can pick things that do not harm anyone and give you peace and reject the rest of islam. However, it would be incorrect to call yourself a muslim in that case but I guess it does not matter. You can simply say you are not a muslim but you pick good aspects (or peace giving aspects that do not harm anyone) from all sources out of which islam is one. Anyway I do not intend disrespect. These are just my thoughts.