Muslim Ex

[Syk]

I have wrote and deleted this so many times. How can I get anyone to understand this? How can I explain exactly what it was like? That the only word that does it justice is; hell.

I was born in the UK, to a mum who believed in a God/higher power but had many questions and a dad that is athiest. As a child I was sent to Church and sunday school, in school we said morning prayers. I was always encouraged to ask questions and find my own knowledge. In high school we learnt about all major religions, but now I see it was the sugar coated "we aren't all that different" versions.

I was with a muslim guy for 4 years. At first it was ok, he was loving, kind etc although somethings he said concerned me. My clothes were too open (they weren't), I shouldn't have male friends (even friends I have known for 20 years (actual friends, no kissing or sex involved!) I should get rid of them). Because it was mostly an LDR although I went over to him as much as I could, I (naively) thought it was about trust. He didn't know my life here in the UK, he was worried and jealous (yes, I wish I could slap me then too), so I thought I was building trust. I compromised a bit at first, then I noticed I was compromising more and more and he just had double standards. For example, don't talk to men but he could talk to woman etc. On three of my visits to Turkey, I took my mum. I wanted her to get to know him and his family. She was very concerned at the controlling nature, especially about my non revealing clothes, she actually said why should I have to defend you against him, you are a grown woman, capable of your own choices and decisions. I'll admit I didn't know much about islam then, only what I saw on tv and despite what the muslims think about the media making islam out to be bad, they don't. They give the "muslims are peaceful" "its only the radicals who are terrorists" so I believed that muslims were peaceful, yeah I even think I believed islam meant peace. (It showed how little I knew!!) I should have paid more attention to his mother. His father seemed to go everywhere but when i asked why his mother didn't go, she gave me a sad smile and a shrug. But saying that I also witnessed her praying, so she must believe that the man can do what he likes while the woman is home raising the children.

There was a weird exchange, when I met his father for the first time. I had never seen him look so scared, which made me scared too. After an intial shaking my hand, they proceeded to talk with serious faces while watching the tv, talking in turkish (My turkish is terrible) but I never did accept his translation after it of asking his dad's permission and his dad saying it was his life!

After 3 years we got engaged. He seemed to be more relaxed (although still talking about my clothes being too revealing and old male school friends). But again naively, thinking once we got married he would relax more. He even talked about trying alcohol and trying pork. So I thought he was pretty much muslim in name only. Yes again, more fool me!

6 months after we got engaged things changed dramatically. He had moved to a different city within his country and during ramadan last year, he was extra moody and nasty. I didn't know what was going on. After a week of this, I demanded answers (He was always a little moody during ramadan but never like this). He said he wants a muslim woman, that he is scared for the future of his (future) children. All he cared about was that his kids are muslim, I said all I care about is that my kids are happy and healthy. That if I didn't convert to being muslim, the relationship was finished. I felt like I had been hit by a truck. I found out a relative of his told him that he should push the muslim issue now as after marriage they are so hard to change and his life is a living hell with his wife. (I wonder if she knows what he is thinking?) But I believe in the city he is living in now, people have "helped him" with islam. We had a big argument and the relationship ended.

Three weeks later we got "back together" but in reality it was nothing like the relationship before. He had changed beyond all recognition. He was almost not human anymore. Was praying 5 times a day and would speak about how great islam was for hours. I always felt on trial, that my culture and traditions were all wrong, that me as a person was wrong and he never bothered to ask about anything to do with my country. That he had it so ingrained about western life - we all are alcoholic, slutty, pig eaters, who disrespect our parents and they woman have no morals!!!!! Is this really what they are taught?! It felt like I was on a "reward" system, that if I did something or said something he liked he would be nicer to me. I didn't like it, I am not a dog with a master. I don't need to be treated like a naughty child who was given the silent treatment for days or verbal abuse.

We had a huge argument just before Christmas, I had started reading the koran and approved hadiths when we got "back together" (I had intially looked before, found a site which I wont advertise here, giving advice against non muslim women marrying muslim men, I wish I had paid more attention to it, thier stories mirror mine in the end!) and I was asking him about islam. He would say I was disrespectful, that I didn't understand islam etc. (I think I saw a post on here somewhere about the common excuses muslims make, "You don't understand islam" "You don't know arabic" "it was common at the time" etc I have heard every single one.) I said if its a religion for all mankind, why would it be hard to understand? Why does the "rules" in islam go completely in contrast to my culture and traditions? How can it be for all man kind, when it pretty much is the rules of the middle east at that time? I used examples and verses, but instead of looking at the verses and trying to explain it, he verbally assaulted me. Basically how could I question the koran, its perfect and if I find a fault, I am wrong cause the koran can't be. But it is wrong. I read it as a person who clearly knew nothing about islam before and I was horrified. There are some things as a human being you just can't ignore, and I struggle to understand anyone who reads the koran can say how beautiful it is, and my heart sinks everytime I see someone try to defend it. He asked how I would feel if he called my sister a whore? I said none of them are, but what is your point? He said he was protecting his prophet in the same way I would protect my family. At that exact moment, I knew he was gone. He was dead to me. He once me I was a feminist and I just wouldn't listen. I wouldn't even say I was a feminist, I am an equalist/a humamist. I said I didn't want a man who loves to have power over me, who wants to bully and control me and who thinks he is totally justified in his bad treatment of me. He basically replied he wanted a woman to obey his rules. I sent him the Faithfreedom link, he couldn't understand it as it wasn't in Turkish. I told him what Ali Sina accused mohammed of and he said he is dishonest. He did ask for the link again but as I said he wouldn't have understood anything as his English is not as good as he thinks.

So a man who has no idea about love and empathy wanted to control my every move as if I couldn't run my own life. That didn't realise for 30 years before I met him, my life was fine and I was never raped or sexually assaulted because of the way I dressed or that I didn't cover my hair. That the only men who ever commented on my hair or neck (?!) were actually muslims. That in my world woman are NOT responsible for the thoughts or actions of men. That men in my country, don't want to control women and if they do, its called abuse. That the majority of us use our conscience in daily life, something I fear he lacked. And no one try to tell me that what he was doing to me was not islam, imams, muslim sites were telling me much worse.

I couldn't have been any more loving, faithful, loyal, caring, compromising or compassionate than I was. I did not go out drinking all the time, I did not have sex with every man I was ever alone with and over the years there was lots (so yes, satan isn't your third person, people can actually control themselves! And friends can mean actually just that - friends of the opposite sex!) And still it wasn't good enough. What he actually thinks of me, is almost the complete opposite to what I am. I truly believe he is a mixture of a psychopath, sociopath and a narcissist. I did not ever deserve the sheer contempt he showed me.

My parting gift to him was alisina.org as I saw that can be translated in to Turkish. But no I don't believe he will look, but I did my best.

I have made it as short as I could, I have left a lot out but I think you can tell from my post just how bad it was. He has psychologically damaged me in ways I hope you can understand. So I am picking up the pieces while he has not been affected at all, I am bad, he is good etc.

Ali Sina, I salute you and I hope you succeed in your mission. The day when the world is human first, is the day I long for.

[Ibn Rushd]

You are right, your story does sound like thousands of others. I feel sorry for all of you who came from a background where you were duped about the "peaceful" nature of Islam.

Are you in a safe place where he can't abduct you?

[Syk]

We were definately duped. People are starting to open their eyes a bit now, but we still have the non muslims who defend them. I used to be one of them, until I researched for myself.

I am safe, miles away from him now. And he is completely blocked on everything as well. From the moment he told me his 'religion' was more important than his family, I'm wasn't completely convinced that I wouldn't see him on the news in years to come!

[Ibn Rushd]

I forgot to add that I too was duped, during university. But during that time I started to see that there was something wrong with both Islam and the academics. I'm just so glad that sites like FFI were around in the post-9/11 world to learn the truth though. I initially had found Ibn Warraq's site which had a lively message board, that I lived at for over 2 years until it was shut down.

Glad to hear that he can't hurt you right now. Hopefully that is the "end" of the "relationship".

I hope you have a good time on the forum here. We seem to have an extremely active muslim member at the moment, but he is limited to one-word answers. I usually try to bring up modern scholarship on the origins of Islam.

[Syk]

Are you a ex muslim or an ex muslim convert? Or maybe a third option of never being one?

I have been having a good time on the forum and I am so glad to see how knowledgable people are, I'm adding to my knowledge everyday thanks you to you guys on here. You really do seem to know your stuff!

Yes he can't hurt me now, I definately wont hear from him again even if he wanted to, I am the enemy! So he's gone and taken 4 years of my life with him But I'm free and away from the controlling, moodiness and the total double standards!!

In your experience here, who are the most kind of ex muslim members here - the muslim from birth or the converts?

I'll look out for the active muslim member, see if I can spot him with his one word answers

[StrongLove]

Sorry to hear about your misadventures in islam. I'm glad that you escaped. I've heard similar stories so many times that you can clearly discern a pattern. muslim micro-patterns within the family & macro-patterns within the society. The inability to objectively analyze anything to do with islam is absolutely ubiquitous.

[Ibn Rushd]

I'm an ex-muslim convert. I don't know if there is a difference btw the ex-muslim converts or born muslim apostates. I never paid that much attention.

I put my testimony up on the wiki page: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Ibn_Rushd_(former_Muslim)

[Syk]

The pattern of my experience seems to be very, very common. At first so "normal", then slowly but surely strive to control your every move, until you have no choice but to surrender or run. I stayed to try and show him another way to live, but I couldn't. And as strange as it sounds, I feel like a failure.

You are right in your analysis Stronglove, pretty much all seem to be moulded to the same specifications, rather akin to a cult. Any question I asked for clarification on, he was unable to answer properly, and when I wouldn't accept a weak answer, that is when the personal attacks started happening. I was called stupid on more than one occasion. They are taught not to ask questions and if they do, speak to an imam who can feed them enough rubbish to appease them. Because deep down they all want to believe it.

I read your story Ibn, I'm glad you managed leave, especially armed with the knowledge you have. They do lay it on very thick about it all being beautiful, and peaceful and the most logical (!) religion. The professor you mentioned (the one who implied hitler was a hero) horrified me. I was only asking about the muslim born or converts as a curiousity of mine. For example every muslim I have spoken to doesn't (that they openly admit to) have doubts, is completely convinced the koran is right. Yet I am seeing there are ex-muslims and I think I just wondered if the people that leave islam always had some doubts or whether there was something in them that triggered doubts later in life?

Another horrifying exchange with him was when I was trying to get his feelings on a tragedy that happend in the UK. Where a soldier Lee Rigby was hacked to death in broad daylight by two muslims converts. I'm sure you will have heard about that. And even after explaining that someone videoed him on their phone talking about the koran and shouting allah akbar etc, he said terrorists hijack the religion, yet a few minutes later said to me "We don't know why he was killed". I think the guy with the meat cleaver and blood still on his hands was very specific in why the soldier was killed. And that is when I realised he doesn't "feel" like we feel. He reduced it down to "muslims" and "non muslims". He thinks everything that happens to a muslim is islamaphobe but when it happens to a non muslim, they deserved it. My brain could explode trying to understanding his thinking...!

My aunt is an ex muslim (from Iran) and I had a very interesting chat with her recently. She said growing up, she knew she could never marry a muslim man, they have a different mind set and are very controlling in nature. Then when she met my uncle she knew one of them had to change and she wanted it to be her. She is a different person to the one I first met all those years ago. Gone is the timid woman who was scared a man would see her hair, and was replaced with a confident, outgoing woman who loves fashion!

[StrongLove]

I believe what you are referring to is denial. Though most people do not recognize this in muslims because it is often used when referring to drug or alcohol addiction.

http://psychology.about.com/od/theories ... mech_3.htm

Denial functions to protect the ego from things that the individual cannot cope with. While this may save us from anxiety or pain, denial also requires a substantial investment of energy. Because of this, other defenses are also used to keep these unacceptable feelings from consciousness.

In many cases, there might be overwhelming evidence that something is true, yet the person will continue to deny its existence or truth because it is too uncomfortable to face.

Denial can involve a flat out rejection of the existence of a fact or reality. In other cases, it might involve admitting that something is true, but minimizing its importance. Sometimes people will accept reality and the seriousness of the fact, but they will deny their own responsibility and instead blame other people or other outside forces.

[Syk]

Is Faithfreedom down? I've not been able to get on for a couple of days, I had to come through Alisina.org.

Yes, that seems completely spot on. I can't begin to understand being so brainwashed, that I could no longer tell right from wrong. Where I had to justify cruel and vicious acts, because I've been told to. The truth can sometimes hurt, but the truth can also set you free.

[Ibn Rushd]

Yes, we were attacked, and then on Tues it happened again until today.

[sum]

I am not surprised that FFI was attacked considering the posts by uncung which make a muslim look a complete fool and at the same time show Islam to be beyond reason, false and evil. uncung has done FFI a great favour and that is why the muslims want to bring FFI down and save uncung Islam and Muhammad from warranted ridicule.

sum

[Syk]

Its good that FFI is still a threat though and people are scared of it. uncung seems quite common of the muslim mind, they will swear black is white and think we are evil and hostile because we criticise it!

[Firebird1]

I'm sorry for your pain after so many years in a broken relationship and trust you are now healing. Fortunately your relationship produced no children. It may help you feel relief to read the book "Not Without My Daughter," the traumatic and true story of an American girl who marries an Iranian physician in the States. After their daughter is born he takes them to live with his family in Iran and undergoes the same brutal personality shift and as your fiancé under the pressures of his family and Islam. She is criticized, beaten, starved and eventually imprisoned within the household. A film by the same title was also produced.

Many years ago when I first met my late husband in a dance club that served alcohol, his companion was an engineer co-worker, a Muslim from India. We double-dated with the Muslim fellow and his non-Muslim American girlfriend. I learned they had an infant son together and she was expecting him to marry her soon. Lo and behold, wedding invitations arrived and to our shock he was marrying a Muslim Indian girl living in the States. It was an arranged marriage! He had been living a duplicitous life. I pitied the poor out-of-wedlock son.

Be thankful that through your own good sense you have escaped such horrors. The wife of one of the evil Tsarnaev brothers - the infamous Boston Bombers - had foolishly converted and is now a widow with a child burdened with a legacy of infamy.

[Syk]

Thank you. Yes I am now healing, and realising just how much of a lucky escape I had! I couldn't agree with you more, I am thankful we didn't have children. I know if it was up to him, we would have been married quickly and he was desperate to start a family, I'm glad I stuck my ground and wanted to wait. How much worse would this be going through a divorce and custody battle?!

I did read that book, and for some reason you know its bad and horrific, but we were conditioned to believe men like Betty's husband were the minority. Its not until I was in this situation that I realised just how easy it would be to fall in to that life like she had. I can only imagine the pain she went through.

I feel for that girl you talked about, my situation was bad enough, but to go through all that just for them to go and marry someone who was arranged for them!! I really hope she is doing good now, and like me realises just how lucky an escape she had!!

I find it hard as a white british woman, to comprehend how any of us could convert, knowing the life we have, knowing what women in the past went through to make sure we have the freedoms we do, just to give it up. To not realise you can live a modest life without being told how to act or how to dress. It makes me so sad.

Again, thank you for your message. Its been nice to hear from you.

[idesigner1]

I'm an ex-muslim convert. I don't know if there is a difference btw the ex-muslim converts or born muslim apostates. I never paid that much attention.

I put my testimony up on the wiki page: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Ibn_Rushd_(former_Muslim)

Dear Ibn,

I read your testimony again It says your faith lasted for two months.During those two months you were almost possessed by obsessive thought about killing infidels.

Did you ever took shahad in presence of other Muslims or did any muslim ever acknowledge you as faithful? Did they accepted you as muslimmah?

If answer is no, you are not an apostate.

[idesigner1]

Dear Syk,

Women are lot more gullible, trusting and caring when they love a man. They often bend backward to please goofiest faith of their partner. She may even follow head hunter's religion if she gives heart to head hunter.It is in their gene. May be this comes from natural nurturing instinct but in long run can be very destructive for human race.

Look at numerous very destructive, suicidal sects. There are lots of female members there. They will stand by their Guru till last and proclaim it on death bed.

Mohemmed had lots of female followers and they sacrificed lot for his faith.

[Syk]

You are right idesigner1, I had this overwhelming urge to make it work, that things would eventually be different! Well they were different at the end but not in a way I ever thought! I tried my hardest, I became someone I didn't like. But all through it, I just knew islam was never going to be for me. You are right about the cults, they become so obessed with guru's/partners that they change in to a shadow of their former selfs and lifes are destroyed.