Too late to leave?

[Nosuperstition]

These people don't care about you, they only care about turning you against your own people and your fellow Muslims. So that they can see a competing belief system destroyed. They will do to you, like what they did to the north-African tirailleurs. After they've used you to fight their competitors, they will throw you away like trash.

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14642&p=194192&hilit=competing#p194192

There are great points in the Islamic philosophy copied from Zoroastrianism and Christianity however the greatest hindrance to Islam might lie in the core practice of circumcision rather than anything else.The greatest strength of Islam lies in unusually high birth rates as females are not sent to work.

[Nosuperstition]

Show me a single race-based organization, previous to the 20th century, in the entire islamic world. Pan-arabism has it's roots in colonialism and european ideologies.

/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14642&p=194246#p194246

Can you really say that all the Pan-Arabic nationalists are not muslims?Can you really say that the Arab caste marauders in Darfur are not believing muslims who might believe that whatever sins they do accrue due to the murder and mayhem done towards their fellow muslims might be cleansed off by penance and saying prayers in the holy month of Ramadan which is the muslim equivalent of Catholic Lent?

[Exene]

Can you really say that all the Pan-Arabic nationalists are not muslims?

Google Aflaq, as in Michel, not the insurance company.

[Raj_Flower]

You can't leave and live.

We all know that's a reason for its continued success.

The terror it instils. The mere utterance of the word kafir in a room stops conversations pricks every ones ears up.

It's not easy for me. I'm moderately educated but not in a narrow profession. Just a general manager businessman type. Not easy to walk out and be able to settle somewhere else.

But risking this little livelihood is one thing but bigger is placing my kids in danger.

Say I came out. "That kafirs kids" name calling is not a problem but they could be dragged by the ear and into a nikah in a bearded guys house.

That's if I be selfish and just walkout. Maybe that won't happen.

It's my fault I'm in this mess. Should have been stronger all those years ago.
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Earlier just chatting to the wife and said something not correct according to Islam. Along the lines of praying will make it happen and I said "yeah right"

She went into a list of times I have been called wrong by her cousin, friend x, friend y.

She said I should read some books.

As it happens I just started reading the god delusion.
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Irrational beliefs have not and won't take hold in my children. We have little talks in what they must not say to their mother.
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this lady is fine- cooks, cleans, sex is a bit boring, Generally look after me. It's the conversation I miss. Not only that Islam centers around her world and atheism around mine but cultural. I thought she would pick up some of British culture but she has never.

I absolutely love talking to women at work and them accepting my jokes and talks about gods. It makes me so happy that I fall in love them just for this!
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Ill keep u posted with my ramblings. Topic has got a bit hijacked.

U r my only contact with the apostate world. There is some apostate Meetups. But not venturing out yet.

Convince her would be impossible. I couldn't explain scientific method and establishing proof and truth. Stories of Mohamed and Qurans inaccuracies and man made-ness she is going to say I have read from the shaitan.

She likely will say believe in it for the moral upbringing of the children. She will say the way I am behaving will lead them to marrying kaffirs. Do I have a problem with that? They can be gay for all I care.

[Raj_Flower]

You know what? Sorry for my rambling again

I just wanted love and understanding.

A partner(s) male female, lovers who are with me.

Siblings are close. Children are close too.

I am not Moslem. Never have been. My name is Moslem.

I hate that so much !

[Newmember1973]

HI Raj,

Tough situation you are in, I am also with a muslim man, and we have 2 kids. It is really hard because there are kids involved. If your kids are old enough to understand things, then perhaps you can talk it over with them. My kids are still in elementary school and I talk to them all the time, try to educate them the right way. I am not sure what type of person your wife is, what would she do if you tell her all of this?? then her family getting involved. I would let my kids know how I feel and what is going on, so they are aware..have talks with them all the time...are they following islam as well? do they believe in it. You need to educate them..as long as they can understand you, will make things much easier. Must be hard living a lie...I am not living a lie, I chose not to convert, not to marry him, raise my kids vegetarians, they don't practice Islam..it wasn't easy, and still not easy..very tough..sometimes I used to think it would be better to live a lie..but my heart won't allow me to..
Good luck.

[Raj_Flower]

In recent times just feel lonely. She can be with me but I'm on my own.

Breaking up. Easy hard?

Everyone been good on here and offered sensible advice.

I want the kids to do well. They certainly are doing well and on a good trajectory.

They know what I am. Wife says lets pray. I say to Ganesh or The sun or Diana. I tell them to keep laughing at other religions and give them plenty of science books. So winning on that front.

I don't have transferable skills so relying on business so waiting for the moment before I can "come out"

Kids are old enough to understand. But u know they shouldn't ever have to choose between a mother and father. Neither the son or daughter should be divided up like this.

Been talking to friends in various scenarios where I can.

It is a crazy situation. I don't know what to do.

I really wish I was in a more open environment. But for the time being this is my lot.

Life only comes round once. I wish I wasn't stuck like this.

I get upset. I try to smile.

Atleast I'm not an idiot that believes in a stupid religion.

[Intelligent lad]

hi Raj,
Have u shown her the verse " beat her if you fear disobedience" ?

[Nosuperstition]

hi Raj,
Have u shown her the verse " beat her if you fear disobedience" ?

Promise of eternal life in Paradise,fear of Allah and everlasting hell-fire punishment and obidience towards Allah would overweigh any of her personal concerns against wife beating.She will endure beating for disobidience if it is as per Allah's wishes.

[Raj_Flower]

I'll tell ask her if she thinks I am kind, inteligent, sensible, good husband all these years, good with the children, helpful around the house, have I ever beat her...

Then I will tell her that about the hubble telescope. What it can see and how much awe there is in what it is seeing.

Then I explain evolution to her. How it could have been without the need to have a creator.

Then i will explain how civilization developed and why they had a need for a god beliefs. How there are many gods.

Then I will explain to her that any god is made up.

With respect to all of the above truths that god would choose himself to be revealed in the middle east after some hundred of thousands years of human existence to some illiterate middle eastern people is simply so pathetic.

I'm not that highly educated but I feel much more intelligent that i do not believe in any god or superstition. I accept only science as that is truth. i imagine that I have eyes and believers in any religion are blind.

Seriously when u muslim people say something about this mohamed, this in quran, that in hadith, u sound incredibly stupid to me. its the same with hindus with the dots, the jews with the wailing wall, christians with the crosses. Crazy.

I have contempt for u believers.

Wake up. Smell the coffee.

I have problems with coming out; u evil bullies with threats to apostates.

[Raj_Flower]

I'm so sad and angry today folks.

Life is sh!t.

Islam has made my life horrible for many years.

I just can't get rid.

[Ozes]

I'm so sad and angry today folks.

Life is sh!t.

Islam has made my life horrible for many years.

I just can't get rid.

Sorry about that, I hope you will find a source of strength.

[Raj_Flower]

Hi Everyone,

Been a while since I posted.

A few little things things happen.

We were having a row and I said "babe, i'll tell you whats bothering me all these months...i am a kaffir"

She said we shouldnt have ever got married.

Quickly went on to other topics.

I'm coping fine. I have a little drink all the time in the late evenings.

I get time to watch atheist stuff on Youtube.

Made a more sensible Facebook.

Just until late October that I will be able to "come out". Thats if I still want to.

So much against apostates!

You know the other thing which I never mentioned is that an apostate would find it so much easier if he did not have his parents close by/ alive. What I mean is apostasy would cause embarrassment and dishonor for them. This is a barrier to me or not? Time will tell

[Ariel]

Good luck Raj_Flower, and be careful . I hope your wife will also leave Islam. It would make your life less difficult.