A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first bloodRe: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Dear Professor Kai or is it Dr? Anyways
You you havent, i have showed you more enough to your so called Christians where pagans but dont worry we will get to this soon enough.
Yes Christians are good at cherry picking.
From the white washed book?
This comes from a guy who belives there is a historical Jesus.
Give me the passages and lets set the puzzle.
Ok Kai im going to respect you views.
Who came out in the end? Hmm?
So why are you crying about their phds? ¨ The same coptic christians that belive Jesus was a homosexual?
Those came later, i told you "Christians" that follow Paul are not followers of Jesus.
You going to bring me the bear hug hadith and cry about it. But we will deal with this later.
We will bring this up later when i we be dabting the Sun God ohh im sorry Jesus Christ.
I tought i told you kai when you accused me of lying on me being banned. I dont lie.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.icsfp.com%2FMedia%2FDocuments%2FTheOrientalists-Part-6.rtf&ei=4HDzT4D2GoKJhQfYuK3IBg&usg=AFQjCNE6-mGSWoH5gIhf-tFVOShHhW7a2g&sig2=pguKpQN6MnAMANo-aQ3cew Encyclopaedia Judaica p. 1108.
There where indeed Jews who belived he was son of God Kai, and no one objected to this matter Kai. No1 objected to the matter Kai. And claiming there was no jews left is silly. Matter infact a google search made me find this video hmm.
That true, its surah 9. That does not change the fact, that those Jews that converted (half of the Rabbis in Mecca). Did not question this at ALL. If this was false this could have killed Islam. It didnt.
No, when you read the surah it makes perfect sense.
Not in Mecca.
Wewill get to this later.
Hahahahahaha  The next thing you be saying is that Paul wrote Hebrews right?
Save it till our real debate Kai. I dont want your excuses that you already showed me this before.
Yes he exposed Christians.
Who knows.
Yes
Inshallaha
Third of three is talking about something else Kai.
No they dont Kai, Kaaba is not an Idol.
Yes Paul said anything to get followers.
It just as "weak" as your Josephus.
Every seen an American Dollar?
It an typo. Dont belive me scroll up.
Christians are pagans.
Nope,i belive he had sevral debates with Anis Shorrosh ( a big clown ). Can you tell me which 1 you had an issue with?
Nope, which book did you have a problem with?
Jews did a good job destroying the wishfull Christians.
Nope this came much much later and was stolen from all the sun gods who was born in the 25th December which i will into later.
But why would they destroy it. it makes no sense.
True, much much more than they claim.
I cant wait, im going to enjoy this.
Yes ye the famous Christian excuse issue with the translations.
I dont really call Mushin as an translations but more of a tafsir. And i never heard of the other translation you told me about. I tought around 74 would be the newiest. My fault i guess.
There is nothing wrong with a Qibla.
Sleep well Kai
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
No need to patronize me Ghaith
Yes i have-
Not nearly as good as muslims
That's right yos- and the above is coming from a muslim guy who believes jesus was a myth.
Set the puzzle????
If you count today- the west.
I never cried about their phds- i just stated they have phds and know how the classical arabic generally work- that doesnt stop their biases from coming into fruition though.
Now your just being silly. morton smith was though. No copts dont believe jesus was a homosexual-
Sure they are. if that was the case then the ethiopian christians, copts syrian christians and christian arabs of najran and tabuk they were all pauline christians Uppermost to the jews ( as quran teaches)would not have ever been classified as ahlekitab.
Who said i was going to bring that particular hadith in. despite the fact that the hadee is classified as SAHIH GHARAIB or STRANGE but SOUND And despite the fact that osama posted a unbiased muslim "DR" to translate the hadee!!! this Dr translated it wrong- no wonder osama didnt seem to be the one to translate it. LOL Muhammad was fully naked when he gave that big bear hug.according to that hadith. . Well, the son of man was another title foretold about the coming messiah in daniel etc.. I
Well, if you are not lying then you have great misundertandings on both counts.
Well according to the muslim al-baidawi http://books.google.com/books?id=JherW50tVyAC&pg=PA114&dq=uzair+ezra+islam&as_brr=3&ei=_BkvR5WeAoKAsgPUzKChCQ&sig=5i1Fiq01TVLkK6jsU-IHaogRvng#v=onepage&q=uzair%20ezra%20islam&f=false It was a muslim tradition that ezra was resurrected after being dead for one hundred years like the supposed yemeni jew says in that video  yemeni jews like any other jews dont use islamic commentaries as a basis for their religion Ghaith. and tell me one thing Ghaith? when your own sources say the sect of jews who did this became extinct- how did one of these extinct jews suddenly appear on pal-talk?? also check out this link http://www.islambasics.com/view.php?bkID=80&chapter=12 Ghaith, i know you said ibn kathir is outdated but he relays a story about ezra being ressurected from the dead "after resurrection- he rode on his donkey and entered his native place. But the people did not recognize him, nor did his household, except the maid, who was now an old blind woman. He prayed to God to cure her blindness and she could see again. He meets his son who recognized him by a mole between his shoulders and was older than him. Ezra then led the people to locate the only surviving copy of Torah as the remaining were burnt by Nebuchadnezzar. He renovated the Torah to the Children of Israel" - In fact Ghaith, Ibn Kathir mentions that the sign in the phrase "And that We may make of thee a sign unto the people" was that he was younger than his children.- Jews have never claimed Ezra was revived from the dead Ghaith. Funny thing is yemeni jews believe ezra cursed them because they didnt go back to jerusalem when ezra summoned them back after first diaspora- so how on earth would they ever consider ezra as the son of god. Muhammad clearly made this assertion so as to claim pure monotheism for the Muslims alone, in his day
Now that is the encyclopedia judaica quote i was talking about earlier- Hirschberg simply qoutes Ibn hazm who lived 300 years after mo died- he also never lived in yemen. and provided no evidence that jews ever believed ezra was son of god- ibn hazm simply made the unfounded claim because the quran says so. Another problem with this yos- the quran is making a general statement about the jews saying this just like the christians about the messiah- which is true about the christians- It doesnt say some jews but virtually all christians believe messiah is the son of god- No it says Jews say ezra is THE son of GOD and the christian SAY THE MESSIAH is the son of GOD . That is ridiculous- the banu qurayza and the jews of khaybar and other jews of medina couldnt object to it - because they were either dead or paying half of their produce to the muslims. that is a silly counter argument my dear Ghaith. Maimonides did in 12th century he said the muslims lied about jews saying ezra is the son of god . There wasnt very many in the hijaz
Yeah HMMM i already discussed this joseph guy above. Tha
Show me sources that say half of rabbis in MECCA converted? The banu qurayza didnt kill islam nor did the najrani christians exposing muhammad.
No it doesnt - when you put the other pieces of quranic puzzle about imrans wife birthing mary - when you take a look at torah passages it always refered to mary the prophetess as the sister of aaron and not the sister of moses even though this earlier mary was sister of moses as well. muhammad got confused and got caught with his pants down.
Are not those sources outdated Ghaith??
Im Sure we will.
he might have- that is debatable-
Those arent excuses Ghaith it is FACT.
Noo [
No
It works both ways yos- how can muslims set their minds at ease when only a fraction of the available mss were studied!
No it isnt.
Yes it is Ghaith
Mo didnt
My josephus??
The thirteen levels in pyramid represented the thirteen colonies Ghaith
Then so are muslims
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
I had issue with some of anishs arguments- as well as one of anishs books as well.
You should ask which book did i not have a problem with- which my answer would be 0
This is coming from a guy who believes jesus is the messiah and who also confirmed the torah zabur and prophets
No it didnt- it was not stolen- if anything around it was the other way around.- decenber 25 did indeed come much later
When you realize the kinf of things the green grocer qarmations believed it makes perfect sense why they would destroy it- they believed haj was superstitious as well as the rituals of haj.
Huh no
Well, leviticus describes the rabbit as a cud chewer, because they not only appear to chew cud they eat their defecants or digested food (the soft pellet) so this would be easy for any israelite hunter to distinguish the rabbit as unclean.
It's not an excuse the king james was written in 1611 (complete) unicorn did not exist in any hebrew literature nor did a baraq!
Of course Hilali and khan is a translation of quran they used alot of interpolations from tafsir in many verses. it's still a translation
Fair enough
It's not the direction you pray too Ghaith that matters.
Thank you Ghaith i did. even after the holiday~ you sleep well too Ghaith.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello Kai, how are you doing. Family is okey? I know havent replied the last days but i currently in Morocco and have been quiet busy.
No not at all, i was just seeing if you would spit out what your proffesion was. but i guess you didnt take the bait. Im going to make this short and simple because if we keep going this way we are not going to get to the debate. Christians are not followers of christ. Real scholars of Islam dont consider Christianity a religion and its not a religion. Its a cult Paul created. Paul couldnt destroy the "true" Christianity so he decided to destroy it from within. Christianity is a retarded religion, you have to be stupid and retarded to belive in it. That Jesus appeared to someone that was killing Christians, that he Paul never showed any signs of prophethood, Paul didnt even care what his followers did as long as they followed him. Paul allowed eating of unclean meat, beastilaity, witchcraft, sodomy, work on the Sabbath. And tricked Christians into beliving Salvation is faith. According to Paul, Hitler will go to heaven while Ghandi will burn. To top it all off the other anti-christ Constantine came and ripped it a part and introduced more sun worship into. And no 25th december didnt come much later. This was known before the Pharao and Judaism. Sun birthday is 25th December. Constantin Declared the Roman Sun-day to be the Sabbath. Hijacked the pagan Cross, and introduced idol worship. Just visit your Daddy and Mommys crib and you will se how their cross is different from your protestant brothers cross. The cross is a rip off Paganis. The bible says Jesus was hanged on a tree, not wood as you try to alter it but a tree. Xylon. I know you well now Kai and you will bring forth a verse, you must know that Christian where more educated than Jews in Arabia in the time of Muhammad. Like Waraga ibn Nuffal. And Jews where backstaber and insects and tried to backstab Muhammad and they deserved to be beheaded as leaving Muslims alone again 9 other clans. They even poisioned Muhammad but allah protected his slave. Deep inside you know Muhammad is a prophet but you try to cover this with minor dust of fabricated hadiths and out of context verses. Im sorry if you feel this as an insult but Christianity is disgusthing and have destroyed the true image of Jesus.
Who got the holy land(appart from Jerusalem) And the war is far from over Kai.
You want me to give you some coptic sources (Secret Gospel of Mark) which includes Jesus being involved in Homosexual activity?
Nope they are not. Kai since you talk about the Quran day and night. Why dont you give me some passages to all your arguments downwards including Mary the sister of Haron every argument you set forthand i will adress it. As for Ezra. You cannot debunk this issue since there is no evidence. I can because no Jews came forth, and no converts questioned him. As for the Rabbi claim. I have driving hours tomorow and go to sleep il look it up for you. As i am hoping you give me some toughts on the vatican claim as i didnt find much information about it.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
i adress the other issues tomorow such as the bear hug and illuminati pyramid and Joseph the yemeni jew.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Im doing just fine Ghaith thanks for asking- we all have obligations that prevent us from posting- i understand.
That's fine then- i am neither a DR nor a professor- i do hold a bachelors and i did take a semester in world religion- with that being said islam has been a religion/cult that i studied- it has become a hobby of mine over the years ever since i dated a arab nonpracticing muslimah back in my college days
In other words it's time to get NASTY Okay i will answer segments from you paragraph one at a time:
This is 100% unadulterated hyperbole .
Well, if you consider osama abdullah a scholar then i suppose so- thing is Ghaith this is simply not true- Most real muslim scholars from early islam till today consider christians ahlekitab even salafists- even the likes of moiz amjad and most importantly your qur'an
This is wishful thinking on the part of many MODERN MUSLIMS especially dawahgandists and apologists because they think they can explain away the differences of the bible with the quran if that were true .
You dont seem to realize the implications of what you are saying- if that is true, then the followers of jesus would have never been uppermost over the disbelievers now would they ever be SUPERIOR to those that disbelieved- remember, allahs words can never change 6:115 and 18:27 come to mind and virtually all of your ulema agree that this not only applies to the qur'an but to the previous scripture as well.
Purely subjective Ghaith...just as islam is a retarded religion, you have to be stupid and retarded to believe in it" see how that works? .
So now you don't believe in forgiveness? another double standard Ghaith ? paul did say he signed off on orders for executions and he persecuted christians- but he thought he was doing Gods work- the christian response is jesus knew paul was sincere and knew what he would do when he appeared to him.
Pure nonsense
Paul allowed gentiles in he pointed out that the law was in ones heart same as jesus taught- btw the quran even teaches that jesus brought a new covenant and lifted burdens of the law including foods and the sabbath- dont you know this Ghaith? ,
Absurd- its very clear that paul never allowed those things- first i will post bible verses from torah then pauls epistles Leviticus 18:20 "'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Proverbs 7:27 Her house is a highway to the grave, leading down to the chambers of death. . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acts 20:32 "Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Galatians 5:21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ephesians 5:5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Timothy 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine Sexual immorality as deciphered in bible text includes sodomy and beastiality Ghaith -
Even your ulema agree with that
That is based on your misunderstanding of the entire nt "cherry picking" .
No , according to paul there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust acts 24:15 "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.". Hitler believed he was a messiah and his works proved he had no faith remember paul taught that the works would be the RESULT OF FAITH- and no according to christian belief (at least most) only GOD knows if ghandi will be ressurected. remember ressurection of just and the unjust? . This is ridiculous No for jesus birthday it came MUCH LATER paul never believed this- show me one verse that says celeberate jesus birth on december 25th anywhere or any other day for that matter.
Btw it wasnt constantine it happened AFTER constantine died in around 350 by pope julius 2
Ha ha It amazes me how much JW watchtower material some of these dawahgandists use Well, the cross is seen as a symbol of recognizing jesus new covenant.
Ghaith do you still call your parents mommy and daddy My parents especially my mom was devout jws, they dont believe jesus died on a cross they believe he died on a stake- However , it is a fact that romans often crucified whoever they labelled criminals.
Since when did watchtower magazines become HADITH?? LMAOOO not a tree but a stake . , You obviously didnt know me well enough
true because they were UPPERMOST and SUPERIOR to the jews maybe thats one reason 3:55 and 61:14 came into fruition Ghaith. .
Were they zionists Ghaith?
Your crawling into ibn ishaq ibn hisham and al tabari territory again!
So muhammad was poisoned for four years huh many muslims dont believe this story Ghaith... I know how hadith system works really well Ghaith...prove the Naked bearhugging hadee is MAUDU
To an extent i agree but not in the way you are saying. [
Im not talking israel im talking OVERALL
I am very familiar with that story Ghaith i gave you a hint about morton smith- and no it wasnt coptic christians it was a late 2nd century sect in egypt not copts.
Yes they are
I am familiar with all the muslim arguments regarding this issue this will take pages in itself- so i will procrastinate for now.
I have showed you that there is evidence that jews have always found it blasphemy for someone to be called THE SON OF GOD that is why they killed jesus afterall. Ghaith that is ludicrous to say no jews came forth- Maybe they are in those mss papyrii in egypt that DR petra is looking at I
Anytime
The vaticans claim on muhammad?
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
emember you have to first prove that the freemasons are illuminati and prove that joseph is really a yemeni jew who believes the talmud is holy and that jews can steal from goyyim!
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hmm so it has nothing to do with you everyday job?
They are not followers of Christ but followers of Paul.
His not a scholar but he does quiet a good job keeping this Christian internet evangelists down such as Shamoun, David Wood, Nabeel Qureshi , Christian_Prince, Silas, Ali Sina. And the rest of looney toons.
They are ahlekitab, they do have the scriptures. Doesnt change the fact Christianity is not a religion but Pauls Cult.
Paul was a liar.
Ive tought i already debunked this issue. Muslims are followers of Christ not the Christians.
I do, but i also belive in forgery
Jesus never tought that we should abonden the law Kai.
Its unsure if Paul wrote Colossian, and that a willsy translation of Galatians 5:21 you have there. Instead of orgies its suppose to be revelings. Lets have a look at 1 Timothy 1:10 Kai. for whoremongers, for those who defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. Nope Animals sex is ok in Christianity thanks to Paul. That is why its a retarded religion.
Is a polytheist just or unjust Kai? According to OT. Who is inspired by God 2 Tim 3:16. Hindus should be killed Exodus 22:20
Subahanalllah ya Kai. How do you know this, how do you know he didnt do.
Hmm didnt you just say
Also please give me some OT prophecies of Paul.
Im pretty sure it was Constatine. Maybe im wrong. I never heard it was Pope Julius the second?
Yes Im sure It had nothing to do with these  . 
I never made a claim of any of this  Paul was a Jew, he was to smart to make this dumb mistake when he was corrupting Christianity. It was the christians who added this pagan sources. When they where exposed their excuse was that Satan had a time machine and he went back in time and created the pagan dietys to make them similiar to Christ, or a similar excuse like that. Im sure you heard some of the excuses.
I dont really think there is a "mommy" childish way in Arabic. Atleast not that i am aware of.
hmm
i tought it was a Cross like "T" but than again what do i know.
Kai kai kai, i dont read any of that JW crap. JW and there leaders are just garbage. Matter infact one time i as sitting with some devouted Muslims with beard jalaba and the entire package you get the picture, and one of them was telling me about the time he was in Germany. He had no food or no money and was hungry and poor. So some JWs came to him gave him food shelter and such, they later tought him about their religion and told them it very similiar to Islam. And it gets funnier because they offered him Virgins. Yes they offered him a virgin wife. He told me he wasnt that devout at that time but he met a Woman who was studieng Islam and later she converted and than he became devout and they got married. So this JWs are some sneaky people and i would trust them or their magazines. Im sure the JWs are different where you live in the west than in Germany.
Honestly are you telling me you werent going to quote 5:60 ?
Lets have a look at Sahih and Mushin translation Sahih International [Mention] when Allah said, "O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you [in submission to Allah alone] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. Muhsin Khan And (remember) when Allah said: "O 'Iesa (Jesus)! I will take you and raise you to Myself and clear you [of the forged statement that 'Iesa (Jesus) is Allah's son] of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you (Monotheists, who worship none but Allah) superior to those who disbelieve [in the Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Quran] till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute." Mushin made a little mistake saying Injeel because the Injeel doesnt exist and the Taurat that exist today is a corrupted version of Ezras Torah. But it seems like this translators are in full agreement with my theory. Btw im a Shakir/Pickthall fan so i didnt look at this before now and found it funny that other people have the same thinking as me. Also i dont use Quran.com so i couldnt have slipped and looked. I mostly read the english version on Iquran on my android phone. 61:14 says children of Israel not Romans and Egytians or Koreans. As to Christians being smarter than the Jews in Arabia i have no problem with that. But as of today Christians are mostly retarded while the Jews are well readin their scriptures and i am a great great fan of the Jewish people and their Rabbis (non Zionist ofcourse).
No they where to stupid to be zionists.
Ok Kai. Be my guest. Give me the offical story.
Have a look at the chains Kai.
Do you honestly think that the most respected Man in Mecca and Medina at that time went around naked Kai? How about 23:5-6 Come on Kai dont be a biased islambasher and use simple logic.
We are different Kai. But me and you can agree and disagree and stay friends afterwards.
Uhh the west got in much much later.
Are you saying that Coptics and Arab Christians deny the secret gospel Kai?
Yes but this where Jews of Mecca/Medina.
Yes, the one that the Catholic churce invented Islam.
That would take ages. Btw the 13 layers are the 13 familles that includes Rockafeller, Rochild and Kennedy.
Just because Ezrason of god jews are extinct doesnt mean they eare extinct a fraction always survives. Im sure you are aware of non muslim sufis. also i request you give all the surah numbers and ayas to your claims you made and i give you a rebutal.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
It has everything to do with my everyday job
Paul was a follower of JESUS
Osama is a loon that even many muslim academics ignore-
That statement made NO sense yos- yes they do have the scriptures according to qur'an- but not you.
If paul was a liar then so was muhammad and allah- however, if paul was proved not to be a liar it would still show that mo and allah are liars.
No Ghaith you didnt debunk the issue at all- you cant paint a picture that a few followers of christ were killed off by paul then he came and corrupted the teachings it doesnt work with the said verses 3:55 and 61:14- according to muhammad and early muslim sources christians WERE MUSLIMS- just like the christian scribes in najran told mos companion that they already were muslims- because islam in arabic means submission to god
The fact that you believe muhammad was a true prophet proves that indeed Ghaith.
Jesus gave a full explanation of the law-matthew 5:17- 48 and jesus fulfilled it with his new covenant- that is christianity 101
This will be fun
whoremongers consists of adulterers and perverts- i do agree that homosexuals is used in the actual mss menstealer is actually slaver ἀνδραποδισταῖς andrapodistais is derived from the greek word for slave "andrapodon"
How on earth do you come up with that conclusion? ha haaa is this an argument of silence if that is the case show me the verse in quran that prohibits animal sex! If you don't show me the verse- then you must concede that islam is a retarded religion.
It depends yos- is he or she a polytheist out of ignorance- the israelites and jews under the law knew better- that is why if they became a idolater in Gods theocracy "israel" they would have to be killed . Ghaith im glad you brought that verse up isnt that the verse where paul writes to timothy saying" all scripture is inspired by god to be used in correction and reproof? That verse proves paul never contradicted jesus teachings-first of all- that verse not only means The OT but the gospel as well even the writings of the apostles that existed at time. with that in mind most christians understand the verse to mean that you use the torah prophets and gospel as guidance. the torah provides numerous examples of what happens when you disobey gods commands (ten commandments) this is what i would have told you with conviction when i was a JW
No Ghaith only if an israelite became a hindu he/she would be killed. the israelites were suroounded by nations that worshipped idols and they only fought them if they (israel) were attacked first- in fact numbers 31 is a perfect example actually i believe numbers 22-31 shows the whole story as to how a tribe of midianites and moabites tried to destroy israel by using balaams advice to use their women to commit adultery with the isrealite men to take them off the path of the law- balaam knew that if the israelites began having relations with the midianite women they would also commit idolatry and god would not protect them. hence they could be destroyed militarily In any case i digress- the verse you mention in exodus is talking about israel ONLY ISRAEL they can never worship other gods
Great you agree
Well, first of all jesus taught that if you believe in two commandments love your neighbor as yourself and love god with all of your heart you will not only be obeying all of his commands but you would never do any of the things hitler done thats how i know Ghaith. now if hitler had a sudden moment of remorse before he died then God will judge him. That goes with anybody.
Yep i sure did Ghaith and i explained it above.
Why would i do that dear Ghaith paul was not the messiah and never claimed to be. His purpose was to propogate the GOSPEL or teachings of jesus which were propesied in the OT.
Sorry about that- pope julius 2 existed in 1600s i meant pope julius the first. As for the images of crosses you posted- the focus shouldnt be on the crosses themselves but they represent jesus death and self sacrifice for the atonement of all that is why catholic and orthodox christians use them of course when i was a JW they never even used them (stake or cross) at all because they believed it was a form of idolatry- and i do understand why But then again muslims have their own issues regarding idolatry not just the black stone and kaabah but this
Hmmm . Why would he care Ghaith -he killed all of the true christians (according to you) so he had nothing to worry about and that is what i told you earlier the christmas came MUCH LATER your muslim sources read the watchtowers well.
Yep and while satan was at it he created the crescent moon to infest islam
Maybe you called her mommy using english? oh well
Im using an argument as a jw would because that is what i know -however im mainly using the jw argument because it is the jw idea about the cross being a stake has been used by muslim apologists of recent times.
I didnt say you did- my comment was actually directed at your sources Ghaith i know for a fact that shabir ally and deedat uses watchtower material quite often. .
Hmm muslims have told me the same thing but in reverse- not only that there are similarities between the two but many glaring differences. Anyways whats wrong with them giving him food and sheltar many witnesses will do that on their own to people in need and of course they believe their mission is to preach or minister to whoever in case of your friend him- obviously they didnt force him to be a jw .
Jws dont believe in arranged marriages they do try to matchmake alot though and chaperoned dates as they dont believe in sex outside of marriage. I will break down what happened to your friend- he was given food and sheltar and got involved in a weekly bible study- then was given rides to the meetings at kingdom hall. then the jw giving your friend a bible study knowing that your friend was single told him that there were some jw women who have grown up jw and were never married and therefore were virgins. and he tried to set him up with one of those women to court. I can almost guarantee that is what happened.
I didnt see anything sneaky from what you wrote.
Your sources dont feel the same!
Why would i? Perhaps i know you more than you know me Ghaith!
Lets have a look at Sahih and Mushin translation
Notice the [ ] those are interpolations Ghaith not in the arabic quran that is why the newer sahih internatioanl based on khans took the first interpolation out. So the translations totally support me
Absurd Ghaith muhammad disagreed- christians would not be ahle kitab if injeel didnt exist. so now ezra corrupted the torah???? .
No
interpolations Ghaith .
I mostly use islamawakened.com
That doesnt matter Ghaith the children of israel consisted of the jews muhammad knew that and at time of jesus preaching etc.. their were those children of israel that believed and those that didnt and those that believed became UPPERMOST hence paul became UPPERMOST . Then you have a problem with quran because its not saying smarter for one thing and its for all time until ressurection day
You are a murtadd according to quran
Ha haa deep Ghaith
Would you even care to listen Ghaith
Am doing that- theres a problem with two chains so far as an unnamed meccan is sourced -not very reliable.
He would hang in his house naked especially after he became caliph- the hadith is isolated but that doesnt mean it's maudu Ghaith
I am using simple logic i urge you to do the same Ghaith.
True indeed i will gladly be your wali and protector and ally whenever you say.
Huh look what happened at the end ....that was my point. you were implying that classical roman victories didnt matter because rome eventually collapsed- well the same can be said about caliphates.
They dont use it in their canon Ghaith. [
Nope the jews of arabia used talmud and torah they would never say onyone was THE SON OF GOD
OHHH ok no i dont believe that theory
Huh No it isnt-
They were always extinct because they never existed yos- Non muslim sufis those guys fuse islamic beliefs with traditional beliefs or shamanism etc... show me non muslim sufis existed before islam Ghaith.
I want you to think objectively and critically yos- i will later tonight if time permits.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello Kai, i almost started to think i insulted you on the JW and you didnt want to response because i hurt your feelings ohh well.
As to the Crecent case could you perhaps inform me on what the so called pagan roots to it is thank you. Because you didnt and i am unsure which Christian wacho theory you would go with the Bible.ca 1 maybe? Well se.
Now im confused because i tought it was your hobby 
Or a Jinn that was disguised as Jesus or the sun in the desert was to hot or as my theory he made a lie to corrupt Judaism that follower Jesus as a Prophet and al Messiah. And later made it as it own religion.
And the evangelists is not? I remember you defending Sam earlier. The Sam who uses fabricated book like Kanz al ummal.
How do you know the scripture wasnt limited to Tanakh(Torah and Psalm) and fragments of Injill in the 4 gospels. Why the Quran is pure genious is it mentioned 1 INJEEL. Not INJEELS.
Take the time to explain. Perhaps you will inculde some parables and mistranslations also to help your theory?
Well we dont know who wrote Colossian, its a theory that Paul did. Its stronger than that of Hebrew but its still unsure. 1 Timothy 1:10 states mankind. adulterers are married. What is a pervert kai? Where you a pervert when you where dating? I think someone fullling his needs is not a pervert. As for.
You are more read than me in Islam and you know there are over 12 hadiths that says kill the animal and the sick freak who commited this inhuman act which Paul allowed.
My dear Kai. How do you know the 4 gospel existed at the time of Paul.You cannot prove that Paul had knowledge of the gospels. So until we know the true gospel of Jesus i still say he contradicted it because god would not inspire Eze 23 and the naked prophets running around naked for years.
Funny how Exodus 22:20 doesnt even state to kill polytheist but if someone makes a sacrefice to another god. “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Its says HE, HE not ISRAELI but HE. Just like Exodus 22:19 “Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. Whoever. Exodus 22:1 “If a man shall steal an ox or a sheep, and kill it or sell it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. Show me where it says ISRAELI.
Well if Jesus is the king he spoke of to be. Than that king slayed his enemies. Dont you agree Kai?
Paul played a bigger role to Christianity than Jesus did. Why would a PROPHET like Paul or APOSTLE that GOD JESUS YOUR GOD KAI. Came to him. Why dont we have any prophecies so we know that he spoke the truth.
Its ok Kai. Im pretty sure you are still wrong to.
I have never spoken english with my Mom But no i would not use "mommy"
Seeing as my sources was pre Islamic. Im pretty sure that the Warch tower didnt exist at that time. The Pagans that accused the Christian ofcourse.
Im pretty sure they tried. Well atleast JW didnt bribe him with money as other Christians do in Africa.
I had the same toughts Kai. But i guess once they offered him a JW virgin they expected him to convert before the marriage.
I know kai, that why i said.
And ive already stated above that Khanwas tafsir translation in one. As Khan said and I will make those who follow you They followers as in khans translation are Monotheists, who worship none but Allah. Notice None but Allah, Allah is the Father. Its same as saying none but the father. Are you telling me that Paul didnt regard Jesus as worthy of worship? superior to those who disbelieve. These are as Khan says (Oneness of Allah, or disbelieve in some of His Messengers, e.g. Muhammad SAW, 'Iesa (Jesus), Musa (Moses), etc., or in His Holy Books, e.g. the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), the Quran). This includes Christians, because they disbelive in Muhammad. I know many Jews and Rabbis that accept Muhammad as a true prophet. But they call him a prophet to the gentiles. Sadly fewer do about Jesus.
But no injeel exists? Injeels exists. And none of the writers of the injeels claims that they got it from God. So its not the same Injeel as the one in the Bible.
That a website for americans right?
No no no Kai. Muhammad didnt write the Quran. Dont play the game as the agreement of the topic is that Muhammad wrote the Quran. The term Jew came much much later. 700 years or so after Moses time with the Children of Israel. So the Children of Israel are a race. That does not include Romans or Ishmaels or Koreans or Chinish. And most Christians after 300years where Romans.
Nope, i have a problem with you interpertation of the Quran.
Show me where i must hate Jews in the quran. Jews are my monotheist brothers Kai unlike Pagan Christians.
Also Herzl came 1100 years later.
If you found a source that tells the offical story. But you would just quote Ibn Ishaq and Tabari. Also i belive the son of Uthman had some of it?
Can you post the chains Kai? Because i know there are different versions to the story. But i belive they all lead to Anas? Just like the solomon leads to Abu Hurayra.
Source?
Come on Kai.
Do you think people would convert to what a nudist said Kai?
Hahaha
The arabs sold out yeah yeah. The Caliphate is on the rise again to : - D
Do they deny the gospel Kai answer me
Sources that they used the talmud? Also the talmud have been heavily corrupted and chaged since the time of Muhammad. jews them self admit that todays talmud has sources from the 9th Century. Also we can se that the jews stole stories form the Quran like Iblis not prostating to Adam. Because the Jewish story dates to 12th century. So Kai that argument is invalid.
Any tought? On why Alberto would make this up? Or to Vaticans maybe wishfull think they created Islam?
Again Kai the youtube video is whacko theories. But the bloodlines is no whacko theory
Are you saying Sufism didnt eist before Islam?
i be waiting Kai
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hi Ghaith, I didnt take that as an insult( if you mean the (jw crap) comments - i am not a JW- i have problems with some of their doctrines but there are JW doctrines that make sense to me- Im open to the fact that there may be no GOD but if their is then it is the christian god- that is why i label myself as an agnostic theist You see Ghaith it would be easy and a copout on my part (i dont like copouts) for me to say there is no god and dismiss your tu-coque arguments regarding the bible etc.. but im taking you to task- and i am endeavoring to show you that if the bible is not the words of god then the quran isnt either and if the bible is true then the qur'an still is false- got it dear Ghaith. Also it's highly unlikely you could hurt my feelings- Ghaith i have been called everything but a one legged eskimo Now time to get nasty- sarcastic, facetious yet informative LOL
Well- i was aware of the jack chick theories regarding the ALLAH is a moon god his research is rather sloppy- and i just seen the bible .ca you refer to- but no i didnt get those images from neither yos- the images i provided are simply innocent photos of those crescent and star (venus) images on top of those mosques- showing that islam itself has those ugly pre-islamic paganistic symbols.
It is my hobby yos- don't you get it wali? i am not going to give my occupation on here
So you believe that God would allow a person like the paul you describe to come and destroy his preferred people- and change the very words that God in quran says cannot be changed?
These kinds of theories about paul are foriegn to early islam- and even medieval islam for the most part.
Many of them are not
Yep i stand behind that defense he is well researched- im sure sam may have used that rehasing of al-suyutis hadee collection of al hindi- but their are muslim circles that defend much of those hadees- remember al suyuti collected a bunch of hadees and declared that some of them were fabricated or weak NOT ALL OF THEM NOT EVEN MOST OF THEM/
It wasnt dear Ghaith it was limited to not only التوراة and الزبور but الأنبياء prophets as well The Imbiya't consist of the prophets like daniel, jeremiah, isaiah, ezekiel etc...
This argument fails for the simple fact the quran never says only tidbits of the الإنجيل were used to judge by.
This is a ridiculous argument yos- because JESUS was the GOSPEL and in english it means good news coming from godspeed- you have four accounts of ONE GOSPEL even the writings of other apostles including paul are supplementary to it just as the prophets are supplementary to the torah.
Cute Ghaith its not my theory - it's in those verses no mistranslation and jesus did speak in parables this is no theory- you will find his apostles saying so throughout the gospel accounts here goes The Fulfillment of the Law 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Murder 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of gehenna. 23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. 25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. Adultery 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into gehenna. Divorce 31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Oaths 33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.[g] Eye for Eye 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies 43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." That was NIV translation i went through the verses and changed the fires of hell to gehenna because that is the word used in the greek
Have you read collosians 1:1 -timothy no doubt scribed the letter under the authority of paul that is why the writing style is different in some parts.
I know some of the 2nd century christian writers claimed matthew wrote hebrews others said it was paul
HUH show me? Yes indeed
I was a fornicator Ghaith
Dear Ghaith why does the hadith have to clarify the quran? those hadees come from the torah by the way. remember ezra's corrupted torah?
I agree that not all of the gospel accounts were complte at time of pauls martyrdom including the revelation to john and his letters. but that doesnt change the fact that those disciples of jesus were inspired according to christian belief. .
Sure i can, he quoted from luke and paul was well versed in jesus teachings which im sure i will get into in next post
No Ghaith
Why not? if you know the reason of ezekiel 23 it is pretty clear also many translations dont do justice to the hebrew like for example genitals are not found in the hebrew it is flesh. there is a difference. You mean isaiah walking around naked for three years? well here's barnes notes of the verses "Walking naked - That is, walking "without this special prophetic garment. It does not mean that he was in a state of entire nudity, for all that he was directed to do was to lay this garment - this emblem of his office - aside. The word "naked," moreover, is used in the Scriptures, not to denote an absolute destitution of clothing, but that the "outer" garment was laid aside (see the note at John 21:7). Thus it is said of Saul 1 Samuel 19:24 that he 'stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel, and lay down naked all that day;' that is, he stripped off his royal robes, and was "naked or unclothed" in that respect. He removed his "special" dress as a king,
Same thing Ghaith.
Then you go on and say:
Sure Ghaith those laws and jusdgements dont start at 22:1 but rather 21:1 and ch 22 is a continuation of them until 23:19 i believe Let's read exodus 21:1 “These are the laws you are to set before them: You is clearly moses and them is clearly the israelites. thank you very much
Well , the parable of the ten minas in like 19: verses 11 to 27 is what you are alluding to And yes jesus is alluded to as that king but he is talking about judgement day in fact it is a parallel prophecy of the destruction of jerusalem as well. In any case he isnt telling his followers to slay anyone JUDGEMENT AND VENGEANCE IS ENTIRELY FOR GOD. basic christian teaching.
Of course paul played a large role- there is a reason jesus picked him. . Ghaith you seem to forget my background jesus was not viewed as GOD .
Well, the prophecies regarding jesus are solid enough those prophecies would have meant nothing regarding the messiah if paul corrupted and destroyed jesus mission. remember the focus is on the teachings of jesus.
Thanks for the confidence Ghaith.
Fair enough
What pagans Ghaith?
It is a JW motto a meal lasts for a day but a spiritual meal lasts everlasting. so while i know of some witnesses that have helped people with food etc.. and encourage a bible study in order to save them in their minds it isnt a focus. You can't become a jw overnight- in order to become a baptized JW it takes alot of studying and time.
True, they must have thought he was serious about becoming a JW because a JW is not allowed to marry outside faith- that goes for man and woman
Jws dont believe paul taught that nor do they worship jesus- but according to trinitarians they are monothesits they just believe the father and the son and holy spirit is ONE GOD
it is referring to the followers of christ yos- jews dont believe jesus is messiah
BS It was always those four gospel accounts.
Have you been on it Ghaith? it has around thirty different english translations of quran it is a muslim website based in i believe canada.
Sure he did Ghaith either that or some abbasids or ummayads did. . You are learning Ghaith! israel was a nation of twelve tribes. Th
Christians are considered SPIRITUAL ISRAELITES.
LOL
Yes that rejected jesus as messiah - but we will get into your first sentence here later on for sure.
Will do getting tired now. . Theres two chains one is anas indeed and the other is abu hurayra but the third sanad in chain is unnamed meccan so i dont understand how this hadee sould be labelled as SAHIH.? 
Al tirmidhi Ghaith.
Why wouldnt they Ghaith they would circumnumbulate the kaabah naked.
I though you would get a kick out of that.
No it hasnt.
The secret gospel of mark they do.
Bullsh!t Ghaith Muslims have to come up with these theories to justify muhammad the quran etc.. so they re-invent history and facts.
Sure it is
Any tought? On why Alberto would make this up? Or to Vaticans maybe wishfull think they created Islam?
Yes they are.
Show me evidence of pre-islamic sufi orders
After we get through these topics . Sleep tight dont let the bed bugs bite.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello dear Kai.
I can se you leaked out that the other 50% faithfull part of you is a trinitarian because the Christian god(s) are 3, and i dont take it that the JW god is the right 1 in you sight.
Yes it can be very dangours giving such information out Kai this muslim hackers can track you down busing your occupation information, let alone the IP adress that can track yor computer by the inch.
Kai when did i say Paul corrupted the bible?Allah subhanna wa tahala la illaha ila huwa rahmani rahim trusted the scriptures to the rabbis and other religous leader was we read in the Quran. Injill wanst really written down so it cant have been corrupted how ever people may have written Gospels claiming to be of Jesus.
He is just as well researched as me and you and he never brought anything new and he is a suck up to CP who is even a bigger clown this 2 both vent on a 2 on 1 against Osama and still didnt make much of a impact. Osama is more researched than Shamu the wale.
You do know that Kan al ummal is from the 16th century. You also know the necrophilia claim from the hadith is out of context and the real context gives a whole different story(the complete hadith not just a part of it).
No it wasnt Kai. None of the prophets you stated where rusul and no claim in the Quran said that Casper(the holy ghost) floated around inspiring people. Besides Isa al Masih and RUH can very well be many things as many scholars says its Gabriel. We get more into this later. Funny how you brought up Jeremiah.
This is what Christians think.
That contradicts each otherm no kai the 4 gospels is not the injil of the Quran so quit with the wishfull thinking.
Jup Jere 8:8
Jesus didnt fullfil them Seems like the Christian Jesus didnt have knowledge that Ezra had to restore the Torah once and only a few years it was heavly corrupted in babyl before it was accomplished Seems like paul is screwed Lucky Muhammad
I dont speak Greek Kai, and we cant determen anything out of a translation. And Its unsure who wrote it Kai.
scroll up kai i already did.
Yup Paul allowed that.
so Kai? They are written in the 3rd and 4th trusted books of sunnis after Bukhari and Muslim. And are a part of the sunnah.
How do you know they where disciples?
That a nice try Kai, since i dont have a fast connection today since im in Makness with 3g connection i cant get you tafsir. I post some commentators tomorow and show you what the scholars are saying.
Ohh? How do you know that Kai. Its not clearly. Nowhere does it give us a feeling this are strictly limited to Bani Israel. So Ghandi wouldnt have done so well if bani Israel got hold of him.
Jesus made the command, if Jesus is god than that Jesus told moses to commit all those genocides in Deu. Either way Jesus wasnt that nice as Christian make him seem to be. Im talking about the Biblical jesus and not Isa ibn Mariam allahu ma salih hala masih.
Dont forget the quran came 500years later.
Roman pagans. Like Pliny
Yes and most of them use King james version which says Dragons exists
True but at that time some Jews did before Christianity like Yahya..
Yup but the quran is talking about the bani Israel race.
This was banned Kai.
Brotherhood and Erdogan are the first steps kai,
This are my own research kai. Muslims havent adressed the so called Talud Midrash issues yet just some stories. But thanks for insulting my research Kai : D And if you can find me jewish sources older than Quran on Ibliss prostating Kai than we have a different story As for Chick and Alberto Rivera i am sure you regard them as clown as well?
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hi Ghaith
No Ghaith it's just that i know of NO trinitarian that worships three gods ,
Well- JW's simply believe the father is The only one in the godhead and the son is the first of creations and also the last, and the holy spirit is gods power.
Thats not why my dear Ghaith i just keep my debating/arguing over religious and political matters seperate from everything else. ]
On my dear Ghaith ok so you believe paul did NOT corrupt the bible ok fine.
Its funny how you mention allah being the most merciful the very same sadomasochistic allah that will fill the bowels of hell with men and jinn - doesnt that seem the least bit odd to you Ghaith?
Ghaith you of course are alluding to 5:44 this is telling its followers that the Jews were entrusted with protecting and preserving Allah Book (the Torah)- and there is absolutely no indication given here that they had failed their trust nor that the Bible itself is corrupted. None, zilch Ghaith It condemns only those who misrepresent it. It is actually warning the followers of Muhammad that they will suffer the same punishment as those of the People of the Book who break their Law
Are you tearing up your quran into parts again Ghaith?!?!?! Of course the injil was in book form, according to quran or these verses make no sense- 19:30 He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book/scripture, and made me a Prophet." and 3:3 It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). And Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. ... 5:47 Say: "People of the Book, you do not stand on anything, until you perform the Torah and the Gospel [Injil], and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ... . 5:68 And finally Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them. S. 7:157 Now of course 7:157 is BS but thats another subject im sure we will get to another time- But the point remains that according to quran the injeel was with the christians those that were UPPERMOST and SUPERIOR or as osama says PREFERRED
I am not familiar with CP but you are basing this on a couple of paltalk screenshots- that is rather shallow .
In lying maybe! . Yes it was a re-arrangement of the earlier al-suyuti book If thats the case then why whine about the hadee being fabricated or weak?? . Yes it was YOS- take a look notice this word النَّبِيُّونَ al-nabiyoon it means prophets 2:136 قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ Here's pickthalls version Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
So their is a distinction between the prophets then? that is intellectual suicide Ghaith
I never could understand why many non jw christians are so determined to use holy GHOST it is holy spirit according to text- anyways holy spirit is god's power that is what is used to create, make miracles, heal, INSPIRE.
yasu'a al masih is labeled as AL MASIH the only prophet to be given that label in quran- and gabriel being holy spirit is ANOTHER GROSS BLUNDER ON PART OF ISLAM.
Yes we will
It will be even funnier when i bring up 15:90-93
That is what christians KNOW
It does NOT contradict- yes it is the injil implied by quran of course with additional apocryphal tales. IT IS YOU with wishful thinking and faulty presuppositions dear Ghaith.
If we use your logic about jer 8:8 then the quran goes down in flames with any credibility because so many places in quran we read this: O ye unto whom the Scripture hath been given! Believe in what We have revealed confirming that which ye possess, before We destroy countenances so as to confound them, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers (of old time). The commandment of Allah is always executed. (Surah 4:47 pickthall and 3:93 bring forth the torah if ye are truthful... my translation 2:41 And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone. many many more
Jesus didnt fullfil them[/quote] You misunderstand me yos- jesus fulfilled the law and prophets by fulfilling the requirements and by making a FULLER EXPLANATION of the law if you bothered to read the rest of thise passages from matt 5:21 you would understand that Ghaith.
Obviously muhammad Had no knowledge of this either
Back to square one dear Ghaith - you failed . Classic Ghaith copout!
REad collosians 1:1
No you didnt Yu
The greek word PORNIOS includes fornicators yos-
Didnt you say; " " i only accept bukhari and muslim" ????
The injeel says so.
Its a reasonable explanation
I showed you 21:1 you always get the feel that it is the israelites Ghaith that is a ridiculous notion
LOL of course it is talk about wishful thinking.
No only if he was an israelite Ghaith israel was a theocratic nation with boundaries the neighboring ammonites moabites and edomites always worshipped idols- it was only when they attacked israel was when the wars started
It doesnt matter if jesus is god or not israel had to deal harshly with the nations that tried to destroy them- if they didnt then there would have been no messiah
Sure he was
The entire concept of jesus came in quran via the bible- some arab scribes or mo himself at time screwed up his name though
The quran totally misunderstood the concept of jesus making covenant to replace old one.
Ive already showed you- you took quote out of context.
That is definately a poor translation coming from a guy that believes in a donkey with wings
Of course john the baptist foretold the messiah before jesus began preaching- and he knew jesus was the messiah- they were contemporaries
There was no israel in roman times yos- the provinces of gallilee and judea and samaria were roman districts
So what- it does show that no one would complain if mo was walking around his house naked.
LMAO
They have tried
Im just showing you facts- well iblis prostating doesnt come from talmud you do know that right?
Chick is a clown like osama and basam zakir naik i agree with that. i disagree with albertos thesis but he is not a clown. I would buy into the theory that some disgruntled jews in northern arabia and the holy land started islam by making deals with muhammaad after they felt they got shafted by the persians- in the late 610's that has more circumstancial evidence.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello Kai, it bring me joy to se a daily reply.
All trinitarians worship three Gods Kai. They worship Jesus as God, Holy Spirit(i use it since your not a fan of our friend King James) and than Allah subahanna wa tahala. They are modern day pagans.
ok Kai, i answer much easier now that i know that you are a 40 year old family man whose hobby is Islam and your knowledge about religion isnt a few reads at Fatihfreedom.org but you have studied it for 20 years unlike most members here. I still find it strange that you would even consider a garbage forum like faithfreedom. But you can se i answer you in a different way now than i did when i tought you where some punk copy/pasting. what made me think you where an punk was that you was questioning the Abyssinia persecution and than you posted a video of Ahmadizs being crushed.
I dont regard the NT as a part of the Bible Kai.
God is merciful beacause he set up a system that we can make up for our mistakes unlike Christians that belives he sent him self to die to forgive us.
Yes Kai but we also know that the scripture was corrupted, 5:13, 2:79
No my dear Kai, none of those passages say injill was a written down. 19:30 A book isnt necessary written Kai. The Quran wasnt written when it was being reavled still its refered to as kitab. 3:3 says he sent down, Jesus preached the holy injeel 5:68 i dont se how this say the injeel was written down. Funny how you mention 7:157, because it talks about the uncorrupt Torah and and Injil.
But you are with Sam, strange i guess Answer-Islam is more famous than Invistigate Islam
Nope not really. When we se the 4 hour long debate between Osama and Cp we can se his fullishness as for Sam he is a clown just from his debate with Anis Shorrosh where he couldnt answer and started passing papers around
Who is fabricated and not accepted at all by Al azhar.
Where in 2:136 does it say those are the prophets of the Tanakh?
No there isnt my dear Kai, but kai i have no doubt in my heart you know the diff between a Nabi and Rasul. But what was given to the prophets is not nec scriptures. Like the kingdom of Solomon (ra). And nowhere did it say Eze or Jere.
Well Kai, King James is the only one that uses Holy Ghost and its the most used Bible, even if it contains fabricated verses removed from other bibels and instead of OX it uses Dragon.
Allahu ma sali hala Al Masih Isa ibnu Mariam.
This is tafsirs, just like the crecent has nothing to do with Islam but with the Ottoman empire.
That will be a little hard Kai since there are only 21 verses in ch 15
You want me to post some contradictions Kai?
Why the Quran exposes the Torah of being corrupt why would jere make any diff Kai?
Kai, Jesus died according to you he never became the king.
So? How is that a issue?
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother. I dont se how this proves anything, Deu gives an feeling that Moses wrote it still we know that not true. So if people corrupted even Paul writing that wouldnt be a shock at all.
Ok so you can Marry an animal than hahaha
Read what i wrote.
But the injeel doesnt exist anymore kai.
We se what the scholars are saying im just to tired to post any now.
It says BANI ISRAEL. Including Bani. That like saying all muslims are spirtualy Quraish.
No Kai, no where does it limit it only to Israelies.
Either way Jesus will kill/killed. As for you insulting the Quran by Jesus i dont think this plays a big roll if i reply or not.
Ohh?
Buraq isnt mentioned in the Quran kai. And the bible says Donkeys talk and satans hides in bread before he poses People. Are we to compare stupidness now?
Wasnt Jesus an Israeli?
Nakedness is a sign of prophethood in the bible.
Yes i do, why else did i say 12th cent. But if jews copied 1 story what makes you think they didnt copy more.
Seems like you are not well read about Alberto. http://www.e-n.org.uk/p-1303-The-religious-hoax-of-the-century.htm
Jews honoring Jesus as the messiah?The same jews who say he is boiling in hot semen. I dont think so Kai.
So no problem with Sami Zat, Dr Jamal Badawi, and Shabir? Anyways sleep well Kai.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Im happy that i have been able to bring joy and tears to you Ghaith . Well, they believe the three are one At least you are not making blunder in quran by saying mary.
Hmmm their are many knowlegdable members here - some are more knowledgable than me and you combined. . I
I dont think its a garbage forum -if i did i wouldnt be here.
You thought i was a punk?? .
I see you have since learned that these stories come from ibn ishaq through ibn hisham and al tabari as well as al waqidi
Does it bother you to see the ahmadis getting beaten to death or does it bring you joy to see them getting killed like that?
Virtually all muslim scholars disagree with you even muhammad disagrees with you.
You are not answering my question yos- does it make sense that allah The Most Merciful of those who show Mercy-would torture people without end as mentioned HUNDREDS of times in quran who he knows are hellbound in the first place. this is a sick sadomasochistic god no matter how you try to spin it. christians believe that jesus fulfilled the atonement- and no he only died to forgive those who are TRULY sincere in their forgiveness. big difference.
Im glad you brought these verses up- 2:79 was referring to those making quran challenge-remember the story of those surahs like it?? Or if you refer to 2:78 with 2:79 the UMMI in 78 could either mean unlearned, illiterate or gentile Now if it means gentile it could be referring to the likes of musaylima and the other arab prophets in time of muhammad who claimed to recieve revelation. If it means illiterate or unlearned then how could they corrupt something they never had in the first place. two verses are regarded in Islamic circles as hard evidence for the alleged corruption of the Jewish scripture, they do not actually talk about corruption as they do not contain either the word “tahrif” or “tabdil - In other wordsmy dear yos- the author of the Qur’an did not assert that the authentic Scripture of the Jews was affected by this act of dishonesty. most likely pointed at some apocryphal / non-canonical writings of Judaism- Similarly, a Christian believer may refer to the false Gospels written by heretics and Gnostics, but the existence of such apocryphal texts does not mean that the New Testament writings were corrupted. Second of all, dont you wonder how an illiterate folk can be accused of writing a scripture? Were they similar to Muhammad in that they had been illiterate until they got a message from above and were enabled to write a book? Or did the author of the Qur’an mean “Gentile” when he used the Arabic word “ummi as i stated above? In that case we cannot say that the people who wrote the Scripture with their hands were Jewish- but the likes of musaylima etc.. Third, while some unlettered people are charged with fraud in Surah 2:78-79- they are said not to know the Scripture except from hearsay. Since this Scripture cannot be the false text fabricated by some deceiver - Ghaith dont you think that it is reasonable to conclude that the authentic Torah existed in Muhammad’s time although some unlettered people did not know it. Therefore these verses ironically prove that the Jews possessed the words of God at the birth of Islam. Fourth,if it refers to jews it is interesting to see Muhammad criticize some illiterate Jews for fabricating a book and attributing it to God in Surah 2:78-79. However, he had criticized Jews in another Surah for denying that God revealed a book to mankind: They do not prize God at His true worth when they say, 'God has never revealed to mortal anything.' Say, 'Who revealed the Book wherewith Moses came, a light and a guidance unto men? Ye put it on papers which ye show, though ye hide much and ye are taught what ye knew not, neither you nor your fathers.' Say, 'God,' then leave them in their discussion to play. (Surah 6:91 As for 5:13 In these verses 5:12-14 the Jews are not denounced for changing the words of God in their scripture. It is true that both Jews and Christians are criticized for forgetting a part of the divine message, but this does not refer to the supposed corruption of the Bible. The act of “forgetting” corresponds to negligence in this context- In fact Ghaith We could similarly denounce Muslims for breaking their promise and forgetting the following verse in their Qur’an it goes both ways: Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)." 2:136
Yes they do clearly
It's referring to the injil the same injil that the ahlekithab had in their possesion when muhammad revealed his 7:157 Ghaith
Say: "People of the Book, you do not stand on anything, until you perform the Torah and the Gospel [Injil], and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ... . 5:68" Ghaith it wouldnt make any sense if it wasnt written down Ghaith. in fact what about those hadees that say waraqa used to write down the injil??
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them WITH THEM YOS- who is THEM?
I have heard of cp but i am not all that familiar with him i have rarely gone on paltalk
Who had debate with anish shorrosh???
So what al-azhar accepts you accept?? please answer that Ghaith.
Hm it mentions jesus and moses then the prophets- didnt you say a while back that you accepted jeremiah as a prophet?
Well- of course i do but the verse mentions all nabi yos- and the five rasool are nabis also the rasul are the ones that recieve new revelation- all the while saying we make NO DISTINcTION yet there is- this is laughable Ghaith.
The quran also says that not all prophets are named
I thought the NIV was the most used translation?
Yasu'a is the only messiah indeed!
Then why is the pagan symbols on so many mosques???
Perhaps you are sleepy- so i wont capitalize on this mistake on your part AL-HIJR Ghaith has 99 ayas
They can easily be reconciliable Ghaith you think i have never seen those posted before by muslims?
That's the thing Ghaith the quran never says so
You tend to forget that jesus was also RESURRECTED While islam teaches that jesus rose to allah- making him greater than muhammad
It shows that timothy penned it Ghaith ,
He did with some editorial work by joshua according to christian scholars of course
No Ghaith you forgot the last part of 1 timothy 1:10 and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine" it isnt sound to screw animals But what about muslims Ghaith http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C06%5C27%5Cstory_27-6-2006_pg3_2 http://www.servinghistory.com/topics/Historical_and_cultural_perspectives_on_zoophilia::sub::Zoophilia_Through_History
wait there's more dear Ghaith http://unicorn.wereanimal.net/Ellgar/Historier/Beast_Storie_Archive/B/besthistory.txt
Now Ghaith could this be because so many muslims throw abu dawuds torah command under the bus as their is no prohibition in the quran against animal sex.
I did Ghaith that would be al nasai book and abu dawuds sunan but didnt you say you have problem with abu dawud etc...??
I proved otherwise
Fair enough
Big difference Ghaith - osrael ad the oracles and the law and prophets- so it only goes to show why the christians are considered spiritual israelites
Everywhere in those books its only referring to israel.
Yes and no one could help it if judgement day or armageddon happens
So you dont believe in the night journey Ghaith? Neither is a prohibition against animal sex Ghaith.
????
Sure show me ants that talk Ghaith
The jews were integrated within the empire- egyptians and many others became christian and people of the book they werent israelite Ghaith.
No it isnt Ghaith Ye
WELL they sure didnt copy quran as quran wasnt yet revealed when both talmuds came into existence.
I wasnt aware of that- oh well- i didnt buy his theory anyways.
Those talmudic passages are diputed they probably arent even talking about jesus WELL- according to theory the jesus as messiah developed later to appease copts and aramean christians,arab christians etc..
They are clowns as well same with deedat- i just thought you would get the idea with just a few names. [/quote] You too Ghaith
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello kai hows life in the Uk/Canada? Everything good? I can se that you are a fan of the ottoman empire.
Yes Kai, like the time when you said the 4 gospels was written by Mark Matt John and Luke the laughter brought out tears.
They also belive God died. THey are stupid people Kai.
No Kai, Ibn ishaq is the only avaible story. When you say no that didnt happen you must provide proof.
Why on earth would you even consider asking me that Kai Do you think im a psycho? Ofcourse it bothers me Kai. Do you think that because i show my hate towrads Masons and Zionist that i enjoy seeing people getting killed. You have disapointed me with this question kai.
Show me 1 muslim(scholar) talking highly of Paul.
Yes i did, god is mercyful unlike the biblical Jesus.
Do you want us to involve Ibn Kathir and Jalalayn?
Kai the 4 gospels contain fragments of the Quran. But 5:46 shows that the injill of Isa wasnt written down.
im sorry shabir ally.
no kai, i just made a point.
I like Jeremiah for the statement about laws but i cant say if his a prophet or not that knowledge is with Allah subhanna wa tahala.
NIV is full of bs and mistranslations to whitewash the errors.
Kai Yasu'á is a transliteration, while ISA is his arabic name. Why do you got a issue with this my dear kai?
i have yet to se a mosque with the pagan symbol in my life. But i be guessing who ever build the mosque didnt know of the pagan roots.Unlike the cross that is connected with Christianity and its rip off son god story.
No my dear Kai, i tought you meant Jere ch 15.
You sure i am like those muslims Kai?
No problem Kai, we will se what the scholars say if you want. I just want you to be happy Kai.
No Kai he wasnt. Its another rip off story just like the bread and wine hanging on a cross 12 deciples and so on.
Paul might have penned timothy privat but it could have been forged and when we se how it written it different than pauls other writings.
Kai, whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine, Paul is never clear on what that is. We can overuse this and make anything illegal in Christianty. So Paul is never clear and he allows marriage of Animals if the person that marries the beast doesnt find it to be contrary to the sound doctrine. Its not like there a list on the doctrine.
This sick sick act is commited in Arabia, but its far far from being common as the article states. how ever Kai, did you know that sex with animals is legal in the army in US?
This stupid fools dont know that the punishment for dating and getting lucky is less than playing with Horses and Donkeys But my dear kai its not only in Abu Dawud but. http://www.answering-christianity.com/sex_with_animals_forbidden.htm But Christianity is a multi sexual religion that allows sex with anything that mves, and because Paul was gay he allowed this acts.
Not problem i just rather not have it in my book shelf.
King James Version Isaiah 20:2 At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot. He was butnaked Kai, naked and barefoot. You se what the bible contains kai. You want to have another debate on what loins means kai?
Ohh Kai what gave you that idea?
Well the biblical Jesus seems to e a hypocrite because if he tells us to love our enemies than why will he kill his?
I do Kai, but you want to compare hadiths to the Bible?
First of Kai, only Solomon had the abilty to talk to ants second of all. Ants like humans also talk and have a form of language. Now Kai show me some rumiant rabits and talking donkeys.
Answer my question kai.
i just showed you it is. talmud has been changed alot since 7th cent kai
ohh who else could it be. Next thing you say is that Mary is disputed in the talmud?
Haha kai so every Muslim debater is a clown. Well Nadir Ahmed is a clown but Jamal Badawi and Shabir Ally are some well known people who have both swiped the floor with Anis. Anyways Kai sleep well
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
How come this thread has been diverted onto defending Christianity when the discussion should be on who was first to draw blood - muslims or Quraish?
Can we get back on topic please? sum
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello Sum. Me and Kai likes to debate different topic and none of us mind the change of the topic, and Kai has agreed that he will debate any topic i like. About the topic we have already debated that issue. Where the polytheist was the one that attacked the muslims first with their fowl mouth while the muslims made the first hit. Kai still looks at did as if the muslims made the first strike.
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Hello Ghaith
It would be better if you opened a new thread to continue your debate. This thread is for everyone not just for the two of you. Your comment about the muslims responding with violence to criticisms is very topical as muslims have continued to do this ever since. The muslim mind has been damaged and is intellectually incapable of defending Muhamadanism and so resort to violence. Islamic indoctrination has led to a violent and immature mindset. Fear Allah. sum
Re: A challenge to Ghaith on did muslims or qurysh draw first blood
Im peachy yos- how are you? Im in the U.S yos- so i dont know how life is in the U.K or canada
What makes you think that dear Ghaith? ts used by the mamlikes before the ottomans used it- or perhaps i like the pakistan and malaysian flags  Here's algerian flag malaysian pakistan
Can you prove they werent written by a matt. mark luke and john?
Well, they believe that the man jesus died and was ressurected while the father never died.
Ghaith ibn ishags biography of muhammad was re-written by ibn hisham and al tabari in fact it is those two sources that guillueme used to make ibn ishaqs sirat al rasool I used common sense Ghaith about the stories of muslims going to ethiopia etc....etc... ]
I was just making sure yos-
you never answered me on that until now.
I considered it because of the hostility you have used when you have commented on ahmadiyans- masons is an invented enemy Ghaith .
hmmmm
Are you sure of what you are asking dear Ghaith? al tabari and ibn kathir, qurtubi, all referred to paul as a follower of jesus sort of like a tabi'un if you will.
That is nonsense - The most merciful of the merciful will prepare a place of eternal torment for his creatures whom he knows many will never follow him to burn forever and ever? Dont make me laugh Ghaith.
LOL sure we can as long as we can involve them on 2:121 10:94, 2:136, 3:3 etc...etc...
Other way around Ghaith 5:46 does not show that at all وَقَفَّيْنَا عَلَىٰ آثَارِهِم بِعِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ ۖ وَآتَيْنَاهُ الْإِنجِيلَ فِيهِ هُدًى وَنُورٌ وَمُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةً لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ If you notice it says al-injeela feehi hudan wanoorun wamusaddiqan.... the feehi means IN IT that means the gospel contains the guidance and light therefore the gospel is in bookform So what?
Well shabir acted like a whiny teenager when he was talking about eze. 23 His performance in that debate with sam was terrible
You made a point defeating the purpose of your original point- what about al suyutis Al-Jaami' al-Kabîr?nevermind his tafsir....
You like jeremiah 8:8 but you dont like jeremiah chapter 26 You did tell me a while back that you believed jeremiah was a prophet-
The NIV does have some poorly translated words etc... but my point was that the NIV is more widely used then the KJV.
Well, my dear Ghaith Yasu'á is the proper arabic term for jesus isa makes no sense to mean jesus because it is in reverse to the hebrew and aramaic you see Ghaith Eesaa is quite different, in that it starts with an `ayn. While the aramaic and hebrew ends with the 'ayn.
I have showed you two here's some more Theres many more but you havent either paid attention to the minarets of the mosques in morroco we have these  This is in fez  You never seen those Ghaith??
No i didnt Ghaith
I have seen shabirs claims Ghaith
You won't
LOL whats wrong with the 12 apostles? bread and wine on last supper makes sense.
You mean when he circumcized him? if it was forged then the quran has been forged too.
Having sex with an animal is not sound yos- and we know sodomy and adultery fornication is forbidden. On the contrary it is the quran that is never clear on these matters except adultery Im still waiting for that aya from quran forbidding animal sex.
Really yos- how do you know that? Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38: Kitab Al-Hudud we read Book 38, Number 4449: Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it. " Okay but then we read in the very next hadee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book 38, Number 4450: Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: There is no prescribed punishment for one who has sexual intercourse with an animal."
You mean senate bill S. 1867 which repealed the article 125 prohibiting sodomy and beastiality?! well many of the senators didnt read the bill and didnt realize that- Of course article 134 can still be used against those involved in beastiality
No eze 23 likens the flesh of the false idols of assyria and egypt as those of horses and donkeys-the torah is very specific about the punishment of beastiality
I never said it was only in abu dawud- ahmed ibn hanbal ,l suyutis hadees But in any case You will find no prohibition of animal sex in the quran bukhari or muslim same with maliks muwatta- these other narrations in must stem from the israeliya works like ezras corrupted torah! Thanks for providing link to prove my point.
Pure unsubstatiated nonsense.
You said you only take bukhari and muslim seriously- now suddenly you have a change of heart?  i wonder why my dear Ghaith
No he wasnt Ghaith the wycliffe Bible Dictionary p.477 says that the Hebrew word here was often used of men clad only in their inner tunic Theres many assyrian sculptures showing their captives wearing nothing but a tunic around their privates- and the purpose of isaiah doing this was to emulate israel being taken captive.
WHy? It says sackcloth not tunic.
Its all over the place Ghaith its god commanding israel through moses.
Because on judgement day you will have the people who will kill off gods people according to most christians- so if he didnt come mankind would destroy itself of he didnt. The quran is too vague and unambiguous to compare it too bible so we have to go with hadees many times
No ants dont talk like humans this has been blown up by the likes of your osama and harun yahyah LOL In the article http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/that video is based on we read:
Ghaith this is far from what the Qur’an supposes, ants do not talk, they make sounds by rubbing body parts together. The sound might according to professor Thomas ‘provoke different reactions’. However Thomas also concedes that it still remains unclear to what extent ants rely ‘on sound for language’ and that the variety in sounds is still a matter undiscovered
You didnt pay attention to rabbits chewing on their own feces-did you? Balaams donkey was made to talk by the angel standing in the way of path sort of like a ventriliquist would the bible never says the donkey spoke on its own Besides Ghaith havent you heard a donkey communicate much more so then an ant. lol
Will you even pay attention?? you are dissapointing me Ghaith you have ignored several of my answers and replies
No you didnt
Not really changed just alot of commentarys have been added to it.
Show me those passages Ghaith I guarantee you Ghaith that It that there is no consensus whether Jesus is mentioned at all in the Talmud. Most of the supposed "blasphemies" of Jesus and Mary in the Talmud do not refer to them at all. However, there can be no denying, and no rabbi would deny this, that the authors of the Talmud did not believe in Jesus' messiahship or his divinity- soof course f you are looking for Christian fellowship then Jewish literature is not the place to look. However, there is no basis at all to state unequivocably that the Talmud calls Jesus a bastard or that Mary was a prostitute who had sex with many men.
That is subjective and a matter of opinion
Will do
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