I am going to put final nail in the coffin and prove here that Islam is all false because quran was not from any divine source but was written by cunning Muhammad the fraud.
All muslims believe that Allah is most wise and intelligent, he knows it all, even what we have inside our hearts he knows it.
Quran 8:65 says
Sahih International
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Dumb Allah asked one muslim to handle 10 unbelievers (200/20=10). And then he abrogated this right away as he was told that he had crossed the limit.
Quran 8:66 Sahih International
Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
Now he says one muslim should be able to handle 2 unbelievers ( 200/100=2), much more reasonable.
Please read Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons, they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve.)
The Ayah says, one Muslim should endure ten disbelievers. Allah abrogated this part later on, but the good news remained. `Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak said that Jarir bin Hazim narrated to them that, Az-Zubayr bin Al-Khirrit narrated to him, from `Ikrimah, from Ibn `Abbas, "When this verse was revealed,
(If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred...) it became difficult for the Muslims, when Allah commanded that one Muslim is required to endure ten idolators. Soon after, this matter was made easy,
Allah lowered the number of adversaries that Muslims are required to endure﴾, and thus, made the required patience less, compatible to the decrease in numbers.'' Al-Bukhari recorded a similar narration from Ibn Al-Mubarak. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "When this Ayah was revealed, it was difficult for the Muslims, for they thought it was burdensome since twenty should fight two hundred, and a hundred against a thousand. Allah made this ruling easy for them and abrogated this Ayah with another Ayah,
So Allah the all knowing and wise did not have the sense that what he was asking was way too much and impossible. Humans needed to tell him so he can correct himself right away. If this is not the proof that Muhammad was a bastard who was making these Ayahs as he went along then what else.
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Last edited by iffo on Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:17 am, edited 5 times in total.
The entire concept of abrogation is ludicrous. An all perfect GOd should be getting things right in the first place.16:101, 2:106 speak about abrogation. Quran alone muslims like Mesmorial try to tell us that these verses were revealed in connection to previous scriptures but the problem still is not solved. How can an all knowing God abrogate something even if it be only previous scriptures? Does not that mean that he did not get it right in the first place?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
skynightblaze wrote:The entire concept of abrogation is ludicrous. An all perfect GOd should be getting things right in the first place.16:101, 2:106 speak about abrogation. Quran alone muslims like Mesmorial try to tell us that these verses were revealed in connection to previous scriptures but the problem still is not solved. How can an all knowing God abrogate something even if it be only previous scriptures? Does not that mean that he did not get it right in the first place?
Muslim response will be they were right for that time and situation but not for now. But in 8:65-66 he changed his mind and abrogated right away after been complained by people that what he was asking was too much. Allah the all knowing, the one who knows past and future did not have the common sense to know this on his own.
This might help you.. The verse was revealed during Muhammad's time and cancelled right away.
Spoiler! :
[Sahih Bukhari Book: 52, Hadith: 69] Narrated Anas bin Malik: For thirty days Allah's Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was: "Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased"
Sahih Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 54: Narrated Mujahi: (regarding the Verse):-- "Those of you who die and leave wives behind. They - (their wives) -- shall wait (as regards their marriage ) for four months and ten days)." (2.234)
The widow, according to this Verse, was to spend this period of waiting with her husband's family, so Allah revealed: "Those of you who die and leave wives (i.e. widows) should bequeath for their wives, a year's maintenance and residences without turning them out, but if they leave (their residence), there is no blame on you for what they do with themselves provided it is honorable.' (i.e. lawful marriage) (2.240).
So Allah entitled the widow to be bequeathed extra maintenance for seven months and twenty nights, and that is the completion of one year. If she wished she could stay (in her husband's home) according to the will, and she could leave it if she wished, as Allah says:
"..without turning them out, but if they leave (the residence), there is no blame on you." So the 'Idda (i.e. four months and ten days as it) is obligatory for her.
'Ata said: Ibn 'Abbas said, "This Verse, i.e. the Statement of Allah: "..without turning them out.." cancelled the obligation of staying for the waiting period in her dead husband's house, and she can complete this period wherever she likes." 'Ata's aid: If she wished, she could complete her 'Idda by staying in her dead husband's residence according to the will or leave it according to Allah's Statement:--
"There is no blame on you for what they do with themselves." 'Ata' added: Later the regulations of inheritance came and abrogated the order of the dwelling of the widow (in her dead husband's house), so she could complete the 'Idda wherever she likes. And it was no longer necessary to provide her with a residence. Ibn 'Abbas said, "This Verse abrogated her (i.e. widow's) dwelling in her dead husband's house and she could complete the 'Idda (i.e. four months and ten days) wherever she liked, as Allah's Statement says:--"...without turning them out..."
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
Iffo wrote:Muslim response will be they were right for that time and situation but not for now.
That is a fair response but don't you think that they need to justify this statement? I mean christianity and islam do not disagree on all the things so the part of previous message (assuming the God was same) is carried forward in islam. So when a muslim claims that particular teaching was valid during the time of Jesus but not valid during times of Muhammad then they need to justify how a particular teaching suited a Jesus' time and why it was required to change it during Muhammad's time otherwise it is simply throwing a baseless claim.
Anyway but I would agree with you that rather than going about this pointless debate which diverts attention, it is better to use things that were revealed to Muhammad and cancelled immediately so that a muslim does not get any chance to divert attention and skip the main topic.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
There is a time difference to when 8:65 was revealed and 8:66 was revealed.
You should pray harder to your god Dawkins so he can give you something better that i can debunk
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
There is a time difference to when 8:65 was revealed and 8:66 was revealed.
You should pray harder to your god Dawkins so he can give you something better that i can debunk
I cant even tell you to pray to your lord because I know he doesnt even exist . Btw I do not follow Dawkins and to be honest I have not read a single article written by him because i never felt the need . It is so easy to debunk your religion.
Coming to the point , read the verses carefully. It does not matter as to when these verses were revealed. 8:66 seeks to correct the command in 8:65 and the reason for the same is also mentioned in 8:66. The reason the command in 8:65 was substituted with 8:66 is that muslim army was weak. So if the muslim army was weak then Allah should not have revealed 8:65 in the first place.
I guess even Allah requires trial and error to figure out the number
Also please take a look at the sahih ahadith that I have brought . Why does Allah cancel the verses? An All knowing, All wise God should be getting things right the first time but he it seems he requires to give a second try to correct what he missed in the first attempt.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.
Btw I do not follow Dawkins and to be honest I have not read a single article written by him because i never felt the need
I was talking to Iffo not you btw
It is so easy to debunk your religion.
Really??!??! I issued a 1v1 challenge in the other thread to debate Islam and Science.
8:66 seeks to correct the command in 8:65
Yeah. But the time differense is important as this was commands during a war as i explained.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
The reason the command in 8:65 was substituted with 8:66 is that muslim army was weak.
iffo wrote:I am going to put final nail in the coffin and prove here that Islam is all false because quran was not from any divine source but was written by cunning Muhammad the fraud.
All muslims believe that Allah is most wise and intelligent, he knows it all, even what we have inside our hearts he knows it.
Quran 8:65 says
Sahih International
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.
Dumb Allah asked one muslim to handle 10 unbelievers (200/20=10). And then he abrogated this right away as he was told that he had crossed the limit.
Quran 8:66 Sahih International
Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
Now he says one muslim should be able to handle 2 unbelievers ( 200/100=2), much more reasonable.
Please read Tafsir Ibn Kathir
(If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons, they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve.)
The Ayah says, one Muslim should endure ten disbelievers. Allah abrogated this part later on, but the good news remained. `Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak said that Jarir bin Hazim narrated to them that, Az-Zubayr bin Al-Khirrit narrated to him, from `Ikrimah, from Ibn `Abbas, "When this verse was revealed,
(If there are twenty steadfast persons among you, they will overcome two hundred...) it became difficult for the Muslims, when Allah commanded that one Muslim is required to endure ten idolators. Soon after, this matter was made easy,
Allah lowered the number of adversaries that Muslims are required to endure﴾, and thus, made the required patience less, compatible to the decrease in numbers.'' Al-Bukhari recorded a similar narration from Ibn Al-Mubarak. Muhammad bin Ishaq recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "When this Ayah was revealed, it was difficult for the Muslims, for they thought it was burdensome since twenty should fight two hundred, and a hundred against a thousand. Allah made this ruling easy for them and abrogated this Ayah with another Ayah,
So Allah the all knowing and wise did not have the sense that what he was asking was way too much and impossible. Humans needed to tell him so he can correct himself right away. If this is not the proof that Muhammad was a bastard who was making these Ayahs as he went along then what else.
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Keep looking hard and still hit a brick wall, iffo. Read this below from a previous discussion with one of your forum friends
In a vision to the prophet, Allah made the future adversaries of the Muslims look few in numbers because had He shown them as they truly were 8:43"you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter". In that prophetic vision, the prophet saw what would occur at the battlefield, namely the fact that the ill-equiped and outnumbered Muslims will be assisted by angels whose number will be proportionate to the believers' degree of patience and God-consciousness, "pouring down" from Heaven, thousand after thousand in succession/murdifin exactly like an orderly army being sent section after section in waves 3:123-5,8:9. The number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity since even a single heavenly being could wipe out an entire human army, but as a means of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, and victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means as He amply did in the past such aswas done to the nations of Nuh, Shuayb or Jesus, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 8:10,47:4. They are clearly told divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness, of which they lacked at Uhud.
As the vision was communicated to the believers 3:123-4,8:10 it impacted them greatly by making them 8:12"firm" in their resolve which in turn had the effect of casting "terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve". Such terror was due to their instant psychological defeat at seeing those whom they knew were helpless and weak engage them with such ferocity and resolve, consequently seeing the believers 3:13"twice as many". When the parties firstly met, the Muslims who were convinced that the heavenly hosts were on their sides saw the coalition of disbelievers as few despite clearly outnumbering them in manpower and equipment, and the disbelievers' first impression upon seeing the Muslims was their little number due to their physical appearance 8:44. This emboldenned both parties to engage in battle; the few Muslims and the angels on their sides against the large coalition of disbelievers with evil forces on their side whispering their suggestions to incite them further 8:48. It was so 8:44"in order that Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done" which was to make that battle a 8:41"day of distinction", making it a landmark and a criterion for the believers as well as the disbelievers and a concrete proof of the truthfulness of Muhammad's years of prophetic warnings.
The Muslim warriors and the unseen angels on their sides began to slay and capture the rejecters of faith, while the shaitan 8:48"turned upon his heels, and said: Surely I am clear of you, surely I see what you do not see, surely I fear Allah; and Allah is severe in requiting (evil)". This resulted in the death of 70 among the cream of the Quraysh elite and 70 were made prisonners. The rest of the enemy coalition was overwhelmed at seeing this, so they retreated without the Believers having to resort to their full firepower 8:54"In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust".
This was an aya/sign from Allah 3:12-13, a help from Him to make the believers overcome all odds and come out victorious because had He not assisted them, they wouldnt have been capable of overcoming the enemy 3:160 as in the days of Moses who warned his people not to engage their powerful enemies in battle immidiately, for God's help is not with them yet Numbers13.
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you [u]one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
There is a time difference to when 8:65 was revealed and 8:66 was revealed.
You should pray harder to your god Dawkins so he can give you something better that i can debunk
hehehe hohoh So muslim got tired and became weak so Allah abrogated from 20 to 2 ., for how long weakness going to last? that weakness was permanent Buddy you have debunked nothing in fact trapped in the box with Mo and I am putting the final nail . Just replying and saying blah blah does not mean you debunked.
Allah got it wrong at first place and he changed it from 20 to 2 is enough to prove for people who have brain that some human was writing quran. Problem iswith my habibi and his ancestors brain cells were destroyed by Islam, cells which are responsible for critical thinking and analyzing.
@Eagle,
long time no see? welcome back. still been fooled by Muhammad the fraud? or have you become an honest man now and joined humanity? There is lot of sh!t in quran, one thing at a time., what you wrote has nothing to do with 8:66
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you [u]one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
There is a time difference to when 8:65 was revealed and 8:66 was revealed.
You should pray harder to your god Dawkins so he can give you something better that i can debunk
hehehe hohoh So muslim got tired and became weak so Allah abrogated from 20 to 2 ., for how long weakness going to last? that weakness was permanent Buddy you have debunked nothing in fact trapped in the box with Mo and I am putting the final nail . Just replying and saying blah blah does not mean you debunked.
Allah got it wrong at first place and he changed it from 20 to 2 is enough to prove for people who have brain that some human was writing quran. Problem is my habibi and his ancestors brain cells were destroyed by Islam, cells which are responsible for critical thinking and analyzing.
Where did you get the numbers 20 to 2? Are you sure you dont mean 10 to 2
Like i said the time difference are different and there are factors tha needs to be considered.
As i said
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
How do you know they retreated between those 2 suras Iffo?
O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you [u]one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
There is a time difference to when 8:65 was revealed and 8:66 was revealed.
You should pray harder to your god Dawkins so he can give you something better that i can debunk
hehehe hohoh So muslim got tired and became weak so Allah abrogated from 20 to 2 ., for how long weakness going to last? that weakness was permanent Buddy you have debunked nothing in fact trapped in the box with Mo and I am putting the final nail . Just replying and saying blah blah does not mean you debunked.
Allah got it wrong at first place and he changed it from 20 to 2 is enough to prove for people who have brain that some human was writing quran. Problem is my habibi and his ancestors brain cells were destroyed by Islam, cells which are responsible for critical thinking and analyzing.
Where did you get the numbers 20 to 2? Are you sure you dont mean 10 to 2
Like i said the time difference are different and there are factors tha needs to be considered.
As i said
8:65 asks one believer to overcome ten disbelievers but in 8:66 Allah(swt) eases the the task for the believers to overcome two disbeliever per believer because they became weak after fighting.
How do you know they retreated between those 2 suras Iffo?
Yes 10.
what changed ? your weak responses will not get you out of the box little habibi. Your Allah has a brain size of a grape my great friend, he can not get things right at first shot. Your Muhammad can only fool brain dead people whose been brain dead for last 1400 years, not people who are gifted with brain of a human being.
looks like a pattern, Allah needs humans help to think straight, remember that 50 prayer thing. lol
Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers. When I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, "What has Allah enjoined on your followers?" I replied, "He has enjoined fifty prayers on them". Moses said "Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it". (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 1, p. 213).
@Iffo If there was only surah telling them to kill 2 each(lets jus say kill). Do you think they would have dominated just as much as if he told them to kill 10?
long time no see? welcome back. still been fooled by Muhammad the fraud? or have you become an honest man now and joined humanity? There is lot of sh!t in quran, one thing at a time., what you wrote has nothing to do with 8:66
Staying at the FFI ghost town is making you incapable of connecting the dots properly. I thought you would understand 8:65-66 based on what i said on 3:123-5. So here it is again:
As already said, the number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity since even a single heavenly being could wipe out an entire human army, but to serve 2 purposes:
The first one was to make their promised vast numbers a means of stiring the believers' God-counsciousness and spirituality, since they are clearly told the degree of divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness as already seen in 3:123-5. The same idea is reiterated elsewhere, as in 8:65 where they are told how patience and resolve will grant them a power ratio of 10 to 1, but due to them not having globally reached the necessary degree of piety yet, the ratio of their military might is still at 2 to 1 and consequently Allah has not allowed the disbelievers' military capacity to exceed too much that of the believers 8:66"For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you.." This rule regarding divine assistance is demonstrated from their defeat at the battle of Uhud where they had behaved unrighteously, and from their victory at Badr, where they had been God-conscious and thus deserving of divine assistance. They were in both cases much inferior in military capabilities than their foes, thus showing that their victory had nothing to do with their own selves, and came from somewhere else 8:18"Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers".
The prospect of heavenly assistance had the second purpose of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, although victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means such as natural cataclyms or else as He amply did in the past as was done to the nations of Nuh, Shuayb or Jesus, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers themselves as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 8:10,47:4.
long time no see? welcome back. still been fooled by Muhammad the fraud? or have you become an honest man now and joined humanity? There is lot of sh!t in quran, one thing at a time., what you wrote has nothing to do with 8:66
Staying at the FFI ghost town is making you incapable of connecting the dots properly. I thought you would understand 8:65-66 based on what i said on 3:123-5. So here it is again:
As already said, the number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity since even a single heavenly being could wipe out an entire human army, but to serve 2 purposes:
The first one was to make their promised vast numbers a means of stiring the believers' God-counsciousness and spirituality, since they are clearly told the degree of divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness as already seen in 3:123-5. The same idea is reiterated elsewhere, as in 8:65 where they are told how patience and resolve will grant them a power ratio of 10 to 1, but due to them not having globally reached the necessary degree of piety yet, the ratio of their military might is still at 2 to 1 and consequently Allah has not allowed the disbelievers' military capacity to exceed too much that of the believers 8:66"For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you.." This rule regarding divine assistance is demonstrated from their defeat at the battle of Uhud where they had behaved unrighteously, and from their victory at Badr, where they had been God-conscious and thus deserving of divine assistance. They were in both cases much inferior in military capabilities than their foes, thus showing that their victory had nothing to do with their own selves, and came from somewhere else 8:18"Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers".
The prospect of heavenly assistance had the second purpose of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, although victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means such as natural cataclyms or else as He amply did in the past as was done to the nations of Nuh, Shuayb or Jesus, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers themselves as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 8:10,47:4.
long time no see? welcome back. still been fooled by Muhammad the fraud? or have you become an honest man now and joined humanity? There is lot of sh!t in quran, one thing at a time., what you wrote has nothing to do with 8:66
Staying at the FFI ghost town is making you incapable of connecting the dots properly. I thought you would understand 8:65-66 based on what i said on 3:123-5. So here it is again:
As already said, the number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity since even a single heavenly being could wipe out an entire human army, but to serve 2 purposes:
The first one was to make their promised vast numbers a means of stiring the believers' God-counsciousness and spirituality, since they are clearly told the degree of divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness as already seen in 3:123-5. The same idea is reiterated elsewhere, as in 8:65 where they are told how patience and resolve will grant them a power ratio of 10 to 1, but due to them not having globally reached the necessary degree of piety yet, the ratio of their military might is still at 2 to 1 and consequently Allah has not allowed the disbelievers' military capacity to exceed too much that of the believers 8:66"For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you.." This rule regarding divine assistance is demonstrated from their defeat at the battle of Uhud where they had behaved unrighteously, and from their victory at Badr, where they had been God-conscious and thus deserving of divine assistance. They were in both cases much inferior in military capabilities than their foes, thus showing that their victory had nothing to do with their own selves, and came from somewhere else 8:18"Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers".
The prospect of heavenly assistance had the second purpose of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, although victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means such as natural cataclyms or else as He amply did in the past as was done to the nations of Nuh, Shuayb or Jesus, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers themselves as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 8:10,47:4.
What dots ? Eagle nothing changed about you, you are shamelessly dishonest as always my friend. That's something you inherited all the way from Muhammad. You can make any story in your bedroom and connect any dots you want, no person who has a brain will buy that Eagle, only morons will. Learn to back up any nonsense you write with evidence, I am not interested in your bedtime stories that you make to cover up Muhammad/quran blunders and tell them to your children. , Till than you stay debunked.
Last edited by iffo on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
long time no see? welcome back. still been fooled by Muhammad the fraud? or have you become an honest man now and joined humanity? There is lot of sh!t in quran, one thing at a time., what you wrote has nothing to do with 8:66
Staying at the FFI ghost town is making you incapable of connecting the dots properly. I thought you would understand 8:65-66 based on what i said on 3:123-5. So here it is again:
As already said, the number of angels was meant, not to answer a logistical necessity since even a single heavenly being could wipe out an entire human army, but to serve 2 purposes:
The first one was to make their promised vast numbers a means of stiring the believers' God-counsciousness and spirituality, since they are clearly told the degree of divine assistance is contingent on God-consciousness as already seen in 3:123-5. The same idea is reiterated elsewhere, as in 8:65 where they are told how patience and resolve will grant them a power ratio of 10 to 1, but due to them not having globally reached the necessary degree of piety yet, the ratio of their military might is still at 2 to 1 and consequently Allah has not allowed the disbelievers' military capacity to exceed too much that of the believers 8:66"For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you.." This rule regarding divine assistance is demonstrated from their defeat at the battle of Uhud where they had behaved unrighteously, and from their victory at Badr, where they had been God-conscious and thus deserving of divine assistance. They were in both cases much inferior in military capabilities than their foes, thus showing that their victory had nothing to do with their own selves, and came from somewhere else 8:18"Allah is the weakener of the struggle of the unbelievers".
The prospect of heavenly assistance had the second purpose of uplifting them psychologically and motivate them in the face of the overwhelming power they were about to face, although victory is ultimately from Allah alone Who could have exacted divine retribution on a nation of rejecters through other means such as natural cataclyms or else as He amply did in the past as was done to the nations of Nuh, Shuayb or Jesus, instead of having recourse to the angels or the believers themselves as has been decreed with Muhammad and Moses 8:10,47:4.
Keep up the good work
ran away as always like a mouse Ghaith, leaving everything on Eagle, Eagle has already been put in the cage along with you and Muhammad.
Jonah wrote:@Iffo If there was only surah telling them to kill 2 each(lets jus say kill). Do you think they would have dominated just as much as if he told them to kill 10?
I don't know what you talking about. You stay debunked. Muhammad/Allah tells them they can fight 10 and than after seeing its too much for them as shown by hadiths changed it to 2 for good.
When I say something I say with evidence and conviction. I don't make stories and make guesses.
Jonah wrote:@Iffo If there was only surah telling them to kill 2 each(lets jus say kill). Do you think they would have dominated just as much as if he told them to kill 10?
I don't know what you talking about. You stay debunked.
I am saying if 8:66 was revealed without 8:65 do you think Muslims would have been just as much effectiv in the War?
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. Btw I do not follow Dawkins and to be honest I have not read a single article written by him because i never felt the need . It is so easy to debunk your religion.
I only said i wont debate several issue with you until we cleared this one. 
