Jesus Myth

[paxi christi]

@ sten

The earth was not created 6,000 years ago

i fully agree with you.its much uch older.

We are not descended from 2 people

there were lots of people about when man came about,though it was through two people that the creator(god) chose to be his tenants of the world .

Dinosaurs existed

of course they did.

Prayer does not work against cancer, viruses and bacteria

have a look at this link

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/06/ca ... 07911.html

Mental illness is not demon possession

i fully agree again.

Snakes can't talk

you dont need t act thick because you are far from it. you know it depicts the devil.

[Sten]

@ sten

The earth was not created 6,000 years ago

i fully agree with you.its much uch older.

The Bible does not agree.

We are not descended from 2 people

there were lots of people about when man came about,though it was through two people that the creator(god) chose to be his tenants of the world .

That is not what the Bible says.

Dinosaurs existed

of course they did.

That is not what the Bible says.

Prayer does not work against cancer, viruses and bacteria

have a look at this link

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/06/ca ... 07911.html

The Bible states many times that all you have to do is pray to god, and he will do whatever you ask, including healing the sick (James 5:14). Prayer does not heal the sick. If you contract leprosy, all the prayer in the world isn't going to cure it.

Mental illness is not demon possession

i fully agree again.

You fully agree because science discovered and diagnosed mental illnesses. If it was left to religion, we'd still be trying to exorcise schizophrenia and epilepsy.

Snakes can't talk

you dont need t act thick because you are far from it. you know it depicts the devil.

Does it? It never implies that the Snake is anything other than a talking snake. Does the Old Testament ever say anything about a Devil, at all? Read it and check.

[peterpin]

paxi, it seems that sten cannot get his head round the idea that not all Christians are fundamentalists,or mid-Western bible bashers. Maybe he once was a Jehovah's witness or something like that. That would explain it. I don't think he really knows what Christians believe nor is he very interested in that.

now sten, you keep telling us not believe anything that cannot be established by our senses or rational thought. So, establish the existence of this previous universe. Show us remnants. Where is it now? in the lost luggage office at Paddington station?

Also, you say Einstain was wrong. Show us his mistake, exactly. Then correct his equations for us. Get out your red pen. Mark it clearly.

If you can't then could we agree that your assertion of a previous universe could maybe, just possibly, be a belief? Shock horror... you got infected .you maybe have a belief!!! Is there some sort of atheistic ablution for that? A prescribed penance?

[paxi christi]

@ sten


ive done this from the bottom up,from your last post.

Does it? It never implies that the Snake is anything other than a talking snake. Does the Old Testament ever say anything about a Devil, at all? Read it and check.

Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no-one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil" "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has?... But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." (Job 1:8-11)


so you dont know the bible then.

You fully agree because science discovered and diagnosed mental illnesses. If it was left to religion, we'd still be trying to exorcise schizophrenia and epilepsy.

you have not read that thread have you sten? this answer is absolutely rubbish,you could do better than this surely.

Code: Select all

The Bible states many times that all you have to do is pray to god, and he will do whatever you ask, including healing the sick (James 5:14). Prayer does not heal the sick. If you contract leprosy, all the prayer in the world isn't going to cure it.

can science cure cancer sten? but then again if prayer did cure it science would claim it was some thing that was in there circles that did it. this is from the link i gave you read it........

striking differences in survival rates from epidemics in cities in the Roman world in the first centuries A.D. Stark has studied mortality from two epidemics -- one in the second century and one in the third century A.D. He notes that the survival rates in Christian communities were substantially higher than the survival rates in pagan communities. He cites evidence that this was due in large part to the care that Christians provided to the sick and to the refusal of uninfected Christians to flee the area with the onset of the epidemic. Many deaths in epidemics are due not to the acute effects of the infection but to dehydration, starvation and exposure of survivors of the initial infection who are abandoned. In pagan communities, healthy people generally fled, and left people who might have survived to die for lack of nourishment and shelter. Christians more often wouldn't flee, and stayed to care for the sick, even at the risk of their own lives. The result was a markedly better survival rate in Christian communities than in pagan communities. This ancient advance in medical care wasn't from science; it was from compassion and courage. And in the midst of an deadly epidemic, compassion and courage arose then, as they so often do now, from faith and prayer.

That is not what the Bible says.

We all know that Dinosaurs existed millions years ago before man. The Bible doesn't mention them by name but they would have been included in Genesis 1:24, "And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so." [Genesis 1:24] Yes, God did create them as far as we know, since we have their fossils.

That is not what the Bible says.

it says what it says sten,same again he does not mention every man and every woman..just the two who like i said was to be the tenants of the world...

The Bible does not agree.

Light,Separation of sky from sea,Dry land & vegetation,Sun, moon & stars,Birds & sea creatures,Animals & man. now that would take a very very very very long time to create more than created 6,000 years ago,wouldnt you say? show me were it says this in the bible sten will you.the main christian one not one of those loose sects that roam about.

are you sure you have read the bible sten? it does look highly unlikely with what you are asking .

[Jonah]

paxi, it seems that sten cannot get his head round the idea that not all Christians are fundamentalists,or mid-Western bible bashers. Maybe he once was a Jehovah's witness or something like that. That would explain it. I don't think he really knows what Christians believe nor is he very interested in that.

now sten, you keep telling us not believe anything that cannot be established by our senses or rational thought. So, establish the existence of this previous universe. Show us remnants. Where is it now? in the lost luggage office at Paddington station?

Also, you say Einstain was wrong. Show us his mistake, exactly. Then correct his equations for us. Get out your red pen. Mark it clearly.

If you can't then could we agree that your assertion of a previous universe could maybe, just possibly, be a belief? Shock horror... you got infected .you maybe have a belief!!! Is there some sort of atheistic ablution for that? A prescribed penance?

How are Jehovahs witness more corrupt and wrong than any other christian sect

@Paxi
Why dont you put your bible to the test?
According to the bible you should be able to play with snakes and drink poison

Mark 16:16-18
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Thats King James i could quote you from the childrens bible if you like?

Make sure you dont end up like this pastor.

[peterpin]

How are Jehovahs witness more corrupt and wrong than any other christian sect

Jehovah's witness are in many way quite similar to Muslims,Ghaith/Jonah. You would like them. They treat the bible as the literal word of God, and they don't believe in the divinity of Christ or in the trinity. They also say that all unbelievers, by which they mean anyone not a Jehovah;s witness, will go to hell, which to then is literally a fiery pit.

They are, as you can see, quite different from the average Christian...

They,will,however, generally know the biblical texts very well, but will not know anything about the origin or genre of these texts. That is also something they have in common with Muslims.

You may have heard at one point there was a rumour that Michael Jackson,who was brought up a Jehovah's witness, converted to Islam. I am not sure that is true, but it would have been a small step.

Sorry about the digress everybody else.

[Jonah]

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[paxi christi]

sorry put post in wrong section.

[peterpin]

Ghaith, I don't think this belongs here, if you want to talk about all this, let's open a new topic... We are going to upset people who will say we highjack the thread.

[skynightblaze]

for frankie:
big bang cosmology postulates that the universe is in fact of a finite age (1.4 billion years or there abouts) It also states that BOTH space and TIME started with the big bang. Crucially,it also states that the univers is expanding ever since. An expanding universe cannot suddenly collapse onto itself to form a new singularity to create a new "big bang", to start spaceand time allover again. So the idea of an infinite series of big bangs makes not much sense.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/bigbang.html

The link you quoted does not rule out of the possibility of infinite universe..This is from your link..

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang (see question 2). But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.

Here are a few links that speak in support of multiple big bangs however I think the whole issue is not clear.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... ntPage=all

http://www.news.com.au/technology/radia ... 5963294939

Btw here are some problems with the big bang theory.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

Btw why use debatable theories to disprove or prove christianity? The content of scriptures is enough to dismiss them along with the God they propose.

[frankie]

for frankie:
big bang cosmology postulates that the universe is in fact of a finite age (1.4 billion years or there abouts) It also states that BOTH space and TIME started with the big bang. Crucially,it also states that the univers is expanding ever since. An expanding universe cannot suddenly collapse onto itself to form a new singularity to create a new "big bang", to start spaceand time allover again. So the idea of an infinite series of big bangs makes not much sense.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/bigbang.html

The link you quoted does not rule out of the possibility of infinite universe..This is from your link..

It is possible that our universe is infinite and has been filled with matter everywhere since the Big Bang (see question 2). But there is also nothing stopping the universe expanding faster than the speed of light. Although at any local point within the universe, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light, this is not true for the entire universe. There is no limit on how fast space can expand.

Here are a few links that speak in support of multiple big bangs however I think the whole issue is not clear.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... ntPage=all

http://www.news.com.au/technology/radia ... 5963294939

Btw here are some problems with the big bang theory.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

Btw why use debatable theories to disprove or prove christianity? The content of scriptures is enough to dismiss them along with the God they propose.

skynightblaze:

Btw why use debatable theories to disprove or prove christianity? The content of scriptures is enough to dismiss them along with the God they propose

Jesus was not a mythical figure,he is a provable historical person.His teachings are sound,and are as applicable today as they were in His time.The only thing you can say against Christianity is that Jesus (the founder) is not God.

[skynightblaze]

Jesus was not a mythical figure,he is a provable historical person.His teachings are sound,and are as applicable today as they were in His time.The only thing you can say against Christianity is that Jesus (the founder) is not God.

I am not saying Jesus was a myth. He may have existed but his teachings cannot be said to be fully practical. We discussed about some of the teachings. Right? I do not believe Jesus was a God. The only thing I can say is he was definitely better than Muhammad by a ton.

[Jonah]

Jesus was not a mythical figure,he is a provable historical person.His teachings are sound,and are as applicable today as they were in His time.The only thing you can say against Christianity is that Jesus (the founder) is not God.

I am not saying Jesus was a myth. He may have existed but his teachings cannot be said to be fully practical. We discussed about some of the teachings. Right? I do not believe Jesus was a God. The only thing I can say is he was definitely better than Muhammad by a ton.

Now how do you know that sky?

[Ozes]

i honestly don't care what atheists believe. As long as they watch their behavior i am certain they will be fine. All atheists should have the following stance though:

I am not a Christian. I don’t believe in God. In my opinion Jesus is a composite myth. I am mentioning him only for the sake of comparison. My point is that IF God existed and IF He wanted to send someone to guide mankind, he would send a holy soul like Jesus and not a despicable thug like Muhammad.

~Ali Sina

[skynightblaze]

I am not saying Jesus was a myth. He may have existed but his teachings cannot be said to be fully practical. We discussed about some of the teachings. Right? I do not believe Jesus was a God. The only thing I can say is he was definitely better than Muhammad by a ton.

Now how do you know that sky?[/quote]

I would say even you are better than muhammad by a ton.

1) Muhammad allowed his men to have sex with the women captured in raids in presence of their husbands. I hope you know that husbands and their wives were not going to enjoy the romantic scene and it is obviously rape

2) Muhammad expelled the jews from their land because he claimed that earth belongs to Allah and his messenger.

3)Muhammad killed apostates
4)Muhammad stoned people
5)Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old minor which is a crime and he would be in jail today if he did that.

The list is endless . I am planning to start a sahih hadith thread for you . You are definitely going to have problems in reading the hadith.

[frankie]

Jesus was not a mythical figure,he is a provable historical person.His teachings are sound,and are as applicable today as they were in His time.The only thing you can say against Christianity is that Jesus (the founder) is not God.

I am not saying Jesus was a myth. He may have existed but his teachings cannot be said to be fully practical. We discussed about some of the teachings. Right? I do not believe Jesus was a God. The only thing I can say is he was definitely better than Muhammad by a ton.

skynightblaze:

he was definitely better than Muhammad by a ton.

Yes I would fully agree.The Quran and ahadiths prove this to be so.
This is a man that said:
"I have been ordered to fight the people until they say none has the right to be worshipped but Allah"

Mohammed's legacy was for all Muslims to follow his example,which includes: hatred for anyone and anything unislamic,fighting and killing non Muslims and child marriage.

And this is a man Muslims are told was a "mercy to mankind"

What a travesty.