Questions for Mesmorial

[enceladus]

Dear Mesmorial -

I am interested in your view of the Islamic inheritance laws.

As you will know, it is quite easy for mere humans to describe a situation in which the inheritance calculated by these laws is either less than (or greater than) 100 percent.

I would like to know from you - how is it possible for your alleged-to-exist god to create a "law" that is so badly flawed? How can mere humans outthink Allah?

Does this law not give you cause to doubt the existence of Allah?
If not, why is that? Why do you think he would create such a flawed law?

How is it possible for mere human arithmetic - KUFAR arithmetic even - to be superior to that of Allah?

Looking forward to your reply.
- enceladus

[MesMorial]

Why do you assume I am Muslim?

Why do you assume your interpretation of the verses (which runs into errors) is right?

[enceladus]

Why do you assume I am Muslim?

Aren't you? That's not what is conveyed in this recent thread of yours -
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12510
There's a great deal of defending Islam in there, and that's not the only thread in which you've done so.

If you're not a Muslim, prove it by insulting Mohammad and Allah. That will be no problem for a non-Muslim.

Why do you assume your interpretation of the verses (which runs into errors) is right?

I am not saying that at all.

What I am saying is - how is it possible for a "god" to make such a poor law, for which examples that it doesn't hold for are easily found.

So - if you are not a Muslim, you will no doubt agree with me that the Islamic inheritance laws are abysmally flawed. Almost 100 percent proof that they were dreamed up by Mohammad, not a god.
- enceladus

[MesMorial]

Let's play a game.


You go to that thread and give me 1 piece of evidence to suggest I am a Muslim.

Then I will give a piece of evidence which suggests I am not.


The person with stronger evidence wins.

[enceladus]

Let's play a game.

You go to that thread and give me 1 piece of evidence to suggest I am a Muslim.

Then I will give a piece of evidence which suggests I am not.

The person with stronger evidence wins.

I'm not interested in your silly games. You have already proved that you are a Muslim.
You asked me why I thought that my view of the inheritance laws was right.
That's exactly the kind of diversion that a Muslim does - instead of answering the question.

There is (of course) only one answer to the question - the laws didn't come from a god at all.
That answer was too uncomfortable for you, so you opted for diversion. Fail.
A non-Muslim would have agreed with me, and that would have been the end of it.
You didn't, and now it's too late. Busted.
- enceladus

[sum]

Hello enceladus

You will get no sense out of MesMorial. He is out to confuse everybody including himself. Just read his quotes -

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11373&start=60#p170914#p170914
Do the Koran only people consider the following?
by MesMorial » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 am

I am not a Muslim, but Sunnism is not Islam.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10151&start=80
MesMorial » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:57 am

The Qur'an is Islam. That is my religion.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11373&start=80
Do the Koran only people consider the following?
by MesMorial » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:43 pm

Again, I do not follow any of the Qur'an except what I would already agree with.

sum

[Ariel]

Perhaps MesMorial is ashamed to be a Muslim?

[peterpin]

All I can tell you he writes an unbelievable amount of garbage...
If he is not a Muslim, why does he even try to defend that joke of a pamphlet called quran?

He called the quran a "complete and sufficient spiritual guide" when he phone book provides more guide than the quran, and is much less offensive...


He simply lies when he says he is not a Muslim. Why he does that, who can tell other than himself...

I told him if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck,looks like a duck, it's fair to say it's a duck and to treat it as such. I don't care what he calls himself, his comments clearly make a Muslim, a somewhat nutty one at that.


I think he is just here for a trolling around...

[kaimana1]

Let's play a game.


You go to that thread and give me 1 piece of evidence to suggest I am a Muslim.

Then I will give a piece of evidence which suggests I am not.


The person with stronger evidence wins.

Are you a quran only muslim mesmorial? Because it appears that you are making quran only arguments. on other threads like nother sunni debate.

Are you a submitter, free minds etc..?

[sum]

MesMorial has posted twice but made no attempt to answer the question posed to him. Already he has tried to derail this thread by diverting it onto whether he is a muslim or not.

Just answer the question, MesMorial.

sum

[antineoETC]

Thanks to Sum:

The Qur'an is Islam. That is my religion.

So, Mesmorial, when, after writing this clear statement of personal religious affiliation, did you cease to consider yourself a Muslim?

[MesMorial]

Enceladus (and the other strugglers);

I'm not interested in your silly games. You have already proved that you are a Muslim.
You asked me why I thought that my view of the inheritance laws was right.
That's exactly the kind of diversion that a Muslim does - instead of answering the question.

No it means why do you think you are right? Thinking you cannot be questioned is why you look stupid.

You also appear stupid when you fall for Sum posting a long-outdated quote.

The fact is that they cannot refute me, so they try this.


Cheers.

[MesMorial]

kaimana1


No I am not Muslim. I have stated this repeatedly, including in available links.

I make arguments which cannot be refuted logically, so I get emotional responses as a reply. My point is to encourage, logical and unemotional thinking (this forum is filled with people most of whom have personal agendas). I wish to debate Ali Sina so I can demonstrate FFI has no excuse for its method.

It would take 5 minutes to prove the point.


Ariel;

Why do you suppose that? Do you mean ashamed in the same way as everyone else? The people here cannot even undesrtand the Qur'an, so it is hard to say.


Cheers.

[antineoETC]

No I am not Muslim.

So what did you mean by:

The Qur'an is Islam. That is my religion.

? If your religion is Islam then that makes you a Muslim surely.

[kaimana1]

No I am not Muslim. I have stated this repeatedly, including in available links.

I make arguments which cannot be refuted logically, so I get emotional responses as a reply. My point is to encourage, logical and unemotional thinking (this forum is filled with people most of whom have personal agendas). I wish to debate Ali Sina so I can demonstrate FFI has no excuse for its method.

It would take 5 minutes to prove the point.

Okay, i have read some of your older posts , and it seems that you are attempting an entirely different approach - in regards to refuting islam

In other words , you are attempting to convince sunnis to dismiss ahadiths, sirah literature etc. and hopefully they will realize that muhammad wasn't the man they thought he was (through qur'an only literature etc.)..- therefore the qur'an would be seen as non-divine" Is that similar to what your aim is?

If so, haven't you learned anything in your debate with Ghaith on nuther sunni debate? over 90% of the sunni population thinks similar to him. The sunnah and the qur'an are virtually inseperable. It's best to just attack it all head on, NO ?

The qur'an was revealed over 23 years - each ayat was "revealed" at a certain time under certain circumstances, the sunnah explains those situations and details. Very few sunnis would ever buy into that approach.

Then again , the thread sum posted , clearly showing you as a quran aloner.... hence a " muslim"

[MesMorial]

kaimana1;


Sunna is not a part of Islam, because the Qur'an says so. This means Islam is better than what Sunnis exercise (and FFI perceives).

This means FFI will share the same lack of logic, and will rely on emotional arguments instead of logic. This is irresponsible, and promotes jingoism. Targetting what is bad should not lead to hating labels. Islamic reform is a part of a broader move to unemotional, critical and progressive thinking. FFI does not realise it cannot fool everyone. It meets a sunni, and calls the sunni "Muslim". It then points when the Sunni does something bad, and says "that's Islam". Is that logical?

All relevant context is inside the Qur'an. If you cannot produce a verse supporting your point, then reflect.

The point you miss about my "debate" with Ghaith is that he is only (still) valid because FFI says so.

If you are interested in reading my articles and you can accept that Sunnism is a symptom (not a root problem), let me know. I warn that It requires lateral, unemotional thinking (i.e. gets to the point).

[peterpin]

More gibberish... you couldn't recognise logic if it slapped you in the face.

First, if a person does something bad, because his religion asks or even requires him to, it is reasonable to take a close look at this religion. Normally I couldn't care less about people's religions, it's a private matter. But when it comes to Islam it's different because Islam is dangerous. There are other such cults, but Islam is the worst because it is the biggest.

The quran you hold on to as having some sort of religious value, and this is part of the problem. Not only is it blatently not what it claims to be, a "divine" "book" and "sufficient guidance", as has been proved many times over, but it is also a nasty violent text. It's teachings are abhorrent.

It makes people arrogant and unable to use logic at best, murderously violent at worse.

So,in your own home-brew version of Islam, you reject pretty much everything, but keep this worthless and dangerous quran. Even worse, you decide that whole sections of the text can be ignored becuase they don't fit into what you would like Islam to be.

You re-define Islam to mean your personal opinion and find it strange when people laugh at that. You claim that Islam can be "reformed". This is also very obviously untrue.

So,my advice to you is: If you want to start your own religion, stop being so lazy and dump the quran,and write your own book. It is bound to be better, it can hardly be worse.

[MesMorial]

First, if a person does something bad, because his religion asks or even requires him to, it is reasonable to take a close look at this religion

Very good.



So let's see if you are a hypocrite.

Does the Qur'an mandate or allow another source of religious precept?


Cheers.


...

[sum]

Hello MesMorial

Before the thread moves on, would you please tell us if you believe that the Koran is divine in origin?

sum

[peterpin]

Does the Qur'an mandate or allow another source of religious precept?

The quran "confirms" the torah and the gospels, but at the same time contradicts them frequently, so it cannot even get that part straight. I suppose, it depends if you look at Mecca or Medina passages. It describes itself as "sufficient guide", so I would say no, on the whole, it does not approve of other sources of religious precept. It certainly does not approve of contradiction.

But then again, why on earth should I or you care what the quran allows? It is just a nasty little medieval text. Afterall, you wouldn't check "Mein Kampf" if you may look for your own sources for your own beliefs, would you? Or would you check with day-time TV to see if you may cook chicken soup today? Why do you need the quran at all? Provide your own guidance. More work, but worth it.

It only matters what the quran says when you assume it's origin is divine. That is the issue. It is also what sum asks, and as always he goes straight to the point. So is it???