
Alex wrote:(snip)
The whole Qur'an is mistake after mistake, contradiction after contradiction, irrational twist after irrational twist and then just plain changing words (Allah said). Why do Muslims believe in the Qur'an when its so clear it cannot be trusted?
(snip)
MbL wrote:So on the thread about who was Hanan, you accused me of not answering you, even though YOU said "back to my devoted silence toward you". So why would you be expecting me to answer this? You chose it, not me. But, since you later accuse me of not answering, I am answering. Maybe it is merely Kathir's opinion, but what does that do to dismiss my point?
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:He said Muhammad was the last and mightiest of messengers and that Allah commanded that Muhammad be obeyed.
How could the other prophets be asked to obey Muhammad when they lived before him?? Silly moron.
Let's find who's the moron here!
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20980
all Prophets gave the good news of Muhammad's advent and commanded them to obey and follow him...!!!
There goes Khatir's reliability down the drain.... and illustrate your 'Sunnite' credulity.
It's claiming the prophets before Muhammad predicted him and said that people should obey and follow him when he comes. It's talking about Deuteronomy 18:18 among others, you idiot. Look at how stupid and/or insane you actually are. And you asked me to answer this post on that Hanan thread?? What were you thinking?? This has to be your most blundered post ever. Do you drink heavily or did you forget to take your meds?
MbL wrote:Shakir says Apostle, you dummy. that's who i was quoting.
MbL wrote:Look at what an absolute fool you are NOW.... See how stupid you are? Certainly IS Shakir.
MbL wrote:there was a deeper meaning behind it (10.34-36). Jesus was never even close to being literal about anything.
skynightblaze wrote:1. It (6.92) says that quran came as a confirmation of previous scripture and people should look into them so that they can warn others about quran which means quran didn't consider the previous scriptures to be corrupted.... The article I linked says that Quran actually accuses these people of distorting the message by hiding or not obeying it and not by ACtually corrupting the physical text.
2. Now my take on this issue was that Muhammad wanted to replace himself as the final prophet and override the previous scriptures by claiming that his quran was just a continuation of previous scriptures and an updated version. Muhammad seems to be making mistakes about previous scriptures but I think they were due to ignorance of Muhammad about previous scriptures or due to corruption of quran.
3. Now to answer your question as to why muslims would want to claim that previous scriptures are corrupt is because they then find a good excuse to cover up the errors in the quran like misunderstanding of trinity, Jesus being not Son of God, misunderstanding that Uzair was the son of God (jewis belief) or Maryam was sister of Aaron etc. If they don't claim that previous scriptures are corrupt then this would mean quran is in error.
skynightblaze wrote:1. he (The Cat) was asking me where Ibn Kathir spoke about Maria and Muhammad affair in the quran but when it comes to looking for tafsir about following Muhammad this person rejects it! Why? because it exposes Muhammad and quran ! Now he will give excuse like He considers these sources as historical. Now time and again he keeps on claiming that Abbasids corrupted all the non quranic material and yet he thinks that the corrupted books can provide us with a correct history!
2. Secondly, he rejected the tafsir relating to 2:22 in the quran which clearly talks about FLAT Earth in the other thread. Those tafsirs say that Allah made the earth FLAT.
3. Another example of his stupidity is that he claimed that the name ISA didn't exist when Quran was compiled which would mean that the name ISA Was added after the quran was compiled . This would mean quran was corrupted however inspite of showing him how his post indicates corruption of quran , he denies corruption of quran and says that people after Muhammad didnt corrupt quran but only ahadith and tafsir.
Alex wrote:I see! Thanks for the answer! To better understand, I will reread afterward as well!
The whole Qur'an is mistake after mistake, contradiction after contradiction, irrational twist after irrational twist and then just plane changing words (Allah said). Why do Muslims believe in the Qur'an when its so clear it cannot be trusted? This man never committed any miracles and Allah said he didn't, he never did anything good, he never stopped bad things, he married children and had sex with them, was sexist and racist, hateful and angry and had a brain disorder. I mean he goes to a cave and leaves...and then says "I'm a prophet!" and people believe him? It must have been so easy to become a militant leader in those times.![]()
How can they even trust the Qur'an even 1%?![]()
Yes, I hope someone comes in here to clear it up.
The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:So on the thread about who was Hanan, you accused me of not answering you, even though YOU said "back to my devoted silence toward you". So why would you be expecting me to answer this? You chose it, not me. But, since you later accuse me of not answering, I am answering. Maybe it is merely Kathir's opinion, but what does that do to dismiss my point?
You're contracting yourself from confusing posts.![]()
viewtopic.php?p=162886#p162886
You're a damn liar. Everyone can check from my last link how you never answered, but left.
The Cat wrote:
The Cat wrote:
How could the other prophets be asked to obey Muhammad when they lived before him?? Silly moron.
So what is it now?
The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:Shakir says Apostle, you dummy. that's who i was quoting.
You're a fool who has quoted a biased translation of Shakir. For he never wrote 'Apostle' but 'Messenger', along with 2 main others:
The Cat wrote:
3.32:
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/3/32/default.htm
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/qur ... 03-qmt.php
YUSUFALI: Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say: Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
SHAKIR: Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
The Cat wrote:
The dummy here is you who didn't relate to mainstream translations, but a biased one, for apostle doesn't carry the Arabic 'Rasul'
and if Shakir would have used it, instead of 'Messenger', he would have been prove a bad translator.
MbL wrote:Look at what an absolute fool you are NOW.... See how stupid you are? Certainly IS Shakir.
The Cat wrote:Reminder: The important difference between 'Messenger' and 'Apostle'.
viewtopic.php?p=158703#p158703The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:there was a deeper meaning behind it (10.34-36). Jesus was never even close to being literal about anything.
Tell us how the Donatist massacre or of the Cathars, for example, were figurative...
skynightblaze wrote: The idiotic argument of "Obey the messenger" doesn't mean obeying Muhammad has already been refuted but yet this troll will keep arguing no matter what.. Anyway check the argument 6 in the link below.... I have quoted plenty of verses which clearly indicate that Muhammad is supposed to be followed. 33:40 clearly says that Muhammad is a prophet (Nabi) as well as a messenger.
skynightblaze wrote:I beginning to think that this person really has some mental problem. May be it's serious . Either he is a troll of BMZ's caliber or else he has some serious mental issues.
MbL wrote:Go look up Shakir's translations. He uses Apostle.
MbL wrote:if both sources are biased, it still proves I didn't make it up and your accusation is completely ridiculous
The text was provided by the Online Book Initiative and subsequently marked up at the HTI in SGML.
Like all the versions of this text derived from the Online Book Initiative, it is not free from errors....
MbL wrote:The Cat wrote:Tell us how the Donatist massacre or of the Cathars, for example, were figurative...
Where did Jesus tell them to do that?
enceladus wrote:Gooood question......![]()
It sure has me puzzled. I saw a video a few days ago which said that there's a verse in the Quran which says that non-Muslims have seven intestines!![]()
It is **as plain as the light of day** (to us Westerners) that Mo was a fake.
That he said that the verses "came from Allah" simply to give some semblance of "authority"
to his nonsense.
That "Allah" was nothing more than Mo's "puppet", who Mo used to spew out nonsense when he needed it (just like Mr Garrison used Mr Hat in South Park..... ).
- enceladus
skynightblaze wrote:Alex wrote:I see! Thanks for the answer! To better understand, I will reread afterward as well!
The whole Qur'an is mistake after mistake, contradiction after contradiction, irrational twist after irrational twist and then just plane changing words (Allah said). Why do Muslims believe in the Qur'an when its so clear it cannot be trusted? This man never committed any miracles and Allah said he didn't, he never did anything good, he never stopped bad things, he married children and had sex with them, was sexist and racist, hateful and angry and had a brain disorder. I mean he goes to a cave and leaves...and then says "I'm a prophet!" and people believe him? It must have been so easy to become a militant leader in those times.![]()
How can they even trust the Qur'an even 1%?![]()
Yes, I hope someone comes in here to clear it up.
To understand why people believe in absurdities one has to understand "cults". Muslims believe that probably world will be upside down if they even think for a moment that Islam is a lie. Really Allah has sealed their hearts.
The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:Go look up Shakir's translations. He uses Apostle.
Wrong. The site you relied on gave a false rendition.
On 3.32 (for example) it's Shakir messenger not apostle. They wrongly taught it meant the same (?), as you did...
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/quran/
003.032
YUSUFALI: Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger":
PICKTHAL: Say: Obey Allah and the messenger
SHAKIR: Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger
Ect, etc.
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/3/32/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/13/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/4/80/default.htm
The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:if both sources are biased, it still proves I didn't make it up and your accusation is completely ridiculous
What's ridiculous is to rely on spurious Muslim's versions of Shakir! The Michigan text is just a reproduction...
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/The text was provided by the Online Book Initiative and subsequently marked up at the HTI in SGML.
Like all the versions of this text derived from the Online Book Initiative, it is not free from errors....
That's your bad.
The Cat wrote:MbL wrote:The Cat wrote:Tell us how the Donatist massacre or of the Cathars, for example, were figurative...
Where did Jesus tell them to do that?
Matthew 10.33-34:
10.33: But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10.34: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
The Cat wrote:Luke
12.47: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
12.48: But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.....
The Cat wrote:12.49: I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
The Cat wrote:14.23: And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
The Cat wrote:14.26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Some of these verses were used by Augustine to justify his notion of a 'just (holy) war'.
MbL wrote:This started by you accusing me of fabricating it, right?? Was that a mistake?
it's your bad because you accused me of being a liar and making it up.
MbL wrote:And you take that literally.
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