Who was Haman

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

iffo wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
Sure, go ahead. But you realize that if you do that, then you have to also answer the problems in the Quran, like it mistakenly taking the Trinity to include Mary. You never answered that.
Christian boy for starters here is a scientific master piere.
Geneses 1
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Before I answer any of this, do you agree to answer any of the problems I raise about the Quran??
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iffo
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by iffo »

off course

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skynightblaze
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by skynightblaze »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote: Well of course. I only said two possible answers so that the Cat would give us his answer. And he did. It was number two when he talked about the earth's surface being smooth relative to the size of the earth. But, it's illogical to think that Allah smoothed the surface of the earth, and hence smoothed the mountains out, only to add the mountains afterwards. I even gave him a hint by making sure I included the part of the verses I quoted where it even said Allah added the mountains, but surprisingly, he wasn't clever enough to see the hint. Don't you remember where I said he's about ready to paint himself into a corner and said that I think he knows that?? Well, apparently, he didn't know that. Go back and read all of my posts and you'll see where I was going the whole time. It's obvious. This guy is not nearly as bright as he fancies himself to be and he covers that fact by acting like an intellectual snob. He's an intellectual wannabe. Those are the people who act like snobs to cover their own inadequacies.
Ok . I can now see where you are going with this. I did read your previous post but I couldn't link to where it was going but now I can see clearly. In his desperate attempts to save quran he claims that Allah smoothed the earth. This would mean that mountains were put later. Well I think this guy is a graduate from Harvard. :lol: . Time and again he confirms that he is not at all smart as he is considered by others.He has serious problems with logic and coherence. Another gem from him was "islam is older than quran and he quotes quranic verses to prove this :lol: . I have never seen anyone so poor as him at FFI.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by The Cat »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
The Cat wrote:
skynightblaze wrote: See the definition of spread out... :sleeping:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
spread [spred] Show IPA verb, spread, spread·ing, noun, adjective verb (used with object)
1. to draw, stretch, or open out, especially over a flat surface, as something rolled or folded (often followed by out ).
This is getting embarrassing to watch.
Look who's embarrassing himself! Since 'especially' never meant exclusively!

I asked about the definition of 'to spread out' and MbL comes with a definition for 'to spread'!
And even so for 'to spread' we've got (depending on the context):
--to distribute over a greater or a relatively great area of space or time, and
--to display or exhibit the full extent of; set out in full.

To Draw
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/draw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--To cause to move after or toward one by applying continuous force
--To cause to move in a given direction or to a given position, as by leading
--To move or pull so as to cover or uncover something
--To move or pull so as to cover or uncover something

To Stretch
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stretch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--To lengthen, widen, or distend
--To cause to extend from one place to another or across a given space
--To make taut; tighten: stretched the tarpaulin until it ripped
--To reach or put forth; extend: stretched out his hand
--To extend (oneself or one's limbs, for example) to full length.

The art of sophist deception in full light! Absolutely nothing to do with flatness...

Then back to Edward Lane's Lexicon (daha), The reference:
He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and
made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs.


Wide
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Having a specified extent from side to side
--Broad, extending over a great distance from side to side
--Having great extent or range, including much or many
--Fully open or extended

Ample
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ample" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Of large and great size, amount, extent, or capacity
--Large in degree, kind, or quantity
--More than enough
--Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose
--Abundant, sufficient, plenteous, broad, generous, lavish, roomy

Again, nothing to do with flatness, except for our team of sophists, looking at the wrong side of their binocular.
It never was meant as the flat shape of a carpet, BUT carpeted as in a cozy place (abundant, fully sufficient, etc).
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by The Cat »

skynightblaze wrote:Dahaha means spreading out like a nest of Ostrich. The later part that its referring to hospitality is your and their invention and I don't subscribe to it.... The earth doesnt provide hospitality because its not smooth and nor does it provide hospitality like carpet and hence your pathetic attempt should be discarded which leaves us with the only possible interpretation that quran is talking about flat earth.
What does the ostrich? She smoothed the ground to make it hospitable, the essence of a nest (bed or cradle).
Thus the ostrich 'carpets' the place, couch-like, not to confound with the shape or size of a carpet as you do.

I've already given the definitions of 'smooth' (smoothed) and 'smoothen'
--To rid of obstructions. hindrances;
--To soothe or tranquilize, make calm; to refine.
--To polish, embellish; undergo a change.

When people start to twist the definition of words to force their purpose, that's... malevolence.
Even you should see how the earth is hospitable (nest-like) compared to Venus, the Moon or Mars.

Expanse, Spread out, Flatten; 15.19; 29.56; 51.48; 79.30.
viewtopic.php?p=161807#p161807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

The Cat wrote: I asked about the definition of 'to spread out' and MbL comes with a definition for 'to spread'!
Did you see the part where it even says often followed by out?? Spread and spread out are the same thing. Does someone spread something in or out?? Cretin. This is nothing but desperation at this point. You really are as arrogant as you sound and it must really kill you to realize the blunders you have made in this discussion.
The Cat wrote:
And even so for 'to spread' we've got (depending on the context):
--to distribute over a greater or a relatively great area of space or time, and
Does this make a shape more round or more flat?
The Cat wrote:
--to display or exhibit the full extent of; set out in full.
Allah didn't "exhibit" the full extent of the earth because nobody could see that. This is more desperation. You know you painted yourself int0o a corner when you began talking about the surface of the earth being smoothed out. Now you try to switch gears and sweep that under the rug. Sorry, it's not going to work. I'll say it once again, you're not nearly as bright as you fancy yourself to be and you walked right into this one after I even gave you clear hints of the error you were making. Basically, you stepped in your own sh!t.

The Cat wrote:
To Draw
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/draw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--To cause to move after or toward one by applying continuous force
--To cause to move in a given direction or to a given position, as by leading
--To move or pull so as to cover or uncover something
--To move or pull so as to cover or uncover something
Then maybe the Quran should have said Allah "drew" the earth out. Look at how many chances it had and yet it never used that word. Sorry, it isn't going to work.

The Cat wrote:
To Stretch
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stretch" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--To lengthen, widen, or distend
What happens to a shape when you lengthen it?
The Cat wrote:
--To cause to extend from one place to another or across a given space
What happens to a shape when you extend it? Does it get more round?
The Cat wrote: --To make taut; tighten: stretched the tarpaulin until it ripped
Yes, it must rip because it's getting increasingly round. :lol:
The Cat wrote: --To reach or put forth; extend: stretched out his hand
--To extend (oneself or one's limbs, for example) to full length.
What happens to the shape of one's arm when you extend it?? Does it get more round? What happens to the bicep?? Does it get rounder or flatter?
The Cat wrote: The art of sophist deception in full light! Absolutely nothing to do with flatness...
You know you got caught with your pants down but your fake arrogance won't allow you to admit it.
The Cat wrote: Then back to Edward Lane's Lexicon (daha), The reference:
He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and
made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs.
Earlier, you wrote my quote off as merely their opinion. Have you changed your mind?? I asked you before, were they right or was it merely their opinion?? You never answered that, you attempted to dance around it by acting like an arrogant, intellectual snob. You're nothing but a two bit, crazy charlatan. This is getting pathetically disgusting. How long do you think you can continue to attempt this nonsense before you thoroughly embarrass yourself in front of all your fans? You've had this beating coming for some time now. You fully deserve it. You simply are not as smart as you fancy yourself to be.
The Cat wrote: Wide
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Having a specified extent from side to side
--Broad, extending over a great distance from side to side
--Having great extent or range, including much or many
--Fully open or extended
Wide only refers to size, not shape. You are merely adding this to dilute your errors.
The Cat wrote: Ample
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ample" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Of large and great size, amount, extent, or capacity
--Large in degree, kind, or quantity
--More than enough
--Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose
--Abundant, sufficient, plenteous, broad, generous, lavish, roomy
Exactly which verse tells us that Allah made the earth ample?? You're the genius, right?? So why don't you tell the rest of the class the Arabic word for ample and show us where it is used.

The Cat wrote: Again, nothing to do with flatness, except for our team of sophists, looking at the wrong side of their binocular.
It never was meant as the flat shape of a carpet, BUT carpeted as in a cozy place (abundant, fully sufficient, etc).
You've already commented on the relative smoothness of the earth's surface. The smoother a surface becomes, the more flat that surface becomes. So Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth by smoothing the mountains out and then adding the mountains?????? Now, everybody is supposed to forget about your clear blunder?? I don't think so.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

The Cat wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Dahaha means spreading out like a nest of Ostrich. The later part that its referring to hospitality is your and their invention and I don't subscribe to it.... The earth doesnt provide hospitality because its not smooth and nor does it provide hospitality like carpet and hence your pathetic attempt should be discarded which leaves us with the only possible interpretation that quran is talking about flat earth.
What does the ostrich? She smoothed the ground to make it hospitable, the essence of a nest (bed or cradle).
She makes the pit so she can sit on the egg, cretin. How is a pit more hospitable for something inside an egg than any other piece of ground? This is pathetic.
Last edited by Muhammad bin Lyin on Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

iffo wrote:off course
So which problem do you see that the Quran didn't merely copy? Before you answer, remember something. Just because the Quran didn't copy the entire creation story and only some of it, don't you think it was the Quran's job to explicitly correct any errors rather than remaining silent?? Remaining silent is akin to agreement. This is the stupid little trick used by dishonest Muslims all of the time.
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skynightblaze
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by skynightblaze »

The Cat wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:Dahaha means spreading out like a nest of Ostrich. The later part that its referring to hospitality is your and their invention and I don't subscribe to it.... The earth doesnt provide hospitality because its not smooth and nor does it provide hospitality like carpet and hence your pathetic attempt should be discarded which leaves us with the only possible interpretation that quran is talking about flat earth.
What does the ostrich? She smoothed the ground to make it hospitable, the essence of a nest (bed or cradle). Thus the ostrich 'carpets' the place, couch-like, not to confound with the shape or size of a carpet as you do.
Ostrich doesn’t smoothen the ground for comfort. It does to hide its eggs so again you are wrong and hence we are left with only 1 option i.e. quran was talking how earth is like Dahaha i.e. flat like the nest of the earth. The place that the Ostrich prepares has got nothing to do with hospitality otherwise please tell us how hospitable or comfortable it becomes for the young ones of Ostrich when laid on flat surface rather than any other irregular surface?
The Cat wrote: I've already given the definitions of 'smooth' (smoothed) and 'smoothen'
--To rid of obstructions. hindrances;
--To soothe or tranquilize, make calm; to refine.
--To polish, embellish; undergo a change.
Its plain wrong to quote multiple meanings associated with an english word after its translation from any language to english. To understand what I just said lets see an example. For e.g If I say “Spardha ” in “MARATHI” (my mother tongue) then it means competition. Now if a translator translates what I say in english he may use the word “race”. Now the word race in english can mean “division of mankind based on some common characteristics” SO would it be correct to say what I said in Marathi may mean division of mankind based on some common characteristics?? The answer is obviously no because I never intended to talk about human race but rather I intended to talk about competition. Therefore unless you tell us what sense the Arabic word was used it makes no sense to quote english dictionaries.
What is the Arabic word used and what does it convey?
The Cat wrote: When people start to twist the definition of words to force their purpose, that's... malevolence.
Even you should see how the earth is hospitable (nest-like) compared to Venus, the Moon or Mars.
First of all quran makes no relative comparison and it never said earth is better than Venus or Mars. Now earth's surface is no way similar to the surface of a cradle or bed and hence the comfort offered by cradle or bed can no way be similar to the comfort offered by earth;s surface so you a create problem for yourself if you try to manipulate the verse that way. When the meaning proposed by you creates another problem you can be sure that you are lying or bu!shittin!
The Cat wrote: Expanse, Spread out, Flatten; 15.19; 29.56; 51.48; 79.30.
viewtopic.php?p=161807#p161807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Even if we consider the meanings in your link it no way makes the earth's shape as round.
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by The Cat »

MbL wrote: You know you painted yourself int0o a corner when you began talking about the surface of the earth being smoothed out..... What happens to a shape when you extend it? Does it get more round?.... Wide only refers to size, not shape. You are merely adding this to dilute your errors..... Exactly which verse tells us that Allah made the earth ample?? You're the genius, right?? So why don't you tell the rest of the class the Arabic word for ample and show us where it is used.... You've already commented on the relative smoothness of the earth's surface. The smoother a surface becomes, the more flat that surface becomes. So Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth by smoothing the mountains out and then adding the mountains?
You've been call on this. There's NO 'smoothed out' as in your deception.
viewtopic.php?p=161961#p161961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then see, again the meanings of smoothed just above.
--To rid of obstructions. hindrances;
--To soothe or tranquilize, make calm; to refine.
--To polish, embellish; undergo a change.

Dahaha has nothing to do with shape, and I've defined 'wide' and 'ample' because they come from
Lane's Lexicon for daha, The Reference.
He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and
made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs.
Wide
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Having a specified extent from side to side
--Broad, extending over a great distance from side to side
--Having great extent or range, including much or many
--Fully open or extended

Ample
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ample" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Of large and great size, amount, extent, or capacity
--Large in degree, kind, or quantity
--More than enough
--Fully sufficient to meet a need or purpose
--Abundant, sufficient, plenteous, broad, generous, lavish, roomy

Again, nothing to do with flatness, except for our team of sophists, looking at the wrong side of their binocular.
It never was meant as the flat shape of a carpet, BUT carpeted as in a cozy place (abundant, fully sufficient, etc).
The ostrich makes a smoothed nest, a resting-place for the eggs. It's shape has not much importance.

It's all too clear, again in 2.22 which use a synonymous for dahaha (firashan, same as 51.48):

2.22 (...lakumu al-arda firashan...)
Asad: who has made the earth a resting-place for you
Y. Ali: Who has made the earth your couch
Pickthall: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you,
Shakir: Who made the earth a resting place for you;

Clearly here AGAIN, the idea is that the earth was made like a nest for mankind, nothing with form or shape.

51.48 (Waal-arda farashnaha faniAAma almahidoona)
Asad: And the earth have We spread out wide and how well have We ordered it!
Y. Ali: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth; How excellently We do spread out!
Pickthall: And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!
Shakir: And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.

Spread out is never intended as a shape, like of a carpet; it's related to a carpeted, couch-like floor.
Well ordered (Asad), excellently spacious (Ali), a gracious laid out (Pickthall), wide extent (Shakir).

Our sophist team will keep on shaping upon their carpet error, as expected. They lost...
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by The Cat »

skynightblaze wrote:
The Cat wrote: What does the ostrich? She smoothed the ground to make it hospitable, the essence of a nest (bed or cradle). Thus the ostrich 'carpets' the place, couch-like, not to confound with the shape or size of a carpet as you do.
Ostrich doesn’t smoothen the ground for comfort. It does to hide its eggs...
Not so much to hide them, which a part of security/comfort anyway, but since their nest is a communal affair,
it must be wide/ample enough to be comfortable so to accommodate up to 20 eggs.
skynightblaze wrote:
The Cat wrote:I've already given the definitions of 'smooth' (smoothed) and 'smoothen'
--To rid of obstructions. hindrances;
--To soothe or tranquilize, make calm; to refine.
--To polish, embellish; undergo a change.
Its plain wrong to quote multiple meanings associated with an english word after its translation from any language to english.... Therefore unless you tell us what sense the Arabic word was used it makes no sense to quote english dictionaries. What is the Arabic word used and what does it convey?
That's a silly logic especially when confronted with some vague term such as 'dahaha' (spread out, wide, ample as per Lane's Lexicon).

Expanse, Spread out, Flatten. 15.19, 29.56, 51.48, 79.30
viewtopic.php?p=161807#p161807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
skynightblaze wrote:Even if we consider the meanings in your link it no way makes the earth's shape as round.
Nor flat.
skynightblaze wrote:
The Cat wrote:When people start to twist the definition of words to force their purpose, that's... malevolence.
Even you should see how the earth is hospitable (nest-like) compared to Venus, the Moon or Mars.
Now earth's surface is no way similar to the surface of a cradle or bed and hence the comfort offered by cradle or bed can no way be similar to the comfort offered by earth;s surface so you a create problem for yourself
Your problem is that you don't understand that nest, cradle, resting-place or bed were translating an allegory.
It's not the 'earth's surface' but the whole planet made as a bed or cradle for mankind, animals and vegetation.
Something unfound on the other planets we know of. So it's a couch-like place contrary to other planets.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

The Cat wrote:
MbL wrote: You know you painted yourself int0o a corner when you began talking about the surface of the earth being smoothed out..... What happens to a shape when you extend it? Does it get more round?.... Wide only refers to size, not shape. You are merely adding this to dilute your errors..... Exactly which verse tells us that Allah made the earth ample?? You're the genius, right?? So why don't you tell the rest of the class the Arabic word for ample and show us where it is used.... You've already commented on the relative smoothness of the earth's surface. The smoother a surface becomes, the more flat that surface becomes. So Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth by smoothing the mountains out and then adding the mountains?
You've been call on this. There's NO 'smoothed out' as in your deception.
viewtopic.php?p=161961#p161961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You youself talked about the smoothness of the earth's surface, and I asked you why and you have still yet to answer, charlatan.
The Cat wrote: Then see, again the meanings of smoothed just above.
--To rid of obstructions. hindrances;
What were the hindrances that were removed?
The Cat wrote: --To soothe or tranquilize, make calm; to refine.
That's talking about personal feelings, not the earth. It's talking about when one smooths things over with someone. Nice try charlatan. This is an absolute disgrace.
The Cat wrote: --To polish, embellish; undergo a change.
Polish exactly what and exactly how?
The Cat wrote: Dahaha has nothing to do with shape, and I've defined 'wide' and 'ample' because they come from
Lane's Lexicon for daha, The Reference.
He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and
made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs.
The ostrich spreads the dirt out and pats down on it. What happens to the dirt when the ostrich does this? Come on charlatan.
The Cat wrote: The ostrich makes a smoothed nest, a resting-place for the eggs. It's shape has no importance.
It's all too clear, again in 2.22 which use a synonymous for dahaha (firashan, same as 51.48):

2.22 (...lakumu al-arda firashan...)
Asad: who has made the earth a resting-place for you
Y. Ali: Who has made the earth your couch
Pickthall: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you,
Shakir: Who made the earth a resting place for you;
Yes, by flattening it out so that people can live on it. Last I checked, couches aren't round.
The Cat wrote: Clearly here AGAIN, the idea is that the earth was made like a nest for mankind, nothing with form or shape.
And yet it consistently uses a word, spread, which inherently means to make flatter to the extent it is spread in the case of a singular, physical object. I'll ask you one more time.
What did Allah do to make the earth more habitable?
The Cat wrote: 51.48 (Waal-arda farashnaha faniAAma almahidoona)
Asad: And the earth have We spread out wide and how well have We ordered it!
Y. Ali: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth; How excellently We do spread out!
Pickthall: And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!
Shakir: And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.

Spread out is never intended as a shape, like of a carpet; it's related to a carpeted, couch-like floor.
And what happens to a shape when you spread it out? It's says the earth itself was spread out like a carpet, and not a carpet was spread out around the earth. This is pathetic. I can't believe you would keep trying this utter nonsense.
The Cat wrote: Well ordered (Asad), excellently spacious (Ali), a gracious laid out (Pickthall), wide extent (Shakir).
That's exactly what I said in the very beginning. This verse makes perfect sense if we think that the author thought the earth was round like the sun and moon and Allah spread it out and flattened it out for a more spacious living area. Otherwise, it was thought that people would only be able to live on the very top of the earth if it remained a ball like the sun and moon.
The Cat wrote: Our sophist team will keep on shaping upon their carpet error, as expected. They lost...
Sure, if you merely make the claim of winning, everybody's supposed to believe you. :lotpot: You are truly out of your mind aren't you. What a stubborn liar you are. It really hurts that bad to admit a mistake, eh?
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

limited living space

Image

So what to do to make more living space and make it wider and make it more like a couch?? Spread it out like a pizza.

Image

:lol: :lol:
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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

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MbL wrote:And what happens to a shape when you spread it out? It's says the earth itself was spread out like a carpet.
Wrong. And we've seen how Y. Ali is alone in this allegory. So there's nothing about shape, not in 2.22, 15.19, 51.48, or elsewhere.

And I've shown your deceptive use of 'spread out' many times already. Between us, Lane's Lexicon makes you wrong. Get it??
MbL wrote: --You youself talked about the smoothness of the earth's surface, and I asked you why and you have still yet to answer.
--What were the hindrances that were removed?
--Polish exactly what and exactly how?
--Allah didn't "exhibit" the full extent of the earth because nobody could see that
Help yourself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

iffo
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by iffo »

Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
iffo wrote:off course
So which problem do you see that the Quran didn't merely copy? Before you answer, remember something. Just because the Quran didn't copy the entire creation story and only some of it, don't you think it was the Quran's job to explicitly correct any errors rather than remaining silent?? Remaining silent is akin to agreement. This is the stupid little trick used by dishonest Muslims all of the time.
Forget Quran. Learn to defend your religion like a man which I want to make you one day
.
You explain me how do you explain the nonsense in Geneses1 christian boy?, what sh!t your holy book is talking about here. Do not argue with me just for the sake of arguing and waste my precious time.

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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

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iffo wrote:
Muhammad bin Lyin wrote:
iffo wrote:off course
So which problem do you see that the Quran didn't merely copy? Before you answer, remember something. Just because the Quran didn't copy the entire creation story and only some of it, don't you think it was the Quran's job to explicitly correct any errors rather than remaining silent?? Remaining silent is akin to agreement. This is the stupid little trick used by dishonest Muslims all of the time.
Forget Quran.
But you already agreed that you would answer problems in the Quran if I answer problems in the Bible. Now you back away from it like the cheater you are and all Muslims seem to be. Cheating is good in Islam. It's considered clever rather than shameful.
iffo wrote: Learn to defend your religion like a man which I want to make you one day
.
You explain me how do you explain the nonsense in Geneses1 christian boy?, what sh!t your holy book is talking about here. Do not argue with me just for the sake of arguing and waste my precious time.
The story of Genesis was partly derived from stories that came before it. So which verses specifically are you talking about? Even if there are verses that are dubious, the Bible is a modular collection of books over thousands of years. We could get rid of the entire book of Genesis and still keep the rest of the Bible. It's not my fault that Muhammad claimed the Quran to be the letter for letter dictation of Allah, and therefore, one mistake, just one, and the entire thing becomes a lie. I didn't make that rule up and decide to portray the Quran this way by writing it in first person form rather than writing it as a narrator retelling a story. Muhammad made that up. So blame him for the pickle you inevitably find yourself in. What was supposed to be the Quran's ultimate strength ultimately turns out to be it's ultimate weakness. Muhammad wasn't a very good thinker and didn't think things through very well.
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Muhammad bin Lyin
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Re: Who was Haman

Post by Muhammad bin Lyin »

The Cat wrote:
MbL wrote:And what happens to a shape when you spread it out? It's says the earth itself was spread out like a carpet.
Wrong. And we've seen how Y. Ali is alone in this allegory. So there's nothing about shape, not in 2.22, 15.19, 51.48, or elsewhere.

And I've shown your deceptive use of 'spread out' many times already. Between us, Lane's Lexicon makes you wrong. Get it??
MbL wrote: --You youself talked about the smoothness of the earth's surface, and I asked you why and you have still yet to answer.
--What were the hindrances that were removed?
--Polish exactly what and exactly how?
--Allah didn't "exhibit" the full extent of the earth because nobody could see that
Help yourself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You keep trying to sidestep and it's not going to work. The wiki definition of the earth does nothing to explain what YOU say. This is nothing but a fully transparent and shameful attempt at sidestepping. Would you please simply answer the questions?? What were the hindrances that were removed?? You bring up the alternate definition of spreading out of removing hinderances, and then you refuse to specify which hindrances you are talking about. What happens to the shape of a singular, physical object when you spread it out? I would say that the spreading of a balloon would really be called "expansion" and we find that word in the Quran, but it used that word for the heavens, not the earth, because the heavens were considered round like a dome. So what else are we left with?? Spreading a single physical object ultimately entails making it more flat to the extent it is spread out. How can you deny that? If you're going to keep sidestepping, then just let me know and we can both save ourselves some time consider the conversation settled. Otherwise, you're not going to BS your way out of this. What you are attempting is an insult to anybody's intelligence, and you must be insane if you think it even has a remote chance of working.

Now, let's even entertain your silly sidestep. Here's what the article says about the earth's habitability, a word you have continually used
Habitability
See also: Planetary habitability

A planet that can sustain life is termed habitable, even if life did not originate there. The Earth provides liquid water—an environment where complex organic molecules can assemble and interact, and sufficient energy to sustain metabolism.[150] The distance of the Earth from the Sun, as well as its orbital eccentricity, rate of rotation, axial tilt, geological history, sustaining atmosphere and protective magnetic field all contribute to the current climactic conditions at the surface.[151]
So where is "spreading out" as something making it habitable? So why did the earth need to be spread out in order to make it habitable?
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The Cat
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Re: Who was Haman

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MbL wrote:
The Cat wrote:Wrong. And we've seen how Y. Ali is alone in this allegory. So there's nothing about shape, not in 2.22, 15.19, 51.48, or elsewhere.

And I've shown your deceptive use of 'spread out' many times already. Between us, Lane's Lexicon makes you wrong. Get it??
Spreading a single physical object ultimately entails making it more flat to the extent it is spread out. How can you deny that?.... So where is "spreading out" as something making it habitable? So why did the earth need to be spread out in order to make it habitable?
This is of course your main argument and it's plainy wrong, as per the definitions of 'spread out', that of E. Lane, and the context.

Let's check it one last time for, as far as I am concerned, you both stand flat!
From: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Spoiler! :
2.22
Firashan = resting place

15.19
And the earth We have spread it (madadnaha)

20.53
Madhan = bed

29.56
Wasi'atun = (is) spacious.

43.10
The One Who made for you the earth a bed (l-arda mahdan)

51.48
Wal-arda farashanaha = And the earth We have spread it.

71.19
And Allah made for you the earth an expanse (l-arda bisatan)

78.6
Have not We made the earth a resting place? (l-arda mihadan)

79.13
Dahaha = He spread it

88.20
And towards the earth, how it is spread out? (sutihat)

Edward Lane's Lexicon, on Daha...
--He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended
--He (God) made the earth wide, or ample;
--also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, and made wide...
viewtopic.php?p=161807#p161807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of 'spread out', we find (1) Diffuse; (2) Arrange/set up; (3) Scatter; (4) Expand/dispread.

Diffuse
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/diffuse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
diffuse - Based on Latin diffundere, "pour out," from fundere, "pour," it means "to spread out."

--To pour out and cause to spread freely; To spread about or scatter, disseminate; soften.
--To become widely dispersed, spread out. Widely spread or scattered.
--To spread or cause to spread in all directions
--To undergo or cause to undergo diffusion
--To scatter or cause to scatter, disseminate, disperse
--Spread out over a wide area

And so an ostrich spread out its nest, ie. make it wide, ample, expanded, to comfortably suit a communal purpose.

Clearly to spread out is to diffuse, causing diffusion. Nothing to do with round/flat; but wide, ample, expanded for comfort.

Our skating sophists, out of arrogance, will stay... flat.
It's there for everyone to see...
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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Re: Who was Haman

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MBL wrote:Sure, if you merely make the claim of winning, everybody's supposed to believe you. :lotpot: You are truly out of your mind aren't you. What a stubborn liar you are. It really hurts that bad to admit a mistake, eh?
He does this all the time when quran is shown in error. I have no doubt now that he is a quran alone muslim. HE defends Muhammad and quran every single time . I don't think I am exaggerating here . The evidence is simply too much. Now he simply cant hide his beliefs and his posts drip with evidence that he is a quran alone muslim. Now just for a second think.. WOuld any kafir in wildest of their dreams claim that islam is older than quran?
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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Re: Who was Haman

Post by skynightblaze »

The Cat wrote:
skynightblaze wrote:
The Cat wrote: What does the ostrich? She smoothed the ground to make it hospitable, the essence of a nest (bed or cradle). Thus the ostrich 'carpets' the place, couch-like, not to confound with the shape or size of a carpet as you do.
Ostrich doesn’t smoothen the ground for comfort. It does to hide its eggs...
Not so much to hide them, which a part of security/comfort anyway, but since their nest is a communal affair,
it must be wide/ample enough to be comfortable so to accommodate up to 20 eggs.
Are you trying to tell me that earth was spread out to give security? How in the world can anyone get security because of spreading? Remember the verse talks about spreading out. These words cannot be ignored.

Btw what's so special about the nest of an OStrich to mention it if quran merely wanted to say that earth is a comfortable place?? The comfort factor can be said in case of any nest or any place that is flat. Why single out Ostrich;s nest?

The Cat wrote:
That's a silly logic especially when confronted with some vague term such as 'dahaha' (spread out, wide, ample as per Lane's Lexicon).

Expanse, Spread out, Flatten. 15.19, 29.56, 51.48, 79.30
viewtopic.php?p=161807#p161807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
how about the tafsirs?? They clearly state what the verses in connection mean. You should have no problem in accepting them because you claim that you take them as historical sources.
skynightblaze wrote:Even if we consider the meanings in your link it no way makes the earth's shape as round.
Nor flat. [/quote]

You perhaps didn't understand that If its not round then quran is proven to be in error. It woudn't even matter if it wasnt talking about a flat shape. Not round implies quran is talking about some different shape which is erroneous.
The Cat wrote: Your problem is that you don't understand that nest, cradle, resting-place or bed were translating an allegory.
The allegory has to make sense. Its a stupid allegory if it referred to the nest of OStrich to indicate comfort because same can be said about any place that is spacious. Ostrich;s nest is not unique howeever it would act as unique and an appropriate analogy if quran was talking about HOW ALLAH FLATTENED THE Earth just as a OSTRICH would flatten the ground to lay its eggs.
The Cat wrote:It's not the 'earth's surface' but the whole planet made as a bed or cradle for mankind, animals and vegetation.Something unfound on the other planets we know of. So it's a couch-like place contrary to other planets.
There is a huge difference between saying EArth is like cradle and bed AND saying EArth is comfortable like Cradle and bed. All the verses say is EArth is spread out like a cradle or bed .
Look around yourself and you'll find people with virtues are never required to demand respect since they automatically earn it. It is only those that are devoid of any virtues need to threaten and bully to gain respect. Needless to say that quran cannot be from God.

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