Who was Haman

[skynightblaze]

You're but a sophist,

How can you possibly take yourself seriously?? It's ironic, but it's usually the people that try to sound intelligent and behave with snobbery that are the least intelligent.

Actually the more you debate this person the more you understand that he is nothing but an empty vessel. Pretense and show is all this con man puts when he crafts his posts.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

First you try to write off what I quoted as merely their opinion. Then, when convenient, you acknowledge it's talking about what the mother ostrich does.

Nice job on catching this con man.He uses double standards. On the other thread he dismisses the entire ahadith as fabrications and yet at the same time quotes them especially when it suits his position . Also good job on refuting this con man who tried to protect the quran by claiming that these verses are referring to comfort when it talks about EARTH being like a cradle or carpet..

Didn't he also, at one point, challenge Yusuf Ali's use of the word carpet and then, in his last post, use carpet as something legitimate?? This guy is a moving target, so what you have to do is to ask him very clear and specific questions that require very specific answers. Then, you sit back and watch the Shirley Temple tap dance.



What's the most disturbing is that he insults people's intelligence by thinking he could possibly get away with these ridiculous, far fetched excuses. He was on the board about 15 minutes ago so he saw my posts. Looks like he chose to run away or go back to the lab to see if he can invent another concoction. This guy is about to paint himself into a corner and I think he's starting to see that.

[The Cat]

Again, as demonstrated in 15.19; 79.30; 29.56; 51.48 and 43.10 the idea of spreading out like an ostrich is to make a cozy, carpeted place.

but there are other verses which talk about SPREADING of the earth where no carpet, no bed or no cradle is mentioned. So do you accept that EARTH IS FLAT according to quran? More ever how about accepting Tafsirs??

Senile comment. Find me other verses... stating that spread out could mean 'flatness'... deceiver.

[The Cat]

Why is it saying WIDE if it is merely referring to comfort?? It's not talking about comfort

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Having a specified extent from side to side.
--Extending over a great distance from side to side; broad
--Fully open or extended.
--Over a great distance; extensively
--To the full extent; completely.

All of these verses, altogether, confirms that the idea carried is of spreading out a carpeted, hospitable place.
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/13/3/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/15/19/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/50/7/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/55/10/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/71/19/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You just have to check the overall translations to be sure about the meaning: A smoothed place.

OK, so by smoothing it, are you saying he smoothed out the outer surface of the earth, i.e. the ground? He smoothed out the hills? What exactly ARE you saying? What did Allah do to make the earth more comfortable for us? Be specific. Thank you.

Your quote proves my point. As for the rest, you really should look into dictionaries once in a while. You'd know what you're talking about.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smooth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (smoothed)
1. To make (something) even, level, or unwrinkled.
2. To rid of obstructions, hindrances, or difficulties.
3. To soothe or tranquilize; make calm.
4. To make less harsh or crude; refine.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smoothen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Change surface; polish; beautify, embellish; undergo a change.

First you try to write off what I quoted as merely their opinion. Then, when convenient, you acknowledge it's talking about what the mother ostrich does. She spreads the dirt out and flattens it, as the article correctly said. So which is it?? Does it refer to a mother ostrich spreading out the dirt and stamping on it to flatten it?

Plain and mere skating sophistry again.
http://en.islamtoday.net/node/667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In any case, verse 30 of Sûrah al-Nâzi`ât – that mentions the verb dahâ in reference to the Earth – is not discussing the shape
of the Earth at all. It cannot be used as proof that the Earth is flat or round or egg-shaped. The verse is silent on the matter.....

We should also take this occasion to mention that the Earth is almost perfectly smooth. Its near-perfect smoothness is not
compromised by the contours of its crust. The highest mountains and deepest trenches of the crust are insignificant compared
to the vastness of the Earth's surface

.
Snb came to state that it was proving me wrong, while it confirms my statement.

Is I've said nothing but skating... as expected.

[The Cat]

good job on refuting this con man who tried to protect the quran by claiming that these verses are referring to comfort when it talks about EARTH being like a cradle or carpet..

So a carpet, a bed or a cradle isn't first of all a comfortable place, like a nest? It certainly doesn't refer to their flatness. :wacko:

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Why is it saying WIDE if it is merely referring to comfort?? It's not talking about comfort

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Having a specified extent from side to side.
--Extending over a great distance from side to side; broad
--Fully open or extended.
--Over a great distance; extensively
--To the full extent; completely.

All of these verses, altogether, confirms that the idea carried is of spreading out a carpeted, hospitable place.
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/13/3/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/15/19/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/50/7/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/55/10/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/71/19/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So what happens to said shape when it gets spread out?

You just have to check the overall translations to be sure about the meaning: A smoothed place.

Are you telling me that Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth?

OK, so by smoothing it, are you saying he smoothed out the outer surface of the earth, i.e. the ground? He smoothed out the hills? What exactly ARE you saying? What did Allah do to make the earth more comfortable for us? Be specific. Thank you.

Your quote proves my point. As for the rest, you really should look into dictionaries once in a while. You'd know what you're talking about.

Are you talking about smoothing out the surface of the earth, i.e. flattening it's hills?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smooth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (smoothed)
1. To make (something) even, level, or unwrinkled.
2. To rid of obstructions, hindrances, or difficulties.
3. To soothe or tranquilize; make calm.
4. To make less harsh or crude; refine.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smoothen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Change surface; polish; beautify, embellish; undergo a change.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/smooth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

smooth
   [smooth] Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, adverb, verb, noun
adjective

adjective
1.
free from projections or unevenness of surface; not rough: smooth wood; a smooth road.
2.
generally flat or unruffled, as a calm sea.
3.
free from hairs or a hairy growth: a smooth cheek.
4.
of uniform consistency; free from lumps, as a batter, sauce, etc.
5.
free from or proceeding without abrupt curves, bends, etc.: a smooth ride.

verb
verb (used with object)
18.
to make smooth of surface, as by scraping, planing, or pressing.
19.
to remove (projections, ridges, wrinkles, etc.) in making something smooth (often followed by away or out ).
20.
to free from difficulties.
21.
to remove (obstacles) from a path (often followed by away ).
22.
to make more polished, elegant, or agreeable, as wording or manners.

So are you saying that Allah removed obstacles like hills?

First you try to write off what I quoted as merely their opinion. Then, when convenient, you acknowledge it's talking about what the mother ostrich does. She spreads the dirt out and flattens it, as the article correctly said. So which is it?? Does it refer to a mother ostrich spreading out the dirt and stamping on it to flatten it?

Plain and mere skating sophistry again.

Excuse me, but last I checked, snobbery does not constitute a legitimate answer. Don't even think for one second that you can merely hide behind snobbery. It simply doesn't work nor will it ever work.

http://en.islamtoday.net/node/667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In any case, verse 30 of Sûrah al-Nâzi`ât – that mentions the verb dahâ in reference to the Earth – is not discussing the shape
of the Earth at all. It cannot be used as proof that the Earth is flat or round or egg-shaped. The verse is silent on the matter.....

Well of course they're going to say that. They can't deny what the word actually means linguistically because they would get caught. So they have to admit what the word means and then they merely attempt to deny the implications of it's meaning. Did you actually expect them to outright admit it's referring to the earth as flat? So, the only option they have is to say that it's not referring to shape at all, because it never says it's round anywhere.

We should also take this occasion to mention that the Earth is almost perfectly smooth. Its near-perfect smoothness is not
compromised by the contours of its crust.

So are you saying that Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth, i.e. smoothed out the hills. Are you capable of a straightforward answer?

The highest mountains and deepest trenches of the crust are insignificant compared
to the vastness of the Earth's surface
Snb came to state that it was proving me wrong, while it confirms my statement.

OK, so you're saying that Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth. So he smoothed out the mountains and then added the mountains. Congratulations, you just painted yourself into a corner, genius.

13:3 (Asad) And it is He who has spread the earth wide and placed on it firm mountains
15:9 (Asad) And the earth -We have spread it out wide, and placed on it mountains firm,
50:7 (Asad) And the earth - We have spread it wide, and set upon it mountains firm

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

I even gave you a hint by including the part about the mountains in my quotes earlier rather than excluding it. You should have picked up on that, but you're not nearly as smart as you fancy yourself to be.

[The Cat]

The highest mountains and deepest trenches of the crust are insignificant compared
to the vastness of the Earth's surface
Snb came to state that it was proving me wrong, while it confirms my statement.

OK, so you're saying that Allah smoothed out the surface of the earth. So he smoothed out the mountains and then added the mountains. Congratulations, you just painted yourself into a corner, genius.

More sophistry. First that's a quote from YOUR link, mixed with my answer.
Then, God didn't smoothed to add, not even found in YOUR own link
Another skating sophistry. What else!

Plainly your article debunks you and snb about 'dahaha' as meaning either roundness or flatness of the earth. And so does the Koran.

Obviously you have nothing worthy to add.
Thanks for playing...

[skynightblaze]

good job on refuting this con man who tried to protect the quran by claiming that these verses are referring to comfort when it talks about EARTH being like a cradle or carpet..

So a carpet, a bed or a cradle isn't first of all a comfortable place, like a nest? It certainly doesn't refer to their flatness. :wacko:

Those verses clearly talk about shape of earth and not the hospitality . The surface of earth is never like a carpet because carpet/bed/ cradle are soft and can be said to provide hospitability while the surface of earth is hard and is sometimes completely uneven and it cant provide any hospitality .

[skynightblaze]

Again, as demonstrated in 15.19; 79.30; 29.56; 51.48 and 43.10 the idea of spreading out like an ostrich is to make a cozy, carpeted place.

but there are other verses which talk about SPREADING of the earth where no carpet, no bed or no cradle is mentioned. So do you accept that EARTH IS FLAT according to quran? More ever how about accepting Tafsirs??

Senile comment. Find me other verses... stating that spread out could mean 'flatness'... deceiver.

MBL has already done that job. There are dozens of verses which talk about earth being spread out without making a mention of cradle , bed or anything. Now answer a simple question which is the crux of the argument..

What shape does an object take when SPREAD OUT??

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Then, God didn't smoothed to add, not even found in YOUR own link
Another skating sophistry. What else!

Why did you talk about the smoothness of the surface of the earth?? Why would God smooth out the mountains and then add the mountains? Again, acting above it all simply is not going to work. I'll keep asking until you provide a legitimate explanation as anybody on a discussion forum should be expected to do.

[The Cat]

good job on refuting this con man who tried to protect the quran by claiming that these verses are referring to comfort when it talks about EARTH being like a cradle or carpet..

So a carpet, a bed or a cradle isn't first of all a comfortable place, like a nest? It certainly doesn't refer to their flatness. :wacko:

Those verses clearly talk about shape of earth and not the hospitality . The surface of earth is never like a carpet because carpet/bed/ cradle are soft and can be said to provide hospitability while the surface of earth is hard and is sometimes completely uneven and it cant provide any hospitality .

So the earth's too rough for comfort...

Again, the very article from MbL, which you acknowledged, debunks you.

And ALL the verses from the Koran I've quoted, in their overall meaning.

[The Cat]

Then, God didn't smoothed to add, not even found in YOUR own link
Another skating sophistry. What else!

Why did you talk about the smoothness of the surface of the earth?? Why would God smooth out the mountains and then add the mountains?

Where does it say that God 'smooth out' the mountains'

[The Cat]

There are dozens of verses which talk about earth being spread out without making a mention of cradle , bed or anything. Now answer a simple question which is the crux of the argument.. What shape does an object take when SPREAD OUT??

See the definition of spread out...

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Then, God didn't smoothed to add, not even found in YOUR own link
Another skating sophistry. What else!

Why did you talk about the smoothness of the surface of the earth?? Why would God smooth out the mountains and then add the mountains?

Where does it say that God 'smooth out' the mountains'

You yourself suggested it when you began to talk about how smooth the earth's surface is. Are you going to try to deny that?? Are you honestly that stubborn?? Come on, it's clear for anybody to see and it's all in writing. This is getting downright pathetic. So who's acting like the sophist little boy now?

[skynightblaze]

So the earth's too rough for comfort...

Again, the very article from MbL, which you acknowledged, debunks you.

And ALL the verses from the Koran I've quoted, in their overall meaning.

I agree with the meaning of the word Dahaha as told by them. Dahaha means spreading out like a nest of Ostrich. The later part that its referring to hospitality is your and their invention and I don't subscribe to it. The muslims in those article are obviously going to deny that its talking about the shape of earth and hence the acrobatics however they cant deny what Dahaha means. If your and their claim is that its talking about hospitality then its still wrong because comparison isn't appropriate. The earth doesnt provide hospitality because its not smooth and nor does it provide hospitality like carpet and hence your pathetic attempt should be discarded which leaves us with the only possible interpretation that quran is talking about flat earth.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

There are dozens of verses which talk about earth being spread out without making a mention of cradle , bed or anything. Now answer a simple question which is the crux of the argument.. What shape does an object take when SPREAD OUT??

See the definition of spread out...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

spread
   [spred] Show IPA verb, spread, spread·ing, noun, adjective
verb (used with object)
1.
to draw, stretch, or open out, especially over a flat surface, as something rolled or folded (often followed by out ).

This is getting embarrassing to watch.

[skynightblaze]

There's only two possible answers. In order to make the earth habitable Allah either
1) Flattened out the earth itself so that people can have plenty of space to live on a flat surface whereas they wouldn't have plenty of space if it was round (or so it was thought)
or
2) Flattened or smoothed out the land or outer crust of the earth

Since spread, in of itself, does not mean habitable, then there is no other possible meaning for those verses than the above two.

I think possibility 1 is the only correct one. The verses in question talk about the planet earth as a whole . When it refers to "Earth" it refers to the planet itself rather than a part of earth like the land or only the crust of earth i.e. excluding the water bodies. Quran also says Allah is the owner of Earth and heavens. Again it implies that its referring to Earth as a planet rather than only land or crust of earth otherwise it would mean that only land belongs to Allah and not other things like water bodies, trees,creatures etc.

Anyway in either of the case quran got it wrong.

and of course its embarrassing to watch him and that has been a feature of his debates.You simply can't imagine how stupid one can get.

Check this..
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=161970#p161970" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He is arguing that chapter 66 is referring to the honey incident rather than sex scandal of the prophet of islam.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

There's only two possible answers. In order to make the earth habitable Allah either
1) Flattened out the earth itself so that people can have plenty of space to live on a flat surface whereas they wouldn't have plenty of space if it was round (or so it was thought)
or
2) Flattened or smoothed out the land or outer crust of the earth

Since spread, in of itself, does not mean habitable, then there is no other possible meaning for those verses than the above two.

I think possibility 1 is the only correct one.

Well of course. I only said two possible answers so that the Cat would give us his answer. And he did. It was number two when he talked about the earth's surface being smooth relative to the size of the earth. But, it's illogical to think that Allah smoothed the surface of the earth, and hence smoothed the mountains out, only to add the mountains afterwards. I even gave him a hint by making sure I included the part of the verses I quoted where it even said Allah added the mountains, but surprisingly, he wasn't clever enough to see the hint. Don't you remember where I said he's about ready to paint himself into a corner and said that I think he knows that?? Well, apparently, he didn't know that. Go back and read all of my posts and you'll see where I was going the whole time. It's obvious. This guy is not nearly as bright as he fancies himself to be and he covers that fact by acting like an intellectual snob. He's an intellectual wannabe. Those are the people who act like snobs to cover their own inadequacies.

[iffo]

Sure, go ahead. But you realize that if you do that, then you have to also answer the problems in the Quran, like it mistakenly taking the Trinity to include Mary. You never answered that.

Christian boy for starters here is a scientific master piere.

Geneses 1
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
1:7 And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.