The Abraham/Ishmael Legend
This is roughly how it goes in the Islamic tradition (emphasizes mine)...
http://www.bible.ca/islam/library/islam ... peters.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2.158: Lo! As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the commandments (Sha'ā'iri*) of Allah. It is
therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House or visiteth it, to go around them.
*Sha'a'iri is much stronger than usually translated and the source of all that is lawful (ie. Sharia).
Related to Dushara, Arabic Dhu-Sha'ara, the Nabatean god of the mountain range 'Seir' in Edom.
http://www.guidedbiblestudies.com/topics/mount_seir.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
**Maqam (Gen.1.9; 19.27) place, earth. Hebrew Maqom: any godly place (ex. Qumran).
Any place in Abraham's journey. Fem. Mek-o-mah !
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/4725.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ibn Ishaq & Tabari recounts are but magnified versions of Gen.21.14-21 (adding 800 miles of torching desert, forth and back... etc):
Ibn Ishaq's account, see how birds dropped stones on the elephants of Abraha (etc)...And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba. And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bow shot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.
And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=ul73yY_ ... ib&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.therefinersfire.org/mecca.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
According to Islamic beliefs and tradition, the area between Assafa and Almarwa is the very place where Genesis 21:15-20 took place. Hagar (Allah's chosen wife for Abraham), was the first one who performed that ritual and was supposed to have made a wish to Allah to provide water for her son. Meanwhile, her little boy, who was sitting on the ground and crying, dug a hole in the sand and, miraculously, the water came out as a result of Allah's answer to Hagar's wish. Then, according to Islam, she called the well "Zamzam" (which means hush baby, don't cry anymore!) The story goes on to say that it was at that time Hagar realized why Allah sent her and her son to that desert place. It was supposedly the site where Allah's shrine had rested before. Later, it is said that Allah showed Ishmael and his father the black stone and commanded them to rebuild the shrine....
The Sira fabulation, like I've said, is but a magnified version of Gen.21.14-21...
It added 800 miles of torching desert, thus the need to insert Buraq in ! Abraham, Haggar, Ishmael... All on board.
That's the kind of lies Muhammadanism is based on, yet they do believe that! Yep, the biggest the lie is, the more...
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1483.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (excerpts)
Genesis 25.9: And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah,In order to resolve the preposterous suggestion that Abraham or Ishmael were ever at the place where Mecca was eventually built - 1200 kilometers from where Abraham actually lived - the most quoted 8th century Islamic "tradition" creators originated the idea that Abraham commuted back and forth to visit Ishmael in Mecca, on the winged camel, or Baraq (Tarikh al-Tabari, I, page 165). He also invoked this mythical animal to explain how Ishmael was able to attend Abraham's funeral, 1200 kilometers from Mecca.
in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which [is] before Mamre (Hebron).
Again, the 'convenient' Buraq is involved in that travel, forth and back, like in Hagar's travel to find him a wife...
Some videos on this topic...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ZAH6r8vHg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Muhammadans should check their sources: they have no ground whatsoever!
Abraham & Ishmael NEVER possibly could have built the Kaaba in... Mecca!!!
The Truth Behind Mecca & the Ka'aba (bad sound but great insights)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuhbvzhShv0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ishmael is hardly mentioned in the Koran (twelve times), mostly a name mentioned among others, not even in 37.100-113 dealing
with the Promised son. More troubling for Muslims is that his mother, Hagar, is never mentioned at all! Ishmael cannot be related
to Muhammad and even the Islamic tradition has it that Abraham sacrificed him through some journeys on 'Buraq'... !
Because the Islamic accounts clearly stated that Abraham left Hagar and Ishmael in Mecca, never to go back. Never?
''The Buraq was also said to transport Abraham (Ibrahim) when he visited his wife Hagar and son Ishmael. According to tradition,
Abraham lived with one wife in Syria, but the Buraq would transport him in the morning to Mecca to see his family there, and take
him back in the evening to his Syrian wife.'' -wikipedia, Buraq. (Ibn Ishaq "Tarikh al-Tabari", I).
This must be true (!?) otherwise, Abraham and Hagar traveled 800 miles of uncharted desert, some 900 years before history records the
first caravan route was ever established along the Red Sea. Then Abraham dropped them off under a tree in the middle of nowhere (that
is supposed to have eventually become Mecca), and then Abraham "set out" on his thousand mile walk back home. Never ever?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Vol2/4d.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Was Isaac or Ishmael to be sacrificied? by Sam ShamounIt is most significant to find the Qur'an once again taking no issue with the Bible and we read (surah 29.27): And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation (An-Nubūwata Wa Al-Kitāba), and we granted him his reward in this life: and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous. Yusuf Ali's translation is not strictly correct. The text says that God placed the Nubuwwah and the Kitaab, the Prophethood and the Scripture, into Isaac's line, and in another place the Qur'an says that al-Nubuwwah, the Prophethood, was expressly given to the Children of Israel (Surah 45.16).
http://www.answering-islam.org/Response ... /isaac.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Abraham and the Child of Sacrifice - Isaac or Ishmael? by Sam Shamoun
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/sacrifice.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sam Shamoun reports a testimony from Ibn al-Athir:* Isaac was the only promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with (cf. Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30). Ishmael was never a promised child.
* Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, with the Quran likewise agreeing (cf. Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30). Ishmael was conceived normally without the need of any miraculous intervention.
* God promised that it would be Isaac's descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. (Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14). Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.
It is for these reasons that Isaac is called Abraham's only son since God himself reckoned him as the child of promise and blessings, an honor never bestowed upon Ishmael.
''The nature of the Islamic traditions regarding the Sacrifice suggests that those locating the act in Syria and assuming Isaac to have been
the intended victim WERE THE EARLIEST...The opposing exegesis of the Ishmael-Mecca school served not only to explain difficult passages
of the Qur’an, but also to provide an acceptable origin for some of the important ritual acts of the Islamic Pilgrimage. The lapidation and
the sacrifice of the Pilgrimage, both holdovers from a pagan pre-Islamic past, WERE RE-INTERPRETED through the narrative exegesis of
the Sacrifice legend to derive from the pure and pristine monotheism of Abraham…'' (Pp. 150-151)
Muslims like to say that the Bible has been corrupted. Well what about their Ishmael/Mecca 'fantasy land' traditions?
viewtopic.php?p=97077#p97077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
19.58: These are they unto whom Allah showed favour from among the prophets, of the seed of Adam and of those whom We carried
along with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the revelations
of the Beneficent were recited unto them, they fell down, adoring and weeping.
Ishmael is NOT mentioned as from the rightful seed of Abraham which 19.49 ascertain AGAIN to be Isaac and Jacob. This is underline
again in 19.58: the seed is that of Abraham and Israel. Thus the Koran recognize the biblical account: Ishmael was the messenger send
to his nation, among hundreds of others, ruling out Muhammad as to the Arabs! Yet he's not the legitimate 'son of the Promise'.
37.112-113: --And we gave him tidings of the birth of Isaac, a prophet of the righteous. --And We blessed him and Isaac. And of their
seed are some who do good, and some who plainly wrong themselves.
Sarah is mentioned (by allusion) as the rightful mother and Hagar is not named even once in the whole Koran! 11:71-72:
And his wife, standing by laughed when We gave her good tidings (of the birth) of Isaac, and, after Isaac, of Jacob.
She said: Oh woe is me! Shall I bear a child when I am an old woman, and this my husband is an old man ? Lo! this is a strange thing!
The complete omission of Ishmael (and of Hagar) here talks volumes...
According to the Koran (and the Bible) it is Isaac who is of divine intervention (like Adam and Jesus), Ishmael is not. Period.
Now, according to the Koran itself, the line of prophethood and of -scriptures- is going from Noah to Abraham (Q.57.26), then
from Abraham to Isaac and Jacob (Q.29.27) and bani Israel (19:58): These are they unto whom Allah showed favour from among
the prophets, of the seed of Adam and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel.
Bani Israel means the whole Israelite people.
Isaac is mentioned many times as a child born from divine intervention, like Adam and Jesus.
But I ask: where is it stated in the Koran that Ishmael was from the rightful seed of Abraham?
Al-Tabari, looking upon the historicity of the debate, stated: "Only the Quran could serve as proof that the account naming Isaac
is clearly the more truthful of the two''. (Annals V2: p. 82). ''The Book does not mention any tidings of a male child given to
Abraham except in the instance where it refers to Isaac, in which God said, ‘And his wife, standing by laughed when we gave her
tidings of Isaac, and after Isaac, Jacob’, and ‘Then he became fearful of them’. They said. ‘Fear not!’ and gave him tidings of a
wise son. Then his wife approached, moaning, and smote her face, and cried, ‘A barren old woman’. Thus, wherever the Quran
mentions God giving tidings of the birth of a son to Abraham, it refers to Sarah (and thus to Isaac) and the same must be true of
God's words ‘So we gave him tidings of a gentle son’, as it is true of all such references in the Quran." (Ibid., p. 89).
http://mentalbondageinthenameofgod.word ... -in-mecca/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Ishmael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ishmael.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-a ... shmael.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://islamcomicbook.com/resources/ishmael.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.religionconflictpeace.org/node/51" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The myth of Mecca and how Muslims have been duped!
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/isl ... EEFLVV12OU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If Ishmael is the rightful prophet sent to the Arabs as per the fable, Muhammad can't be their own messenger!
End of the first part of a long stretch of them. Comments please in: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Next: How Nowadays Mecca Doesn't Fit the Bill !