Now firstly asking if he did not say he was wrong is what you call twisting the point regarding "authenticity" and "reliability". You are no better than what you claim I am, but of course you are wrong in claiming that because you can't prove your point and - I am not accusing you of lying but just of being block-headed. So shush.
Look, there is a reason why so many translators added the word may to the verses. And what he said explains why they did that perfectly. There's no twist at all.
You think that if you deny and twist enough that it will make you right.
There's no twisting and when I deny, I explain precisely why. i do not just make the claim or merely deny, I point out the clear reason that anybody should deny it. And so far, all of this is because you still don't have an answer to the problem that actually works, or otherwise, you would be typing that instead of this.
I know this game better than you
Game?? I thought we were trying to arrive at the truth?? Ahh, but you slipped, and that's OK, because i already know that Muslims don't think it's a discussion about what the truth is, but rather a little game to see who can be more clever. This is why you see them try all sorts of ideas, and when one doesn't work, they merely try another one as if the truth doesn't matter, what matters is something being effective to make the problem go away.
but it is hard to compete with someone who according to the time he has spent talking vanities (and not actually discussing Islam) has little better to do. I have seen it before.
Every angle you have tried so far has failed and it's been explained exactly why it has failed. So the problem is still on the table right at stage one. It's still there after all of this deflection you've tried.
Firstly it is no surprise that Allah (swt) says what He says in 9:30. We know that He has preferences just as He loves the just but not the unjust (these emotions are the best words to describe such that we can comprehend what we should do as explained to Brendalee). Hence in declaring "May I destroy them" He is simply re-emphasizing that He does not want the idolaters to triumph.
No, may involves a request of someone or something else, an optative statement. If somebody says "may I destroy them", they are wishing that God, someone else, or life's circumstances in general permit them to destroy them. Allah would not say that for that exact reason. And, it actually doesn't say "may I destroy them", it says "may Allah destroy them" which changes it from a request to one's self in the former, which is silly and I've explained why, to a request to someone or something else in the latter. which makes perfect sense.
We know that Allah (swt) lacks no certainty and hence it is a declaration of things to come.
Yes, we know that Allah lacks no uncertainty, and therefore it wasn't him talking.
If we interpret it your way: "Allah wishes to destroy them!", then that is no problem.
That isn't what it says. Why do you keep trying to alter it ever so slightly?? i know why. Because it's part of the game. This is a game of wits to you where honesty isn't required. You could care less about the truth, you only care about how to make it work for you. I didn't interpret it to mean "Allah wishes to destroy them" and this is yet another failed spin attempt. I interpreted it to mean Muhammad was wishing for Allah to destroy them. Spin attempt rejected once again.
It simply means it is Allah's will to destroy them, and therefore for the hundredth time it is a declaration of things to come.
No, it is a request to Allah that Allah destroy something, and Allah does not make requests to himself. Nobody does, and the example you keep trying keep failing and I point out exactly why. Its not my problem that your spin attempts have logical problems and therefore cannot add up or work. I'm just calling them like i see them
I explained this before but you evaded and misinterpreted and squirmed.
And I explained exactly why it is wrong, and I've done that here yet again. Just keep repeating and I'll keep repeating what is wrong with it. You're not going to get away with smoke and mirrors, and i hope you've realized that at this point.
.. Anyway as I said the word "may" connotes the permissiveness of something we know Allah (swt) can do.
Exactly the problem. Allah is permissive to himself?? But, of course if it's Muhammad asking that Allah do something, the verse makes perfect sense.
But let's take a step back for a moment. First you attack whether that verse is truly optative or not and attack the credentials of the person on that forum and a majority of the accepted translators, then, if that doesn't work, you try to alter the meaning of the words themselves. Which is it?? Is it not an optative statement, or is it an optative statement but it still works after it is properly altered by swapping may for let among other things?? And the answer is, "whichever one will work". That's what you are doing and make no mistake that I can see it clear as day. This means you are merely inventing whatever you think could work with little regard for whether it is actually true or not. Muslims are very well known for this. When one thing doesn't work, just merely try something else. So why isn't anybody supposed to think that you are merely making up any excuse your imagination can think of with little regard for truth nor even plausibility?
"May" can mean in this context "let" etc. "Let their be light"
But it doesn't say "let their be fight" it says "may Allah fight them. So the equivalent to your statement is "let Allah create light" or "may Allah create light", which makes no sense for Allah to be saying, while "let there be light" does make sense. Sorry, spin failed again, and for very logical and correct reasons that you simply did not consider, or were perhaps hoping that nobody else would consider.
for instance was Allah's (swt) wish to create light. Now He was not asking anyone else to let Him create it.
Right, because Allah isn't even mentioned in "let there be light", so your analogy is incorrect and therefore fails.
It's not going to work simply because it doesn't work. "May Allah fight them" is not "Let there be a fight". One is a declaration, as you said, and the other is a request, and requests are not made to one's self, they are always made to someone else
P.S. Keep talking and I will explain it to you each time.
And I'll explain the clear problems with your invention every time
In fact I will copy and paste if you keep it up.
Nope, sorry. You're not going to slip out of it. Just because you can invent an answer does not mean it is an acceptable answer. It has to be properly considered and scrutinized, and when we do that to your answers, they fail, and I explain precisely why. You seem to think that if you can create something, even if it's not correct or plausible, if it can't be proven 100% false, then people are supposed to accept it as true. Where do you get crackpot ideas like that from?? Who told you that? Every single thing you attempted had a hole in it. Every single one.
I said that we could agree to disagree
There's nothing to disagree about. You are merely inventing things that simply are not there.
but that does not satisfy you because it does not satisfy your mentality or give you "the hit".
It shouldn't satisfy any logic, rational, objective person. No reasonable mind would actually buy these acrobatics you are attempting as any reasonable mind can see through it right away, and in fact, I'm really not sure if you even buy it, but merely cross your fingers that we will buy it. It honestly would not surprise me if I found out that was true.
Now you will convince yourself you are arguing for a good cause, but keep such opinions to yourself or go peddle to a hadith-follower. I know psychology too.
Arriving at the truth is not a good cause??? YOU'RE the guy who thinks this is all a little game (as you've already called it) to see who can be the more clever deceiver, but I think nothing like that. I think this is why Muslims lie so much, because they assume you are lying and therefore they need to be a more clever liar. It's really twisted
In short: If you are serious, you will stop wasting your time. If you think you should argue this, then you are deluded. Either way is fine.
Nope. You don't think I've seen little escape excuses like this before?? Sorry, but the only way out is to give an answer that actually works and follows the language correctly, or to say that you don't know and it's a problem. For the fact that you are attempting this tells me that you actually know you don't have any good answers, so you need to discourage me from continuing the discussion. That's what you're REALLY telling us. We're not stupid here. We see through dumb little ploys such as this. Do you know how many Muslims have preceded you and tried the same exact tactic?? First it's argue about the Arabic, and when that doesn't work, argue about the clear meaning and alter it in any way they can imagine, and when that doesn't work, try to make the entire discussion pointless so that the other person will drop the issue.
The fact remains that not one single answer you have attempt has worked. Each of them had problems which were clearly and unmistakably pointed out. you're still at square one after attempting numerous angles. And why would more than one angle even be attempted?? Because you are inventing anything you think could make the problem go away with little regard for whether it's actually true or not.