Are these hadiths true WittyBoy?

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

The Cat says : Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.

And the Quran is every bit as bigoted and violent. I really don't see much difference. They both talk about violence and subjugation and oppression of "inferior" people.

Well whole Quran is NOT bigoted and violent, but there are verses in it that are bigoted and violent against those who question it.

Not all of Mein Kampf is violent either. So far, they are both on the same par.

If the Quran is sufficient on it's own, then what are we to make about all of the verses of violence??[/u]

Again, the verses that have voilent sayings will not stand on their own hence they need tafsir and hadith.

But the Quran doesn't need tafsir and hadiths and is completely self sufficient according to the pussy and BagHat

In fact some of the verses that have names/stories of people from earlier religions or the names from Muhammad's times also need OT and NT + Arabian Pagan stories of that time also need help to explain them.

But one has to realize that some verses such as what The Cat Quotes in this thread can stand themselves without any help ..for e.g. this one..

Surah Al-Fatiha verses 1 to 7

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. The Beneficent, the Merciful, Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help. Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

those sayings above do not need any help and stand on their own wording. So the context and even Muhammad is not necessary to explain them.

Yeah, "some" verses can stand by themselves, but the question isn't about "some" verses, it's about the Quran itself. And clearly it cannot stand on it's own in perhaps half of the cases. But again, none of this matters anyway as 63:4 clearly shows us it was Muhammad speaking in the Quran. It's kind of like a ventriloquist who forgets that his mouth is not supposed to be moving. So either way, Muslims are still following Muhammad. This is really a silly argument. It's like asking who is worse, a car thief or a house thief.

[skynightblaze]

And dear SKB., you mean to say Mein Kampf is authentic book, So the Hadith "BOOKS" also authentic??

No! I am arguing for authenticity of hadiths in islam .I would argue that Nazism without MEin kampf is incomplete just as islam is incomplete without the hadiths.This doesnt mean I agree with the content of Mein Kampf or of the hadiths.Now if anyone says that Mein Kampf is a part of Nazism its plain stupidity to accuse that fellow of supporting nazis.All he is doing is stating the truth. What I am doing here is saying hadiths are a part of Islam and I have been accused of upholding the values of hadiths.

[darth]

Mr. Muhammad was NOT author of Quran.

How do you know that? As far as it is recorded the quranic verses came out of the mouth of mo. Unless you are claiming that the entire quran is the work of different people cobbled together?

But one has to realize that some verses such as what The Cat Quotes in this thread can stand themselves without any help ..for e.g. this one

No one denies that there are many verses that can stand on their own.

There are also many verses that are reasonably peaceful (the early meccan ones)

However, the point that sky makes is that the quran in its entirety cannot stand on its own because plenty of verses require external source to comprehend. (And incidently even with external explanation some of the violent verses remain just that - violent verses). Similarly plenty of islamic practices are derived only from the hadiths (with perhaps very indirect reference in quran). This means that islam as a whole is dependent on both the quran and the hadiths.

Sure you can argue for a sanitized islam containing only the peaceful quranic verses. That would be a good thing but it would require the impossible for muslims - accepting that the quran is human work and not God's work

[piscohot]

The Quran command us to be clean and not filthy like you, consequently the men of authority (doctors) advised us that to be clean and not filthy like you we must circumcise our children


Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean, and the men of authority showed us how to be clean by implementing circumcision

Back to your cell, filthy inmate, your other filthy lover is waiting for you

You don't know the real reason for circumcision?
NAME ONE DOCTOR WHO ORDERED CIRCUMCISION.
keep lying, AhmedBag'o'sh!t.

This quran told you how to be clean?

004.043
O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.

The quran that told you DIRT IS CLEANER THAN WOMEN? Or the quran that told you to rub your hands with dirt AFTER you soiled your hands cleaning your arse and then rub your face with it?
Or the quran that tells you you got to clean yourself if you are ill BEFORE you pray (because Allah may catch the germs?).

I have read your explanations and I am impressed.

May I ask you why do you ridicule posters, who appear not to have any real knowledge?

well, posters here may be able to get some 'real' knowledge if muslims here do not keep lying everytime they run out of answers.

what are you impressed with? that there are doctors 1400 years ago who told muslims they must circumcise their children?


another muslim who think he's got knowledge exclusive to muslims.

[piscohot]

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean

I was taking a pee in a public toilet and standing next to a muslim in a line of urinals.
Can you imagine how disgusted i was when i see the braindead hold his penis (after he finished peeing) and walked to where the rows of taps were, and then with his right hand, scoop water from the running tap and drip it on his penis, the 'dirty' water splattering all over the floor.

stupid, inconsiderate braindead

and not the first i've seen who did this

[AhmedBahgat]

Ahmed decided to reply to filthy inmate piss

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean

I was taking a pee in a public toilet and standing next to a muslim in a line of urinals.
Can you imagine how disgusted i was when i see the braindead hold his penis

Look inmate, aren't you ashamed telling us about your homosexual encounters in public toilets?

You are indeed a shameless filthy inmate

You are dismissed

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Ahmed decided to reply to filthy inmate piss

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean

I was taking a pee in a public toilet and standing next to a muslim in a line of urinals.
Can you imagine how disgusted i was when i see the braindead hold his penis

Look inmate, aren't you ashamed telling us about your homosexual encounters in public toilets?

You are indeed a shameless filthy inmate

You are dismissed

And once again, nothing better to say, eh BagBitch??

[Centaur]

if allah was serious about mohammedans to being clean, under no circumstances he would have allowed muslims to have caveman beards.How much dirt is trapped in there ?The wudu is equally or more disgusting and makes you feel sick.But once you are brain dead it makes perfect sense.

[WittyBoy]

WittyBoy
I just proved that it wasn't directly after war. that's all

You proved nothing, few days even week or 2 is still after the war.

It's very different, you tried to show that Ali had sex with her directly after the war, which means she was very nervous and scattered and having sex with her would be by force, but i showed you that is very wrong, because Ali originally was in Madina and he traveled to Yemen to divide the booty, BTW, from when the news reached the prophet(pbuh) that khalid won the battle, and wanted the prophet to send someone, you have to put in consideration that khalid sent a messenger from Yemen to Madina, and then Ali traveled from Madina to Yemen, your clam has been refuted completely.

WittyBoy
What if the good treatment of her removed this enemity? what if this woman didn't feel this enemity towards Muslims at all? what if she found the life with Muslims better that her previous life? what if she liked Ali? We are talking about a single incident, so the situation can include many possibilities.

O yes treatment was great they gave her so many shawarmas and lamb meat to eat in few days or couple of weeks, that she forgot all about her previous life, her family, her friends, relatives, husband, brother or father who died or wounded in the war or became slaves

Again, Is that mentioned in this particular incident, donkey?

BTW attarction/desire and then having sex, we call it lust and fornication, and you flog people with 80 lashes for that.

wittyBoy

Attraction/Desire and then having sex results to a legitimate child belongs to a man who is responsible for him and his mother, and can't sell her, is a lawful relationship and it's a marriage but with a female captive not a free woman.

Yes its their bad luck they are not free so you can do fornication with them and its ok..... your Allah is ok with that as well .... and its not wrong and immoral. But if two free woman/man have pure sex on the bases of physical attraction & Attraction/Desire then its fornication...and you give them 80 lashes..... You realize you proving how stupid you & your religion is.

If they were free >> we can do fornication with them and it's OK?!! Do you use to utter nonsense after defeat?

WittyBoy
No i won't let you think, because when you think you come up with stupid results. Who said "all men"?? i told you one of some reasons. Money can lead one astray, a high position can lead one astray, ... etc.

Here you showing again and again how dishonest you are, by not giving a straight answer and dodging the subject. That's Mullahanas especial quality its in their blood. I asked you many time what is your defination of astray, you have any?

Is it so difficult for you, it's the deviation from the straight path. Can it mean something else?

WittyBoy
In certain situations, one won't say " i don't have money", he will go into all possible ways to get money, especially in that case, It would be very easy to get this money. Imagine that Israel took a Lebanon captive and asked for a ransom, if you asked any Lebanon to pay this ransom, he wouldn't save any money to pay it despite he doesn't know the captive.

NO it does not work like that...

I don't wait for you to tell me it works or not, i know what i say.

You were not there to say if they had money or not...

Whatever he has money or not. Even he doesn't have money, no one would refuse to help him.

just repeating same thing again and again proves you are a time waster

I'm just trying to make a fool understand, you can imagine how it's difficult.

when Ali was informed regarding a people who considered him to be god, he called them and asked them to refrain from such blasphemy. They refused to comply. This went on for three days. Till, finally, Ali ordered to dig a deep pit and burn a huge fire in it. The criminals were brought to the fire. Ali told them that if they do not agree to refrain from their blasphemy, they would be thrown in the fire. They persisted in their refusal and were, subsequently, thrown in the fire.

There is nothing here that one should burn them alive.

I showed you that it wasn't just apostasy, but they tried to make Ali a god, so Ali threatened them but they persisted, so he punished them this way and he didn't know that what he did the prophet has been forbidden, and forbidding that by the prophet is very enough to keep you silent.

I don't know what's your point writting it again.

Because you have neglected it completely.

You are proving you are not worthy of debate and start to bore me

Should i bring some sweets for you?

and others who left you and started debating among themselves.

Yes all members here left me alone crying, but you can't do so because it's your thread addressed to me, so keep on and don't look around you.

Al-Bukhari Volume 6 Number 7
And if a man's discharge proceeded that of the woman, then the child resembles the father, and if the woman's discharge proceeded that of the man, then the child resembles the mother.'

You should build an argument shows how this hadith is wrong, show me the right fact of how the child resembles his parents and how this one is wrong, but to throw the hadith and want me to build an argument against it, and then refute it too, your existence would be useless.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

if allah was serious about mohammedans to being clean, under no circumstances he would have allowed muslims to have caveman beards.How much dirt is trapped in there ?

Yessss, how much ees tropped een there??

[piscohot]

Ahmed decided to reply to filthy inmate piss

Again, you filthy kafir, The Quran command us to be clean

I was taking a pee in a public toilet and standing next to a muslim in a line of urinals.
Can you imagine how disgusted i was when i see the braindead hold his penis

Look inmate, aren't you ashamed telling us about your homosexual encounters in public toilets?

You are indeed a shameless filthy inmate

You are dismissed

I'm curious about this though: 004.043
O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.


if Allah wanted you to be clean, shouldn't He ordered you to rub sand into your crotch too? Afterall, that part would be the dirtiest compared to your hands and face since it was in contact with the most intimate part of those dirtier than dirt women?

just notice this too- Allah forgive again and again?

what kinda crap is this for a god who said he sealed the hearts of unbelievers or that he guides whomever he wills?

[piscohot]

Likewise is prayer, Quran command us to pray, the prophet showed us how to pray,

So who showed the prophet how to pray?
it's not in the quran.

I stated before many times that I would love to be killed by the sinful hands of al-Mushrikoon so they bear all my sins along with their sins

which verse of the quran said this?

[Ghalibkhastahaal]

I have read your explanations and I am impressed.

May I ask you why do you ridicule posters, who appear not to have any real knowledge?

well, posters here may be able to get some 'real' knowledge if muslims here do not keep lying everytime they run out of answers.

what are you impressed with? that there are doctors 1400 years ago who told muslims they must circumcise their children?


another muslim who think he's got knowledge exclusive to muslims.

Well, if you write better, I will appreciate you too. Having read your posts, I am not impressed.
You need to make some positive contributions and I see none coming from you.

[piscohot]

Well, if you write better, I will appreciate you too. Having read your posts, I am not impressed.
You need to make some positive contributions and I see none coming from you.

here's a positive contribiution.

when you find a book supposedly from god where he spent time telling you about his prophet's sex life, RUN!

As far away as you can.

[The Cat]

Do you mean that before circa 830 no one professed Islam?
Even the Mazhabs came before that. Were they un-Islamic?

How many times does one need to refute you so that you may get? they werent required because they had the first hand experience from muhammad especially the companions.Quran and hadiths were there in their hearts and sunna of muhammad was a common knowledge.Thats why we see some people in the hadiths mentioning this fact that the religious guidance may be lost and hence its required to be written down.

See how nul you truly are. You -constantly- mix up things from misreading and then construct your answer (like darth) from this misreading.
Now, where did I mention the companions or contemporary people you came up with? WHERE?

The date I've given is 8-3-0, which is about the time when the first 'sahih' hadiths appeared. Now the FOUR sunnite's schools of law
came in BEFORE that. It means in plain English logic: Were they then, that is before the Sahih hadiths became authoritative, un-Islamic?

This lack of logic, reflecting your own fantasy world, has been going throughout our debate. Still like your darth-chihuahua...

You can't disprove that we have no manuscript evidence of ANY early hadiths, and this silence is deafening for about two centuries,
which disprove the possibility that the prophet may have abrogated his asking NOT to write down any hadith.
For in that case we would have religiously preserved hadiths from the companions. We don't. Go figure...

You can't disprove that we actually have not a single hadith from Muhammad himself and that the looong ahad chain of transmission
(6 to10 narrators) is proving so. The so-called 'Sahih' hadiths aren't even, for at least 95% of them, of the mutawatir type (many
times corroborated). Some top Islamic scholars evaluated that there are no more than 110 hadiths of the mutawatir type. +/- 110 !

Neither can you disprove that the Koran interdicts any authoritative hadith for they aren't divine revelation. You relied on the
biased translation of verses (7.185, 12.111, 31.6; 45.6; 77.50) which avoided to transliterate the Arabic Ĥadīthin correctly.

More so, you won't find a single verse in the Koran stating that the previous scriptures were corrupted.

But most of all you now have to deal with the obvious felony of giving the hadiths authority. Let us check your 'logic'...

And... recognizing their legitimacy makes you morally responsible.
Same as if you'd recognized Mein Kampf's legitimacy or authority.
Although it is 'authentic'... its authenticity is a very different thing.
Recognizing its authenticity, you're truthfully endorsing the content.

Mein Kampf is an authentic book, but its authenticity is quite disgusting.
And so are you. At best, a pity.

I was not supposed to reply to you because your arguments are too poor to reply but it seems that I cant resist replying. Right now the pathetic thing is your logic. Please improve it .None is denying here that hadiths are criminal. All we are saying is they are the truth.

If you don't even properly understand the meaning of the words you use, you're are unfit to any logical construction.
Like a kid building his logo airplane without caring to read properly the instructions, that ends up with a total mess.

Now, you used the word AUTHENTICITY, didn't you?

The only point I want to make throughout this debate is hadiths are a part of islam . I am defending their authenticity and not the content.

And did it AGAIN, after I came up with an online definition for 'authenticity'

No! I am arguing for -authenticity- of hadiths in islam .

AGAIN, you haven't understood or pass through the dictionary definition I brought.
I'll quote some more from the same link. Now pay attention...
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/authenticity

Genuineness, legitimacy, believability, credibility, credibleness
- the quality of being believable or trustworthy.

1. genuineness, purity, realness, veritableness. Some factors have cast doubt on the statue's authenticity.
2. accuracy, truth, certainty, validity, reliability, legitimacy, verity, actuality, faithfulness, truthfulness, dependability, trustworthiness, authoritativeness, factualness The film's authenticity of detail has impressed critics.

Now read AGAIN, slowly, my redded remark:

And... recognizing their legitimacy makes you morally responsible.
Recognizing its authenticity, you're truthfully endorsing the content.

The term refers to their CONTENT, what they do talk about. The Bible, for example, is an authentic collection
of many books but its AUTHENTICITY is questionable and the subject of endless debates.

By using and repeating the word -authenticity- as opposed to content you have proven yourself unfit to any logical debate.
That is because you reconstruct EVERYTHING from your own fantasy world and holds it to be sacrosanct. That's DELUSION.

Your logic comes down to uphold its content as LEGITIMATE, accurate.
Then, logically, you become morally responsible for its outcome, such as:

Female circumcision

Marriage of genitally mutilated childbride

Stoning


You have disqualified yourself both ways:
Either you misconstrued your thoughts, time again, and so are unfit to debate, or not... which makes you an abjection.

I will deal with your darth-chihuahua later.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Yes Cat, 63:4, 63:4. I'm patient. I'll keep repeating it until you honestly acknowledge it. So go ahead and keep ignoring it, because it allows me to keep repeating that verse number for others to think about. It does not matter between the hadiths and the Quran because one involves the invention, and the other involves comment about the inventor. Although I always thought you were a pitifully arrogant, overly self impressed snot , I did think that you would have had enough intelligence as to not fall for Islam, but I guess not.

[The Cat]

I, and the Koraners such as AB and iffo, are much more a threat to nowadays 'Islam' than you can even conceive.
For the sake of blind hatred, the only thing you will achieve is uniting ALL kinds of Muslims/humanists against you.

But we're doing it within the Koran, siding with God (Allah) on this crucial topic that is the future. And it's workable !
Simply stated, we're anti-clerical (no priests, no rabbis, no imams)! Something like the 'sola scriptura' is bound to happen !
But this 'Sola Scriptura' must excludes the hadiths, as a fabrication from the Islamic clergy to detour rightful thoughts (Ijtihad).

In a soon-to-come thread I'll explain why it doesn't matter if the Koran is man-made or not. It'll be named: Allah is Law. Period.

For I found out that many posters (like you), being clueless when attacking the Koran, are like whipping the river.

[piscohot]

Allah is Law. Period.

For I found out that many posters (like you), being clueless when attacking the Koran, are like whipping the river.

thanks Cat.

remember to include pictures in your posts on the Laws of Allah, here are some i got for you.

024.002
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.


008.012
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."


005.038
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.


005.033
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;




You said to SNB,

Your logic comes down to uphold its content as LEGITIMATE, accurate.
Then, logically, you become morally responsible for its outcome, such as: Female circumcision, Marriage of genitally mutilated childbride,Stoning

are you morally responsible too for the outcome of upholding the Laws of Allah?
Are the above pictures much less morbid and cruel than the ones you posted such that the Laws of Allah appealed better to you than what's in the hadith?

maybe i'm just' whipping the river'.

Salam.

[iffo]

Al-Bukhari Volume 6 Number 7
And if a man's discharge proceeded that of the woman, then the child resembles the father, and if the woman's discharge proceeded that of the man, then the child resembles the mother.'

WittyBoy
You should build an argument shows how this hadith is wrong, show me the right fact of how the child resembles his parents and how this one is wrong, but to throw the hadith and want me to build an argument against it, and then refute it too, your existence would be useless.

Are you so out of touch that you don't know why child resembles father or mother, you want me to teach like a little boy? something you should know on your own. Is you half functioning brain tells you that resemblance depends on who ejaculates first?

WittyBoy
I showed you that it wasn't just apostasy, but they tried to make Ali a god, so Ali threatened them but they persisted, so he punished them this way and he didn't know that what he did the prophet has been forbidden, and forbidding that by the prophet is very enough to keep you silent.

So what if they called him god, still don't deserved to be burned. So Ali was a criminal here. Does it bother you at all Ali one of the greatest figure of your religion did this inhumane act? Or you are just inhumane as he was, that's why don't care ..

WittyBoy
Is it so difficult for you, it's the deviation from the straight path. Can it mean something else?

So You think just like your dumb prophet in that hadit thinks that most of the women do that, that's why there will be more women in hell. So men who are not in straight path in most cases its women fault. You are prime example of damaged brain, does this quality run in your Town?

iffo
Yes its their bad luck they are not free so you can do fornication with them and its ok..... your Allah is ok with that as well .... and its not wrong and immoral. But if two free woman/man have pure sex on the bases of physical attraction & Attraction/Desire then its fornication...and you give them 80 lashes..... You realize you proving how stupid you & your religion is.

WittyBoy
If they were free >> we can do fornication with them and it's OK?!! Do you use to utter nonsense after defeat?

Not sure what nonsense you wrote. Either you are dumb or acting dumb, or on drugs when you wrote this, to avoid what I said which was quite simple, don't have to rocket scientist to understand.

WittyBoy
Again, Is that mentioned in this particular incident, donkey?

Mentioned what? that they treated her real nice, , she forgot all about her previous life, and jumped on Ali the moment booty was given........... you are hopless

[piscohot]

But we're doing it within the Koran, siding with God (Allah) on this crucial topic that is the future. And it's workable !

you are dreaming if you think that 99% of the muslim population can understand what AB or you posted here.

i am not sure if there is even 1% who can be bothered with or comprehend what AB writes.