WittyBoy wrote:The Cat wrote:WittyBoy wrote:If there's a king sent a message to one of his men, can we say to this man: "Obey the king, and obey the messenger"?
The messenger already carried a message from the king, either we say "obey the messenger" and we mean by that the message he carried, or say: "obey the king" and we mean the message he sent, but To say "obey the king" and "obey the messenger", one of them became useless if they are exactly the same thing.
Not on a religious ground, silly you.
How it is different?
The Cat wrote:Muhammadans are even sillier than I thought !
It's right there in the part of the answer you skipped...![]()
The message necessarily implies Jibril. Without him, no divine message.
Exactly dear the Cat
What you just said is written in Quran, see:
وَمَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَنْ يُكَلِّمَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَّا وَحْيًا أَوْ مِنْ وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ أَوْ يُرْسِلَ رَسُولًا فَيُوحِيَ بِإِذْنِهِ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّهُ عَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ (51)
And it is not for any human being that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind a shield or He sends a messenger to reveal with His permission what He wills. Indeed, He is High, Wise.
[Al Quran ; 42:51]
-> See, or He sends a messenger to reveal with His permission what He wills. The messenger in here is Jibril, therefore it would have never happened unless Allah sent Jibril to Muhammed, consequently Muhammed too must obey Jibril in whatever he told him from Allah
For us, we have to obey Muhammed in anything sent with him from Allah, i.e. the Quran, not their man made rubbish crap books of hearsay hadith which defame Allah, Muhammed, Musa, other prophets and the Quran:
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذ ظَّلَمُواْ أَنفُسَهُمْ جَآؤُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ اللّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُواْ اللّهَ تَوَّابًا رَّحِيمًا (64)
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by the permission of Allah. And if they, when they did injustice to themselves, come to you and seek forgiveness of Allah, and the messenger seek forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance, Merciful.
[Al Quran ; 4:64]
Cheers