skynightblaze wrote:Here is the new stupid argument that Obey messenger means obey jibril and not muhammad.
Jibril doesnt speak with humans .He conveys Allahs message to muhammad and muhammad conveys the same to muslims so how can anyone follow the messenger jibril without following the messenger muhammad? Without obeying muhammad one cant obey jibril or Allah Unless jibril comes and speaks to humans personally.Hold on friends! According to CAt one can follow jibril without muhammad even when he doesnt speak to humans.
Thats a gem of logic and I think we are too dumb to understand such an intelligent logic.
I believe the Cat meant that without Jibril as a messenger from Allah to Muhammed, the message of Muhammed from Allah would have never existed
Jibril must obey Allah
Muhammed must obey Jibril
and finally the believers must obey Muhammed
All these 3 obeys are obeying one thing, obeying the message of Allah by Muhammed and his followers, but as for Jebril and Muhammed they had something else to do with the message, which is to deliever the message to the relevant addressee. (Jibril to Muhammed and Muhammed to the people) while the message itself lead to one entity only, Allah alone, i.e. without shirking ANYTHING with Him.
See this verse:
وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ ۚ فَإِنْ تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَإِنَّمَا عَلَىٰ رَسُولِنَا الْبَلَاغُ الْمُبِينُ (12)
And obey Allah and obey the messenger, but if you turn away, then upon Our messenger is only the obvious delivery.
[Al Quran ; 64:12]
-> See,
And obey Allah and obey the messenger, now, for those who dont obey him, we are told:
then upon Our messenger is only the obvious delivery. this means for those who lived after Muhammed, they still can obey him in such delivery, which is well preserved by Allah Himself in the Quran, not in their man made rubbish books of hadith
Had such man made books had any importance in the belief, at least Allah would have mentioned it once in His Quran, in fact it is quite the contrary, He warns us against those who write the books with their own hands then say it is from Allah, see this:
فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللّهِ لِيَشْتَرُواْ بِهِ ثَمَناً قَلِيلاً فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ (79)
And woe to those who write the book with their hands then say: This is from Allah, in order to exchange it for a small price. So woe to them for what their hands have written, and woe to them for what they earn.
[Al Quran ; 2:79]
-> Now, while the above verse is talking about the Jews who wrote man made books and alleged that it is from Allah, i.e. what they wrote is considered by them as the book of Allah, we cannot take such warning to be explicit to the Jews, i.e. it applies to all humans who write man made books then claim to be the book of Allah. It is not like only the Jews will be cursed because they wrote man made book then claimed it to be the book from Allah, while others can freely do it without being cursed. Makes sense to you?
It certainly does, consequently let me show you (again) how Bukhari the liar called his man made book of hadith/sunnah the book of Allah:
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... 6736&doc=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As you can read above, again, the hadith is an allegation by the always questionable Abu Hurairah, this hadith however is indexed under a chapter named:
الاقتداء بسنن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم , i.e.
Taking the sunnah of the prophet as an example
The allegation in such hadith is that, a few people were with the prophet who possibly had to judge between two persons, the hadith never told us such details, rather as explained by
Fath Al Bari book as you can read under the hadith itself.
The hadith only mentioned that prophet Muhammed told them:
I am going to judge between you using the book of Allah.
Obviously why the prophet said so, is unknown from the content of the hadith, all we know from it, that when the prophet had to judge between two conflicting parties, he said that HE WILL JUDGE BY USING THE BOOK OF ALLAH
Now if you ask any believer, what the words
The book of Allah, suppose to mean, most of them if not all, should tell you that it should mean
The Quran
Mister confused Bukhari did not see it so, he saw it as something else, let me put the exact Arabic words as stated in Fath Al Bari book, so you see it for yourself:
واقتصر البخاري هنا عليه لدخوله في غرضه من أن السنة يطلق عليها " كتاب الله " لأنها بوحيه وتقديره , لقوله تعالى ( وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحي يوحى )
They are saying that Bukhari position is that the Sunnah is called the Book of Allah, because it was also revealed to Muhammed as the Quran is revealed, then they stated the Quran verse that Muhammed never talked of his own desires.
Very clear, that Bukhari claimed that the
Sunnah of Muhammed (that Bukhari wrote in a book) is called
the book of Allah.
Therefore, according to 2:97,
woe to Bukhari who wrote a book with his hands then said: This is from Allah, in order to exchange it for a small price. So woe to him for what his hands have written, and woe to him for what he earned.
Now, try to google for the full price of the Bukhari’s man made book and see how much is it.
It talks about who went astray from the path of Allah. 