Are the Sahih Hadiths (Bukhari/Muslim) Reliable?

[yeezevee]

But again, no human claimed to be the author of the Quran, so your allegation will stay rejected until you prove beyond an atom weight of doubt that the Quran is man made

what rubbish are you talking Ahmed? didn't it come from Muhammad's mouth, if not all part of it?? How do you think an Arabic book gets written? Or you don't use common sense when it comes to Quran

Also I dont collect any funds to support anything, you confused

What I write is not just for you., for every Muslim and non Muslim readers of Islam. If you put your Islam in your own scent bottle and don't throw that scent around . no one cares dear Ahmed

[AhmedBahgat]

Also I dont collect any funds to support anything, you confused

What I write is not just for you., for every Muslim and non Muslim readers of Islam. If you put your Islam in your own scent bottle and don't throw that scent around . no one cares dear Ahmed

Do you mean like the anglican churches?

[yeezevee]

Also I dont collect any funds to support anything, you confused

What I write is not just for you., for every Muslim and non Muslim readers of Islam. If you put your Islam in your own scent bottle and don't throw that scent around . no one cares dear Ahmed

Do you mean like the anglican churches?

well., if they force their silly stuff on public from Bible and say their religious book is Book of Allah/God the way Muslim Mullahs, imams AND YOU did and doing it., then they too will have it. But The Prophets of Judaism/Christianity Moses and Jesus are unlike our Mr. PBUH

[skynightblaze]

@Bahgat

Since when did Ibn kathir become acceptable source for you? Are you sure you trust Ibn Kathir? If yes then allow me please to bring in Ibn Kathir to demolish your religion.You cant selectively pick from the sources that suit your agenda.Its time to dismiss your first argument.

Now lets come to the main argument here…

b]Musim Bin Al-Hjaj said that a few people said that Bashar Bin Saeed said:

Fear Allah and memorise the hadith, as by Allah we sat with Abu Hurairah and he was transmitting hadith about the Messenger of Allah and Kaab Al-Ahbar. Then he goes and talks about it but I hear him making the haidth of the Messenger of Allah as to be from Kaab Al-Ahbar and the hadith of Kaab Al-Ahbar as to be from the Messenger of Allah.

In another story, the same was said about Abu Hurairah.

And Yazeed Bin Harun said:

I heard Shubbah saying, Abu Hurairah used to fabricate by saying what he heard from Kaab and the Messenger of Allah while not differentiating between them.

Ibn Asaakir also mentioned the same story

And Shubbah used to point to that in his hadith

Firstly as Centaur pointed out establishing the fact that one of its narrator was corrupt doesn’t me an all the hadiths are corrupt. Secondly you are abundantly dumb enough to give me a break through. This one is easy to refute. Let me start now..

You refer to the book of Ibn Kathir to make your point. If you trust Ibn Kathir on this then please give me the liberty to attack your man made book quran using Ibn Kathir. Also which hadith is this? is it sahih?

Secondly a bum like you didn’t read the hadith properly. Read that you filthy arse…
The hadith starts with….
Fear Allah and memorise the hadith

If you trust the narrator on reliability of facts about Abu Huraira then you should also trust in what he said about the hadiths… If the hadiths arent required at all why did this fellow ask people to memorize hadiths? Doesn’t it mean that hadiths have an importance in the religion of islam?

Let me summarize here again…

IF we are accept these hadiths then you need to accept all the things that Ibn Kathir says and not just what suits your need and also you need to accept the fact that hadiths are an important part of islam because the same narrator while attacking Abu Huraira also specifies the importance of hadith as he asks people to memorize them…Its obvious if future people are to know the hadiths they have to be written down so there you go down the drain.

Note that I havent even bothered to go into deep to find out who this Shuba was and how much reliable he was.I just know abu bakhr never trusted this fellow.Without going into the details of the reliability of this source I have refuted your first argument. Whenever you make a valid point I will accept it but this is going to lead us nowhere because the sources that you and Cat bring up can hardly be classified as authentic so its really a cat and mouse game leading us no where.

Btw I am not here to defend Abu huraira. You may shove him up your arse. I specifically asked you why the hadiths showing muhammad in bad light are false. Please start refuting those hadiths instead of attacking Abu huraira. I repeat I am open to the thought that Abu Huraira could have narrated some of the hadiths incorrectly but I aint open to the thought that all the hadiths are a lie and especially the ones which show muhammad is negative light.

[yeezevee]

@Bahgat


Btw I am not here to defend Abu huraira. You may shove him up your arse. ....

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on that word "Abu huraira" for the sake of readers let me put out the well known life story of Abu Hurairah

Abu Hurairah ., `Abd al-Rahman ibn Sakhr Al-Azdi (Arabic: عبدالرحمن بن صخر الأزدي‎), Abu Hurayrah, or Abu Horaira) (603 – 681) was a companion of Prophet Muhammad and the narrator of Hadith most quoted in the isnad by Muslims. Abu Hurairah was born in Baha, Yemen into the Banu Daws tribe from the region of Tihamah on the coast of the Red Sea. His father had died, leaving him with only his mother and no other relatives. His name at birth was Abd al-Shams (servant of the sun). However, as a child, he had a cat and became known as "Abu Hurairah"

Abu Hurairah embraced Islam through Tufayl ibn Amr the chieftain of his tribe. Tufayl had returned to his village after meeting Muhammad and become a Muslim in the early years of his mission. Abu Hurairah was one of the first to respond to his call, unlike the majority of Tufayl's tribesmen. Abu Hurairah accompanied Tufayl to Mecca to meet Muhammad who, according to Sunni tradition, renamed him Abd al-Rahman (servant of the Merciful, one of the 99 Names of God). Abu Hurairah then returned to his tribe for several years. In 629 he went to Medina with some others from his tribe. Since Muhammad was absent due to the Battle of Khaybar, he stayed in the masjid. He had a wife named Bushra; he proof of this is in Fadi'l Aa'mal.

His mother, who was still a polytheist, was with him. He prayed for her to become a Muslim, but she refused. . Abu Hurairah died in 681 at the age of 78. Of the hadith held as authentic by the majority Sunnis, Abu Hurairah is the most quoted person in men. Next to him come the names of such companions as Abdullah ibn Umar, Anas ibn Malik, Jabir ibn Abdullah and Abu Said al-Khudri all of whom transmitted over a thousand sayings of Muhammad.

Shi'a tradition rejects the authenticity of Abu Hurairah's hadith, seldom accepting only when there are similar hadith narrated by Sahabah (companions) and family of Muhammad who are considered reliable by Shi'a. They consider him an enemy of Imam Ali, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain due to having been in favor with Mu'awiya, and thus hold him in low regard. Shia's allege Mu'awiya to have killed Muhammad's cousin and grandson, who Muhammad loved and cared for. Shia's believe that Abu Hurairah defended and cherished Mu'awiya. Shia's also believe Mu'awiya killed the 4th Caliph, Aisha's Brother and most of the original Sahaabas of Muhammad.

That is his story., So if any sunni guy takes hadith, then Abd al-Rahman ibn Sakhr Al-Azdi being Sahaba, his hadith will have more power than any other Hadith except Aisha..

[AhmedBahgat]

@Bahgat

Laughing at what exactly, your stupidity?

Since when did Ibn kathir become acceptable source for you?

See a kid like you don’t understand the very common logic, which is simply:

You use against the people the books they believe in, for example:

For me, you use the Quran against me because I only believe in the Quran

For the Jews, you use Al-Torah and Talmud against them

For the Christians, you use Al-Torah and 4 Gospels against them.

For Al-Mushrikoon from among the Muslims, you use the Quran and man made crap hadith against them because they believe in both

For the dump pum Kafirs like you who also believe in such man made rubbish books of hadith, you use the hadith against them.

Therefore dumby, I can use these rubbish books of sirah and hadith against you but you cannot use it against me because I reject all of them.

Are you sure you trust Ibn Kathir?

Absoutely not, but it seems you trust him. Got it dumby?

If yes then allow me please to bring in Ibn Kathir to demolish your religion.

Absolutely not and will be dismissed of course. I reject all ma made books of sirah, hadith, fiqh and sunnah.

You cant selectively pick from the sources that suit your agenda.

Of course I can, again, you believe in haidth, then it will be used against you, however I don’t believe in these man made rubbish, then you canot use it against me. Hahahahahaah, I got you, kid.

Its time to dismiss your first argument.

Let’s see how are you going to do it.

Now lets come to the main argument here…

b]Musim Bin Al-Hjaj said that a few people said that Bashar Bin Saeed said:

Fear Allah and memorise the hadith, as by Allah we sat with Abu Hurairah and he was transmitting hadith about the Messenger of Allah and Kaab Al-Ahbar. Then he goes and talks about it but I hear him making the haidth of the Messenger of Allah as to be from Kaab Al-Ahbar and the hadith of Kaab Al-Ahbar as to be from the Messenger of Allah.

In another story, the same was said about Abu Hurairah.

And Yazeed Bin Harun said:

I heard Shubbah saying, Abu Hurairah used to fabricate by saying what he heard from Kaab and the Messenger of Allah while not differentiating between them.

Ibn Asaakir also mentioned the same story

And Shubbah used to point to that in his hadith

Firstly as Centaur

You mean Cunteur?

I do not know who is that punk name Centaur.

pointed out establishing the fact that one of its narrator was corrupt doesn’t me an all the hadiths are corrupt. Secondly you are abundantly dumb enough to give me a break through. This one is easy to refute. Let me start now..

In the court system however, your court system that is, the western court system, hearsay is dismissed. And that is what I apply.

You refer to the book of Ibn Kathir to make your point.

Make a point against one who believes in such man made rubbish of books.

If you want to make a point against me, YOU MUST USE THE QURAN ONLY. Again, because I only believe in the Quran and nothing else’

If you trust Ibn Kathir

Not I don’t trust any punk of them. You however should trust him, unless you are the one who is not trusting him in this occasion.

on this then please give me the liberty to attack your man made book quran using Ibn Kathir.

Of course you cannot, this is because the man made books of Ibn Kathir means nothing to me, but it seems it means a lot to you and others, therefore only me who should have such liberty of throwing arguments at yous, and you need to refute it.

Also which hadith is this? is it sahih?

Don’t you even use such crap sahiih argument with me, we are talking about all man made books of hadith, sirah fiqh and sunnah, kid

Secondly a bum like you didn’t read the hadith properly. Read that you filthy arse…
The hadith starts with….

Me or you, kid?

Fear Allah and memorise the hadith

That is right kid, MEMORISE not WRITE

Hahahaha, dismiss your arse

If you trust the narrator on reliability of facts about Abu Huraira then you should also trust in what he said about the hadiths…

That should be you, not me, idiot.

If the hadiths arent required at all why did this fellow ask people to memorize hadiths?

I don’t know, his opinion I guess, but possibly to comply with the prophet command not to write anything he says but the Quran.

You have no argument kid, it is me who is cornering a hadith worshiper like you and you will have no way out unless you totally throw such rubbish in the rubbish bin and only concentrate on using Quran.

Doesn’t it mean that hadiths have an importance in the religion of islam?

Oral one that was inherited verbally and practised over the years like like how to pray or practical anything that explain an important issue in Quran, like what is the Middle Salat, then yes that is what is important, all other rubbish, like marrying aysha when she was 6 or likewiase such crap have to be dismissed because it is not orally and is not related to explaining Quran.

Let me summarize here again…

No, no, it is going to be a dismissal, parrot. Certainly you have no argument other than trying to convince me that I should accept hadith arguments because I am using them against a hadith worshipper like you

Again you confused idiot, YOU CANNOT USE HADITH OR ANY OF THOSE WRITTEN MATERIALS AGAINST ME BECAUSE I RJECT THEM ALL, you are only free to use the Quran against me.

IF we are accept these hadiths then you need to accept all the things that Ibn Kathir says and not just what suits your need and also you need to accept the fact that hadiths are an important part of islam because the same narrator while attacking Abu Huraira also specifies the importance of hadith as he asks people to memorize them…Its obvious if future people are to know the hadiths they have to be written down so there you go down the drain.
Dismissed

Note that I havent even bothered to go into deep to find out who this Shuba was and how much reliable he was.I just know abu bakhr never trusted this fellow.Without going into the details of the reliability of this source I have refuted your first argument. Whenever you make a valid point I will accept it but this is going to lead us nowhere because the sources that you and Cat bring up can hardly be classified as authentic so its really a cat and mouse game leading us no where.

Btw I am not here to defend Abu huraira. You may shove him up your arse. I specifically asked you why the hadiths showing muhammad in bad light are false. Please start refuting those hadiths instead of attacking Abu huraira. I repeat I am open to the thought that Abu Huraira could have narrated some of the hadiths incorrectly but I aint open to the thought that all the hadiths are a lie and especially the ones which show muhammad is negative light.

[Centaur]

Its quiet simple actualy .
Hadith has some historical facts, its only garbage in the sense that its about the life of mohammed, who hasn't brought anything worthy to humanity but evil.
Koran=> A lot of hot air and whims of a mad man.Its just claims after claims, and to consider that claims to be any relevant, you need to believe in mohammed , yet you would not get any picture of mohammed from Koran, unless you read the hadiths. such a vicious circle

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

Oral one that was inherited verbally and practised over the years like

Like how Muhammad took off from Jerusalem on the white horse, Jesus with freckles in the second heaven, Moses in the third, prayer frequency finally settled at five, seventh heaven, tree of life, etc....

THAT was a VERY embarrassing story, and yet Muslims can't even see anything embarrassing about it. Well....Muslims except for you, who know the problem, but invent all sorts of excuses for yourself.

I most certainly believe Muhammad uttered that story and that it was indeed remembered quite accurately, even more than I believe he also uttered the Satanic verses, and that the Quran practices abrogation because sh!t happens or changes over 23 years. As Ayesha supposedly quipped so innocently "oh prophet of Allah, your revelations all seem to come at just the right time".

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

lie detector


Alham Dulillah... thats amazing....

The next joke you are going to hear from someone soon is this. Watch out for it.

knock knock
Who's there?
Allah
Allah who?
ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!! BALALALALALALA!!!!!!! BOOM!!!!

[skynightblaze]

Since when did Ibn kathir become acceptable source for you?

See a kid like you don’t understand the very common logic, which is simply:
You use against the people the books they believe in, for example:
For me, you use the Quran against me because I only believe in the Quran
For the Jews, you use Al-Torah and Talmud against them
For the Christians, you use Al-Torah and 4 Gospels against them.
For Al-Mushrikoon from among the Muslims, you use the Quran and man made crap hadith against them because they believe in both
For the dump pum Kafirs like you who also believe in such man made rubbish books of hadith, you use the hadith against them.

Therefore dumby, I can use these rubbish books of sirah and hadith against you but you cannot use it against me because I reject all of them.

If that is the case then you argument 1 is closed because I don’t believe in Ibn Kathir.I bring him into the debate only when my opponent accepts tafsirs but not otherwise. I never once brought tafsirs into debate with you. Eventhough the case is closed I will still show you the problems that you have created for yourself because of this hadith..

Centaur pointed out establishing the fact that one of its narrator was corrupt doesn’t me an all the hadiths are corrupt. Secondly you are abundantly dumb enough to give me a break through. This one is easy to refute. Let me start now..

In the court system however, your court system that is, the western court system, hearsay is dismissed. And that is what I apply.

Those hadiths which depict muhammad as a wanted criminal are authentic . They arent a hear say . We can be sure that the muslims who loved muhammad wont depict him in bad light. Consider yourself in place of them.What would you do? We can understand one or two of them being corrupt but what if we see a consistent pattern? I,e almost every single narrator talks about some negative points of muhammad ? We can be sure in that case that the narrators are telling the truth and are honest so there its proved that hadith depicting muhammad arent just a hearsay.

If you want to make a point against me, YOU MUST USE THE QURAN ONLY. Again, because I only believe in the Quran and nothing else’

You talk as if quran is flawless.Its also full of errors and they have been shown to you many times.I will use quran against you.

Also which hadith is this? is it sahih?

Don’t you even use such crap sahiih argument with me, we are talking about all man made books of hadith, sirah fiqh and sunnah, kid

I aint a muslim to you filthy punk.I believe in some portion of sahih hadiths so you bringing sources other than sahih should be dismissed if we are to apply your logic that you posted at the beginning.

Secondly a bum like you didn’t read the hadith properly. Read that you filthy arse…
The hadith starts with….

Me or you, kid?

Alphabets start with letter A so it must be you . Right?

Fear Allah and memorise the hadith

That is right kid, MEMORISE not WRITE

Hahahaha, dismiss your arse

This established one fact that quran alone isnt complete which goes against the claim of quran so I guess you should accept the error in the quran and enjoy..Btw why do you want to prove everyone that you are a dumb ? if memorizing hadiths was essential then it means quran alone isnt sufficient which destroys your claim that only quran should be taken as a source of guidance. I will elaborate further on this the next quote where you spoke about the same issue.

If the hadiths arent required at all why did this fellow ask people to memorize hadiths?

I don’t know, his opinion I guess, but possibly to comply with the prophet command not to write anything he says but the Quran.

So how do you know that when this fellow said about Abu Huraira being a liar ,it wasnt his own opinion rather than being a fact? Its an opinion when it goes against you while it’s a fact when it suits your need .See how double arsed you are.

Secondly a dumb person like you cant comprehend the fact that if something is memorized or if something is written then the content wouldnt change.Tell me why should one memorize rather than write? Neither muhammad nor you realized that memorizing is more dangerous .

Infact if its written the chances of it being preserved are more . By memorizing you are bound to forget .So if according to you oral hadiths were allowed then there is a strong possibility that you are on the wrong path.I can prove this..
For e.g you had your penis chopped . Its not written in the quran so I guess this must be because of verbal or oral hadith . Quran condemns people who alter Allahs creation so I guess you are bound to hell.Also another example was the 5 prayers in the other thread where you were slam dunked and exposed as hadith worshipper!
As I said previously this explains why companions of muhammad felt the need to narrate and document the hadiths because they thought religious knowledge will be lost .This is what muhammad didn’t understand .

You have no argument kid, it is me who is cornering a hadith worshiper like you and you will have no way out unless you totally throw such rubbish in the rubbish bin and only concentrate on using Quran.

I don’t worship hadiths. I only take them as source of information and that too only a few .

Doesn’t it mean that hadiths have an importance in the religion of islam?

Oral one that was inherited verbally and practised over the years like like how to pray or practical anything that explain an important issue in Quran, like what is the Middle Salat, then yes that is what is important, all other rubbish, like marrying aysha when she was 6 or likewiase such crap have to be dismissed because it is not orally and is not related to explaining Quran.

Hahaha you are caught here. Marrying Aisha when she was 6 is important because 33:21 says that Muhammad has an excellent example in him so its related to explaining quran.Btw Aisha marrying at 6 also has been translated verbally for ages and its also written so you need to accept that your great prophet played sex game with a toddler.
Btw by bringing in this hadith to expose Abu Huraira you have created yourself more problems .

[skynightblaze]

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

[yeezevee]

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

your responses against Ahmed will be far more effective without such words SKB., that is true for Muslim readers and non-Muslim readers...

[skynightblaze]

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

your responses against Ahmed will be far more effective without such words SKB., that is true for Muslim readers and non-Muslim readers...

Yekee I thought you will take it lightly. I was kidding. I hope you dont take this seriously.

[yeezevee]

Yeezevee: well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

SKB: IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

yeezevee: your responses against Ahmed will be far more effective without such words SKB., that is true for Muslim readers and non-Muslim readers...

SKB: Yekee I thought you will take it lightly. I was kidding. I hope you dont take this seriously.

no..no dear SKB., I do take things very lightly and used much worse language than what you use at appropriate time and place. In ffi also that lounge is there similar to CEMB ranting place where four letter words fly across. But when you are discussing serious stuff you better be one up on the other guy with reference to your post and language irrespective of how other's respond. More importantly you are thorough with your responses .. So if you keep whole post that way, it will have much more impact. if it was just one liner response A_B then you can hit him below the belt..

Any way it is good a response to A_B on that hadith and Abu Hurairah.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

your responses against Ahmed will be far more effective without such words SKB., that is true for Muslim readers and non-Muslim readers...

Sure, treat those who deserve no respect with respect. Validate their behavior. That's what you're asking SNB to do. BagHat deserves to be treated with the utmost disrespect. It's the only way to treat a filthy liar.

[AhmedBahgat]

well., I am not sure why any one should shove a 7 th century guy in their asses ..lol., but on the for the readers let me put some well life story of Abu Hurairah

IS space in Bahgat;s bum the problem? Well then you can lend yours to him so that you 2 together accommodate Abu Huraira (half each).

your responses against Ahmed will be far more effective without such words SKB., that is true for Muslim readers and non-Muslim readers...

Sure, treat those who deserve no respect with respect. Validate their behavior. That's what you're asking SNB to do. BagHat deserves to be treated with the utmost disrespect. It's the only way to treat a filthy liar.

You may shove SKB up your filthy arse, dickhead

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

@Bahgat

Laughing at what exactly, your stupidity?

Since when did Ibn kathir become acceptable source for you?

See a kid like you don’t understand the very common logic, which is simply:

You use against the people the books they believe in, for example:

For me, you use the Quran against me because I only believe in the Quran

For the Jews, you use Al-Torah and Talmud against them

For the Christians, you use Al-Torah and 4 Gospels against them.

Oh shut up you filthy punk liar, I even linked a scholarly article from IslamOnline explaining exactly where praying 5 times per day comes from and you fell silent, like the lying little punk you are. Gee, I guess they're not Muslims either. And even your Quran , it turns out, did NOT recommend praying 5 times per day and instead only listed three, and the other two comes from the hadiths. It's disgraceful to watch you lie to yourself and shuffle things around so that you can preserve your beliefs.

For Al-Mushrikoon from among the Muslims, you use the Quran and man made crap hadith against them because they believe in both

For the dump pum Kafirs like you who also believe in such man made rubbish books of hadith, you use the hadith against them.

Therefore dumby, I can use these rubbish books of sirah and hadith against you but you cannot use it against me because I reject all of them.

Then you also must reject the sacredness of the Al Aqsa mosque, because the Quran never tells us where the farthest mosque is. That's a FACT. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So the Jews should be allowed to rebuild their temple because there is nothing, i repeat, nothing in the Quran that gives this area any sacred status.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

You may shove SKB up your filthy arse, dickhead

No, now you need to tell us why Al Aqsa is sacred. Let's go filthy liar, answer the question.

[AhmedBahgat]

You may shove SKB up your filthy arse, dickhead

No, now you need to tell us why Al Aqsa is sacred. Let's go filthy liar, answer the question.

[Muhammad bin Lyin]

As I expected. Crickets chirping. You really don't think your little inventions through very well, and it gets proven every single day here. Every day. You have been properly silenced and have been asked the question that you cannot answer, therefore, putting a big fat hole in your entire invention or your invented version of Islam.