The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Shari'a, errancies, miracles and science
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The Cat
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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by The Cat »

Shirk and Idolatry in Islam.
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RESUMING: Muhammadans are committing exponential shirk whenever they:

1. Use 'Allah' as a proper name indicating a separate divinity instead of a generic for God.
viewtopic.php?p=98541#p98541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98667#p98667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98783#p98783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=99122#p99122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=99168#p99168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104047#p104047" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. State that their Arabic holy book is The Koran, instead of just another blessed al-Kitab.
viewtopic.php?p=98541#p98541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98606#p98606" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98627#p98627" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104171#p104171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. Idolize Arabic when believing it's The language of Heaven, of the angels and of Allah.
viewtopic.php?p=99263#p99263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=99434#p99434" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=103869#p103869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104171#p104171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. Subscribe to the ritualistic lies and distortions of 'Makka', 'Kaaba', 'Hajj' and 'Muhammad'.
Muhammad -Myth vs Reality: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=93188#p93188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=93848#p93848" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=95686#p95686" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MHMD, a name or an appellation?
viewtopic.php?p=94060#p94060" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=94306#p94306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mecca, Kaaba & Hajj
viewtopic.php?p=91348#p91348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=92029#p92029" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=92737#p92737" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Quraysh
viewtopic.php?p=92237#p92237" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=92599#p92599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On hadiths and Jurisprudence distortions
viewtopic.php?p=94712#p94712" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=98118#p98118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Believe that they are the sole true 'Muslims' while their very Koran states otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=99263#p99263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=99434#p99434" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=103869#p103869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104171#p104171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

6. Follow a man-made Islam out of a corrupted Din, originally sent to Noah and Abraham.
viewtopic.php?p=99601#p99601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=100835#p100835" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=103869#p103869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104171#p104171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Extend the Koranic term of Shariah to any man-made set of laws from hadiths.
viewtopic.php?p=99434#p99434" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=99601#p99601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=100835#p100835" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=103869#p103869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8. Adhere to ritualistic distortions of Disbelievers (kafirs), Idolators (Mushrikun).
Disbelievers
viewtopic.php?p=100835#p100835" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mushrikun (polytheists)
viewtopic.php?p=107079#p107079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Kafirs
viewtopic.php?p=107136#p107136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

9. Believe in the ritualistic abrogations (Islamists' corruptions) of the Koran
The abrogations
viewtopic.php?p=104171#p104171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Al-Masjid al-Haram & al-Masjid al-Aqsa
viewtopic.php?p=104819#p104819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Qibla & Ruku
viewtopic.php?p=105518#p105518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Salat & Zakat
viewtopic.php?p=106098#p106098" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Muhammad, A: Obey Allah and His messenger
viewtopic.php?p=109979#p109979" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Studies in Resource Center:
Imam Abraham and the son of The Promise
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Laws Within the Koran
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8384" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Hadiths' Perfidy
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8185" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mecca -Myth vs Reality: In Search of Mt Sinai !
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by The Cat on Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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The Cat
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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by The Cat »

sum wrote:If the Koran means what it says when it says that Muhammad is the perfect example for all mankind to follow for all time we need to know how to emulate his his words and deeds - one form of "obey the messenger". (...) It stands to reason that the Koran will not cover every query that muslims will have and so they will have to obey the messenger`s words in these situations. Just conveying the Koranic message is insufficient to meet the needs of the muslims if Islam is supposed to be a complete way of life and how to relate to non-muslims.
Find me a verse stating that Muhammad is the perfect example to follow! Muhammadans only have 33.21 to chew on: ''Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.'' There's a world of difference between a 'good example' and the perfect example accorded to both Abraham and Jesus! But that's not what the Islamic clergy wanted to hear... Then again sura 33 is the best sura one can bring -against- Muhammad's being the perfect example to be followed.

ImageImage
ImageImage
Cartoons: http://www.faithfreedom.org/2009/01/26/ ... and-zainab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As I've written, in some instance, we do read: 'Obey Allah and obey ME'! And they are referring to... Jesus-Christ!

43.63: When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom,
and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ.So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me.


3.50: And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden
unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.


5.111: And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they
said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "We are Muslims".


On this even Muhammad is commanded not to doubt:
3.60: ''(This is) the truth from thy Lord (O Muhammad), so be not thou of those who waver.''

The Arabic Koran positioned Jesus as Allah's warder, not Muhammad... This became unbearable to the Islamic clergy, so the hadiths!
Do we read anything like consult the tafsirs or the hadiths or Muhammad's sunna for explanation? No but in 3.7 Muslims are commanded to refrain from man-made extrapolations and, in 10.94: if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read
the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.


88.21-22: ''Remind them, for thou art but a remembrancer, Thou art not at all a warder over them.'' also: 10.108; 39.41; 42.48; 6.107:
''We have not set thee as a keeper over them, nor art thou responsible for them.'' Something the hadiths had to contour any witch way!

Umar destroyed all existing hadiths on the ground that they were 'like the Mishnah of the Jewish people'. Muhammad himself prohibited his own sunna to be of any teaching: Zayd b. Thabit: ''Allah's Messenger ordered us not to record the hadiths.'' (Hanbal 3.12.21.39) when Muawiya asked him to write down some hadiths from the Prophet. Abu Said al Khudri: the Prophet said: ''Do not write anything from me except the verses of the Koran. If there are any of you who have written anything other than the Koran, he must destroy it.''

Indeed to rely on the hadiths (those instituting religious laws, not for -plain- historical purpose) instead of all the scriptures and remembrances acknowledged by the Arabic Koran comes down to say that Muslims' holy books aren't sufficients, that Allah's sunna isn't adequate! Muhammadans became idol worshipers: the black stone being like the golden calf of old... right to the 21st century! No wonder why the Islamic world is in such a mess nowadays... The curse of Allah is upon them!
Last edited by The Cat on Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

sum
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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by sum »

Hello The Cat

You have, again, highlighted Allah`s inadequacies. He says that Muhammad is a "good example" and this is in the context of an updated and now, current, faith. If a "good example" is not a "perfect" example, one has to ask in what way? If Muhammad was only a "good example", implying that he had some imperfections, what were these imperfections? The muslims need to know. There is "wriggle room" here in Koran 33:21 for the muslims as they can argue that it means they should follow what he said and did, as Muhammad was a "good example". Allah`s inadequacy is that he failed miserably to give a very clear and unambiguous message regarding Muhammad being, or not being, a "good example" to emulate.

Have you had any success in convincing any muslim of your position on this matter as they are the ones who need to be convinced?

sum

sum
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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by sum »

Hello The Cat

This interesting quote is from another thread -
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6387" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here is an excerpt from the opening of the talk entitled ‘Ayesha: Mother of the Believers’, given by Sheikh Anwar Al-Awlaki at a JIMAS conference on 28/12/02:

‘If any Muslim has any grain of doubt in something the Rasullallah (saws) did, that is not a sin - that is apostasy. It is something that takes out of the fold of Islam. If you believe something in your heart that something Rasullallah (saws) did shouldn’t have been done, if you believe something Rasullallah (saws) did could have been done better, this is something that takes out of the fold of Islam. What Rasullallah (saws) did is human perfection.’

Do the Sheikhs actually believe what they teach? Who knows, but it is what they teach the muslims. Where would the Sheikh have obtained the information about Muhammad in order for him to say that what Muhammad did was "human perfection"? It wouldn`t have been from Muhammad and so it must be the interpretation of the Koran`s comments about Muhammad.

sum

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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by The Cat »

sum wrote:Allah's inadequacy is that he failed miserably to give a very clear and unambiguous message regarding Muhammad being, or not being, a "good example" to emulate.
I like to think that Allah can be ironic! So He allowed Muhammad to be pictured NOT as the perfect example to be followed as a person.


As a human, subject to lust and greed, Muhammad is to be disregarded!
Image

Is thus Allah saying: ''Better be my prophet unto your own'' ?
And then allowing the Hadiths to prove His point furthermore ? :D
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

ayman
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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by ayman »

AhmedBahgat wrote:The word Allah is a unique name that has nothing to do with nouns that starts with AL
for example, the Arabic device Li which is one letter that is called Harf Jarr, when it comes before any noun that has the definite article Al, then the Alif in Al must be removed

for example:

The Arabic word: العالمين, Al-Alameen, i.e. The worlds, which is a combination of of ال + عالمين, when Li is attached to it at the beginning of the word, then the Alif in Al must be removed, i.e. للعالمين, Lilalameen, i.e. for the the worlds, THIS IS THE CASE WITH ANY ARABIC WORD THAT HAS THE DEFINITE ARTICLE AL

But when we use the same device Li before the name الله, Allah, i.e. Allah, then both first letters in Allah Al must be removed, i.e. لله, Lilah, i.e. For Allah, THIS MUST MEAN THAT THE FIRST TWO LETTERS IN THE NAME ALLAH cannot be the definite article AL.
Ahmed Bahagat, we miss your antics at Free-Minds. I would normally not respond to your antics and ignore them as usual but the above was too absurd even by your standards and some naive people here actually bought it!

Let’s take a proper name with an AL at the beginning and a common noun with an L at the beginning to illustrate your blunder:

For example, let’s take the proper name of the country Albania. We spell Albania as ألبانيا in Arabic. When we say “to Albania” by adding the proposition “Li” it becomes لألبانيا (LiAlbania). So, for example, when we say “I am traveling to Albania”, we say أنا مسافر لألبانيا we don’t say أنا مسافر للبانيا (LLbania). Due to the fact that the AL is part of the name and is not a definite article, the Alif stays and doesn’t get removed.

On the other hand, when there is an AL definite article in a word that begins with the letter L such as اللبن (allbn/the milk) or اللعب (alla’b/the toys) or الله (allah/the god) we see a different behavior when the device “Li” is added. The “Li” as usual removes the Alif of the definite article. However, in Arabic you can’t have three consecutive letter L in any word so for words that begin with L, not only is the Alif of the definite article removed but also the L of the definite article and we end up with للبن (lilbn/to the milk), للعب (lila’b/to the toys) and لله (lilah/to the god).

This is all very simple to anyone who knows anything about Arabic and is not blinded by a dogmatic mind. So, unfortunately, as everyone can see, it is nuggets of nonsense such as what you said above that made you lose credibility and run away from the Free-Minds forum. I sincerely hope that you have better luck on FFI and I would suggest that you start by refraining from using bad language that doesn’t reflect the high quality of your upbringing and values. Always keep in mind that one day our children might read what we write.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by AhmedBahgat »

AhmedBahgat wrote:The word Allah is a unique name that has nothing to do with nouns that starts with AL
for example, the Arabic device Li which is one letter that is called Harf Jarr, when it comes before any noun that has the definite article Al, then the Alif in Al must be removed

for example:

The Arabic word: العالمين, Al-Alameen, i.e. The worlds, which is a combination of of ال + عالمين, when Li is attached to it at the beginning of the word, then the Alif in Al must be removed, i.e. للعالمين, Lilalameen, i.e. for the the worlds, THIS IS THE CASE WITH ANY ARABIC WORD THAT HAS THE DEFINITE ARTICLE AL

But when we use the same device Li before the name الله, Allah, i.e. Allah, then both first letters in Allah Al must be removed, i.e. لله, Lilah, i.e. For Allah, THIS MUST MEAN THAT THE FIRST TWO LETTERS IN THE NAME ALLAH cannot be the definite article AL.
ayman wrote:Ahmed Bahagat, we miss your antics at Free-Minds.
Look who is here

Salam Ayman

Surprised to see you on FFI, but just for your knowledge I do not miss your crap and the others crap on free minds

Let me see what you have to say:
ayman wrote: I would normally not respond to your antics and ignore them as usual but the above was too absurd even by your standards and some naive people here actually bought it!
Funny indeed, it seems you are a liar because you used to reply to every antics of mine
ayman wrote:Let’s take a proper name with an AL at the beginning and a common noun with an L at the beginning to illustrate your blunder:
What the hell you are talking about? What is that bloody common noun with an L at the beginning?

Look pal, I am not interested to waste my time with a freak manipulator like you I am working on an MP3 player for the Quran, opps I mean ‘the reading’ as you like to call it.

This is going to be the best MP3 player on planet earth, I will surely send you a free copy, perhaps you stop your manipulation and misguidance to many young ignorant Muslims:

Image

I will welcome any constructive feedback, let me now continue with your crap”
ayman wrote:For example, let’s take the proper name of the country Albania. We spell Albania as ألبانيا in Arabic.
What a stupid example that was Ayman, Albania DOES NOT start with the device Al, it just happened that it has A + L at the beginning. How dumb of you
ayman wrote: When we say “to Albania” by adding the proposition “Li” it becomes لألبانيا (LiAlbania). So, for example, when we say “I am traveling to Albania”, we say أنا مسافر لألبانيا we don’t say أنا مسافر للبانيا (LLbania). Due to the fact that the AL is part of the name and is not a definite article, the Alif stays and doesn’t get removed.
You stupid idiot, the Al is Albania is not ال المعرفة , in fact if we want to refer to the Albanian people in Arabic, we say: الالبان , we still add AL to it you ignorant, now if I want to add Li to it, for example I gave a present to the Albani people, I say it like this in Arbic:

انا اعطيت الهدية للالبان

The Alif in Al-Alban, has to be removed

You are dismissed, mister confused ignorant, I better work on the software instead of wasting my precious time with a manipulator and con artist like you. However it was still good talking to you

Salam
ayman wrote: On the other hand, when there is an AL definite article in a word that begins with the letter L such as اللبن (allbn/the milk) or اللعب (alla’b/the toys) or الله (allah/the god) we see a different behavior when the device “Li” is added. The “Li” as usual removes the Alif of the definite article. However, in Arabic you can’t have three consecutive letter L in any word so for words that begin with L, not only is the Alif of the definite article removed but also the L of the definite article and we end up with للبن (lilbn/to the milk), للعب (lila’b/to the toys) and لله (lilah/to the god).

This is all very simple to anyone who knows anything about Arabic and is not blinded by a dogmatic mind. So, unfortunately, as everyone can see, it is nuggets of nonsense such as what you said above that made you lose credibility and run away from the Free-Minds forum. I sincerely hope that you have better luck on FFI and I would suggest that you start by refraining from using bad language that doesn’t reflect the high quality of your upbringing and values. Always keep in mind that one day our children might read what we write.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman
Image

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Re: The Deception of the Koranic 'proper names'

Post by The Cat »

I can't argue the above posts about Arabic but the fact remains that the elision, made by frequency of usage, is clear:

Al-Ilaah..........and......... Allah.....
Image---Image

Not only its Christian pre-Islamic usage is emphasized Q.22.40, but the name Al-Ilah is written in 21.108, also Al-A'la (sura 87) just as Al-Aliyy in 4.34 & 2.255 (Sublime, Highest). The closest biblical equivalent is said to be Eloah, only so written in the Book of Ezra and Job, and the Aramaic Alaha. Yet I personally find intriguing cognate with the biblical El-Elyon, out of the Phoenician Eliun (the Most High), Samaritan Illiyyun found in Q.83.18-21 (Illiyin), the recorder of the good deeds in opposition to Sijjin (?). We know that Ilya was an old Arabic name for Jerusalem (Roman Aelia Capitola).

As I've stated before...
viewtopic.php?p=96321#p96321" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=96634#p96634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Answering AB
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viewtopic.php?p=99168#p99168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=104047#p104047" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The oldest cognate for Allah is that of the Hittite Alulu, the Akkadian Elūlu, and the Persian Alalu for harvest time, still preserved for the month of September in Turkish, Hebrew and Levantine Arabic (respectively: Eylül, Elul and أيلول‎ 'Aylūl). Not forgetting the Ilu/Enlil root:
Image

Quoting myself:
What's troubling the etymologists is, in my opinion, that Allah may have three different regional sources. The Al-Ilah (Enlil) source comes
from the Lakhmid territories (Iraq and North Syria), while the Syro/Aramaic root of Alaha/Alya was more influential in the biblical Levant.

Yet a third influence, in the northwest Nabatea, must be weighted in: that of the Egyptian moon-god, LAH/YAH. He wasn't that important
and has been mainly related to the moon proper, our satellite. Egyptologists think that he was adopted by the Hyksos, all along with Seth.
Lah/Yah became associated with the moon as time (months). As such it's the root for Jericho (Yarik/Yerech) with that of Arah: wandering.
The extreme sparsity of informations about Lah/Yah might be the reason why it did escape etymologists' scrutiny, while Al-Lah is obvious.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

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