Help needed to do some research...

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Imran Saleem
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Help needed to do some research...

Post by Imran Saleem »

@ Charles
Imran Saleem wrote:
@ Charles

As a community, Muslims are probably the most backward looking people who want to remain stuck in the morals of the 7th century Arabia.



Well i agree with you, most of the Islamic countries (all of them if not for oil)are "backward looking people" as you put. I personally don't think that it is not an exaggeration to call them modern day neanderthals.



I don't have problems with their backwardness as it might be due to many factors. What concerns me is their insistence on following 7th century, post Muhammad, morals.
I just don't understand why i do this but, i always look at history for answers and i've not been disappointed so far. If not anything else history teaches us that people, civilizations, culture, species, believes need to be changed as changes in knowledge and environment take place. Its not an option; either you do it or you perish, like all that doesn't exist today but did at some point of time. The entire middle eastern region was practically dead before the discovery of oil. It will happen again in the next 40-50 yrs once they run out of oil; change within that period or no more "GOOD MUSLIMS".
If i were you I wouldn't be concerned about them not changing. Human beings are like cockroaches, They are destined to survive. :P
Well, what you say sounds reasonable except for the fact that it is the educated lot among the Muslims who are causing problems all around. It is they who call western women whores for not dressing according to their standards. It is they who spearhead the Jihad/terrorism. It is they who keep on shouting that Islam is going to rule the world and that all other religions/philosophies/life styles are wrong. You will come across many educated Muslims who really believe that Quran is full of scientific miracles and that it is directly from the creator God.
Lemme make myself clear here, being a literate (a person who has knowledge of reading and writing) is different from being an educated person (characterized by or displaying qualities of culture and learning); no educated man will ever "call western women whores", "spearhead the Jihad", or shout out "Islam is going to rule the world". Let's take it point by point here;
1) A woman is no whore just because she dresses different; Its just there culture. Different people from different parts of the world have different believes. Hence different culture. An educated man must have knowledge of it if not he's a pervert who wants to get laid with the woman he's referring to.
2) Spearheading Jihad? are you serious? Brother its the literate/Zombie(s)/demented muslims who do that. An educated person will appreciate life and its gifts, not destroy it.
3) History gives you the answers yet again. All the way from the beginning of time everybody; I mean every single person who has tried doing that (rule the world) has failed miserably (Alexander, Gengis Khan, Egyptians, MD Ghazni, The Romans, The british and of course Hitler). Some to such an extent that their entire civilization has gone extinct. An educated man will be well aware of that and won't make such foolish claims.
4) full of scientific miracles? The Quran claims that the earth is flat. What more miracles do you want? A 3rd or a 4th grader who knows simple fractions will clearly prove that the inheritance law in the Quran is flawed. If he does not see this clearly; Forget him being an educated man, he's a not even a literate man.
5) the concept of "other religions/philosophies/life styles are wrong". is not new to the humans. Its absolutely natural and an educated man will know that. It is the anti-secular man who grows intolerant of it and responds voilently not the educated ones.


I've mentioned this before and i am doing it again. Different people means different opinions about the same subject/person/country etc. Point of view differ, there understanding level differ, There thought process differ and the like. The out come of this is obvious.
For example let's talk about Tom Araya. He's a lead singer/base player in a band called Slayer. His songs generally Demonize the christians and there believes (Haunting the chapel, Reign in blood, Hell awaits, God hates us all are some of the album names). In an interview when asked about his religious background, to which he commented "Catholic." He was also asked "God Hates Us All, How does it fit in?" To which Araya replied "God doesn't hate. [But] it's a great f***ing title."
Some people consider him as a satanist. And some consider him as a very talented and a professional musician who does not mix his faith in christianity and his work as a thrash metalist.



The difference is that a billion people aspire to follow in the footsteps of Muhammad.
Am not sure about billions but at the height of Slayers success there were millions of fans across north America and Europe willing to do anything for the band. Even to this day the Slayer is considered to be one of the most influential Metal bands of all time.
People dig in to their past mainly to criticize Muhammad and Islam.



Am afraid i'll have to disagree with you man. Not all people do the same as you've mentioned. Some people do so in order to learn history, some seek answers and some to scrutinize every aspect involved and make up their mind about some thing rather than jumping into conclusions just because everybody says so.

Imran Saleem



Right you are.
Am glad that you agree with me.

Bottom line am just saying that its not a characterstic of all the muslims to be bad with no moral values. There are some who have very high moral standards. They feed the poor, build charitable hospitals and schools (not Islamic schools or Madrasas) and provide employment. There is still hope for the rest and sooner or later people will see the wrongs in the Quran and Islamic teachings. And at that point, muslims (not just a selected few, but most of them) will see what we see today; If not all; the majority of them will declare apostasy, and the rest will remian muslims but will stop following the Quran and hadiths. Instead write new ones to follow. And the ones who don't come under either of the two categories, there numbers will be very small and will eventually die out due to lack of the following.

Imran Saleem
God is no more than a wildest fabric of human imagination.

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Imran Saleem
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Help needed to do some research...

Post by Imran Saleem »

@ sum
Hello Imran Saleem

A very warm welcome to FFI.
Thank you for your welcome, am glad to be here.
Ali Sina, who was a muslim, has said that he started to doubt the claimed truth of Islam only after he read the Koran. It was full of hate and intolerance. Abul Kasem, who also has a list of articles in FFI, also investigated Islam, especially after he was nearly killed as a student when Pakistan invaded Bangladesh. Both Ali Sina and Abul Kasem took very many years to rid themselves of the Islamic indoctrination and so do not be surprised that you are going through a period of doubt and uncertainty. It will possibly last for a long time to come.
I always knew that. But am sure that it won't take yrs as i've pretty much got a clear picture already. Am just preoccupied with my exams this month end if not for that i'd have finished reading the quran/hadith by now.
Keep reading the posts and articles in FFI and let the outcome decide whether you wish to remain a muslim or not. If you want to read a true horror story, read "Islamic Jihad" by Khan. I am used to reading about atrocities but what the muslims did in India truly shocked even me. All the information came from Islamic sources.
Once a my father told me "Gain more knowledge, reach greater heights." And i intend on doing just that. I don't mind the source be it FFI or any Islamic website or a document. Its upto your gut instincts to believe in what you wish to believe in.
Some times even the most seasoned Junkie ends up with an overdose. We are no different. you just reached your (limits) in the case involving muslims in India.
You seem to have a wise head on young shoulders. Use your reason and conscience to help you to make your mund up about Islam.
Thanks again, I will do my best to be unbiased when am making decision about my faith in Islam.

Later

Imran Saleem
God is no more than a wildest fabric of human imagination.

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enceladus
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:00 pm

Re: Help needed to do some research...

Post by enceladus »

Imran Saleem wrote:
sum wrote: You seem to have a wise head on young shoulders. Use your reason and conscience to help you to make your mund up about Islam.
Thanks again, I will do my best to be unbiased when am making decision about my faith in Islam.

Later

Imran Saleem


Sounds good!

I'm sure you've already seen that us "infidels" aren't all the nasty, horrible types that the Quran seems to portray us as.... ;)

For example, any Muslim in the world will know that when a disaster hits an Islamic country, whether the disaster is a tsunami, quake, flood or whatever, Western aid is always given there (and usually gets there first - even before any aid given by other Islamic countries).
- enceladus

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Imran Saleem
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Help needed to do some research...

Post by Imran Saleem »

@ enceladus
when a disaster hits an Islamic country, whether the disaster is a tsunami, quake, flood or whatever, Western aid is always given there (and usually gets there first - even before any aid given by other Islamic countries).
True that.
God is no more than a wildest fabric of human imagination.

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