The erosion of free speech?

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manfred
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The erosion of free speech?

Post by manfred »

Remember that poor Syrian toddler found dead on a Turkish beach....

If you look carefully how this story was reported then it was clear that the boy's sad short life suffered the final indignity of being used for political ends.

The "argument" was the picture. If we want to spell out what it meant to say, as even pointed out plainly at times, we get to this:

"Look at this picture. Anyone still being critical of uncontrolled immigration is therefore an inhuman monster."

Even in death this boy was a political football, a way to stop rational discussion of current events. His dead body a tool in the hand of those who want to restrict free speech. He was used to stifle all discussion.

There are hundreds of examples of such tactics.... We are in effect told that we can only say things at few people specially not Muslims, could find in the slightest way objectionable. Political correctness has even made Anti-Semitism acceptable again, as Islam is Anti-Semitic and therefore those who seek to appease Muslims play along. The ironic part is that political correctness in in effect plain censorship, and worse, it is resembing more and more the censorship Muslims would like to impose on free societies.

And discussions have moved from "what you say is...." to "because you said that you are...." Younger people forgot or never learnt to discuss a viewpoint, but they did learn many ways to shut down discussions.... people get labelled as racist, islamophobe, facist and what not....


What can we do to bring back free speech? Why d we have "hate speech" laws, but not laws against attacking free speech in the ways we find today?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Fernando
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Fernando »

That sick exploitation of a sad death has been repeated in America: regarding the toddler who was drowned when her reckless father took her into a dangerous river in an attempt to break into the USA illegally. All Trump's fault, we're told.
And regarding Trump, there's been a fuss about "children in cages". Photographs have been used to criticise Trump - that turned out in fact to have been from Obama's days.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by manfred »

This kind of "argument", show a picture of someone suffering, ideally a crying baby has been around for centuries.... a no lesser man than Goethe had a name for it : "social kitch". If you analyse the reports of the drowned baby in the river, you get to the same irrational argument: If you disagree with uncontrolled immigration from Mexico then you are are a monstrous creature who want to see babies suffer and die.

Such manipulations should be exposed whenever found. The "Palestinians" make liberal use of it.

A more modern, different way to control free speech is the "political correctness" approach. Speech is "sanitised" with many things no longer "allowed" to be said. Next, "alternative" terms are enforced. Anyone who is not "with the program" is denounced as a "Nazi" or "racist" or something similar. The aim is ti control and unify speech and hence thought in one area and direction only.

It is frightening to see the extent of this kind of brain wash in operation. It is a mostly western phenomenon though, and we know that it is part of Marxist ideology and practice to manipulate language to influence the direction people think and it has survived the fall of the communist block.... the Berlin wall was called the "anti-fascism protection rampart" in East Germany, for example, and to use any other phrase to describe was sure to bring you to the attention of the secret police.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Fernando wrote:That sick exploitation of a sad death has been repeated in America: regarding the toddler who was drowned when her reckless father took her into a dangerous river in an attempt to break into the USA illegally. All Trump's fault, we're told.
And regarding Trump, there's been a fuss about "children in cages". Photographs have been used to criticise Trump - that turned out in fact to have been from Obama's days.
In the year 2005,when one member of this forum said that out of every one dollar given as aid to third world countries,seven dollars are extracted from their economy,none disputed it.Now here we have Fernando who is against immigration and tells me that temperate climate alone sustained huge number of white people and not usury to any extent.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by manfred »

NS, Quotes of "other members" need a NAME and a LINK. And are you concluding things from words not spoken?
Fernando who is against immigration and tells me that temperate climate alone sustained huge number of white people and not usury to any extent.
Where did he say that and when? Where is the link?


Your dodgy quoting is getting annoying. It is against the rules of this forum.
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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

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that temperate climate alone sustained huge number of white people
contrary to your "usory" theory.... Did you know that the little Netherlands for a long time was the largest exporter of food in the world? Food they produced that is... only in recent times they have been overtaken in farming profitability by the other big evil villain in your universe, the US, but to this day they are the second largest seller of food in the world.

As a matter of fact Europe was always comparably prosperous compared to its neighbours and many countries further away, long before there was any colony anywhere. This is to do with a spirit of enterprise, curiosity, hard work and careful study. It also has to do with the fact that Europeans tend to look for answers rather than people to blame.

Another relatively wealthy place once was Egypt... once selling grain to the Roman empire.... With the arrival of the Muslims agriculture virtually collapsed and now is a shadow of its former self. Also the wicked Brits, perhaps?
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Fernando
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:Another relatively wealthy place once was Egypt... once selling grain to the Roman empire.... With the arrival of the Muslims agriculture virtually collapsed and now is a shadow of its former self. Also the wicked Brits, perhaps?
Not much prospect of British agriculture prospering, Manfred, when our rulers are determined to build over as much agricultural land as possible to accommodate our rapidly increasing population (i.e. build houses for immigrants). Quite the opposite - UK per capita food production will go down.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:NS, Quotes of "other members" need a NAME and a LINK. And are you concluding things from words not spoken?
Fernando who is against immigration and tells me that temperate climate alone sustained huge number of white people and not usury to any extent.
Where did he say that and when? Where is the link?


Your dodgy quoting is getting annoying. It is against the rules of this forum.
If you can enable the search by keyword feature of the old forum and not the old old forum,I think I will be able to re-produce the statement.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:contrary to your "usory" theory.... Did you know that the little Netherlands for a long time was the largest exporter of food in the world? Food they produced that is... only in recent times they have been overtaken in farming profitability by the other big evil villain in your universe, the US, but to this day they are the second largest seller of food in the world.
And what exactly is the role of artificial fertilisers produced from oil in increasing food productivity?
manfred wrote:As a matter of fact Europe was always comparably prosperous compared to its neighbours and many countries further away, long before there was any colony anywhere. This is to do with a spirit of enterprise, curiosity, hard work and careful study. It also has to do with the fact that Europeans tend to look for answers rather than people to blame.
Yes pilgrim did say disparagingly that those enterprising ones most of whom are Jewish were allowed to do jobs other than menial ones once Renaissance began and hence became a bit more smarter.Before that they were the untouchables of Europe as Mr.B.R.Ambedkar put it.
manfred wrote:Another relatively wealthy place once was Egypt... once selling grain to the Roman empire.... With the arrival of the Muslims agriculture virtually collapsed and now is a shadow of its former self. Also the wicked Brits, perhaps?
People of this forum did say that pagan society is rich with creativity and innovation.So pagan Egyptians who have constructed buildings as technologically advanced as the pyramids would indeed have known better farming techniques.But then colonialism is basically predatory in nature.So I cannot support it anywhere on earth except in cases where it can happen with mutual consent.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

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And what exactly is the role of artificial fertilisers produced from oil in increasing food productivity?
None.

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/Fertilizer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
People of this forum did say that pagan society is rich with creativity and innovation.So pagan Egyptians who have constructed buildings as technologically advanced as the pyramids would indeed have known better farming techniques.But then colonialism is basically predatory in nature.
MOST people are creative and seek innovation, some more than others. And them there are some who do this hardly at all. They are called Muslims.

And yes colonialism has a predatory element, in some cases more and in some cases less. But there are also other elements, such as cultural enrichment and exchange, at least at times. The British did not go to India and simply put all things valuable on ships. They also brought things that India treasures to this day. And colonialism is not purely something done by only white people now, is it?


You mentioned the effect on Egypt of colonisation, but it was the Muslims who first did this.

Similarly, most of the poorer parts of Europe suffered from colonisation by the Turks.

So, if you want to put together a picture of this period of time, at least try to present things in a balanced way.
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Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Next, air is pumped into the system, and oxygen is removed by the burning of natural gas and steam
Read more: http://www.madehow.com/Volum ... urn false;

To burn something,you need fuel.What is the fuel in this case.And is it not true that a wide range of chemical substances are attained by distilling different types of oils?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by manfred »

so fertilizers are made from oil, according to you.... because possibly some oil products may be used in heating the components.

Is you dinner made from oil too?
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Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:so fertilizers are made from oil, according to you.... because possibly some oil products may be used in heating the components.

Is you dinner made from oil too?
Of course,did not pilgrim say that he hates food items of sub-continent as they are fully fried in oil and hence bad for our health?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Fernando
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:
And what exactly is the role of artificial fertilisers produced from oil in increasing food productivity?
None.

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/Fertilizer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks Manfred, you've saved me having to debunk that - and probably done it better than I would have, as usual. :sml:
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Thanks Manfred, you've saved me having to debunk that - and probably done it better than I would have, as usual. :sml:
He did not answer my question with regards to the material being used as fuel during the process of heating that takes place while manufacturing artificial fertilisers.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

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There are all kinds of things you can use a fuel.... in Europe there is a lot of coal, for a start. Gas too...
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Nosuperstition
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:There are all kinds of things you can use a fuel.... in Europe there is a lot of coal, for a start. Gas too...
But all forms of coal are not robust in that they are not productive with regards to combustive properties.Lignite for example is a poor form of coal.And Gas is not available with all nations aplenty.So are you really sure that oil is not at all used in manufacture of fertilisers?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by manfred »

yes. You do not need petroleum to make fertiliser.

And the topic here is?
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Re: The erosion of free speech?

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Everything is Offensive Now
Everything is offensive now
A US college is suggesting staff should avoid saying ‘hip hip hooray’.


Colorado State University has produced an ‘Inclusive Language Guide’ for its employees. It advises against using 49 apparently problematic words and phrases. While many of the terms listed in the guide are commonly known to be outdated, such as the term ‘coloured’ to describe people of colour, it also includes a number of phrases that are less obviously offensive. Phrases like ‘hip hip hooray’, ‘long time no see’ and even the pronouns ‘he’ and ‘she’ are liable to cause offence, it says.

The guide was drawn up by Colorado State’s ‘inclusive communications taskforce’ and was published earlier this year. It came to the media’s attention recently when a draft version was leaked online. The draft version warned against using the word ‘American’. It explained that the Americas encompass far more places than the US, and that using it in this way has the potential to erase other American cultures. It suggested using ‘US citizen’ or ‘person from the US’ instead. In the final version, this suggestion was deleted.

One phrase that has made the final cut is ‘long time no see’. Instead, staff are advised to say, ‘I haven’t seen you in a long time’. Apparently, ‘long time no see’ was originally used to mock Native Americans, though few would make this association today.

Similarly, ‘hip hip hooray’ is apparently offensive. You have to delve quite far back into the phrase’s (disputed) history to understand why. The ‘Inclusive Language Guide’ claims that ‘hip hip hooray’ comes from the German hep hep. This was what shepherds said when herding their sheep. However, the phrase became tainted by the Nazis. ‘German citizens started using it as a rallying cry when they would hunt down the Jewish citizens who were living in the ghettos’, according to the guide. The task force suggests that Colorado State staff should just say ‘hooray’ from now on. This etymology is heavily disputed by other academics, but perhaps we should delete ‘hip hip’ from our vocabulary just to be safe. Otherwise, we might become unwitting Nazi sympathisers.

Other words to avoid include ‘he’ or ‘she’. These pronouns are deemed un-inclusive and disrespectful because, in the words of the inclusivity task force, they imply that ‘gender is binary’. This ‘fails to acknowledge that a person’s biological sex does not match the gender they subjectively identify with’. ‘They’, ‘them’, ‘theirs’, ‘ze’ and ‘hir’ are all offered as acceptable alternatives.

What’s more, even the relatively woke concept of ‘preferred pronouns’ is apparently problematic now. The ‘preferrred’ part needs to go because it ‘suggests that gender identity is a choice’. Apparently, it is offensive to suggest that non-binary or gender non-conforming students are ‘chosing’ these pronouns or ‘preferring’ them over their ‘true’ pronouns. (Which sounds a lot like what they are doing.)

Once the guide caught the attention of the press, the university’s chancellor clarified that there was no obligation to follow it. In a statement on Facebook, he says the guide was intended as a ‘free resource’ for those worried they might ‘needlessly offend someone’. Staff members asked for the guide to be produced, he says. The chancellor says the university takes free speech seriously and sees no evidence of any ‘chilling effect’ caused by the guide.

But the existence of such a guide and the words it chooses to problematise clearly point to a free-speech problem. What does it say about the climate on campus if staff feel that they are likely to unwittingly offend people with harmless phrases? And why are university staff walking on eggshells when communicating with students or each other? When even new, woke ideas are deemed problematic, perhaps people have run out of things to be offended by.

Universities should help students communicate their ideas effectively – and argue back against ideas that they object to. Instead, they are shielding students from harmless phrases. It’s time students stood up to this patronising attitude.

Aaron Gonzalez is a spiked intern and a student at University of the Arts London.
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