immigration and integration

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manfred
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immigration and integration

Post by manfred »

How should an immigrant adapt to a new country?

How far should he or she "integrate"?

Does integration mean giving up one own values and and culture?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Ariel
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by Ariel »

Yes, to my opinion they should. They should not only integrate, but they also should try to assimilate. They should speak the language of the country the move into, and they don’t need to bring their culture or laws (Sharia Law) into our culture and our laws.

If they won’t accept the laws and culture of their new homeland, they need to go where they came from.

Most of them came out of free will to our countries.

I am also of the opinion that refugees must go back to their home countries when the war is over, or when is save to go back .
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manfred
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by manfred »

Well, what about the Dutch in Indonesia all that time ago? Did they do that, generally? How about "ex-pats" in, say, The Emirates?


I agree about the language, this essential to be employable.

To what extent you can make people to "adopt" a culture is a tricky one. We all have our views and convictions.

But what is important that an immigrant will at least not challenge the values and laws of their new home, or expect to have privileges.

You can integrate without abandoning your own background. That is hard, but possible. Jewish people have learnt how to live with non-Jews as neighbours and friends, and still be Jewish. It took a very long time to master this, and despite of best efforts, there were terrible times for them in Europe.

Muslims do not merely want to retain their religion but change their new countries into something like back home. Many of their convictions are seriously at odds with Western values. The minimum standard would be to live and let live, to accept those who do not fit their ideas, and to allow others to live their lives the way they want.

A "multi-cultural" society does not work for them. They will separate themselves, make little effort to adjust to their new environment as their look down on us. They never experiences the period of enlightenment and the separation of religion from government. That is a big part of the problem.

I would say.... learning the language is a must. Also learning about cultural norms and expectations, and a willingness to at least respect them. Avoid to use religious teachings and services to generate an "us and them". Why would you even need to discuss other people in the context your own religion? Instead of asking "what can I get" ask "what can I bring". Why be a "Palestinian" if you could be a Muslim Israeli?

I would also agree that refugees should return once it is safe. We should neither take responsibility for the entire world's poor as we cannot deliver that, nor should we take the skilled workers from poorer countries, they are much needed at home.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
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Ariel
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by Ariel »

manfred wrote:Well, what about the Dutch in Indonesia all that time ago? Did they do that, generally? How about "ex-pats" in, say, The Emirates?

.
You have a point Manfred. More then a point to be honest. People have a right to their own culture , also when they immigrate to an other country.

I was too harsh. :oops:

But an ex-pats is going home one day. He does not have to integrate. However, also they must keep in mind to respect the culture and the laws of the country where they work.

That rule counts also for holidaymaker, or tourist. Respect the country you visit.

That's why I never could or would immigrate. I do not want to be a stranger in an other country. And that is also the reason I never will visit a Muslim country. I am not sure I could keep my mouth if I see things I do not like. Like for instance...animals abuse , or worse.
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ronyvo
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by ronyvo »

manfred wrote:How should an immigrant adapt to a new country?

How far should he or she "integrate"?

Does integration mean giving up one own values and and culture?
For me personally, it was easy to adapt to western culture. I am a Copt. Living in my birth country as a Christian was a nightmare. Muslims CAN NOT live with others. period. I don't have to go in details here. You folks know enough about this so called religion. Islam, in my opinion, is not a religion.
Muslims are not capable of integrating at all. Their 'holy' book the Koran forbid them to integrate with the infidels.
How far one would or should give up his/her values! My values, as a Christian come from The Holy Bible. That is why I chose America to be my new home.
I did not give up my values in Egypt my own country, and that is why I was in trouble and was lucky to be alive. For the Muslims it is an entirely different story. That is why they are causing the mess in the West. They force their values and culture where ever they go. Never adapt.
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Ibn Rushd
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by Ibn Rushd »

Parks Canada signs demonstrate right, and wrong, way to use toilets
New signs being installed in Parks Canada washrooms near Yoho National Park may make some visitors snicker, but they carry an important message.

That there’s a right, and a wrong, way to use the toilet.

Officials say the effort is aimed at protecting infrastructure, along with keeping visitors and staff safe.

New signage in Parks Canada washrooms outlines the right, and wrong, way to use a toilet.

The signs may make some snicker, but they are about the safety of visitors and staff, officials say.

At the Lake O’Hara parking lot, minutes away from Lake Louise, the men’s and women’s washrooms now have signs showing how to properly use the vaulted toilets.

Officials say cleaning staff were finding broken toilet seats and, quite a mess.

Parks Canada staff says people were squatting on the toilets, rather than sitting on them.

They’re hopeful the new signs will better explain the process in public washrooms.

Tom Hansen is visiting from Vernon, B.C. and doesn’t think more signage is needed.

“There’s different cultures that have holes in the ground for toilets so they have to squat, right, these are actual toilets that are meant to be sat on but they’re quite filthy so no one wants to sit on them I guess,” he said.

Another tourist visiting from Switzerland told CTV News these types of signs are used in a lot of places in Europe.

She said the signs are even at universities to help foreign students who might be away from home for the first time deal with a different toilet system.

Parks Canada says it comes down to safety and cleanliness.

The signage is isolated to the Lake O’Hara parking lot washrooms said visitor experience manager Jed Cochrane.

“Our staff at Lake O’Hara noticed that some of our international visitors weren’t used to how to use a typical western style vault toilet and so that sign was put up to help visitors (know) how those toilets are used,” he said.

Parks Canada says by educating travellers it wants everyone to have a fantastic experience on their visit.
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The toilets are basically a hole in the ground with a raised seat, you are supposed to close the lid after you're finished, as bugs will get in. They are periodically pumped out, as they are like a septic tank. So far only the toilets at one park have been affected by those standing.
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Ariel
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by Ariel »

Ibn Rushd wrote:[url=https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/parks-canada ... se-toilets

The toilets are basically a hole in the ground with a raised seat, you are supposed to close the lid after you're finished, as bugs will get in. They are periodically pumped out, as they are like a septic tank. So far only the toilets at one park have been affected by those standing.
Those signs may be new in Canada, but they are common in Europe.
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Ariel
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Re: Immigration and integration

Post by Ariel »

Are they waking up?
Michel "Mr. Brexit" Barnier wants to halt immigration for up to five years

France needs to reassess its immigration policy due to possible terrorists among migrants

Michel Barnier, the EU's former chief negotiator on Brexit, would suspend migration from outside the European Union, he said in an interview with French television channel RTL. According to the politician, terrorists have been entering Europe among groups of immigrants, so migration should be suspended for three to five years so France can monitor, evaluate and change its immigration policy if necessary. He emphasized, however, that not all asylum seekers arriving in Europe are criminals or terrorists.

Barnier continued by telling RTL that immigration was a threat to the stability of society. According to him, family reunification should be stopped, the process of issuing residence permits should be reviewed, and the use of subsidies provided by the French state should be monitored. He added that students and refugees could apply for a residence permit despite the suspension. Barnier later told France TV that the French government should push for tighter controls on the EU's external borders.

In France, Barnier is considered fundamentally centrist, but critics say he has now moved closer to Marine Le Pen, the leader of the right-wing National Rally, who had previously promised to stop immigration if she were elected president. Barnier, according to Politico in Brussels, refused to be likened to Le Pen, adding that his experience with Brexit warns him against political complacency.

His proposal is widely seen as the unofficial launch of his presidential bid for next year's French elections. Barnier (70), was the European Union's chief negotiator in the Brexit process, hence his nickname, "Mr. Brexit." Barnier was elected to the French National Assembly at the age of 27 and later served as a minister under several prime ministers in France and was also EU Commissioner for two terms.

Since a group of 20 former generals published a letter in April warning of impending civil war in France due to mishandled immigration, the issue has again gained center stage. Recently, French Chief of Staff Francois Lecointre asked the soldiers who had expressed their concerns in another letter published in Valeurs Actuelles to leave the army. Lecointre primarily complained that the soldiers, in the name of their personal convictions, had plunged the army into political disputes in which it is not supposed to intervene.

According to the soldiers who anonymously wrote the open letter to President Emmanuel Macron, ministers and chief officers, the survival of the homeland is at stake in the next election. The signatories condemned, among other things, Islamism and suburban hordes.
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Ariel
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Re: immigration and integration

Post by Ariel »

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EU looked at ‘importing 70 million Africans’ by 2035, says German MEP Gunnar Beck, denouncing ‘disastrous’ new migration pact

By Damian Wilson, a UK journalist, ex-Fleet Street editor, financial industry consultant and political communications special advisor in the UK and EU.

A leading figure in Alternative for Germany, tipped for victory in a German election this week, Gunnar Beck is attacking the EU’s ‘deeply dangerous’ migration pact before it’s enacted under cover of a feelgood summer.
As Germany’s ‘super election year’ focuses on the state of Saxony-Anhalt this Sunday, the disruptors in the nation’s biggest opposition party, Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), are poised for a shock win as its anti-immigration message resonates in the heartlands of former East Germany.

Sitting top of the most recent INSA opinion poll with 26% and having just announced its two lead candidates for September’s federal elections – both supporters of a hard line on immigration – AfD is not about to soften its message.

Senior AfD figure and Euro MP Gunnar Beck said a strong election result would prove a useful weapon in his party’s battle against the European Union’s controversial proposed Pact on Migration and Asylum that looks to enlist its members in a centrally-run redistribution of asylum seekers across the bloc.

“I have myself been working on the EU migration pact for some time and for me the enactment of such a pact would be disastrous,” Beck told RT.com. “Because the EU not too long ago was talking about importing up to 70 million Africans into Europe by 2035. In my humble opinion this is not what we need to modernise our economy.

“And while the figure seems high, when the members of our migration pact campaign - including delegates from Denmark, Estonia, France and Belgium – met with the Commission just last year, that migration figure was brought up but no one at the Commission chose to deny it. “

That suggestion of actively encouraging inward migration to the EU has been floating around Brussels for a while, as governments across the bloc look at ways to address the phenomenon known as the ‘greying of Europe’ where ageing populations aged 65 or older and low birthrates pose ‘considerable social, economic and political challenges in countries such as Germany and Italy’ according to the Pew Research Center, a Washington-based think tank.

Some politicians, such as former European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker believe an influx of younger workers from Africa is the solution.

Meanwhile, the migration pact currently appears stuck in parliamentary committees, the received wisdom is that it’s being deliberately stalled until the outcome of the German federal elections is known in September.

Beck suggests an alternative reason for the unusual delay.

“It's not gone through all the committees in the European Parliament and the negotiations of the Council [of Europe] haven't started but I think the EU would like to push the legislation through from July onwards,” he said.

“Now that all the countries are phasing out the lockdown and people are generally feeling better about themselves and able to leave their homes again. So the possibility is that they’ll try to use the general feelgood atmosphere – summer combined with corona relaxations – to push ahead with this deeply dangerous legislative package,” Beck said.

And maybe Beck’s right. Because the European Parliament’s final plenary session is early July and then it doesn’t sit again until mid-September. If the pact proposals are put to MEPs in July and inevitably passed, there is plenty of time for it to lose its sting over the extended summer break. It will be just like it was there all the time.

That should play well for AfD in the federal elections, which are slated for September 22, but Beck is not so sure.

“It's possible that migration will become an important issue in the federal election,” he said. “And the EU migration pact to those of us in the EU delegation is an important campaign but whether that can be turned into an election campaign is a different story.”

Nevertheless, a win on Sunday for AfD would indicate that despite a huge surge in Green Party popularity nationwide, Germans are interested in more than climate change, particularly in states such as Saxony-Anhalt, home to one of Germany’s three main coal mines. A recent poll there found that climate change was considered important by just 6% of respondents, whereas a national survey found 75% of folk were concerned for the planet.

“The election this week will probably be the first time that we become the strongest single party and that will be a huge success,” he said. “There’s widespread dissatisfaction in east Germany about the state of politics in this country and that dissatisfaction can translate very frictionlessly into increasing support for the AfD because our party is not stigmatised there. In west Germany it’s distinctly more difficult there. The campaign to stigmatise us has been more successful and some of the other parties profit from that dissatisfaction. But not us.”

Those efforts to discredit a party, which would most likely sit alongside the Conservative right in the UK, take a huge electoral toll. Despite coalitions being commonplace in Germany, no one dares buddy-up with AfD.

So, despite topping last week’s poll in Saxony-Anhalt, even if AfD wins the greatest vote share on Sunday, it will be relegated to the opposition benches, thanks to a cosy three-party so-called ‘Kenya’ coalition agreement between the Greens, Social Democrats and Christian Democrats, nicknamed as such because their respective party colours of green, red and black echo the African nation’s flag.

But an AfD victory will have some impact. It would prove no small embarrassment to the ruling establishment, particularly the CDU, who will be facing September’s elections without Angela Merkel and face their own internal battles as some members urge a tilt towards the right under the leadership of charisma-free Armin Laschet.

At least for the time being, however, AfD will take the win and, while it will irk the party to be denied the seat of power, at least its supporters can be sure that they are making a difference.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.
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