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Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:08 am
by Nosuperstition
When we ourselves in India say jokingly/in the lighter vein that the animals that died for the sake of becoming food for us will attain either salvation or a better birth in their next life,how can we find fault with the Chinese when they eat dogs and cats which are of course lesser beings than humans.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:35 pm
by Fernando
The consumption and selling and buying of dog meat is legal in China and at its height of consumption in the third century AD was considered a delicacy. But dog theft, which is reported to fund much of the dog meat industry, is against the law.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/yulin-dog-meat-festival-2016-10000-dogs-set-to-be-killed-and-eaten-at-chinese-food-event-a7093321.html
Madman Mao might have been responsible for a lot of bad things but not this one, it would seem.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:21 am
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
The consumption and selling and buying of dog meat is legal in China and at its height of consumption in the third century AD was considered a delicacy. But dog theft, which is reported to fund much of the dog meat industry, is against the law.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/yulin-dog-meat-festival-2016-10000-dogs-set-to-be-killed-and-eaten-at-chinese-food-event-a7093321.html
Madman Mao might have been responsible for a lot of bad things but not this one, it would seem.


It is said that the modern day Vietnamese are also fond of dog meat.Have read that the war time scarcity of food during the war with Americans in the 1960s forced the Vietnamese to eat whatever they could find.Is that true or does eating dog meat also have historical precedents in that country?

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:18 pm
by Nosuperstition
China says that Indian troops too are constructing roads on their side of the borders in the disputed border territories in Ladakh.However what they fail to mention is that the Doklam area that is the cause of tussle between India and China is the Chicken's neck for India with regards to its North Eastern areas. Ladakh is not a chicken's neck for any Chinese region by any stretch of imagination.

And regarding India using Chinese as 'barbarians at the gates' fear in order to unify its diverse entities,one must not forget that even the British mention constantly that during their aggression in past in China,it was not a homogeneous entity and that is the reason why they could use ethnic minorities against the majority Han Imperial ethnicity.That genetic and/or political / ethnic uniformity was achieved later.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:45 am
by Nosuperstition
I have recently read in an Indian newspaper that Kanishka,the Kushan Emperor successfully beat back an invasion by China.However Kushans are not native to the sub-continent and hail from Central Asia.They did conquer swathes in North India and it is also equally true that Kanishka embraced Indian civilisation a lot and he is even said to have promoted as well as authored works in Indian languages.

Would any historian on this forum of the likes of Ibn Rushd tell me whether the Chinese invasion which Kanishka beat back happened on the subcontinent or in Central Asia?

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:47 pm
by Nosuperstition
I distinctly remember history maps which show the Kushan Empire extend over both North India and Central Asia simultaneously.So where exactly did Kanishka beat back the Chinese?

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:17 pm
by idesigner1
manfred wrote:NS, you really are one strange dude....

Why would it matter what colour skin anyone's ancestors have? What next, not all grandma's have problems with ingrown toenails?

You really need to get away from the race thing, it seems to occupy a lot of your time. And not a lot of rulers EVER thought, hey my cities are getting a bit crowded, let's start a war... Wars are dreadful things, and a sign of all round human failure. They bring only death and suffering, and rarely much else. Sometimes a war is a necessary evil though, as not fighting the war would bring even worse things.

BTW... as skin colour fascinates you so, here is a rather hilarious, useless fact:

ALL the eunuchs in the Ottoman court were always black Africans. Why? The sultans knew that sometimes a castration would be botched or not carried at all, because the person who is supposed to do it got attacks of bad conscience. As Muslims themselves were not keen on doing the deed, the forced Coptic Christians, preferably priests, to castrate the slaves. You can imagine it was not something people did gladly for their tyrants. So some "eunuchs" always "slipped though" the process, some intentionally, some because the man supposed to do it was not competent in such things, or sometimes, when a man gets very frightened his testes recede into the body, (you get a similar effect if you suddenly jump into some cold water...) , enough to fool an inexperienced or unwilling "surgeon".

So the "black only" rule was for a very simple reason: Should any woman in the harem get pregnant, the skin colour of the baby gave away the father.


Yes NS has big preoccupation with color.

Instead of studying Ajanta paintings and composition of harem population and what eunuchs did, he should pay attention to recent DNA studies of Indian population. Fewthousands samples are available. Study haplo groups, Mtca, Y chromosomes and you will find out that India did receive lots of migrant populations from Central Asia and Central Europe going back to more than 5000 years , all were not aryan. After all it was a big continent an people of various shades of colours were living there. Ofcourse lighter skin people are disperse all over but lot many can be found in north.Dark skin people arrived way back some 50000 years ago when Sapens migrated out from Africa.This group formed a backbone of Indian continent and rest came later, many were light skinned from Central Asia , Iran, Central Europe.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:00 pm
by Nosuperstition
Study haplo groups, Mtca, Y chromosomes and you will find out that India did receive lots of migrant populations from Central Asia and Central Europe going back to more than 5000 years , all were not aryan
.

Now one supposed member Hindutva member of the old forum said that fairer skin could be due to lot of rapes including rights of first nights imposed on a conquered population by conquerers from other nations.Now is there any scientific method that can accurately say that so and so gene is more than 5000 years old and not some 2000 years old or 900 years old or 200 years old?Now people say that reverse could also be true in that people of Indus valley could have migrated in the other direction thereby accounting for the correlation observed in linguistic studies.Linguistic paleontology is therefore a pseudo science according to them.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:31 am
by idesigner1
Nosuperstition wrote:
Study haplo groups, Mtca, Y chromosomes and you will find out that India did receive lots of migrant populations from Central Asia and Central Europe going back to more than 5000 years , all were not aryan
.

Now one supposed member Hindutva member of the old forum said that fairer skin could be due to lot of rapes including rights of first nights imposed on a conquered population by conquerers from other nations.Now is there any scientific method that can accurately say that so and so gene is more than 5000 years old and not some 2000 years old or 900 years old or 200 years old?Now people say that reverse could also be true in that people of Indus valley could have migrated in the other direction thereby accounting for the correlation observed in linguistic studies.Linguistic paleontology is therefore a pseudo science according to them.


I will rather discuss genetic DNA marker data than hindutava, rapes and purchase of fair kin girls by rulers etc.Yes rape and kidnap happened all the time in ancient societies.

Our focus should be out of Africa migration to India around 45000 years ago. Also the most ancient Indian DNA of Andaman natives found in many tribes of India is of interest. Some tribes of India do have DNA similar to Australian natives or they migrated there via India.
After development of agriculture in Babylon and Iran big migration of agriculturists took place around 10000 years ago. Ofcourse in India also indigenous agriculture developed in Sindh. Huge exchange of population took place in this region. Some migrants were fair skin.These are the people who d later develop mohenjodaro and Dravidian culture. Some Harappa skeleton's DNA closely match with even modern Indian inhabitants. Later came huge migration of pastoral culture, Among them , Aryans were most prominent and left lots of oral traditions and later morph to Hinduism.They were mostly from Iran, later other central Asians like Shaka, Kushan, Huns entered India , later will followed by Turks, Moghuls etc till Panipat war.Ofcourse there were lots of fair skin genes they brought.

Yes if enough skeletons are found and have lots of DNA data from present human groups , migration can be dated. Mutations can help dating migrations. Present day DNA study of Europeans in US does tell us their migration routes. If we have lots of samples migration dates can be dated.

Have a scientific mind and interests instead of mumbojumbo talk of chauvinists. It's not secret that fair skin Indians ancestors might have come from north, they didn't come from ancient Australia or Newguinea! Many chauvinist disregard all scientific date and insists Indians went to Scandinavia and became Vikings!

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:20 pm
by Nosuperstition
I will rather discuss genetic DNA marker data than hindutava, rapes and purchase of fair kin girls by rulers etc.Yes rape and kidnap happened all the time in ancient societies.


In the old forum as well as in this very forum you said that the Hindu Marathas(under and after Shivaji) were far worse than Muslims rulers who preceded them in terms of loot,rape etc.Yohan also took Saraswat Brahmins of Maharashtra to task time and again.Now you do not want to discuss them. Thats o.k with me.

Later came huge migration of pastoral culture, Among them , Aryans were most prominent and left lots of oral traditions and later morph to Hinduism.They were mostly from Iran,


I hope so that what you have said with regards to the Aryans/the Iranians does not fall under 'appeal to authority' logical fallacy.It is however true that some linguists have found out that some languages in South Pakistan and parts of Afghanistan and Iran are more closely related to Dravidian languages in South India than to Punjabi etc.And also worth noting that in present day Dravidian languages,I have observed that words of day to day usage are completely different from the equivalent Sanskrit loan words.

Re: Hey Indians not all of your ancestors are white skinned

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:10 pm
by Nosuperstition
Yes NS has big preoccupation with color.


Now if I remember correctly it was you yourself who said in the old forum that people of the sub-continent are not color blind and highly color conscious.Now why try to put the onus back on me?People even went to extent of quoting ads commonly found in matrimonials where requisite color is described.

Have a scientific mind and interests instead of mumbojumbo talk of chauvinists. It's not secret that fair skin Indians ancestors might have come from north, they didn't come from ancient Australia or Newguinea! Many chauvinist disregard all scientific date and insists Indians went to Scandinavia and became Vikings!


Yes no Rosetta stone similar to that found in Egypt which facilitates conversion of Egyptian hieroglyphics to Greek alphabets has been found in the scientific excavations in the Indus valley.So we do not even know for sure whether the language spoken by the people of Indus valley is proto-Dravidian or proto-Indo-Aryan.So one must hold their breath before making widely sweeping statements that people of Indus valley spoke Dravidian and are linguistically Aryanised by Aryans of Iran or Southern Europe or whatever atleast until the Indus valley scripts are deciphered.