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war rape

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:31 pm
by Nosuperstition
Someone in this forum possibly frankie said that in wars things such as rape happen as it is a war.In the film casualities of War,Sean Penn who stars as the rapist soldier of Vietnam first calls a peasant girl as Viet Cong whore and then rapes her.Now this is much similiar to muslims raping Scandinavian women calling them whores and Hindu god Ganesh raping a prostitute with impunity only difference being they did not/do not happen in war situations.A rape however is a rape and according to pr126,a raped woman experiences intense trauma due to the incident.Can it ever be condoned in case of wars?

If so then why does idesigner1 frequently take Marathas to task as being far worst rapists and looters than muslims in that they raped even a lot many fellow Hindus in their war campaigns in Bengal and Rajputana?

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:56 pm
by Nosuperstition
I have heard that only women in Bengal and Rajputana look more beautiful when compared with women of other states in India.These two areas also experienced prolonged muslim rule.May be right of first night was imposed on a greater scale and as a result of more muslim genes in them,people of these two regions look better.

Now the Armenian genocide took place in Turkey as Orthodox Christians supposedly raped muslim Turk women when their men folk were away fighting in the first world war.Might be just like hrdgrk said that those Greek women that did not commit suicide upon being carried away by Turks are whores and their offspring bastards,might be Marathas too thought that those Hindus who were in cahoots with muslim rulers due to prolonged muslim rule and due to genetic mixing are all whores and bastards worthy of raping.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:22 am
by Nosuperstition
Or perhaps just like you call a dog mad before putting it to death regardless of whether or not it is really mad,you call a woman bitch when you wish to rape her regardless of whether or not she is really a whore.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:26 pm
by sum
Do any religions other than Islam condone rape of captives?

sum

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:12 am
by pr126
Do any religions other than Islam conduct perpetual holy war against all others in the name of their deity?

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:36 pm
by Nosuperstition
idesigner1 and Yohan frequently used to harp on atrocities committed by Marathas.idesigner1 said that those atrocities were recorded in annals of Rajputs.

Well according to what I have learned between my 6th and 9th standards in essays about forts and history of Rajputs in Andhra Bhoomi weekly editions, Rajputs even used to take right hand possession of women of their fellow defeated Rajputs at times during wars.This is contrary to what had been laid out in Manu dharma sastras/Mahabharatha.I could not understand the import of these actions back then.

But right now after having known at FFI that rape of opposite side happened even among Buddhists of S.E Asia during wars and that monks used to pacify the raped victims that their opponents will be brought to justice for their karma in their next life/that victims got victimised possibly due to the karma of their previous births,I understand that rape is something bound to happen in times of war.

The same happened amongst Christian fights for supremacy in Europe during the World Wars and at times during medieval fights without any concern for chivalry.However when muslims attacked,the Rajputs formed into a confederacy that prevented the successful of establishment of Islamic Empire in India for 400-500 years.It was only the Turks who broke this Rajput confederacy to successfully establish a Sultanate at Delhi.

That Rajputs who treated one another with such disdain could form a united confederacy to push back muslim invasions proves beyond doubt yam's words that hatred unites people much more than love does.Possibly that is the reason why idesigner said that in future Christian right wing parties will seize power in all countries of significant muslim presence and would deal harshly with muslims.

idesigner1 wrote: Sooner or later there will be a backlash against Muslims and many new radical christian parties will fight Muslims.


viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16150&p=212187&hilit=backlash#p212187

Afterall the Mauryan Empire lasted not for more than 90 years whereas the Vijayanagar Empire that was based on preventing muslim rule from spreading to South India lasted for more than 250 years.Hatred does unite people much more than love.

Even today human trafficking occurs widely through out the world and also in India.If people who were not educated in the Kama Sutra and 'ends justifies means' Arthasastra could involve themselves in such activity due to being able to think on their own,it is not hard to understand that it is only natural that ancient kings of India for whom these two texts were part of curriculum always abided not by laws of chivalry of Manusmriti/Mahabharata and did indeed take right hand possessions and inscribed those events in stone to proclaim their acts of supposed bravery.

Moreover Hindu texts are supposed to begin their journey of spiritual sublimation right from composition of the Upanishads.In Vedas, tribes used to attack other tribes and take spoils of war just as the chosen people of God,the Jews, did in the Old Testament and just like new chosen people Christians did mimicking the Jews.There is a bit of sublimation in the Manusmriti laws/Mahabharatha laws in that the spirit of golden rule was upheld when it asked not to take right hand possessions.

Also when the royal class themselves take right hand possessions of rival royal class women during wars,it is not hard to understand that by any stretch of imagination that they would not treat their commoners too with disdain.

Is there any religion that mandates continuous spread by force with divine sanction? asked pr126.According to many critics of Hinduism,it too had spread by force in the past using slogans such as Charaiveti Charaiveti (move on and on ).Krunvanto vishwam Aryan(make the whole world noble) in its war campaigns.

But then even in the Hindu world everyone did not become noble-like.For example those of royal houses and higher echelons are known for sublimation while those of lower crust are known for being base.Then where is the question of making the whole world noble?

Then there once again arises the correlation between material prosperity and gentler/nobler behaviour.Since religions tend not to hand over everyone the same piece of pie,how do they achieve same level of nobility amongst all of the population?

Perhaps Hinduism is more akin to pre-Islamic Persian culture where according to Ayatollahs only noble women wore the burkhas while egalitarian Islam turned everyone into nobles by allowing all of them to wear burkhas.

Also worth noting that Hinduism did not finish off Buddhism in the sub-continent as had been observed by Muslim travellers for more than 400-500 years period when the sub-continent was not conquered.

Regarding Christianity mandating continuous conflict for world domination,right now that is not the case.Reason is simple.Christians are not producing a baby boom at par with muslims atleast in the West.Genocide of native americans and colonisation happened as each Christian family of Europe had atmost 2 acres of land over which they had to fight continuously for their share of property as more and more children were produced.So they asked God the heathen for their inheritance and thought he delivered the same when the natives could not match them in arms.

And regarding Rajputs taking other Rajput women of defeated fellow Rajputs as right hand possessions,it is not solely restricted to them.Various objective Indian historians have documented history from solid evidence such as rock inscriptions that enslavement of women of rival parties happened many times and such acts were glorified as acts of bravery in pre-Islamic India.

Perhaps some were like the Russians who suffered severe losses in WW II and hence saw the defeated Germans as slaves who can be used for war reparations in concentration camps.Others might have behaved like U.S.A that did not suffer as much industrially due to German aggression and hence were chivalrous in treating the Germans with dignity even after their defeat.So essentially people were seen as property that could be exchanged or profited from for any investment made in war or as reparations to be paid for losses incurred in wars.So it is only natural that even fellow Hindus were slaughtered and enslaved by Hindu victors during wars inspite of prohibitions by Manusmriti/Mahabharatha.

Since Hindu gurus themselves accept that their holy scriptures right upto the Vedas were corrupted due to influence of Kali of Kali yug might be they will shrug off these prescriptive verses of war namely charaiveti charaiveti and krunvanto vishwam aryan which occur only in secondary scriptures called the Puranas.

Do not let many souls to be contaminated by continuously airing and listening to anti-Pakistani hate propaganda on All India Radio,the medium most accessible to most Indians.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:39 pm
by Nosuperstition
Soldiers of most religions pray before they embark on a war .So in this sense every war has a divine sanction.For them those on the opposite side constitute either people of Satan or the wretched Asuras(demons).

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:12 pm
by Nosuperstition
Japanese soldiers took along with them prostitutes when they first invaded China during the boxer rebellion along with other industrialised nations of the West.They were appalled that the Western forces were resorting to open rape of chaste Chinese women to satisfy their carnal needs.Now it seems after learning these things from Western forces,they devised the concept of comfort women during WW II.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:55 pm
by Nosuperstition
Ukraine's Orthodox Church head claims Vladimir Putin is possessed by Satan and faces eternal damnation in hell in statement titled "New Cain"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11079988/Vladimir-Putin-possessed-by-Satan-and-faces-eternal-damnation.html

Perhaps hatred that gets espoused during wars is so intense and tempers run so high that people of the other warring party will automatically be labelled those of Satan.Perhaps this is why Indra of Hindu Matsya Purana allowed asura women (read Dravidian or aboriginal women ) to be taken as right hand possessions and turned them into lowly temple dancers.Even fellow muslim women of Bangladesh were not spared by Pakistani army in the war of liberation of 1971.

But then Hindu mythology is rife with examples of humans such as Jamadagni and Bheema marrying asura women such as Renuka and Hidimbi and begetting children through them.Perhaps term asura is not always considered that inauspicious.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:16 pm
by Nosuperstition
There is a popular example of a gentile woman Ruth marrying a Jew in Odd Testament book of Christianity.But then to fulfill her marriage,Ruth had to completely adapt herself to the customs and traditions of Jews whereas in case of Hindu inter-race marriages,people had the option to practice freely much of their own customs as there is no stricture of worship of one God and as Hinduism tends to be syncretic.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:47 pm
by Nosuperstition
I wrote:But then Hindu mythology is rife with examples of humans such as Jamadagni and Bheema marrying asura women such as Renuka and Hidimbi and begetting children through them.Perhaps term asura is not always considered that inauspicious.


He went into the Bindhya forest to get the story from the Pisacha and wrote down the story with his own blood in the Paisachi language.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihatkatha#Mythical_origin

Pisacha means ghost.And ghosts are supposed to reside in cemetaries and forests.For this reason possibly language of the forest dwellers was called Paisachi or ghostly.So Hindus of those days knew that forest dwellers too had excellent stories and hence appropriated them just like missionaries who got to know the cure for malaria from native americans of South America and just like Hindu medicinal items such as neem and turmeric being patented in the West nowadays.

Similiarly Daivam is called a Prakruti word or a pure word of Sanskrit in Telugu,while its Vikruti or erroneously pronounced Telugu form is Deyyam.Telugu and most South Indian languages are a mix of Sanskrit,Prakrit and aboriginal Gond tongues according to linguistic anthropologists.However people as of today commonly understand daivam as divinity and deyyam as ghost from which one must stay away and to which one is not prayed to.Shows that early deities of aborigines were considered by caste Hindus as ghosts or that they prayed to ghosts.Later Brahmanism accepted most supernatural forces of aborigines as divinities.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:06 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now what is the difference between a ghost and a demon in Hindu theological terms?According to one view,a ghost upon performing stringent penance in the name of one of the Trinity of Hinduism will gets metamorphed into a more powerful supernatural being called demon.So if one uses ghosts , demons and gods interchangeably with humans,it means native women were carried away by Aryan chiefs after their victorious battles.

However while famous Australian historian Basham acknowledges that while women of rival clans or tribes were indeed carried away sometimes after wars , for the most part Hindu laws of chivalry were indeed respected by the rulers.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:18 am
by Nosuperstition
Now I constantly hear skynightblaze,darth and others chastise Muslims for saying that it is impossible for the Jewish woman Juwaiarah or someone to marry Mohammed the same day/a few days afte he killed her family/her husband.No pious woman would do that and therefore what happened between the prophet and Juwaraiah is rape so goes the argument according to many members of this forum.The prophet is thus made out to be a rapist.

But then when arrogant Kshatriyas misrule the lands of their possession,Parashurama,an incarnation of lord Vishnu supposedly slaughtered them and got their wives pregnant with Brahmin men and thus fathered through them supposedly cultured generations of kings according to Hindu folklore.Now how could these queens bed with their tormentors who killed their husbands is a question that begs answer.Now is that also not rape?

Now the first guru of Sikhs was moved by the plight of Hindu royal women who were subject to rape after their husbands were slaughtered.After being violated,they were frisked away to the Muslim harems.Now how could those Hindu women think of bedding with their tormentors.If women could bed with their tormentors in these situations,then it is not hard for Juwairah to bed Mohammed the day he killed her family.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:31 am
by Nosuperstition
On the condition of Hindu women in Babur's monster rule:

Those heads adorned with braided hair, with their parts painted with vermillion - those heads were shaved with scissors, and their throats were choked with dust.They lived in palatial mansions, but now, they cannot even sit near the palaces.... ropes were put around their necks, and their strings of pearls were broken. Their wealth and youthful beauty, which gave them so much pleasure, have now become their enemies The order was given to the soldiers, who dishonored them, and carried them away. If it is pleasing to God's Will, He bestows greatness; if is pleases His Will, He bestows punishment


http://www.oocities.org/hindoo_humanist/mughal.html

So all women will not kill themselves as hrdgreek put it in the situation of rape.Perhaps for this reason when fighting muslims,Hindus had to kill their wives and children by throwing them into fire and then rushing forward to fight until death.Now this process is called Shaka / Saka possibly indicating its origins in the practice of Scythians who adopted Hindu ways but still retained some of their Central Asian warrior practices.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:51 pm
by Nosuperstition
Regarding war rape sanctioned in the Bible,there seem to exist two stances.

1)When a far off city is delivered into the hands of the chosen people , they can make the remainder of that city as slaves.

2)Moses explicitly allows only the Midianite virgin women to his men while ordering the slaughter of all men,children and non-virgin women possibly in the holy land.If this verse is to be taken as an all time standard then many more women are to die than in the Islamic case in that if they got married,they are surely to be put to death.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:08 pm
by Nosuperstition
10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

12And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.


http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Deuteronomy&chapter=20&verse=12&t=1

Much like muslims killing off all males and taking women and children captive.

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+21:10-14

I understand that if the pagan woman tries to lure any of the chosen people to idolatry then only shall all their non-virgin women will die.Else they will remain slaves or forced wives / raped wives.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:57 pm
by Nosuperstition
Renuka, the demon wife and daughter of demon king and wife of Brahmin sage Jamadagni is also called Yellamma.Literal meaning of word Yellamma is she who is at outskirts of the village.Now it is the outcastes who generally live in the borders of the villages.So if one were extract facts from fiction,it meant outcaste people were once the tribal rulers who were then banished to the village outskirts after being defeated in the wars for land.It also means that asuras are none other than Dalits who were originally tribals.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:55 pm
by Nosuperstition
Al-Beruni observed that Brahmins used to make outcastes of Kshatriyas who lost in battles.Since demon kings,the original rulers of sub-continent opted for Buddhism as it offered them spiritual equality at par with others,they too could have retained their kingdoms for time being.However when Hinduism became dominant force beginning with Gupta conquest of most of sub-continent,might be demon kings who lost battles were relegated to outcastes who live near village borders.Thus they would have continued to worship border goddesses such as Renuka or Yellamma.

When Dr.B.R.Ambedkar said that some of the outcastes were once Kshatriyas,perhaps he was arriving at a conclusion based on these premises.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:37 pm
by Nosuperstition
Krishna Deva Raya demanded that he along with the stolen money be returned back to Vijaya Nagar.The muslim principalities refused to comply.This led to an invasion.That is much more similiar to an asylum being granted to an enemy of Delhi Sultan by Hindu ruler of Kampili ,refusal of which prompted invasion of Kampili.Similiar to Bin Laden being granted safe haven by Taliban which resulted in the invasion of Afghanistan upon their refusal to hand him back to the U.S.A.The king is said to have given an arousing speech/inflammatory speech whichever way one sees it to his soldiers that caused them to completely rout the muslim armies.However muslim civilians were not molested in the defeated areas.


viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16199&p=212616&hilit=molested#p212616

The above mentioned king also led an expansionist campaign against fellow Hindu kingdom of Gajapathis.When siege was laid to the plain fort of Kondavidu,it ran out of supplies and finally succumbed after a period of some 40 days or so.But just before it fell,all the womenfolk of the palace committed Jauhar according to the information given in the Telugu non-detailed text of my class XII.Shows that inspite of prohibitory injunctions of chivalry from both the Hindu texts of Manusmriti and the Mahabharatha,womenfolk of the plain fort of Kondaveedu considered the possibility of rape at the hands of their fellow Hindu victorious rulers of Vijayanagar a real possibility.However the king was generous and he allowed the previous king to continue but as a ruler below his authority.

This shows that wars themselves raise emotions so high that chances of rape are considered quite real even if the fight is between the of rulers of the same religion.

Re: war rape

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:55 pm
by Nosuperstition
I have read a cartoon story about a real incident of Suttee committed by a Rajput woman of antiquity when she was about to fall into the hands of a rival Rajput king who defeated and killed her husband in my childhood in the Eenadu newspaper.She is deified and still worshipped somewhere in Rajasthan or Gujarat.So this phenomenon of trying to get hold of women of rivals is not unique to Muslims alone.