Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

For topics which do not fit into any of the other categories.
Post Reply
User avatar
Garudaman
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:39 am

Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by Garudaman »

Genesis :
21:12. But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
21:13. I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”
22:1. Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
22:2. Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”


how can it be called a test, if Abraham had previously been told if his son will have offspring? :???: itsn't it show compilation error sequence of verses? :ermm:
User avatar
manfred
Posts: 11602
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:29 pm

Re: Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by manfred »

Hi,
This is quite a deliberate literary device. The order of the story in not a mistake, but on purpose:

Abraham knows that much depends on Isaac. God's promise to Abraham (Which means "father of many") was that he will have many, many descendents. Here this is further clarified: he will have many descendents FROM ISAAC, and the children of Ishmael will be a "different nation".

Then AFTER all of this, comes the thunderbolt: Go to Moriah. Sacrifice Isaac as a burnt offering.

So, what does Abraham do? Rebel? Complain that this is unfair because it goes against the promise received before?

He doesn't. That is the whole point of the section. DESPITE of this quite mad, seemingly cruel contradictory command, Abraham does what he was asked to do. He goes along with it, perhaps hesitatingly, but he does it.

The point of the story is that Abraham has complete trust in God. He believes that anything God asks of him will turn out for the better in the end. That is what the author is getting at. That is why the story is this way round.

Then, at the last moment, when Abraham hold the knife at the throat of Isaac, God tells his to stop, and he finds a ram just behind him, to be sacrificed instead.


The story that several points to make:

1) God keeps his promise, even if it does not always look that way
2) Therefore it is not dumb to trust in God like Abraham did.
3) This was less of a test but more of a lesson. Learn to trust in God. Things that look dire and horrible are not always what they seem.
4) The final point was that human sacrifice was rejected. This passage is telling us that God does not require human sacrifice.

It is these ideas that the ancient writer wanted us to think about.

It is a very old story, garudaman, and it covers ideas that would not belong to our world, like human sacrifice. It did belong to Abraham;' world, though.

But it still has a message worth thinking about for a minute. This old text tells us that by TRUSTING in God we may learn more about God and get closer to Him. This message is often repeated in both parts of the Christian bible. Jesus taught it too.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"
User avatar
Garudaman
Posts: 1266
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:39 am

Re: Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by Garudaman »

I don't know, to me it looks like, Abraham had been told/informed the answer from the test that he will do, but at least from here it can be known if Christians don't consider this sequence of verses compilation as an error! ;)
Eagle
Posts: 2093
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:37 pm

Re: Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by Eagle »

It still trumps the test Manfred since the possibility in Abraham's mind that God does not lie and keeps His promises exists.

Simply, all these promises of blessings, and Isaac's birth itself, came as rewards resulting from Abraham's succesfull passing of the trial relating to his "only son", who could not have been other than Ishmael at the time.

The Quran paints a different picture. Ibrahim, who had formerly shown great spiritual resolve by turning away from his disbelieving closest relatives and migrated, was being tested a step further as an upholder of God's way and will, through his own progeny which he had so long desired and prayed God for, with the aim of making him nearer to God and the universal leader (Imam) of monotheism 2:124. This was another step in Ibrahim's remarkable journey as a servant who proceeds from his "self" to his Lord, freeing himself from desires of prestige, wealth, women and children and turning with total surrender and progressing with complete devotion to the Lord "Surely I fly to my lord; He will guide me".

As regards the test, the Quran says Ibrahim saw a dream concerning his only beloved son 37:102-110. It also says Prophets receive revelation through symbolical dreams.
The Quran does not say that Allah ordered Ibrahim to sacrifice his son, and speaks of Ibrahim being tried with 2:124"certain words". The flesh and blood of animals per se isnt what satisfies Allah 22:37 much less of human beings 6:137-140 but rather the offering with deep God-consciousness of something one values as depicted in the story of Abel and Cain.

When Ibrahim binded his only beloved son and raised his hand with the knife he was stopped from going further 37:105"you have made the vision true..Most surely this is a manifest trial". This shows that Ibrahim's vision was that he was GOING to sacrifice his son and not that he had sacrificed him. The act of slaughtering was therefore not part of the divine vision since it was not needed for its fulfilment, rather the preparedness to do it amounted to its fulfilment.
truthanvil.blogspot.com
Yohan
Posts: 2272
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by Yohan »

Garudaman wrote:Genesis :
21:12. But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.
21:13. I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”
22:1. Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
22:2. Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”


how can it be called a test, if Abraham had previously been told if his son will have offspring? :???: itsn't it show compilation error sequence of verses? :ermm:
Why should Christians care about Genesis, the book of the Jews? Christians are called Christians because they follow the teachings of Christ, and NOT Abraham (he is only of historical importance).
User avatar
kaimana1
Posts: 341
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:46 am

Re: Why No Christians Care about This Compilation Error

Post by kaimana1 »

When Ibrahim binded his only beloved son and raised his hand with the knife he was stopped from going further 37:105"you have made the vision true..Most surely this is a manifest trial". This shows that Ibrahim's vision was that he was GOING to sacrifice his son and not that he had sacrificed him. The act of slaughtering was therefore not part of the divine vision since it was not needed for its fulfilment, rather the preparedness to do it amounted to its fulfilment
:lotpot: Now, i am truly convinced that our dear eagle reads ali into certain verses in the qur'aan!
So which shi'a ar you eagle?

twelver, sevener, fiver or other?
Post Reply