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Islam and logic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:35 am
by manfred
When discussing Islam with Muslims sooner or later we all come across some strange and wonderful leaps of thought, and you don't know if you should laugh or cry...

Most revolve around broadening or narrowing definitions or concepts to fit in with Islamic teachings....

Here are some I saw recently....

Discussion: The story of Dhul Qarnayn are re-told versions of part of a Hellenistic collection of folk tales which are found, the so-called Alexander Romance.

Response: These texts are newer than the Qur'an, so that could not be true.
Reply: links showing the oldest versions, including one in Aristotle...

Response, but because they have been revised they cannot be a source for the Qur'an...


Discussion: there were no coins or weights called Dirham in use in 1800BC in Egypt. Archaeological evidence for first use of a dirham.

Response: Egyptians weighed things. They traded, They paid for things. Therefore they used Dirhams.


discussion: the barrier of gog and magog.. where is it?
response: it no longer exists
reply: as the quran says when it disappears, on that day judgement day will happen. Why are we still here?
response: "On that day" does not mean "that day"...


Discussion: sources used by Mohammed used... text similarities etc...

Response: similarity does not mean plagiarism. Therefore biblical texts are corrupt and the Qur'an is 100% divine and accurate, because and angel dictated it. It says that in the Qur'an, and that one is 100% divine and accurate, so it must be true....

discussion: Crucifixion was not used as a form of capital punishment in Egypt. (invention later, in Persia)

response: they used impalement. That is the same thing.


Please add some more...

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:41 am
by Garudaman
its your job to prove that its illogical, as its your job to prove that islam is wrong, so stops whining/complaints & starts makes irrefutable arguments! :lotpot:

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:13 am
by Fernando
Here's another one, then:
Discussion: lots of things in the Koran can be shown to be incorrect. Evidence and references are given.
Response: You are wrong. Stop whining and prove it.

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:21 pm
by frankie
Garudaman wrote:its your job to prove that its illogical, as its your job to prove that islam is wrong, so stops whining/complaints & starts makes irrefutable arguments! :lotpot:


The question of the sun setting according to Islam is not only illogical, but it is scientifically wrong, which should not be the case if the Quran were from an omniscient being.

I am proving Islam is illogical and wrong, what is your response?

Narrated Abu Dharr:
I was sitting behind the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets ? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water (Hamiyah).
Dar-us-Salam reference Sunan Abu Dawud Hadith 4002

Ahmad Hasan translation Hadith 3991 ... dith-4002/

Quran 18.86

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness

Tafsir 18.86
Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun) where the sun sets, (he found it setting in a muddy spring) a blackened, muddy and stinking spring; it is also said that this means: a hot spring, (and found a people thereabout) these people were disbelievers: (We said: O Dhu'l-Qarnayn!) We inspired him (Either punish) either kill them until they accept to believe that there is no deity except Allah (or show them kindness) or you pardon them and let them be.

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:29 am
by frankie

Are you going to answer my question, or are you like your co religionist Eagle, running as "fast as your legs will carry you" away from such questions put to you?

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:30 pm
by Garudaman
that verse & that hadith said that sun looks like set in what looks like muddy waters, your question is wrong.

Re: Islam and logic

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:31 pm
by manfred
Another one:

Jesus is the "Messiah" according to the QUr'an, but the "messianic age" does not start with Jesus...

Just as the Victorian age started some unspecified centuries after Queen Victoria....

and a "spirit" is a "man" , and that is the ONLY use of the word, not even a kind of bottle from which my nephew drank when he told a Russian policeman to shoot himself into the balls and die dancing... (to which he said "da" and smiled, because he did not understand English)

all courtesy of eagle...