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Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:03 pm
by Nosuperstition
IoshkaFutz wrote:The church's view of yoga as a means for relaxation or to improve concentration is about the same as her view for strawberries to make the taste buds tingle. But if from a purely physical thing it becomes an ideology and enters the moral sphere, then she makes objections where she considers matters objectionable.

Might be the church does not want Easterners to be granted their due.

You will find that Eastern religions are the ones that don't give Eastern men and women their due... and not by a long shot. Castes, cow veneration, suttee, ancestor veneration, or in the case of Islam insane-belief... do NOT give any man, no matter his geographical location, his due. No religion has given man his due better than Christianity. What is man's due? Morality and reason and a certain equality (not to be mistaken for today's egalitarianism).


The church's view of yoga as a means for relaxation or to improve concentration is about the same as her view for strawberries to make the taste buds tingle.


Well,chanting names of gods or concentrating upon somethings while meditating is similiar to idolatry and Christians are supposed to be free from idolatry.I dunno why then did the Catholic Church deify pagan gods in Latin America as saints.

Castes


Well ,what was caste to Hindus class is to Europeans.This is what was stated by Europeans themselves of those periods.Class is justified by the scripture in Christianity.God himself said that 'I created the rich and poor'.'All the silver is mine,all the gold is mine' says the lord.By ipso moto silver,gold and other things must belong to Christians right? Word caste is also Portuguese in origin.

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1820&p=44192#p44192

cow veneration.


To manufacture 1 kg of beef,you need 7 kgs of grain.To manufacture pork,chicken etc, it does require lesser amounts of grain.The U.S senate/congress itself stated that India escaped civil strife thanks to veneration of vegetarianism.In the middle ages of pure Christianity,only kings and soldiers ate beef.

Your darling dio smartly said that I will get cheap beef and other non-vege diet if vegans do not eat it.She then pitches against abortion(saying that let us feed those fetuses that we are aborting to people of third world countries yuk yuk yuk) in a different thread ignoring the fact that her attitude means lesser number of souls for her master above.

suttee


No more reprehensible than heretic burning,witch burning,pagan burning,scientist burning,persecuting surgeons,low class woman burning etc.

ancestor veneration


I saw in the discovery channel that Italians are quite proud of their ancestral heritage(I think it was Justine Sharpio, who was a Jew.She also said that in the U.S crimes of chattel slavery are being covered up.She was uneasy while taking coconut toddy in Kerala amidst Indian males.She supposedly took a piece of Jewish fort stone/brick with her while she was a kid confessed repented for having done that when she re-visited Israel.

THHuxley also keeps Roman artifacts with him.He mentioned about having phallic artifacts(also saw in the colosseum scenes of the Gladiator) in his collection which were used as a means of warding of evil while entering houses(somethiung which the Irish do till this date with garlic etc).Cross is also a fertility symbol of ME.Catholic Church also 'Christianised' pagan festivals,trees,idols resembling Isis of Egypt etc and holidays.

morality and reason


Define these things.It is stated in this forum that less than 1% of all the Christians have read the Bible even though it was the most published book in all of history followed by Mao's Red book or vice versa.So how exactly are Christians most reasonable based on the Bible?

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:41 am
by Nosuperstition
Ioshkafutz wrote:Might be the church does not want Easterners to be granted their due.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=704&p=15508#p15508

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=704&p=55373#p55373

You are no different from balls etc in trying not to give credit to the native religions wherever it is due and attempt to completely rewrite history to suit your colonial/Imperial agenda.

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:15 pm
by IoshkaFutz
Nosuperstition wrote:
Ioshkafutz wrote:Might be the church does not want Easterners to be granted their due.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=704&p=15508#p15508

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=704&p=55373#p55373

You are no different from balls etc in trying not to give credit to the native religions wherever it is due and attempt to completely rewrite history to suit your colonial/Imperial agenda.


Ha! My colonial/imperial agenda. I love it. You made my day.

Chew on this a while.

For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:26-28; cf. Colossians 3:10-11)

These fundamental Christian principles were the leaven which slowly and steadily spread throughout the whole empire. They curtailed the abuses of slavery and finally destroyed it (Vincent, "Philippians and Philemon", Cambridge, 1902, 167).

=================================

ANIMAL WORSHIP IN INDIA TODAY

Even as Egypt excelled in animal worship in ancient times, so India does in modern times. There, until the new Indian government put a bounty on monkey heads, monkeys were eating $2 million worth of foodstuffs a day as well as destroying enormous amounts of grain annually. People starved, but not the monkeys, nor the peacocks, for they also were sacred. Snakes keep taking a toll of 50,000 lives annually because they are considered sacred.

On April 2, 1955, the prime minister of India, Nehru, had to go to the extreme of threatening to resign to prevent the passage of a bill that would have made it illegal to kill cows, a bill presented by a member of his own Congress party. Reporting on this the New York Times, April 3, 1955, further stated: The issue on the ban on cow slaughter is one that is alive almost all the time in many parts of the country. Almost every week in New Delhi small bands of religious Hindus parade through the streets carrying yellow banners demanding an end to the killing of cows. Millions of cows too old to be of any use wander through the streets nibbling at food in stalls. Many Hindus make a practice of keeping food to give to cows. Indian cows are among the poorest milk-producing strains in the world." Unable to kill useless and diseased cows, the government has resorted to segregation centers for such cows, but progress has been slow.

Illustrating the folly of such cow worship and the caste system is this: when an untouchable had used a well it had to be sanctified by having sacred cow manure thrown into it!

===========================================
Case Study:
Female Infanticide

Focus:
(1) India
(2) China

http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html

Focus (1): India

As John-Thor Dahlburg points out, "in rural India, the centuries-old practice of female infanticide can still be considered a wise course of action." (Dahlburg, "Where killing baby girls 'is no big sin'," The Los Angeles Times [in The Toronto Star, February 28, 1994.]) According to census statistics, "From 972 females for every 1,000 males in 1901 ... the gender imbalance has tilted to 929 females per 1,000 males. ... In the nearly 300 poor hamlets of the Usilampatti area of Tamil Nadu [state], as many as 196 girls died under suspicious circumstances [in 1993] ... Some were fed dry, unhulled rice that punctured their windpipes, or were made to swallow poisonous powdered fertilizer. Others were smothered with a wet towel, strangled or allowed to starve to death." Dahlburg profiles one disturbing case from Tamil Nadu:

Lakshmi already had one daughter, so when she gave birth to a second girl, she killed her. For the three days of her second child's short life, Lakshmi admits, she refused to nurse her. To silence the infant's famished cries, the impoverished village woman squeezed the milky sap from an oleander shrub, mixed it with castor oil, and forced the poisonous potion down the newborn's throat. The baby bled from the nose, then died soon afterward. Female neighbors buried her in a small hole near Lakshmi's square thatched hut of sunbaked mud. They sympathized with Lakshmi, and in the same circumstances, some would probably have done what she did. For despite the risk of execution by hanging and about 16 months of a much-ballyhooed government scheme to assist families with daughters, in some hamlets of ... Tamil Nadu, murdering girls is still sometimes believed to be a wiser course than raising them. "A daughter is always liabilities. How can I bring up a second?" Lakshmi, 28, answered firmly when asked by a visitor how she could have taken her own child's life eight years ago. "Instead of her suffering the way I do, I thought it was better to get rid of her." (All quotes from Dahlburg, "Where killing baby girls 'is no big sin'.")

A study of Tamil Nadu by the Community Service Guild of Madras similarly found that "female infanticide is rampant" in the state, though only among Hindu families (rather than Moslem or Christian) families.

[INTERESTING! Only among HINDU families... Dear nosuperstition: repeat that 666 times!]

"Of the 1,250 families covered by the study, 740 had only one girl child and 249 agreed directly that they had done away with the unwanted girl child. More than 213 of the families had more than one male child whereas half the respondents had only one daughter." (Malavika Karlekar, "The girl child in India: does she have any rights?," Canadian Woman Studies, March 1995.)

The bias against females in India is related to the fact that "Sons are called upon to provide the income; they are the ones who do most of the work in the fields. In this way sons are looked to as a type of insurance. With this perspective, it becomes clearer that the high value given to males decreases the value given to females." (Marina Porras, "Female Infanticide and Foeticide".) The problem is also intimately tied to the institution of dowry, in which the family of a prospective bride must pay enormous sums of money to the family in which the woman will live after marriage. Though formally outlawed, the institution is still pervasive. "The combination of dowry and wedding expenses usually add up to more than a million rupees ([US] $35,000). In India the average civil servant earns about 100,000 rupees ($3,500) a year. Given these figures combined with the low status of women, it seems not so illogical that the poorer Indian families would want only male children." (Porras, "Female Infanticide and Foeticide".) Murders of women whose families are deemed to have paid insufficient dowry have become increasingly common, and receive separate case-study treatment on this site.

India is also the heartland of sex-selective abortion. Amniocentesis was introduced in 1974 "to ascertain birth defects in a sample population," but "was quickly appropriated by medical entrepreneurs. A spate of sex-selective abortions followed." (Karlekar, "The girl child in India.") Karlekar points out that "those women who undergo sex determination tests and abort on knowing that the foetus is female are actively taking a decision against equality and the right to life for girls. In many cases, of course, the women are not independent agents but merely victims of a dominant family ideology based on preference for male children."

Dahlburg notes that "In Jaipur, capital of the western state of Rajasthan, prenatal sex determination tests result in an estimated 3,500 abortions of female fetuses annually," according to a medical-college study. (Dahlburg, "Where killing baby girls 'is no big sin'.") Most strikingly, according to UNICEF, "A report from Bombay in 1984 on abortions after prenatal sex determination stated that 7,999 out of 8,000 of the aborted fetuses were females. Sex determination has become a lucrative business." (Zeng Yi et al., "Causes and Implications of the Recent Increase in the Reported Sex Ratio at Birth in China," Population and Development Review, 19: 2 [June 1993], p. 297.)

Deficits in nutrition and health-care also overwhelmingly target female children. Karlekar cites research

indicat[ing] a definite bias in feeding boys milk and milk products and eggs ... In Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh [states], it is usual for girls and women to eat less than men and boys and to have their meal after the men and boys had finished eating. Greater mobility outside the home provides boys with the opportunity to eat sweets and fruit from saved-up pocket money or from money given to buy articles for food consumption. In case of illness, it is usually boys who have preference in health care. ... More is spent on clothing for boys than for girls[,] which also affects morbidity. (Karlekar, "The girl child in India.")

Sunita Kishor reports "another disturbing finding," namely "that, despite the increased ability to command essential food and medical resources associated with development, female children [in India] do not improve their survival chances relative to male children with gains in development. Relatively high levels of agricultural development decrease the life chances of females while leaving males' life chances unaffected; [/size]

[Wait a minute! Relatively high levels of agricultural development DECREASE life chances? Wow!!]

Urbanization increases the life chances of males more than females. ... Clearly, gender-based discrimination in the allocation of resources persists and even increases, even when availability of resources is not a constraint." (Kishor, "'May God Give Sons to All': Gender and Child Mortality in India," American Sociological Review, 58: 2 [April 1993], p. 262.)

Indian state governments have sometimes taken measures to diminish the slaughter of infant girls and abortions of female fetuses. "The leaders of Tamil Nadu are holding out a tempting carrot to couples in the state with one or two daughters and no sons: if one parent undergoes sterilization, the government will give the family [U.S.] \\$160 in aid per child. The money will be paid in instalments as the girl goes through school. She will also get a small gold ring and on her 20th birthday, a lump sum of $650 to serve as her dowry or defray the expenses of higher education. Four thousand families enrolled in the first year," with 6,000 to 8,000 expected to join annually (as of 1994) (Dahlburg, "Where killing baby girls 'is no big sin'.") Such programs have, however, barely begun to address the scale of the catastrophe.

===========================================

Kill the girls and venerate the cows (the mama of the universe)?

No grazie

=========================================

But you can go on believing this.

http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1996_10/msg00212.html

4. Logical higher explanantion for how 'useful' became 'holy' cow -
The one quality that distinguishes humans from other animals is that of
'gratitude'. It is Hindu gratitude that takes a 'dumb' cow to a higher
plane of thought. After our birth, our mother nourished us with her
milk when we were totally helpless, for a year or two. Thereafter it is
cow's milk that nourishes us for the rest of our lives. The Hindu
respects the mother as the lifegiver, hence the term
Matru devo bhava
meaning 'see God in your mother'. He then extends the same logic and
the same gratitude furher to a cow who nourished him with her milk too.
In every civilized society mother is respected and venerated, she is
never cosidered as object of 'consumption'. The Hindu extends the same
logic, same courtsey to a cow. Thus this extension of gratitude makes
cows 'holy'.

Really logical, really high!

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:43 am
by Nosuperstition
Ioshkafutz wrote:For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ, have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(Galatians 3:26-28; cf. Colossians 3:10-11)

These fundamental Christian principles were the leaven which slowly and steadily spread throughout the whole empire. They curtailed the abuses of slavery and finally destroyed it (Vincent, "Philippians and Philemon", Cambridge, 1902, 167).


Lord_Kubera wrote: The very reason the masses of humanity have been able to understand the high ideals of the French revolution like 'Liberty, Fraternity, Equality' is because the masses have been guided by the more cultured and noble Aristocrats
.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... ht=#715016

Very much similiar to Hindus copying the good behaviour of their elite castes to the extent possible.

Mably’s writings contain an explicit and near slavish admiration of Plato combined with an enlightened Stoic belief in natural human equality. As an elitist, Plato never would have argued the existence of natural human equality. So, Mably, presents us with a paradox.

Mably developed a notion of equality that went beyond the Stoic concept that all men possess a divine spark, and beyond the liberal belief in equality before the law. He even rejected the idea that important differences in people could arise through such influences as climate and geography, an idea which had gained amazing popularity in France since the early part of the 18th century. He granted that unhappy experiences in society might brutalize some, but their fundamental equality remained untouched. What he meant by this is not exactly clear but most often he seemed to be insisting on the equality of needs.


http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/lecture19a.html

Stoics are followers of ancient sect of Greek Philosophers who believed in virtue as the ultimate good and control of ones desires and passions according to the Oxford dictionary.They are pagans and are very much admired in Reformation era France.Before that when the Catholic Church had power,no Revolution was successful.The reason is that the Bible itself said that God created the rich and the poor.Every day in Roman society many slaves were freed by Stoics.The film 300 hundred potrays a very rosy picture of the Spartans but that society was terribly brutual towards its slaves.As their society was highly elitist, it got destroyed due to rebellion.Rebellions were also quite common in ancient Greek cities. Once again I repeat Stoics are followers of ancient sect of Greek Philosophers who believed in virtue as the ultimate good and control of ones desires and passions according to the Oxford dictionary.They are pagans and are very much admired in Reformation era France.Before that when the Catholic Church had power,no Revolution was successful.

Snakes keep taking a toll of 50,000 lives annually because they are considered sacred.


The very snakes eat up a lot many rats in fields which would have otherwise deprived many human beings of much needed grain.Only Cobras are worshipped.

paamuku paalu posi penchinavu kada Oh my God, what you have done is feeding a serpent that bites you back.

chinna paamunaina pedda karrato kottaali Even if the serpent is a small one,it must be killed with a big stick.It is another matter that there is another saying goti to poyedaaniki goddalendukuWhy do we need a axe when you can get the work done with nails.

The snake has poison in its head,the scorpion in its tail, but an evil human being has poison through out his body.So on goes a metre poem in Telugu.

So serpents are not so highly regarded as you would like to potray.After all the serpent is to be hated because of its poison and not due to God's curse on serpents(my personal view).

And female infanticide is no different than abortion.Both are the same.To be more precise,infanticide is better than/preferable to advanced stage abortions as you don't suck the brain matter with a vaccum machine after piercing the nervous system developed fetuses head.

Illustrating the folly of such cow worship and the caste system is this: when an untouchable had used a well it had to be sanctified by having sacred cow manure thrown into it!


Cow manure is said to contain medicinal qualities in Ayurveda.I have read an article written by Westerner where it was mentioned that when Arabs occupied Sindh,they dressed like Hindus,had hair cut similiar to them and used Ayurvedic medicines when their own Unani medicine did not cure a disease.

Muslims slaughter about 1.38/13.8 million cows/oxen illegally every year according to an article I read in the thread Hinduism in this very forum. Pray if 14% of population consume such numbers what should be the rate of reprodustion of cows( not livestock) and what would be the environmental costs if 70+ populace consumes beef.

Because of consumption of beef muslims have a lesser infant mortality ratio of the order of approx 52 infant deaths/1000 babies born as compared with approx 63 for hindus.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... c&start=15

Domesticated animals had already been imported from Asia between 7500 BC and 4000 BC. Interestingly, the domestication of the pig in the Sahara and ancient Egypt has been cited as a likely primary contributor to the desertification of the Sahara.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... 4&start=15

There are many people Hindus included who eat beef as Hinduism respects plurality and as it is not an institutionised /organised religion as stated by missionary agents and careperson.cc/Idesigner also said that he knew many Hindus in the West who eat beef etc and yet give food to their ancestors wishing them good.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewt ... ht=#274329

I will respond to the other posts later.

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:04 am
by Nosuperstition
Cobras,Peacocks and Eagles living together in harmony in the presence of Shiva and Vishnu symbolises harmonious life between things/beings of contradictory nature in the presence of divine beings.Rishis of Hinduism are also worshipped and their presence in Naimisha forest during Kali Yug caused lions etc to live in harmony with deer,rhinos etc.

There also exists a story where there is friendship between a bird king and another king.The son of bird king and the king were also friends.One day the son of the king killed his compatriate bird prince.In a fit of anger the bird king also killed the son of the king.Later both of them came to terms with other that whatever went wrong should not have happened.And they also decided to part ways(may be temporarily I do not remember) so that overwhelming vengeance might not harm one another.

Ron and Janice Hembre also say that the eternal seperation might be more true than eternal hell fire.See religions are competing just like Emperor Ashoka wanted.

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:49 pm
by Nosuperstition
Ioshkafutz wrote:"It seems on the whole fair to regard negroes as on the average inferior to white men, although for work in the tropics they are indispensable, so that their extermination (apart from questions of humanity) would be highly undesirable."

— Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals (1929)


You also quoted the same in the old forum.

"In extreme cases there can be little doubt of the superiority of one race to another.... It seems on the whole fair to regard negroes as on the average inferior to white men, although for work in the tropics they are indispensable, so that their extermination (apart from questions of humanity) would be highly undesirable."

— Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals (1929)

I Like the "apart from questions of Humanity" part.

An error of youth undoubtedly. He didn't want to put the dark folks in the blender because they were good for hard labor in the tropics.


http://www.forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=16844&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Here was his other side given in the same thread.

readrussellandlearn wrote:I would just like to defend Russell if I may. Russell fought an inner struggle for most of his life. He was deeply influenced in his formative years and fought to conquer the false values he had been taught as true such as religion and white colonial superiority. In many of his writings he is brave enough to admit his past mistakes. As he aged his intellect matured to the point where he left mathematics behind somewhat and devoted all his time to the philosophy of religion, ethics, metaphysics, epistemolgy and logic. He matured to the point where was his love for all of humanity regardless of colour, race or creed led to his being jailed for his anti-war activities during the US fight in Vietnam. No doubt a fight he would never have fought in his early life.
In his autobiography he eloquently speaks of the end result of this personal evolution:

"With equal passion I have sought knowedge. I have wished to understand the hearts of men. I have wished to know why the stars shine. And I have tried to apprehend the Pythagorean power by which number holds sway above the flux. A little of this but not much I have achieved. Love and knowledge, so far as they were possible, led upward toward the heavens. But always pity brought me back to earth. Echoes of cries of pain brought me back to earth. Children in famine, victims tortured by oppressors, helpless old people a hated burden to their sons, and the whole world of loneliness, poverty and pain make a mockery of what human life should be. I long to alleviate evil, but I cannot and I too suffer".

Russell is fantastic example to all muslim actually, he fought against his early indocrination and won. His reason and rational argument eventually defeated his inner demons.


http://www.forum.faithfreedom.org/viewt ... ht=#362457

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:57 am
by Nosuperstition
Ioshkafutz wrote:A study of Tamil Nadu by the Community Service Guild of Madras similarly found that "female infanticide is rampant" in the state, though only among Hindu families (rather than Moslem or Christian) families.


Yohan says that sex ratio in the state of Kerala is the best across all of India as the % of minorities i.e Muslims and Christians there is almost 50%.However he also says that caste system was worse in Kerala than in many other parts of India and Vivekananda called it a madhouse of castes as it was the area that was least subject to rule by non-subcontinental religions and hence would stand out as a glaring example of what would have been the case of caste madness had India not been influenced by the Abrahamic faiths.So everything positive is due to Abrahamic faiths while everything negative is due to Hinduism.While the fact of matter is sex ratio is far worse off in North India ruled by Muslims for 700 years while it was much better off in South India until recently as it was ruled by muslims for only around 200 years.So it can also be argued that male chauvinism only increases with increase of Abrahamic influence and female infanticide is directly correlated to rule by Abrahamic faiths.

Anyway female infanticide is no worse than abortion that takes place as a process of selection of future offspring that deserves the finite natural resources per theory of Malthus according to which population increases in geometric proportions while food production increases only in arithmetic proportions.

And yes while living in a majority Hindu society,the minorities will like to distinguish themselves as morally superior and for that reason they wilfully refrain from practices like female infanticide.But once the so called scale for evil in the form of majority practices is gone with the majority itself becoming a minority,then new forms of evil will sprout in the then majority,the present minority religions.

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:52 pm
by ronyvo
RichardTheLionheart wrote:I agree, people fight over lots of things. If religion didn't exist there would still be money, territory, race or political ideology etc...
The problem with religion is the absolute belief of divine sanction and heavenly reward for waging warfare.

It adds almost infinite motivation for conflict.


Fundamentaly, I agree.
But, One must defrentiate between religions. First of all, I do not consider Islam is a religion. OR, may be if one considers satanic worshipping is religion. I agree with Richard, people cannot live together in harmony. They will find a reason, whether good reason or not.

Christianity is the only religion with LOVE is the most important element. People, not the teachings of Christ, who are distorting the Christian religion.

Re: Religion - the root of all evil???

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:20 pm
by Nosuperstition
Now it is said by someone in this very forum that there are many to the South of the U. S. A who would be glad to see it disintegrate. Now is that a manifestation of love?