People who came up with hinduism vedas

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iffo
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People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by iffo »

Can hindu members comment onnhistory of vedas . Are Aryans the originator of vedas and basically the founders of hiduism dates back 2500 BC ? Aryans are the people came from centrral Asia with fair skin.

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

One of the things I keep telling people but specially Muslims have a hard time to process, is that ALL religious books are the PRODUCTS of religious belief and not the source.

This is also true for Hinduism, arguably the oldest religion in the world. Long before the Vedas there were Hindus, and many various strands of religious tradition slowly merged. This is one of the interesting features of Hinduism: it was always ready to accommodate and integrate religious ideas, and this is why Christianity make poor progress in India ... Hindus readily accepted most of Christian teachings except of course any claim of a single, exclusive deity. When Muslims thrust this on India is a rather more forceful fashion, the traditional religious tolerance of many Hindus took a serious knock, and the end result was the rather sad division of the land and the creation of Pakistan.

The Vedas are part of a process that you find in all religions, and their emergence have similar reason: it tends to be all about external challenges from other religious traditions. When there are pressures from other religions then texts eventually get written. In the case of Hinduism, this pressure came from Buddhism. Hindus used the texts to harmonise and bring together traditions from the whole of India and even to a degree accommodated Buddhism, and the written word was crucial to this effort. It was quite successful, and t this day you can find Hindu and Buddhist shrines combined in one complex, something never achieved in the West, or even attempted,.


What is interesting though that the Vedic codification started mostly in what today is Iran, and mainly to begin with as a way to bring Buddhism to India. Then the process took of a life of its own, and became quintessentially Hindu, and a response Buddhism.

But the texts way surpassed its original purpose and in time became a library of Hindu thought and theology. The allowed the emergence of systematic religious teaching. This is also a characteristic of many religious texts: they start out as a something written for quite a narrow purpose but later become works of reference.

In fact, it was largely due to the Vedas that Hinduism could spread through SE Asia. But there it had a different history, In India in mostly dominated over Buddhism, in Sri Lanka and most of SE Asia Buddhism was more prominent, with the exception of what today is Indonesia.

The arrival of Islam changed things again. In India it set neighbour against neighbour, in Iran and Afghanistan it all but wiped out former religious traditions. The same is true for Indonesia, where there is only one tiny Island left (Bali) where you can still find a lively Hindu community, most of whom are the descendants of refugees from Muslim persecution.
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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:
In fact, it was largely due to the Vedas that Hinduism could spread through SE Asia. But there it had a different history, In India in mostly dominated over Buddhism, in Sri Lanka and most of SE Asia Buddhism was more prominent, with the exception of what today is Indonesia.

The arrival of Islam changed things again. In India it set neighbour against neighbour, in Iran and Afghanistan it all but wiped out former religious traditions. The same is true for Indonesia, where there is only one tiny Island left (Bali) where you can still find a lively Hindu community, most of whom are the descendants of refugees from Muslim persecution.
Don't be a fool! Hinduism in Bali is not the same as Hinduism in India.

Christianity failed to penetrate India because they practiced apartheid and racism. Indians cannot become bishops, largely because f*cking European priests were not prepared to serve under them. Such racism limited the spread of Christianity in India.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

A year older and still no manners. Hinduism was never a unified body. The Hindus in Bali do have a distinct version of Hinduism, with some differences. However, if you travel through India, you also get many variations.


There are many reasons why Christianity failed to have a major impact on India, one being the experience with Islam.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:A year older and still no manners. Hinduism was never a unified body. The Hindus in Bali do have a distinct version of Hinduism, with some differences. However, if you travel through India, you also get many variations.


There are many reasons why Christianity failed to have a major impact on India, one being the experience with Islam.
Indians are not Latinos (Latin America) who are forced to convert Christianity by European Christians.
Unfortunately, Islam was not there before Christians attacked their countries. Otherwise, Latin Muslims will fight it all out. :horseride: :swordfight:
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

SAM, Christianity in India was virtually non-existent until the arrival of the Portuguese in the 16th century. There were small Christian communities before then, mostly due to missionary efforts by individuals, some real, some perhaps more legendary.

Islam had arrived some 800 years before that, at first by traders, and not long after by invasion. Christianity was suppressed with the arrival of the Mughals, and it because of them that Christianity did not find roots in India as much as it could have.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:SAM, Christianity in India was virtually non-existent until the arrival of the Portuguese in the 16th century. There were small Christian communities before then, mostly due to missionary efforts by individuals, some real, some perhaps more legendary.

Islam had arrived some 800 years before that, at first by traders, and not long after by invasion. Christianity was suppressed with the arrival of the Mughals, and it because of them that Christianity did not find roots in India as much as it could have.
You talk rubbish! Read the History of Goa Inquisition on Portuguese atrocities and cruelty.

In 1545, Catholic missionaries, St. Francis Xavier asks King John III of Portugal for a Catholic Inquisition to be established in Goa, in India. The Portuguese colonial administration enacted anti-Hindu laws designed to encourage conversions to Christianity. The public worship of Hindu gods was made unlawful. Hindus were forced to assemble in churches to listen to Christian preaching and supposed refutations of their satanic religion. Prohibitions against the observance of Hindu rites and Sephardic Jews living in Goa, who had fled the Spanish Inquisition, were also persecuted. The Inquisition also persecuted local Muslims, Jews, non-Catholic and Syrian Christians. A campaign of destroying Hindu temples, Synagogues and a Mosques. Hindu rituals were banned including marriages and cremation. Everyone above 15 years of age was compelled to listen to Christian preaching, on pain of punishment. Non-Christian holy books were destroyed. And so on..
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

You do agree that Islam was present in India before Christianity then.

While I make no excuses for the behaviour of the Portuguese in Goa, their actions seem trivial to the bloodshed lasting centuries in India in the name of Islam.

Goa is a small place, and lslam attacked almost all of India.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:You do agree that Islam was present in India before Christianity then.

While I make no excuses for the behaviour of the Portuguese in Goa, their actions seem trivial to the bloodshed lasting centuries in India in the name of Islam.

Goa is a small place, and lslam attacked almost all of India.
Why Christians are so envious of the spread of Islam in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

envious? We are horrified.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:envious? We are horrified.
The actions of the Crusades and the Inquisition were more horrific and terrible acts in the name of Jesus that Roman Catholics had committed to the inhabitants of Native Americans, Africans, Indians and Europeans.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

250 million people dead because of Mohammed.



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Nosuperstition
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by Nosuperstition »

iffo wrote:Can hindu members comment onnhistory of vedas . Are Aryans the originator of vedas and basically the founders of hiduism dates back 2500 BC ? Aryans are the people came from centrral Asia with fair skin.
Yohan gave some quotes in the old forum.One such prominent one which I remember well is "Indra,the thunderer bestowed land on his white friends and drove away the noseless dark skinned ones whom he hated".Now if one interprets Indra,king of Gods as assumed to have incarnated as human amongst his worshippers in the form of God-King,then this sentence makes sense.Else to assume that the Aryans were white is a pure conjecture arrived at based on the concept of separation of facts and fiction used while distilling history.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by Nosuperstition »

Now even Charles Darwin said that the Africans were saved from extinction for there is no alternative other than them for work in tropics.So the same would have happened to the dark skinned ones in India if ever there was an Aryan invasion in India,even if they,the Aryans did not like dark skin.When the Muslim Turks invaded sub-continent,they too remarked disparagingly that most Hindus are black.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:There are many reasons why Christianity failed to have a major impact on India, one being the experience with Islam.
When the Brits tried to force Christianity in India by outlawing Hindu customs and forcibly introducing the Bible in schools,there was an insurrection in the form of the rebellion of 1857.However by then the Europeans had developed even better functioning guns than the guns which were in the hands of the native sepoys of the East India Company.They safeguarded that technology from falling in to the hands of people of their colonies.So they eventually won over in India by crushing the 1857 rebellion.However they decided that it was safe atleast for time being to allow freedom of religion to the subcontinentals.

Now winning due to better guns works by the same way in which a better fed and a better tutored persons excel in studies in academic institutions.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by Nosuperstition »

Are Aryans the originator of vedas and basically the founders of hiduism dates back 2500 BC ? Aryans are the people came from centrral Asia with fair skin.
The style of Sanskrit one finds in the Rig Veda,the oldest of the Vedas where Indra smote the blacks is said to be different from the three other Vedas,the Yajus/Yajur Veda,the Sama Veda and the Atharvana Veda.So some opine that Rig Veda is authored outside of the subcontinent without the influence of phonetics native to the subcontinent.Founders or not also depends on the criterion used to define Hinduism.If idol worship,nature worship etc are used to define Hinduism,it can date much prior to the period of 2500 B.C right back to the people of the Indus Valley civilisation.If Sanskrit use is taken as the criterion,then of course it only begins with the Aryans.

Indra supposedly gave land,sunshine,rain etc to his white friends per the Rig Veda.But then , word Indra simply means lord and nothing else per what I understand from complex words formed with this word.Some of the examples are Mahi+indra or Mahendra or lord of the Earth,Deva+Indra or Devendra meaning lord of the gods,Raja+Indra or Rajendra or lord of kings,Sura+Indra or Surendra meaning lord of gods,Nara+Indra or Narendra meaning lord of human beings etc.Yet this lord is shown to be a lesser lord when compared with Krishna,dark skinned incarnation of Vishnu as well as with Siva in the Puranas as well as in the Itihaasaas of the Ramayana and the Mahabharatha and that is what vast majority of Hindus believe as of today per their oral traditions.In the Vedas,word Siva itself supposedly does not appear and Vishnu is supposedly shown as a smaller god compared with Indra.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:250 million people dead because of Mohammed.



These video will not whitewashing the Roman Catholic Church, the history of the Inquisition, Colonisation, Slavery, Apartheid, Racism and Christian Persecution of Witches, Witchcraft, Heathens,, Heretics, Jews, Philosophers, Freethinkers, Heretics, Blasphemers, Apostates, Humanists, Pantheists, Unitarians, Deists, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, Genocide of Natives Americans/Africans and so on..The Western Christianity view that non-Europeans were inferior creatures. Anti-Semitism, hatred of the Jews had been fostered by the Church for centuries.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

It does not attempt to justify anything, but it puts a perspective. When it comes to blood on their hands, Muslims are far ahead of anyone else. by a very long way.

What is worse, Islam is the only religion that actually demands hatred from their followers.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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manfred
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by manfred »

This topic is about vedas.
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SAM
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Re: People who came up with hinduism vedas

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:This topic is about vedas.
What iffo asked about the vedas had nothing to do with Islam. Why do you involve Islam?
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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