Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Does God exist? Is Allah God? Creation vs. evolution.
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manfred
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by manfred »

Nosuperstition wrote:
manfred wrote:Heaven and golden houses is nonsense, as are most imaginative descriptions of heaven.If God is that which completes you utterly and fulfils all desire, not by providing it at face value, but by giving something sublimely better instead, "golden house" will seem like a dung heap.

And the idea that God bribes people with possession (or sex) really is stupid.
I haven't had direct sex with any other person on the planet up until now,so I cannot say,but a muslim forum member at bismiaallahuma discussion forum where all the posts presently stand deleted or unavailable said once that sex is beautiful you moron.
NS, first of all please have manners when you post.

This is perhaps not one of your highlights, but let me respond nonetheless.

I did not say anything at all about sex, but about the idea that God bribes people with things, be it possessions or even sex, as you find in Islam.

Your response was that someone neither of us us knows said "sex is beautiful", so, even though you had no experience of it, he must be right and I am a "moron"... even though I made no comment about the "beauty" of sex at all.

So, just because this guy, whoever he is, said this, it must be right? And you do not have your own views at all?

Sex comes in all kinds of forms.... It could be about two people who truly love each other and are committed to each other, having sex. Sure, there is beauty in that, even if both of them do not match what people will see as "body-perfect".

There is, on the other end of the scale, a bunch of middle aged men drugging and repeatedly raping a young girl, until she needs surgery to repair her vagina and rectum. There really are few things uglier than that.

Both is sex. So is sex always "beautiful"? Or does it depend on something else to make it beautiful?

Finally, a comment about "golden houses".... who builds "golden houses? You find that are people like kings, emperors, tycoons, tyrants and dictators. In fact anyone who feels the need to tell others he or she is better than them.

Are you like that? Then remember that ALL you have is only for rent.... you have it for a while, and when you die it will be shared by others or simply thrown away. That includes any "golden house"....

Perhaps you want a "golden house" in the afterlife to show off to other people? If you have a need to show off, you are not ready for an invitation God makes for all equally. If you can sit at a table as just one of a great many, and if you don't care what the others have or are, then you are ready.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

iffo
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by iffo »

NS you said you never had sex with anyone. Was it because of religion, as some think it makes you more pious in some religions not to have sex ... or just personal choice.
I understand you are hindu, not sure if there is any such thing in hinduism that forbids sex to be more close to god.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by Nosuperstition »

iffo wrote:NS you said you never had sex with anyone. Was it because of religion, as some think it makes you more pious in some religions not to have sex ... or just personal choice.
I understand you are hindu, not sure if there is any such thing in hinduism that forbids sex to be more close to god.
Sure it exists in Hinduism in that absence from sex for long long periods results in great pious merit being bestowed upon as it supposedly had been in the case of Hindu sages.But my abstinence has got something more to do with my personal reasons and not the religious ones.And yes I did abstain from even feelings of sex between July 1999 and September 2000 for more than one year when I was a completely believing fool.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Fernando
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by Fernando »

Well, the RC Church requires its clergy to be celibate. I get confused, though, about the interchangeabilty of the terms "chaste" and "celibate". I understand celibate to mean avoiding marriage. This RC requirement, I have read, is because the Church didn't want its clergy's wives to inherit anything that might be deemed Church property from their clerical husbands. Housekeepers - no problem. (Cue Bishop Brennan :wink2: )
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Nosuperstition
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Fernando wrote:Well, the RC Church requires its clergy to be celibate. I get confused, though, about the interchangeabilty of the terms "chaste" and "celibate". I understand celibate to mean avoiding marriage. This RC requirement, I have read, is because the Church didn't want its clergy's wives to inherit anything that might be deemed Church property from their clerical husbands. Housekeepers - no problem. (Cue Bishop Brennan :wink2: )
It is said that one has to put on the mask of a good man at the forefront to do dirty things hiding behind him.So the RC clergy's celibacy/chastity gives them a supposed higher moral ground in the society which then helps the ruling classes control the masses by putting them,the clergymen in a position to preach to the ordinary folks.The veggism of Hindu priestly class also serves the same purpose.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by manfred »

No clergyman is "morally superior" to others because of celibacy, that is neither the case in reality no is it teaching of the Church.

A priest will be asked to be available at any hours and will be moved from place to place, as needs arise. In addition, there have been many times in history when clergy was persecuted or even killed. For reason a canon law was formed to ask they should not be married or have families.

There was a period in early Christianity when priest could marry, but priestly duties and frequent arrests by Roman officials soon suggested this was unfair to families, and it was suggested that a priest should follow the example of Christ and remain single.

To this day there are some priests who are in fact married, mostly people who are converts.

In the Orthodox Church, there is no celibacy rule, except that a bishop is invariably a monk.

And while it is true that there are some people who join the priesthood to get opportunity for sexual abuse, as they do become football coaches, scout leaders or teachers, it is unfair in the extreme to see all of them as such people. Or are all teacher groping little boys and girls too?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

frankie
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by frankie »

Fernando wrote:Well, the RC Church requires its clergy to be celibate. I get confused, though, about the interchangeabilty of the terms "chaste" and "celibate". I understand celibate to mean avoiding marriage. This RC requirement, I have read, is because the Church didn't want its clergy's wives to inherit anything that might be deemed Church property from their clerical husbands. Housekeepers - no problem. (Cue Bishop Brennan :wink2: )

Fernando

It was permissible at one time for R.C.priests to be married, but it was found the priest could not perform his priestly duties without it interfering with being a husband and father, in effect,his loyalties were torn, which is unfair to both a wife and children and the church in which he is supposed to serve 24 hours a day.

It was considered better for all concerned for R.C.priests to remain celebate,and them to give their lives for the church and its congregation only.

Nosuperstition
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by Nosuperstition »

It was permissible at one time for R.C.priests to be married, but it was found the priest could not perform his priestly duties without it interfering with being a husband and father, in effect,his loyalties were torn, which is unfair to both a wife and children and the church in which he is supposed to serve 24 hours a day.

It was considered better for all concerned for R.C.priests to remain celebate,and them to give their lives for the church and its congregation only.
Hi frankie,even if the work of a priest enjoins quite a lot of leisure time unlike other professions,you cannot expect them to work without sleep 24/7.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by manfred »

A priest does not work 24 hours a day, but he must be available at any time. Originally the rule of celibacy was introduced to avoid widows and orphans should a priest get killed, which was not unusual even after Constantine, as the "old religion" did not simply fade away from one day to the next.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Nosuperstition
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by Nosuperstition »

manfred wrote:A priest does not work 24 hours a day, but he must be available at any time. Originally the rule of celibacy was introduced to avoid widows and orphans should a priest get killed, which was not unusual even after Constantine, as the "old religion" did not simply fade away from one day to the next.
They will only get killed if they take sides in battles or wars,siding with one lord and opposing another.If they remain quiet as had happened during WW II,they will definitely be spared.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

glitch
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by glitch »

manfred wrote:That depends which Christians you are asking. All Christians would say that there is more to life than this this life and the real purpose of all men is to be "re-united" with God. "Heaven" is imagined by people in a lot of ways, from a sexual pleasure dome to a an analogy for meeting the divine. If you do not have a a belief in heaven then the images that people use to describe it tell you a lot about them.
Actually Manfred, the new Testament actually says there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth to be clear and there is some indication that the there is a heaven.

Mr. Enelow

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manfred
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Re: Does Christanity tell that after death ?

Post by manfred »

Hi, it all depends how you decide to understand these things from the NT, and there considerable variations within Christianity. My personal take is that "heaven" is a concept that does not belong to our world, so all we say about it will by necessity short of reality. Our language is geared up describe our world. We can, with effort extend this somewhat, but it will never be quite right....

Even with things we do not commonly experience language only delivers a flavour of what it describes. "Electron" is a word we often use... but how many of us really, truly know what it is? "Cheese sandwich" will raise associations with most people, not all identical, but at least most of us can agree what it is.... Things get harder with things outside our experience, and almost impossible for things nobody has experienced.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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