manfred wrote:I wonder if you would ever say to your wife... "hey, let's make a baby. She can wash the dishes when she is old enough.I know, if it's a boy he can do the garden and wash the car."
Most likely not.... You love your kids, just because they are your kids, right? OK sometimes you get mad at them when they do something stupid or annoying, but no matter what, you always love them, and you simply would never ever do anything to hurt them.
manfred wrote:It is not therefore somewhat odd, this idea that God makes man purely so that he has someone to worship him? I thought Allah has no needs....
manfred wrote:Some suffering, sure is the result of people doing bad things or stupid things. But others? Dengue fever, for example? A baby born deformed?
manfred wrote:As a Muslim you believe Allah is just and Allah is forgiving. You also know about suffering. So far you say the source of happiness is found in serving Allah. However even that does not protect you from suffering.... Or are all Muslims always 100% happy and immune to suffering?
manfred wrote:BTW about all parents wanting their kids to be useful, you should meet some of the younger parents over here... most of them think everybody and everything revolves around their kids and everybody should be useful TO THEM...
There are some ways in which society is healthier in Asia... and others in which it is worse.
younger/not wise/not ideal parents can't be used as standard.
3:92 logic explained, suffering/struggle is needed for higher happiness, so the goal was never so Muslims to avoid suffering, but to avoid confusion about the reason why God created suffering.
manfred wrote:Now you really confuse me... 3:92 seems to me a warning against being a hoarder or money or being greedy or mean. It does not really have suffering as a theme. Unless you mean, if you give something to the poor that is suffering?
manfred wrote:"God creates suffering so that Muslims (only?) avoid confusion why God created suffering?"
manfred wrote:As to the other point suffering is needed for higher happiness, again, could you explain that too?
manfred wrote:And while I am writing let me give you a simple thought on this:
As we move through life, many things happen to us. We class some of these things as "good" and some as "bad". In reality events are just events. We want love, perhaps money, and we don't want to be sick or poor and hungry.
It is our DESIRE to have good things to happen and our FEAR of bad things, that give events a "value". Without our desire they would simply be things that happen.
If we had no desires, therefore, we could accept all things equally, see good and bad (or neither) in all things, and in the end nothing could really make us suffer.
manfred wrote:I wonder if you would ever say to your wife... "hey, let's make a baby. She can wash the dishes when she is old enough.I know, if it's a boy he can do the garden and wash the car."
Most likely not.... You love your kids, just because they are your kids, right? OK sometimes you get mad at them when they do something stupid or annoying, but no matter what, you always love them, and you simply would never ever do anything to hurt them.
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
sum wrote:Suffering is not created by any god but simply a product of mankind`s own making and natural disasters.
idesigner1 wrote:It's the most absurd logic when God wants to test believer about the faith. He is god, he knows everything still he wants to torture the believer to prove his pointSome sadistic son of bitch!
Well, I was going to ask if many coincidences are needed to support life, however many more must be needed before God can exist?Garudaman wrote:sum wrote:Suffering is not created by any god but simply a product of mankind`s own making and natural disasters.
that's only true if God not exist, but based on there are too many coincidence which required in order to form/support life viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13780&start=20#p189076 , God is exist.
Garudaman wrote:idesigner1 wrote:It's the most absurd logic when God wants to test believer about the faith. He is god, he knows everything still he wants to torture the believer to prove his pointSome sadistic son of bitch!
as TS article described, God do it not because God want to know, but because human want to give/prove themselves (to God).
idesigner1 wrote:Then why misleading title why God CREATES suffering? It should say Humans invite suffering to prove his belief!!
idesigner1 wrote:It also says but but but humans shouldn't seek suffering.
Garudaman wrote:idesigner1 wrote:Then why misleading title why God CREATES suffering? It should say Humans invite suffering to prove his belief!!
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