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The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:14 pm
by Chiclets
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Re: off topic

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:35 pm
by Fernando
:hi: :lotpot:

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:39 pm
by manfred
Excellent! :bggrn: So what hat do you propose for atheists?

By the way, here is an interesting but entirely useless bit of info: the mitre of a bishop in the Roman Church (Catholic) and also in the Anglican tradition is based on the Egyptian pharaoh's "double crown":

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For the pharaoh it symbolised "Upper and Lower Egypt"

For a bishop it meant to symbolise his two-fold power: His "jurisdiction" of clergy and the people in his care, and his "authority" to administer the sacraments and to preach in his diocese, his double role as judge and as carer.

There is one little add-on you find on a bishop's mitre which was absent on pharaoh's crown: the "ribbon" hanging down at the back. This is a reminder for the bishop of his ordination (the anointment with oil) and the responsibility that means: it is a "tie" that ties his own salvation to how well he took care of his people.

In fact almost all religious clothing, at least in the Christian traditions, have symbolism and meaning. To us to day these items do often look silly, I grant you that, but they come from a time long ago.

Here is another example: the "vestments" a Roman priest wears are based on the "best" street clothes in ancient Rome, something you would an official or senator expect to wear. In Rome, these people also wore sashes in different ways to signify rank: this sash became the "stole", the broad ribbon a clergyman wears round the neck, similarly signifies rank, and is worn in three ways, depending on the wearer being a deacon, priest or bishop. (In ancient Rome they had many more "styles" to wear it, not just 3) A deacon wears it on one shoulder only, a priest crossed over his chest and a bishop hanging straight down. To confuse things, when a priest acts as a step-in for the bishop, such as in a baptism, a wedding or a funeral, he also wears it like a bishop, hanging straight down, but not when he acts on his own authority, for example when saying mass. Colours in Rome, as they are today, were partly a matter of taste or of season. In the church various colours represent seasons and the type of thing that is commemorated at the time.

In fact, in the Christian tradition all these "silly hats" and fancy dress have a great deal of symbolism. None of it is an essential part of the religion, it is merely ancient traditions being used.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:13 am
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
Well salwar kamiz is something Hindus plagarised from muslim women of North Western parts of the sub-continent.It suits more so in the mobility and carrying out day to day chores more so than the sarees and other such pure Hindu clothings.If Westerners show Hindu women dresses that suit them much more in their work,they will gladly opt for them.You see Hindus are that adaptable.And regarding turbans,mostly rural folk wear them.They are already disowned by many urban Hindus.


Ah well, since this has been flagged as off-topic...
I'm pleased to see that Hinde women are flexible about what they wear. I'm sure many (Western) Muslim women are too: a combination of tight scarf worn with equally tight jeans is quite common!
More interestingly, why do people wear turbans? As worn by Sikhs it seems extremely cumbersome although you see videos of India with rural people wearing a rough-and-ready version. It seems unsuitable for a hot country, something like a Chinese conical hat might be better. But then, hats are funny things - look at priests of all kinds, they must live in hat shops! Then there's the strange new habit of men wearing hats indoors - something unthinkable in my childhood, now perhaps introduced from the West Indies by "rappers". Strange these days, when people hardly ever walk about in the rain and a hood is far more practical.


viewtopic.php?f=38&t=17302&p=229929&hilit=adaptable#p229929

Some of the Sikh gurus fashioned themselves as warrior sages at a time when Islam was being shoved forcibly upon Hindus by the later Mughal rulers.Now it is common that Hindu sages( not seers )of the Puranas in general have long beards,moustaches and long hair.Some say that the virtuosity of their penance in the form of abstinence from sex for long long periods,chanting sacred mantras repeatedly etc will get deposited as power in the hair of their moustaches,beards and long hair.Hence they won't have hair cuts etc even if they are males.Even devout Hindus of medieval periods had long hair.It is a well known or well recorded fact that in order to force commoners to convert to Islam,Aurangzeb levied a burdensome hair tax on them.Sikhs too took the same concept of long hair to new extremes and every Sikh has long hair.If your hair is long,there must be a turban to cover it,in order to keep it clean.That explains their turbans.Nowadays Hindu males even in rural areas go for hair cuts,so no wonder they do not have such heavy turbans.And it is ethnic pride that makes them wear rough and ready versions and comfort is not in the equation they wear those turbans.

Hindu seers and priests on the other hand completely tonsure their heads to show their humility before gods etc just as had been the case with the priesthood of Pharonic Egypt.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:18 am
by Nosuperstition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na_b0YOaiKw

The potrayal of the child seer and an aged sage can be seen in the above video.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:50 am
by Nosuperstition
https://www.google.co.in/search?q=outer+coat+of+North+Indian+attire&biw=1093&bih=530&tbm=isch&imgil=zYlVp96iFeRSaM%253A%253BCq_dQnnv_pVRlM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.nihalfashions.com%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=zYlVp96iFeRSaM%253A%252CCq_dQnnv_pVRlM%252C_&usg=__KPQvUeHqK_QTOlPPMpD7GoNjWBw%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiantOXi6fPAhVR6mMKHYVMCCMQyjcIKA&ei=ZfblV9rXGNHUjwOFmaGYAg#imgrc=zYlVp96iFeRSaM%3A

As one can observe,a sleeveless outer coat is worn on the upper garment in some North Indian attires.That coat is also worn by the Afghani muslims. Shows that when other people lord over an indigenous population for extremely long periods of time such as 700 years,you would mimic their dresses.Even Hindu men are adaptable.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:43 pm
by Chiclets
manfred wrote:Excellent! :bggrn: So what hat do you propose for atheists?


Respect is earned and not given, as such no headgear, but wearing a colander looks funny enough.

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Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:59 pm
by Nosuperstition
My father told me in my childhood that having excess hair on the brain would consume a lot of food for that purpose itself and hence having short hair would make you smart.A 6 to 7th standard Brahmin classmate of mine named RamaKrishna who was intelligent always used to have short hair.Now is there any scientific truth in having short hair or is it just a misconception?For example Manmohan Singh,the Sikh who served as India's finance minister was an extremely intelligent person despite having long hair just like all Sikhs and those ancient Hindu sages had.I have also seen many of the female gender who are intelligent a lot despite having thick flowing hair.

The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:35 pm
by AlexmenCorn
The Spanish used to call them "Tudescos" when the Habsburgs ruled but that changed with the Borbons Kings to "Alemanes" taken from the french.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:56 pm
by Fernando
Nosuperstition wrote:My father told me in my childhood that having excess hair on the brain would consume a lot of food for that purpose itself and hence having short hair would make you smart.A 6 to 7th standard Brahmin classmate of mine named RamaKrishna who was intelligent always used to have short hair.Now is there any scientific truth in having short hair or is it just a misconception?For example Manmohan Singh,the Sikh who served as India's finance minister was an extremely intelligent person despite having long hair just like all Sikhs and those ancient Hindu sages had.I have also seen many of the female gender who are intelligent a lot despite having thick flowing hair.
So far as I know, that's complete rubbish: any drain on the body would be by growing hair. Short hairs have grwon just as much as long ones but the older hair has been cut off and thrown away. I've never seen it suggested that hair, once grown, sucks any more nutrient from the body - any grease is produced by the follicle, regardless of whether the hair is still all there or has been cut short.
Are naturally long-haired animals dimmer than similar naturally short-haired breeds?

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:45 pm
by manfred
This is, Fernando, a rather good example to demonstrate the important statistical rule that correlation does not imply causation. Because some guy had short hair and also was smart, we are told, having short hair makes people smart. Even if we made a list of thousands of people with short hair who are all very smart, we cannot deduce from such a thing that one causes the other.... Perhaps being smart makes people cut their hair more often for hygiene reasons. Then the causation would run the opposite way round he suggested. Also there may be a third factor in effect causing both, for example like this: in the middle ages, to get a decent education, you usually needed to join a monastery. And a rule in the a western monastery is to have your hair cut off in a tonsure.

We might as well suggest that thinking a lot makes your hair fall out, as you can find a lot of academics with a bald head.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:22 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:We might as well suggest that thinking a lot makes your hair fall out, as you can find a lot of academics with a bald head.
No, it's because they spend too much time indoors poring over their books, and their heads don't get enough sunshine to make hair grow! :library:

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:18 pm
by Nosuperstition
manfred wrote:This is, Fernando, a rather good example to demonstrate the important statistical rule that [b]correlation does not imply causation[/b]. Because some guy had short hair and also was smart, we are told, having short hair makes people smart. Even if we made a list of thousands of people with short hair who are all very smart, we cannot deduce from such a thing that one causes the other.... Perhaps being smart makes people cut their hair more often for hygiene reasons. Then the causation would run the opposite way round he suggested. Also there may be a third factor in effect causing both, for example like this: in the middle ages, to get a decent education, you usually needed to join a monastery. And a rule in the a western monastery is to have your hair cut off in a tonsure.

We might as well suggest that thinking a lot makes your hair fall out, as you can find a lot of academics with a bald head.


Now the muslim propensity for rioting just like that of Christians under pagan Rome could be due to them being an underpaid overbred frustrated underclass in non-muslim societies or it could be due to the inherent differentiation of humanity into believers and non-believers in the religion itself(which even Christians had under pagan Rome).Now what would you believe as correlation and which as causation?

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:32 pm
by manfred
People riot if THEY FEEL they are treated unjustly. Muslims ALWAYS feel that, because they believe the world owes the subservience and tribute in money.

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:16 pm
by Fernando
And they don't just riot when they find themselves in Western countries. Try waving the Mo cartoons in Karachi or Cairo!

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:59 pm
by Nosuperstition

Re: The purpose of religion

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:12 am
by Nosuperstition
Fernando wrote:
Nosuperstition wrote:My father told me in my childhood that having excess hair on the brain would consume a lot of food for that purpose itself and hence having short hair would make you smart.A 6 to 7th standard Brahmin classmate of mine named RamaKrishna who was intelligent always used to have short hair.Now is there any scientific truth in having short hair or is it just a misconception?For example Manmohan Singh,the Sikh who served as India's finance minister was an extremely intelligent person despite having long hair just like all Sikhs and those ancient Hindu sages had.I have also seen many of the female gender who are intelligent a lot despite having thick flowing hair.
So far as I know, that's complete rubbish: any drain on the body would be by growing hair. Short hairs have grwon just as much as long ones but the older hair has been cut off and thrown away. I've never seen it suggested that hair, once grown, sucks any more nutrient from the body - any grease is produced by the follicle, regardless of whether the hair is still all there or has been cut short.
Are naturally long-haired animals dimmer than similar naturally short-haired breeds?


Now Prime Minister of India,Sri Narendra Modi has said recently that no job can be considered low and no job as high ranking as all are essential in a society.

But the above Brahmin friend of mine has a very low opinion of scavenging and used to make fun of that work.Perhaps he learnt it from his parents.So who is correct?

USA Today puts him in his place with this:
A president who'd all but call a senator a whore is unfit to clean toilets in Obama's presidential library or to shine George W. Bush's shoes: Our view


viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17413&p=236984&hilit=Chuck+Schumer#p236984

So even intelligent people of the West seem to have a low opinion of scavenging regardless of their religious beliefs.