Noah's Flood in the Bible

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Ariel
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Ariel »

SAM is an infidel. He is going to burn in hell because he dispute Allah's words. :cry:

What happened...Noah said...
“My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth. If you leave them, they will mislead Your slaves and they will beget none but wicked disbelievers.” (Quran 71:27)
And Allah accepted Noah’s prayer.

Allah instructed Noah to build the ark and passed judgement on the disbelievers in the form of a flood.

Noah chose a place outside the city and far away from the sea to build his ark. The disbelievers mocked and laughed, making comments about the ship’s location, far from any water source. The disbelievers had no comprehension of the power and magnificence of God, so they could not understand why Noah would build a ship, on the top of a hill, far away from the ocean. They called him crazy and laughed out loud. The ship began to take shape and when it was finished, Noah patiently waited for the command from God.
“Until when Our Command came and the lowlands gushed forth, overflowing, We said: ‘Load it with two of each kind of animal (male and female), and embark your family, except against whom the Word has already gone forth, and those who believe.’ And none believed him except a few.” (Quran 11:40
Noah’s wife did not join him, for she had never believed in the message that Noah had been preaching; nor did his oldest son, who preferred to flee to a high mountain. The scholars of Islam hold different opinions about the number of people on the ark, but the highest estimate is 80. As the believers and animals entered the ark, the water gushed from every crack in the earth, and the rain fell from the sky in quantities never seen before. Hour after hour the water levels rose, and the seas and rivers invaded the land.

The believers entered the ark in the name of God, just as Muslims today begin everything they do, in the name of God.
“Embark therein; in the Name of God will be its course and its anchorage. Surely, my Lord is Oft Forgiving, most Merciful. So it sailed with them amidst waves like mountains...” (Quran 11:41)
Noah had built the ark according to God’s instructions, from planks and nails, and it kept the believers safe from the deluge of rain and from the water gushing out of the earth. Then the earth’s interior moved in unusual ways, and the bottom of the oceans rose in sudden bursts causing waves to flood the earth. These waves, as big as mountains, submerged everything; they lifted up the ark, making it appear as fragile as a matchbox tossed in the ocean. This construction, made of wood, became a ship of safety and security, for its passengers had true belief and trust in God.

From his secure place on the ark, Noah could see one of his sons overwhelmed by the water. Noah cried out to his son, imploring him to come aboard the ark and to leave the non-believers to their fate. The son, however, was thinking in terms of this world, and not with heartfelt trust in God. He replied that he would take himself to a mountain, never imagining that waves could swallow a mountain. Noah pleaded with his son saying “nothing can save you on this day except the mercy of God”. The son refused, and he drowned.
“And Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (apart), ‘O my son! Embark with us and be not with the disbelievers.’ The son replied, ‘I will betake myself to a mountain; it will save me from the water.’ Noah said: ‘This day there is no saviour from the Decree of God except him on whom He has mercy.’ And a wave came in between them so he (the son) was among the drowned.” (Quran 11:42-43)
The flood had cleansed the earth of idolatry and disbelievers. Not a single person who had disbelieved in God remained on the earth. The earth swallowed up the water and the ark rested upon Mt. Judi (what is believed to be in present day Turkey).

Noah released the animals, the birds and the insects and they scattered over the earth. Noah and his family (the believers) disembarked, whereupon Noah touched his head to the ground in prostration. At this point the Quran and the narrations of Prophet Muhammad leave the story of Noah.

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Ariel
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Ariel »

SAM wrote:
According to Tafsir Hashim Al-Husaini Al-Bahrani, there were eight animals on the Ark mentioned in Quran 7:143-144 which include goats, sheep, cows and camels.
What kind of translation you are using SAM? I can't find the verse "there were eight animals on the Ark"

Please help me and give me a link.
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by manfred »

According to Tafsir Hashim Al-Husaini Al-Bahrani, there were eight animals on the Ark mentioned in Quran 7:143-144 which include goats, sheep, cows and camels.
Ok then, let's have a look:
Quran 7:143-144 wrote:When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."
(Allah) said: "O Moses! I have chosen thee above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks."
Any goats, sheep, cows or camels? Just a tiny one? Anywhere in that text at all, in any way? Anything remotely about Noah? I think you got that mixed up.... Look up again where you found that and post the correct version.


It does have something rather odd though.... Moses says "I am the first to believe?" If Moses was the first Muslim, what did Noah preach?

And We appear to have rather a lot of FIRST Muslims:

Adam .... Abraham, Moses, Mohammed.... how many can actually be first?
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Ariel »

:lol: We are going to make a real Muslim from SAM. This far it seems SAM practice the sugar version and that is NO GOOD for a real Muslim.
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

Ariel wrote:
SAM wrote:
According to Tafsir Hashim Al-Husaini Al-Bahrani, there were eight animals on the Ark mentioned in Quran 7 6:143-144 which include goats, sheep, cows and camels.
What kind of translation you are using SAM? I can't find the verse "there were eight animals on the Ark"

Please help me and give me a link.
Sorry darling... :lol: Al-An'am 6:143-144
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Ariel »

SAM wrote:
Ariel wrote:
What kind of translation you are using SAM? I can't find the verse "there were eight animals on the Ark"

Please help me and give me a link.
Sorry darling... :lol: Al-An'am 6:143-144
Ahh yes..Where are my glasses.Image Oke.. found them.

I can see it clearly now. And Allah said to Noah...Listen mate...
(6:143) These are eight couples, two of sheep, two of goats. Now ask them: 'Is it either the two males that Allah has forbidden or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females may contain? Tell me about this on the basis of sure knowledge, if you speak the truth.'

(6:144) And likewise, of camels there are two, and of oxen there are two. Ask them: 'Is it either the two males that He has forbidden or the two females, or that which the wombs of the two females may contain? Or were you present when Allah enjoined this commandment upon you?' Who, then, would be more unjust than he who fabricates a lie against Allah that he might lead people astray without knowledge. Surely Allah never guides such a wrong-doing folk.
And a bit further we read....
( 6:147 ) And take one of the sheep and give her to the goat and out them will be born a male with the brain of the sheep and the Stubbornness of the Holy Goat and his name will be SAM.
It is as clear as daylight to me now.
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by manfred »

:lol: Slight problem, whatever this Allah was on about, he did not say that to Noah, he does not even get a passing mention anywhere in the text, not before or afterwards in the surah, and the flood and the ark is also conspicuously absent. So whoever wrote that tafsir was probably drunk.

You might as well say it all about my great aunt Frieda and her habit of collecting manure from all kinds of places for her garden.

She is also completely absent in the text, so why Noah and not her? Sex discrimination?
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

Ariel wrote:
SAM wrote:
Ariel wrote:
What kind of translation you are using SAM? I can't find the verse "there were eight animals on the Ark"

Please help me and give me a link.
Sorry darling... :lol: Al-An'am 6:143-144
Ahh yes..Where are my glasses.Image Oke.. found them.

I can see it clearly now. And Allah said to Noah...Listen mate...
(6:143) These are eight couples, two of sheep, two of goats. Now ask them: 'Is it either the two males that Allah has forbidden or the two females, or what the wombs of the two females may contain? Tell me about this on the basis of sure knowledge, if you speak the truth.'

(6:144) And likewise, of camels there are two, and of oxen there are two. Ask them: 'Is it either the two males that He has forbidden or the two females, or that which the wombs of the two females may contain? Or were you present when Allah enjoined this commandment upon you?' Who, then, would be more unjust than he who fabricates a lie against Allah that he might lead people astray without knowledge. Surely Allah never guides such a wrong-doing folk.
And a bit further we read....
( 6:147 ) And take one of the sheep and give her to the goat and out them will be born a male with the brain of the sheep and the Stubbornness of the Holy Goat and his name will be SAM.
It is as clear as daylight to me now.
Hello Honey.. :lol: don't use glasses, use magnifying glass..you can see clearly no dinosaur, no polar bear, no kangaroos, no kungfu panda etc in the Noah's Ark... Only idiot Christians and Jews believe that all animals,beast, insects etc of the world in the Noah's Ark.. :lol:
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Ariel »

SAM wrote:Hello Honey.. :lol: don't use glasses, use magnifying glass..you can see clearly no dinosaur, no polar bear, no kangaroos, no kungfu panda etc in the Noah's Ark... Only idiot Christians and Jews believe that all animals,beast, insects etc of the world in the Noah's Ark.. :lol:
Take a drink SAM and stop smoking pot. . Your post are getting more, and more stupid. If you go on like this, no one will ever take you serious.I hope people won't think all Muslims are crazy after reading your posts.
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

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Sam, perhaps you want to comment on this :
Abdallah ibn 'Umar al-Baidawi, writing in the 13th century, explains that in the first of its three levels wild and domesticated animals were lodged, in the second the human beings, and in the third the birds. On every plank was the name of a prophet. Three missing planks, symbolizing three prophets, were brought from Egypt by Og, son of Anak, the only one of the giants permitted to survive the Flood. The body of Adam was carried in the middle to divide the men from the women. Surah 11:41 says: "And he said, 'Ride ye in it; in the Name of Allah it moves and stays!'"; this was taken to mean that Noah said, "In the Name of Allah!" when he wished the ark to move, and the same when he wished it to stand still.

Noah spent five or six months aboard the ark, at the end of which he sent out a raven. But the raven stopped to feast on carrion, and so Noah cursed it and sent out the dove, which has been known ever since as the friend of humanity. The medieval scholar Abu al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn Masudi (died 956) wrote that Allah commanded the Earth to absorb the water, and certain portions which were slow in obeying received salt water in punishment and so became dry and arid. The water which was not absorbed formed the seas, so that the waters of the flood still exist. Masudi says that the ark began its voyage at Kufa in central Iraq and sailed to Mecca, circling the Kaaba before finally traveling to Mount Judi, which surah 11:44 states was its final resting place. This mountain is identified by tradition with a hill near the town of Jazirat ibn Umar on the east bank of the Tigris in the province of Mosul in northern Iraq, and Masudi says that the spot could be seen in his time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark#Islam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or this:
When the water started to gush from the earth and fall from the sky, God instructed Noah to enter the ark with his family and the believers. God also commanded Noah to take a pair (male and female) of every animal, bird and insect with him.
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1 ... ah-part-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

Ariel wrote:
SAM wrote:Hello Honey.. :lol: don't use glasses, use magnifying glass..you can see clearly no dinosaur, no polar bear, no kangaroos, no kungfu panda etc in the Noah's Ark... Only idiot Christians and Jews believe that all animals,beast, insects etc of the world in the Noah's Ark.. :lol:
Take a drink SAM and stop smoking pot. . Your post are getting more, and more stupid. If you go on like this, no one will ever take you serious.I hope people won't think all Muslims are crazy after reading your posts.
Who cares.. I don't give a damn sh!t what other people think after reading my posts...
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:Sam, perhaps you want to comment on this :
Abdallah ibn 'Umar al-Baidawi, writing in the 13th century, explains that in the first of its three levels wild and domesticated animals were lodged, in the second the human beings, and in the third the birds. On every plank was the name of a prophet. Three missing planks, symbolizing three prophets, were brought from Egypt by Og, son of Anak, the only one of the giants permitted to survive the Flood. The body of Adam was carried in the middle to divide the men from the women. Surah 11:41 says: "And he said, 'Ride ye in it; in the Name of Allah it moves and stays!'"; this was taken to mean that Noah said, "In the Name of Allah!" when he wished the ark to move, and the same when he wished it to stand still.

Noah spent five or six months aboard the ark, at the end of which he sent out a raven. But the raven stopped to feast on carrion, and so Noah cursed it and sent out the dove, which has been known ever since as the friend of humanity. The medieval scholar Abu al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn Masudi (died 956) wrote that Allah commanded the Earth to absorb the water, and certain portions which were slow in obeying received salt water in punishment and so became dry and arid. The water which was not absorbed formed the seas, so that the waters of the flood still exist. Masudi says that the ark began its voyage at Kufa in central Iraq and sailed to Mecca, circling the Kaaba before finally traveling to Mount Judi, which surah 11:44 states was its final resting place. This mountain is identified by tradition with a hill near the town of Jazirat ibn Umar on the east bank of the Tigris in the province of Mosul in northern Iraq, and Masudi says that the spot could be seen in his time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah's_Ark#Islam" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This tradition is nowhere to be found in either the Quran or the authentic hadiths!

Always keep in your mind that you are a Christian,(Islam hater) with limited knowledge about the Islamic sources?

You also do not know how to compare between Israliyat and authentic Tafsirs and you just take and pick whatever you think is true and authentic... :yuk:

Muslims most trust-worthy sources are the Quran and Sunnah.... :smartass:
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by Fernando »

Why do you keep wriggling so, SAM?
SAM wrote:
This tradition is nowhere to be found in either the Quran or the authentic hadiths!

Always keep in your mind that you are a Christian,(Islam hater) with limited knowledge about the Islamic sources?

You also do not know how to compare between Israliyat and authentic Tafsirs and you just take and pick whatever you think is true and authentic... :yuk:

Muslims most trust-worthy sources are the Quran and Sunnah.... :smartass:
Manfred's quote may not be from the Koran or "authentic" hadiths but surely you must accept this, especially as you yourself referred to it without reference earlier!
(23:27) Thereupon We revealed to him, saying: "Build the Ark under Our eyes and according to Our revelation. And when Our command comes to pass29 and the oven boils over, take on board a pair each from every species, and also take your household except those of them against whom sentence has already been passed and do not plead to Me on behalf of the wrong-doers. They are doomed to be drowned.
Not limited to the ox, the camel and the kangaroo and five others there!
So were there pigs or not? If they didn't get on board before Noah sailed, and you say they were there on the ark, and they're certainly here now, how did they get there? Maybe al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third snuck them on board while Noah was drunk?
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

Ariel wrote:SAM is an infidel. He is going to burn in hell because he dispute Allah's words. :cry:

What happened...Noah said...
“My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth. If you leave them, they will mislead Your slaves and they will beget none but wicked disbelievers.” (Quran 71:27)
And Allah accepted Noah’s prayer.

Allah instructed Noah to build the ark and passed judgement on the disbelievers in the form of a flood.

Noah chose a place outside the city and far away from the sea to build his ark. The disbelievers mocked and laughed, making comments about the ship’s location, far from any water source. The disbelievers had no comprehension of the power and magnificence of God, so they could not understand why Noah would build a ship, on the top of a hill, far away from the ocean. They called him crazy and laughed out loud. The ship began to take shape and when it was finished, Noah patiently waited for the command from God.
“Until when Our Command came and the lowlands gushed forth, overflowing, We said: ‘Load it with two of each kind of animal (male and female), and embark your family, except against whom the Word has already gone forth, and those who believe.’ And none believed him except a few.” (Quran 11:40
Noah’s wife did not join him, for she had never believed in the message that Noah had been preaching; nor did his oldest son, who preferred to flee to a high mountain. The scholars of Islam hold different opinions about the number of people on the ark, but the highest estimate is 80. As the believers and animals entered the ark, the water gushed from every crack in the earth, and the rain fell from the sky in quantities never seen before. Hour after hour the water levels rose, and the seas and rivers invaded the land.

The believers entered the ark in the name of God, just as Muslims today begin everything they do, in the name of God.
“Embark therein; in the Name of God will be its course and its anchorage. Surely, my Lord is Oft Forgiving, most Merciful. So it sailed with them amidst waves like mountains...” (Quran 11:41)
Noah had built the ark according to God’s instructions, from planks and nails, and it kept the believers safe from the deluge of rain and from the water gushing out of the earth. Then the earth’s interior moved in unusual ways, and the bottom of the oceans rose in sudden bursts causing waves to flood the earth. These waves, as big as mountains, submerged everything; they lifted up the ark, making it appear as fragile as a matchbox tossed in the ocean. This construction, made of wood, became a ship of safety and security, for its passengers had true belief and trust in God.

From his secure place on the ark, Noah could see one of his sons overwhelmed by the water. Noah cried out to his son, imploring him to come aboard the ark and to leave the non-believers to their fate. The son, however, was thinking in terms of this world, and not with heartfelt trust in God. He replied that he would take himself to a mountain, never imagining that waves could swallow a mountain. Noah pleaded with his son saying “nothing can save you on this day except the mercy of God”. The son refused, and he drowned.
“And Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (apart), ‘O my son! Embark with us and be not with the disbelievers.’ The son replied, ‘I will betake myself to a mountain; it will save me from the water.’ Noah said: ‘This day there is no saviour from the Decree of God except him on whom He has mercy.’ And a wave came in between them so he (the son) was among the drowned.” (Quran 11:42-43)
The flood had cleansed the earth of idolatry and disbelievers. Not a single person who had disbelieved in God remained on the Earth . The earth swallowed up the water and the ark rested upon Mt. Judi (what is believed to be in present day Turkey).

Noah released the animals, the birds and the insects and they scattered over the earth. Noah and his family (the believers) disembarked, whereupon Noah touched his head to the ground in prostration. At this point the Quran and the narrations of Prophet Muhammad leave the story of Noah.

And Allah Tala the moon god knows best. Image
I already mentioned the meaning Earth in Arabic also means territory, land. Deluge just happened to Noah's people (local) and his homeland, not all people in the world. Compare to the Bible that teaches that the flood was global..
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

Fernando wrote:Not limited to the ox, the camel and the kangaroo and five others there!
So were there pigs or not? If they didn't get on board before Noah sailed, and you say they were there on the ark, and they're certainly here now, how did they get there? Maybe al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third snuck them on board while Noah was drunk?
Of course, no wild boars especially domestic pigs on board. The animals on board Noah's Ark is in the area of his homeland. Did not come from Sumatra, Australia, China, North / South Poles, Africa, North / South America.

Genesis 9:21. "Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard. 21 He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent."

It is contrary to the Quran, Noah was not drunk.
Last edited by SAM on Wed May 11, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by manfred »

There are a whole range of odd traditions in Islam around Noah, such as the devil having sneaked on board the ark. In fact, Muslims embroidered the old tale more than others, partly because they did not have any respect for the original. So bit by bit various scholars in later times added pieces. This in a way a natural thing, legends have a habit of growing and developing. So, for example, we also have that strange tradition about the two missing planks of wood. This is not merely a touch of new colour to an old story, it is an addition with an agenda.

This is fact the normal life cycle of all legends. Usually initiated by some long last but real event, the story gets a life of its own, as it told and retold, with each narrator adding something of his own.

This is what I was hoping you would see SAM. Interestingly, the most recent twists and turns the story is taking in Islam is to get to grips with the obvious issues of "all the animals" and "all unbelievers were drowned".

To the Muslims of the past these were non-issues, so we find no variants of the tale dealing with this until quite modern days.

What is rather odd is how Muslims play the legend game, as the quotes are showing, without actually realizing it. As as you are doing SAM, most Muslims still hold on to the idea of the real Noah, while at the same time changing him, at times even more than Mohammed did.

To me this somewhat peculiar, but what can I say...
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote:There are a whole range of odd traditions in Islam around Noah, such as the devil having sneaked on board the ark. In fact, Muslims embroidered the old tale more than others, partly because they did not have any respect for the original. So bit by bit various scholars in later times added pieces. This in a way a natural thing, legends have a habit of growing and developing. So, for example, we also have that strange tradition about the two missing planks of wood. This is not merely a touch of new colour to an old story, it is an addition with an agenda.

This is fact the normal life cycle of all legends. Usually initiated by some long last but real event, the story gets a life of its own, as it told and retold, with each narrator adding something of his own.

This is what I was hoping you would see SAM. Interestingly, the most recent twists and turns the story is taking in Islam is to get to grips with the obvious issues of "all the animals" and "all unbelievers were drowned".

To the Muslims of the past these were non-issues, so we find no variants of the tale dealing with this until quite modern days.

What is rather odd is how Muslims play the legend game, as the quotes are showing, without actually realizing it. As as you are doing SAM, most Muslims still hold on to the idea of the real Noah, while at the same time changing him, at times even more than Mohammed did.

To me this somewhat peculiar, but what can I say...
I don't buy it...keep your knowledge to yourself. :D
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by manfred »

I already mentioned the meaning Earth in Arabic also means territory, land. Deluge just happened to Noah's people (local) and his homeland, not all people in the world. Compare to the Bible that teaches that the flood was global..
Yes you did and you got a reply, which you did not address. Two problems: If the flood the Qur'an is talking about was meant to be a local one, what would be the point of collecting the animals? Or are you editing that bit out from the Qur'an?

The second problem is that the Qur'an claims that ALL "unbelievers" were drowned and ALL living people are descendants of Noah and his people I gave you the quote. Hadith and tafsir even spell out what people descend from what son of Noah. You interjected that for example the Chinese were not categorised, to which I asked you if you expect writers to mention cultures they never heard of. Obviously you can only expect any writer to talk about what he actually knows.

Certainly the Noah Mohammed talked about took animals of every kind and also survived a global flood. It is really only modern Muslims who are trying to rewrite those things because clearly they make no sense.

It is contrary to the Quran, Noah was not drunk.
Very good SAM, you are pointing out another general feature of legends I forgot to mention. Generally "heroes" in legends start of as perfectly normal people with good sides and bad sides, but as time goes by, they get more and more idolised. In the older version of the story Noah had faults. He was not perfect. In the Islamic rewrite, these vanish. The same is true for pretty much all "prophets": the biblical David killed a friend to steal his wife. There is also a hint of a homosexual liaison. The later Islam David had no such issues. Lot, sleeping with his daughters? Gone. In later versions of stories heroes become more idealised.

Now apply what you just stumbled upon to Mohammed... how did he become "perfect"?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

iffo
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by iffo »

manfred wrote:
iffo wrote:We know what Jesus said. Those were Jesus's words and Jesus had no reason to say "back in the days" if Noah was not a real person.
Actually no. We know what Matthew and Luke have said, some 30 years after Jesus. We can be quite certain that when Jesus taught about judgement day he mentioned Noah, but the EXACT words? 30 years later?

SO they were Mathew's words "back in the days" not words of Jesus. So basically its not only this thing about Noah, but basically nothing we read regarding what Jesus said in gospel can be claimed 100% correct. Only god knows what he said, as he was so stupid that he sent his son but had no plan to record anything he said for coming generations that they can trust. See how silly this whole thing is.


And of course you dismiss the teachings about content and form because they would not fit your ideas. Nobody else, not even of people who spent their entire life studying the text, have any idea at all, only iffo has.

Well islamic scholars also spent their whole life studying Islam, so do we agree with them and believe everything they say?

For the last time, "in the days of Noah" is a pointer to the story of Noah, and does not by necessity say Noah was a real person. It may be addressed at people who believed that he was, but Jesus does not tell us his own views on that. Otherwise you could clearly show me passages where Jesus expounded the historicity of Noah. The simple fact is, Jesus did NOT teach that, he said nothing as such about it.



Most Jews and pretty much all Christians will tell you that Noah is a legend, and story with a point. It is you who will not accept that simple point.

That means very little manfred, they have no choice because this whole Noah story is so stupid. But Jesus confirmed it by saying "Back in the days"
Like skynightblaze said , please provide an example where "back in the days" was used for a fictional character .

.

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SAM
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Re: Noah's Flood in the Bible

Post by SAM »

manfred wrote: Yes you did and you got a reply, which you did not address. Two problems: If the flood the Qur'an is talking about was meant to be a local one, what would be the point of collecting the animals? Or are you editing that bit out from the Qur'an?

The second problem is that the Qur'an claims that ALL "unbelievers" were drowned and ALL living people are descendants of Noah and his people I gave you the quote. Hadith and tafsir even spell out what people descend from what son of Noah. You interjected that for example the Chinese were not categorised, to which I asked you if you expect writers to mention cultures they never heard of. Obviously you can only expect any writer to talk about what he actually knows.

Certainly the Noah Mohammed talked about took animals of every kind and also survived a global flood. It is really only modern Muslims who are trying to rewrite those things because clearly they make no sense.
The great flood destroyed Noah's people only. Bear in your mind there is no mention is made of it being a global flood in the Quran. You need to provide evidence from the Quran or authentic hadiths, which states clearly that the flood was global.

I asked you before, and you ignore it, do you expect that Noah traveled and swim all the oceans around the world such as Ocean Pacific, Atlantic Ocean, Indian Ocean etc to countries such as Australia, North and South America, Asia, Africa etc. Maybe Allah forgot want to lend Al-Buraq to Noah.. :lotpot:

Did Noah know speak multiple languages Chinese, Javanese, Malay, Zulu, Tamil, Pakistani, Maya, Inca, Aztecs and other languages to tell people to go back to the worship of the One True God. And bring all the insects/animals of the world, walk or swim to Noah's ark his homeland in Turkey or Mountains of Ararat. Allah was only referring to Noah's animals only.
manfred wrote:
It is contrary to the Quran, Noah was not drunk.
Very good SAM, you are pointing out another general feature of legends I forgot to mention. Generally "heroes" in legends start of as perfectly normal people with good sides and bad sides, but as time goes by, they get more and more idolised. In the older version of the story Noah had faults. He was not perfect. In the Islamic rewrite, these vanish. The same is true for pretty much all "prophets": the biblical David killed a friend to steal his wife. There is also a hint of a homosexual liaison. The later Islam David had no such issues. Lot, sleeping with his daughters? Gone. In later versions of stories heroes become more idealised.

Now apply what you just stumbled upon to Mohammed... how did he become "perfect"?
That is why the Bible and the Torah has been corrupted and unreliable as the word of God.
Last edited by SAM on Wed May 11, 2016 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)

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