The Qur'an or the Bible: Which is God's Word

[cl6ub]

What is the acceptable criteria to use to prove the truthfulness of religious book / books?

[manfred]

That is an excellent question...
However the starting point was the AUTHORSHIP of religious texts, and even though that is closely linked it is not the same.

I would start by saying if God wrote a book it would be "truthful" in as much at least that it would not contain any factual errors, historical errors, or internal contradictions.

[Chiclets]

Screw the prophets and the "signs" and the "books" and all of this CRAP and just prove that he exists - give us something real.  Otherwise he's less believable than leprechauns and tooth fairies.

[pr126]

Screw the prophets and the "signs" and the "books" and all of this CRAP and just prove that he exists - give us something real.  Otherwise he's less believable than leprechauns and tooth fairies.

Who needs proof when you have faith?

[manfred]

Screw the prophets and the "signs" and the "books" and all of this CRAP and just prove that he exists - give us something real.  Otherwise he's less believable than leprechauns and tooth fairies.

The point of this thread, started by a rather strange Muslim, was to ridicule the bible and then conclude THEREFORE the Qur'an was "from God", as if one was not, the other one has to be. Somehow he could not understand whatever one book was or was not, it really had little or no bearing on the other book.

He also started a thread on Atheists, equally silly. If you like funny stuff have a read of it:

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=16758

And my reply to cl6ub was starting with this assumption: "if God wrote a book, what would it be like?" I may be entirely wrong and he might simply produce the best ever comedy...

[cl6ub]

Screw the prophets and the "signs" and the "books" and all of this CRAP and just prove that he exists - give us something real.  Otherwise he's less believable than leprechauns and tooth fairies.

I assume what you have in mind is a humanoid personnel that can be summon at will?

[Fernando]

Screw the prophets and the "signs" and the "books" and all of this CRAP and just prove that he exists - give us something real.  Otherwise he's less believable than leprechauns and tooth fairies.

I assume what you have in mind is a humanoid personnel that can be summon at will?

No, those are jinn. Provided you have the right lamp.

[manfred]

Just wondering,cl6ub... all this "prophet" business according to Islam has been going on for ages but it really was not terribly successful. Most prophets we never heard of, as apparently there are many thousands, some according to Islam were abject failures, like Jesus, and even Mohammed has not achieved his declared aim to eradicate all religions except Islam, there are still around.

So why did Allah not know in advance this strategy was somewhat poor and does not bring proper results? And if he didn't know, why did he not learn from past disasters and changed his strategy?

Why not simply make people born with any message already present in the brains, for example? Or these day and age, if Allah wants a chat, there is twitter and facebook, or even a forum ...

Suppose you are the teacher of a class of kids and you want then to learn about trigonometry. You could send the school caretaker (janitor) to the class with a message "study trigonometry, or else.", while you have a nice cup of tea... But will it work?

Or would it not be better you go to the class and actually teach it?

[Fernando]

Or these day and age, if Allah wants a chat, there is twitter and facebook, or even a forum ...

But Manfred, that's already happening: Allah - in the guise of SAM - is chattering to us all the time!

[Hombre]

Or these day and age, if Allah wants a chat, there is twitter and facebook, or even a forum ...

But Manfred, that's already happening: Allah - in the guise of SAM - is chattering to us all the time!

By now I am convinced that Samuel is a self hating Jew, masqueraded as "devout Muslim".

[pr126]

The Qur'an or the Bible: Which is God's Word
Neither actually. Every religious scripture ever created, no matter which, were written by humans.

However, here is a question.

Muslims claim that the Quran is Allah's verbatim dictation in Arabic.

Also, it is intended for all mankind, and the Quran is only valid if it is in the Arabic language, translations don't count, apparently.

How is a religion intended for all mankind and not just for Arabs, when Allah should know that they do not speak, read or understand Arabic without a valid translation?

The claim that one can only understand the Quran in Arabic makes no sense for a universal religion.

[cl6ub]

Just wondering,cl6ub... all this "prophet" business according to Islam has been going on for ages but it really was not terribly successful. Most prophets we never heard of, as apparently there are many thousands, some according to Islam were abject failures, like Jesus, and even Mohammed has not achieved his declared aim to eradicate all religions except Islam, there are still around.

So why did Allah not know in advance this strategy was somewhat poor and does not bring proper results? And if he didn't know, why did he not learn from past disasters and changed his strategy?

Why not simply make people born with any message already present in the brains, for example? Or these day and age, if Allah wants a chat, there is twitter and facebook, or even a forum ...

Suppose you are the teacher of a class of kids and you want then to learn about trigonometry. You could send the school caretaker (janitor) to the class with a message "study trigonometry, or else.", while you have a nice cup of tea... But will it work?

Or would it not be better you go to the class and actually teach it?

You have quite few things in your mind and I am sure you are no the only one. I had that and bit by bit I try to understand it. Since it is vast here is one that I have in mind right now since these queries are not new:

"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except,
by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission to what Allah wills:
For He is Most High, Most Wise"

Certainly the subject of theology is not for the passerby but for those who long to meet his lord. I may return with subject if I get something to add.

[manfred]

You answer that quoting the Qur'an? Now, think upon this: who benefits from this assertion? What if Mohammed simply said that to stop people from thinking about "prophets" and questioning his claims?

[cl6ub]

You answer that quoting the Qur'an? Now, think upon this: who benefits from this assertion? What if Mohammed simply said that to stop people from thinking about "prophets" and questioning his claims?

Everything is possible.

[pr126]

You answer that quoting the Qur'an? Now, think upon this: who benefits from this assertion? What if Mohammed simply said that to stop people from thinking about "prophets" and questioning his claims?

Everything is possible.

Except escaping the mental prison of lifelong indoctrination by Islam.
Very few are brave enough, or intelligent enough to do it.

[AlexmenCorn]

The Flat Earth-Bible is supposed to be an authoritative book on the flat earth. In the books title, "Bible" is defined informally as an authoritative book. The word "Bible" in the title, has nothing to do with The Holy Bible.

Just like the link I posted in which the Buyers-Leasers Negotiating Bible is supposed to be an authoritative book on buying and leasing. It also has nothing to do with The Holy Bible.

[manfred]

However, it is also true that the cosmology of most of the biblical authors assume a flat earth.