What is god?

Does God exist? Is Allah God? Creation vs. evolution.
Is Religion needed? Logic vs. faith. Morality and ethics.
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Equestrian
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Re: What is god?

Post by Equestrian »

sum wrote:I think that Equestrian has left the thread which is a disappointment as I was looking forward to his reply.

sum

Please stop obsessively trolling me. It's getting to be very creepy.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" ~Carl Sagan

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Fernando
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Re: What is god?

Post by Fernando »

You are still failing to distinguish between the real world and the imaginary. The rules of logic may be the same on both sides of the divide, but arguments involving both sides simultaneously may not be valid.
The Muslim might be correct in saying that i cannot disprove the existence of his imaginary Allah but there is a mass of evidence to show that Islamic scripture delares that Mohammed consummated his marriage when his wife was nine and that his practice is enshrined in Muslim law and custom. Any speculation is on the part of the Muslim, who chooses to believe that Mohammed existed in the first place. There is no speculation as to the nature of Muslim scripture, law and custom.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

sum
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Re: What is god?

Post by sum »

Hello Equestrian

I am not trolling you but I am very disappointed that you are avoiding answering a question which is very relevant to the ongoing discussion and in which you express very strong logical arguments.

Do you believe that there are logically acceptable arguments for the non-existence of a god or does the "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" overrule and trump any arguments for the non-existence of a god?

I am asking you because you appear very well read on these matters of logic and which seem to be of particular interest to you.

sum

sum
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Re: What is god?

Post by sum »

Hello Equestrian

Equestrian » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:46 pm
sum wrote:
Hello Equestrian

As long as "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is accepted, is it possible ever to argue logically that god does not exist?

sum


Equestrian
Of course.


Postby sum » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:37 pm

Hello Equestrian

If one can logically argue for the non-existence of a god despite the "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence", please explain how.

sum

I have had no sensible reply which answers my question.

Hello Equestrian
If you are not prepared to give a proper reply to my question and continue to ignore me, please have the courtesy to say that you do not wish to enter into any discussion with me, otherwise please answer my question.

sum

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Hombre
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Re: What is god?

Post by Hombre »

existence of God resides in the heart of each one of us. Granted, in each religion, God is described slightly different then others. Nonetheless, we all carry some guidance in our hears.

Atheists call it "logic" & "reasoning", and they are right - where, Judea-Christinity-Islam perceive god residing up in sky beyond human reach. In essence, it is all the same - some power unknown to us is guiding us in our daily and overall life.

Nosuperstition
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Re: What is god?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Atheists call it "logic" & "reasoning", and they are right - where, Judea-Christinity-Islam perceive god residing up in sky beyond human reach.
Yes logic and reasoning tells you that the mention of human sacrifice and blood oblation and the later abhorrence of the same in both Hinduism and Judeo-Christianity(in fact sacrilege to the holy fire ritual called yagna by demons in later day Hinduism is done by desecrating it with blood and bones) means that habits that were once part and parcel of the religion were later done away with using reasoning.

But then does God/gods change their rules according to logic or demand that human beings follow the rules laid down by them in the scriptures?If so how can logic/reasoning and belief in the supernatural be one and the same?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: What is god?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Now in my childhood,I came to know about some real life story of a boy wanting his younger brother to become fairer as a result of which he placed his younger one in a washing machine and turned it on.All he got as a result was a dead corpse.

We also frequently hear of kids being horribly boiled in boiling tub when the attention of their parents is concentrated elsewhere.

Now that is how much intelligently human beings are designed.Only shows that we are here because of random selections made by nature.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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manfred
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Re: What is god?

Post by manfred »

Now that is how much intelligently human beings are designed.Only shows that we are here because of random selections made by nature.
I suppose you mean "Now that is how much human beings are designed intelligently" which is more like correct English. Now, while I appreciate that the "intelligent design" argument has a number of problems, it cannot be dismissed by producing an anecdote of some less than intelligent behaviour, for 2 reasons: a) Intelligent design does not claim that all humans are made equally intelligent. and b) an individual thing or person is only imperfectly reflecting a design, if there is one. Would you point at a faulty car and conclude that cars in general don't work?

So, you need to bring a general argument to show the problems with the "intelligent design" idea, not a story about some boy.

Now, reading this story, I would draw a different conclusion.... I would have some difficulty in believing this motive to make the little brother more beautiful. A simpler, and more likely explanation is that the older boy was in some way jealous or angry with his little brother. It sound more like a Cain and Abel scenario to me. The "I wanted to make him fairer" sound like a lame excuse, and a rather dumb one at that.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

Nosuperstition
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Re: What is god?

Post by Nosuperstition »

Would you point at a faulty car and conclude that cars in general don't work?
The thing is almost all children without caste,creed,religion,race etc are all quite quite innocent and have quite impressionable minds.That is the exact reason why a forummer with the nick antineoetc posted about Saint Auguistine saying that give me a child below 7 years of age and I will give you the person of your needs. Similiarly according to sum,muslim clerics in U.K boast about how they have already indoctrinated their young with ROM of Islam.In the Islamic invasions of the sub-continent after devastating depredations,male child slaves were always a priority as they are quite impressionable.

And kids are being asked in Afghanistan to press the button of self detonation of bombs tied to the waist as that would cause flowers to rain down on the nearby NATO soldiers.Children were aroused by the medieval Catholic clergymen to go to war in crusades against the Muslim rulers of the middle East.Now this is not the case of one car being faulty.It is the case of a whole age group of humanity being not able to take their own decisions.That is the reason why one should become a major to exercise his right to vote(It is another matter that this universal right of franchise occurred in the West in a phased manner with some groups of people of even the major age group being denied the right to vote).

I have seen in my 8th class biology book various diagrams of the various stages in the development of human foetus.In the early weeks of pregnancy,they resemble more like animals before finally taking the human form.So the logic that we are all intelligently designed stands outdated as an intelligent design must mean that we should be such programmed that we must be away from potential dangers.It is not the question of one faulty car or one black sheep in the family.
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

Nosuperstition
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Re: What is god?

Post by Nosuperstition »

If their children are so intelligently designed why is it the parents always have to keep a watchful eye on their kids,when they still are kids?
palli or halli in Dravidian languages means a village just like gaav in Aryan languages means a village.palli or halli in Aryan Mauryan Imperial era around 200 B.C designates a tribal hamlet.So many of those in South India are indeed descendants of tribals and are still keeping up that heritage.

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Fernando
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Re: What is god?

Post by Fernando »

Nosuperstition wrote:
So the logic that we are all intelligently designed stands outdated as an intelligent design must mean that we should be such programmed that we must be away from potential dangers.It is not the question of one faulty car or one black sheep in the family.
Well, of course children are not intelligently designed, they have evolved - a process which takes many generations. So they could not have evolved to know, at birth, to instinctively avoid suicide vests. Learning is much more powerful and versatile than instince and many young animals have to learn from their parents as well as behave intinctively. Unforutunately, humans have so much more ability to learn that stupid or evil adults can teach little ones to do crazy suicidal things by taking control of their learning and not letting them see and learn from the real world.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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manfred
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Re: What is god?

Post by manfred »

Also, obviously children are quite different from adults, they are POTENTIAL adults; it takes time, effort and education to turn a child into a successful, well balanced adult who is properly able to think for him/herself. Many things can go wrong, and worse, often the effort is not even properly made. The sad part is, that those who control state education cannot even see any value in turning out independent thinkers. More often than not, all they want is people educated just enough to do any menial work for the state, and the intelligence or freedom to examine government actions is definitely not encouraged.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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