The talmud

[Ghaith]

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honour the the dog more than the non-Jew."
Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30


"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form."
Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
Coschen hamischpat 405

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
Jore dea 377, 1

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."
Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."
Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772
How does a Jew prepare for his crime?

Moed Kattan 17a . If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.


Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.



O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.


Jews Have Superior Legal Status

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."


Jews May Steal from Non-Jews

Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."


Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.


Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.


Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.


Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Insults Against Blessed Mary

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.



Horrible Blasphemy Against Jesus Christ

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement."

Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"



Talmud Attacks Non jews beliefs

Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.


Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.

Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).
Sick and Insane Teachings of the Talmud

Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.


Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.
Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).


Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

http://www.missionislam.com/nwo/talmud.htm

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Added link to copy pasta. M.

[frankie]

Yoss1994:
Your posting of "The Talmud" on this Forum illustrates clearly your desire (as most Muslims wont)to demonize and ridicule the Jewish peoples through their scriptures.

However,The Talmud is a collection of writings taken from oral tradition,and teach human rules and regulations as though they were Gods,i.e. Yahweh.

Jesus,said to be a prophet,even the Messiah in Islam,has a lot to say about these oral traditions,when he faces the teachers of the Law during his time with them.

Your understanding would be greatly improved,if you would care to read Jesus's actual words in Mark 7 1:13.

I would like to add,it is utterly contempible that Islamic teachings portray the Jewish people to be so despised by Muslims,just because they rightly, rejected Mohammed as a true prophet from their God.It is an absolute travesty, that Islam is taught to children to view their fellow humans to be despised as apes 2.65, not to be made friends with 5.51,to be fought against until they submit to Islam,or pay a penalty tax 9.29

Islam teaches Muslims to hate,and that hatred is compounded by the words and examples of its prophet,and the teachings from its god Allah.This hatred has no benefit to humanity,and should be rejected.

[Ghaith]

Yoss1994:
Your posting of "The Talmud" on this Forum illustrates clearly your desire (as most Muslims wont)to demonize and ridicule the Jewish peoples through their scriptures.

However,The Talmud is a collection of writings taken from oral tradition,and teach human rules and regulations as though they were Gods,i.e. Yahweh.

Jesus,said to be a prophet,even the Messiah in Islam,has a lot to say about these oral traditions,when he faces the teachers of the Law during his time with them.

Your understanding would be greatly improved,if you would care to read Jesus's actual words in Mark 7 1:13.

I would like to add,it is utterly contempible that Islamic teachings portray the Jewish people to be so despised by Muslims,just because they rightly, rejected Mohammed as a true prophet from their God.It is an absolute travesty, that Islam is taught to children to view their fellow humans to be despised as apes 2.65, not to be made friends with 5.51,to be fought against until they submit to Islam,or pay a penalty tax 9.29

Islam teaches Muslims to hate,and that hatred is compounded by the words and examples of its prophet,and the teachings from its god Allah.This hatred has no benefit to humanity,and should be rejected.

Im here just to show what the tamud says thats all, while you quote the quran out of context the Talmud states it clear. "Jews May Steal from Non-Jews" "Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed." "Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." .

You claim pedophillia in islam?
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

- Sanhedrin 55b

A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

- Sanhedrin 54b

“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

- Kethuboth 11b

“Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age.”

- Yebhamoth 11b


I assume your a christian ? Since you quote out of the bible right.
Muslims belive Jesus was a Prophet and a Messiah.

This is what the talmud says

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"




I take LAWS sayings from the talmud that can impossible be out of context and you start attacking me. But when the filthy christian missionaries, or zionist do you, you Frankie you support them.

[iffo]

Shorty reply is Islam is garbage and judisium is sh!t or vise versa. Both are men made nonsense.

[Yohan]

“Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age.”
- Yebhamoth 11b
-------------------------.

Jewish texts may contain stuff like that. But one would find no Jew defending such crap. But here you are trying to defend a Muslim man's right to have sex with a 9 years old girl, because it is ok as per Islamic texts. That is the difference between Islam and other religions, and Muslims (like you) and non-Muslims.

[sum]

Hello Ghaith

You must remember that your god confirmed the previous scriptures. Of course he would as he was the only god and all that is written in the talmud and bible is because Allah willed it. Perhaps you believe that there were more than one god. Do you or do you accept that there always had been one god and that was Allah?

sum

[Ghaith]

Hello Ghaith

You must remember that your god confirmed the previous scriptures. Of course he would as he was the only god and all that is written in the talmud and bible is because Allah willed it. Perhaps you believe that there were more than one god. Do you or do you accept that there always had been one god and that was Allah?

sum

Our god confirmed Torah and The gospel.

Talmud was written by rabbis hundreds of years after Moses time...

[frankie]

Yoss1994:
Your posting of "The Talmud" on this Forum illustrates clearly your desire (as most Muslims wont)to demonize and ridicule the Jewish peoples through their scriptures.

However,The Talmud is a collection of writings taken from oral tradition,and teach human rules and regulations as though they were Gods,i.e. Yahweh.

Jesus,said to be a prophet,even the Messiah in Islam,has a lot to say about these oral traditions,when he faces the teachers of the Law during his time with them.

Your understanding would be greatly improved,if you would care to read Jesus's actual words in Mark 7 1:13.

I would like to add,it is utterly contempible that Islamic teachings portray the Jewish people to be so despised by Muslims,just because they rightly, rejected Mohammed as a true prophet from their God.It is an absolute travesty, that Islam is taught to children to view their fellow humans to be despised as apes 2.65, not to be made friends with 5.51,to be fought against until they submit to Islam,or pay a penalty tax 9.29

Islam teaches Muslims to hate,and that hatred is compounded by the words and examples of its prophet,and the teachings from its god Allah.This hatred has no benefit to humanity,and should be rejected.

Im here just to show what the tamud says thats all, while you quote the quran out of context the Talmud states it clear. "Jews May Steal from Non-Jews" "Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed." "Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." .

You claim pedophillia in islam?
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

- Sanhedrin 55b

A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

- Sanhedrin 54b

“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

- Kethuboth 11b

“Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age.”

- Yebhamoth 11b


I assume your a christian ? Since you quote out of the bible right.
Muslims belive Jesus was a Prophet and a Messiah.

This is what the talmud says

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"




I take LAWS sayings from the talmud that can impossible be out of context and you start attacking me. But when the filthy christian missionaries, or zionist do you, you Frankie you support them.

Ghaith

You quote the Talmud for a reason,which is why I responded how I did.As I said,the Talmud is not said to be the literal word of God,the Quran is.

QUOTE"you Frankie you support them"
I support the truth,do you?

Please point out where I am quoting the Quran out of context,I am led to believe the Quran is the eternal literal word of Allah,for the benefit(?) of mankind,which comes with clear signns.So,if I am reading it incorrect,point out how it should be read.

The question about peadophilia is justified,it may be so that children were married to older men in Mohammeds time,BUT Mohammed is given as Allahs best example for Muslims to emulate for ALL TIME,not just 7th century Arabia.This is where the problem lies.Therefore it is permitted for children to marry old men,generally when they start their "menses",which is seen by Muslims as justification for marriage and sexual intercourse.Because we have known for some time now, that child marriage if highly detrimental to the child,due to immaturity of the body and mind,and is highly damaging to society as a whole,child marriage is not allowed.If Mohammed was a true prophet of the same calibre of Jesus,he would have known this to be true,he did'nt,as he went ahead and married Aisha,by her own admission in the Sunnah,when she was only nine years old.Yet one more reason that Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet,due to his own selfish desires of power,wealth and control.These qualities are not the "spiritual"qualities expected from a true prophet of Yahweh.

The question about St Joseph is not relevant to this discussion.Jospeph would have been older than Mary yes,but not by 50 years,looking at Jewish cultural practices,he probably was 18 or 19.
Also,St Joseph is not held as mankinds role model to follow for all times and places.

[Ghaith]

Yoss1994:
Your posting of "The Talmud" on this Forum illustrates clearly your desire (as most Muslims wont)to demonize and ridicule the Jewish peoples through their scriptures.

However,The Talmud is a collection of writings taken from oral tradition,and teach human rules and regulations as though they were Gods,i.e. Yahweh.

Jesus,said to be a prophet,even the Messiah in Islam,has a lot to say about these oral traditions,when he faces the teachers of the Law during his time with them.

Your understanding would be greatly improved,if you would care to read Jesus's actual words in Mark 7 1:13.

I would like to add,it is utterly contempible that Islamic teachings portray the Jewish people to be so despised by Muslims,just because they rightly, rejected Mohammed as a true prophet from their God.It is an absolute travesty, that Islam is taught to children to view their fellow humans to be despised as apes 2.65, not to be made friends with 5.51,to be fought against until they submit to Islam,or pay a penalty tax 9.29

Islam teaches Muslims to hate,and that hatred is compounded by the words and examples of its prophet,and the teachings from its god Allah.This hatred has no benefit to humanity,and should be rejected.

Im here just to show what the tamud says thats all, while you quote the quran out of context the Talmud states it clear. "Jews May Steal from Non-Jews" "Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed." "Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is being boiled in "hot excrement." .

You claim pedophillia in islam?
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

- Sanhedrin 55b

A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

- Sanhedrin 54b

“When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

- Kethuboth 11b

“Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is of three years of age.”

- Yebhamoth 11b


I assume your a christian ? Since you quote out of the bible right.
Muslims belive Jesus was a Prophet and a Messiah.

This is what the talmud says

Sanhedrin 106a . Says Mary was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.


Sanhedrin 43a. Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu (Jesus) was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"




I take LAWS sayings from the talmud that can impossible be out of context and you start attacking me. But when the filthy christian missionaries, or zionist do you, you Frankie you support them.

Ghaith

You quote the Talmud for a reason,which is why I responded how I did.As I said,the Talmud is not said to be the literal word of God,the Quran is.

QUOTE"you Frankie you support them"
I support the truth,do you?

Please point out where I am quoting the Quran out of context,I am led to believe the Quran is the eternal literal word of Allah,for the benefit(?) of mankind,which comes with clear signns.So,if I am reading it incorrect,point out how it should be read.

The question about peadophilia is justified,it may be so that children were married to older men in Mohammeds time,BUT Mohammed is given as Allahs best example for Muslims to emulate for ALL TIME,not just 7th century Arabia.This is where the problem lies.Therefore it is permitted for children to marry old men,generally when they start their "menses",which is seen by Muslims as justification for marriage and sexual intercourse.Because we have known for some time now, that child marriage if highly detrimental to the child,due to immaturity of the body and mind,and is highly damaging to society as a whole,child marriage is not allowed.If Mohammed was a true prophet of the same calibre of Jesus,he would have known this to be true,he did'nt,as he went ahead and married Aisha,by her own admission in the Sunnah,when she was only nine years old.Yet one more reason that Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet,due to his own selfish desires of power,wealth and control.These qualities are not the "spiritual"qualities expected from a true prophet of Yahweh.

The question about St Joseph is not relevant to this discussion.Jospeph would have been older than Mary yes,but not by 50 years,looking at Jewish cultural practices,he probably was 18 or 19.
Also,St Joseph is not held as mankinds role model to follow for all times and places.

Muhammad came for 1400 years ago, the life cycle back then was 40-60, 1 of the reasons people married early. Muhammad married Aisha young so she could carry his lagacy for a long time. 9 year old back than is not 9 year old today. The west which seems to be a role model for you has 10 years of marriage legaly untill 1900 when they made it 14 years old. Today this is looked upon as pedophilia.

I how ever im ready to debate on the moon god issue. Are you still intersted?

[frankie]

QUOTE"you Frankie you support them"
I support the truth,do you?

Please point out where I am quoting the Quran out of context,I am led to believe the Quran is the eternal literal word of Allah,for the benefit(?) of mankind,which comes with clear signns.So,if I am reading it incorrect,point out how it should be read.

The question about peadophilia is justified,it may be so that children were married to older men in Mohammeds time,BUT Mohammed is given as Allahs best example for Muslims to emulate for ALL TIME,not just 7th century Arabia.This is where the problem lies.Therefore it is permitted for children to marry old men,generally when they start their "menses",which is seen by Muslims as justification for marriage and sexual intercourse.Because we have known for some time now, that child marriage if highly detrimental to the child,due to immaturity of the body and mind,and is highly damaging to society as a whole,child marriage is not allowed.If Mohammed was a true prophet of the same calibre of Jesus,he would have known this to be true,he did'nt,as he went ahead and married Aisha,by her own admission in the Sunnah,when she was only nine years old.Yet one more reason that Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet,due to his own selfish desires of power,wealth and control.These qualities are not the "spiritual"qualities expected from a true prophet of Yahweh.

The question about St Joseph is not relevant to this discussion.Jospeph would have been older than Mary yes,but not by 50 years,looking at Jewish cultural practices,he probably was 18 or 19.
Also,St Joseph is not held as mankinds role model to follow for all times and places.[/quote]


Muhammad came for 1400 years ago, the life cycle back then was 40-60, 1 of the reasons people married early. Muhammad married Aisha young so she could carry his lagacy for a long time. 9 year old back than is not 9 year old today. The west which seems to be a role model for you has 10 years of marriage legaly untill 1900 when they made it 14 years old. Today this is looked upon as pedophilia.

I how ever im ready to debate on the moon god issue. Are you still intersted?[/quote]

Ghaith

"Muhammad came for 1400 years ago, the life cycle back then was 40-60, 1 of the reasons people married early. Muhammad married Aisha young so she could carry his lagacy for a long time. 9 year old back than is not 9 year old today. The west which seems to be a role model for you has 10 years of marriage legaly untill 1900 when they made it 14 years old. Today this is looked upon as pedophilia".

It may be true that people did not live as long in Mohammeds time,but as pointed out, Mohammed is held by Allah to be mankinds perfect example to be emulated for all times and places,not just in 7th century Arabia.The Quran is said to be Allahs eternal literal word,therefore should be taken as such by Muslims,if Allah says they are to look to the example of his prophet,to take as their role model throughout their lives,who are they to argue? A nine year old child, is still a nine year old child which ever century you live in,,and will still be damaged phyisically and mentally,by "marrying" and old man.
Mohammeds legacy,shown by the "rightly guided caliphs" was bourn from violence.Aisha herself fought battles with her co-religionists,it was a continous power struggle,culminating with the hostile division between Muslims,still existing today.

Only Muslims are held within this "time warp".They are compelled to follow Allahs instructions and his prophets example without changing any part of them.They are not at liberty to evolve,as and when circumstance dictates,to make for a better way of living.This case of child marriage illustrates what I mean.Muslims are locked into the 7th century mindset,with no excape,consequently millions of children are still being violated,their lives ruined because of a 7th century Arabian,who said he was a prophet.

Conversely,democracy allows for changing man made rules for the betterment of mankind, and man can still live morally in accordance with Gods rules,if you like the Golden Rule,to be at peace with his fellow man.Islamic dogma does not permit this,it commands Muslims to be hostile towards his fellow man, telling them to not take them as friends,to keep away from non Muslims,and even to fight them to make them submit to Allahs rules,because fighting is good for them2:216.

I am afraid you are insulting your own intelligence if you cannot perceive this.Islam is about world domination,similar to they way previous historical tyrants methods.Evil follows the same pattern,it wants to control mind and body,and Islam finds it can do this perfectly with Muslims,because it is in the guise of a religion.

All the evidence for this is in the Quran and Sunnah,all you have to do is read it,as Muslims like to say,with an open mind.

Feel free to state your case for the "moon god issue" when ready.

[Ghaith]

QUOTE"you Frankie you support them"
I support the truth,do you?

Please point out where I am quoting the Quran out of context,I am led to believe the Quran is the eternal literal word of Allah,for the benefit(?) of mankind,which comes with clear signns.So,if I am reading it incorrect,point out how it should be read.

The question about peadophilia is justified,it may be so that children were married to older men in Mohammeds time,BUT Mohammed is given as Allahs best example for Muslims to emulate for ALL TIME,not just 7th century Arabia.This is where the problem lies.Therefore it is permitted for children to marry old men,generally when they start their "menses",which is seen by Muslims as justification for marriage and sexual intercourse.Because we have known for some time now, that child marriage if highly detrimental to the child,due to immaturity of the body and mind,and is highly damaging to society as a whole,child marriage is not allowed.If Mohammed was a true prophet of the same calibre of Jesus,he would have known this to be true,he did'nt,as he went ahead and married Aisha,by her own admission in the Sunnah,when she was only nine years old.Yet one more reason that Mohammed was a self proclaimed prophet,due to his own selfish desires of power,wealth and control.These qualities are not the "spiritual"qualities expected from a true prophet of Yahweh.

The question about St Joseph is not relevant to this discussion.Jospeph would have been older than Mary yes,but not by 50 years,looking at Jewish cultural practices,he probably was 18 or 19.
Also,St Joseph is not held as mankinds role model to follow for all times and places.

Muhammad came for 1400 years ago, the life cycle back then was 40-60, 1 of the reasons people married early. Muhammad married Aisha young so she could carry his lagacy for a long time. 9 year old back than is not 9 year old today. The west which seems to be a role model for you has 10 years of marriage legaly untill 1900 when they made it 14 years old. Today this is looked upon as pedophilia.

I how ever im ready to debate on the moon god issue. Are you still intersted?[/quote]

Ghaith

"Muhammad came for 1400 years ago, the life cycle back then was 40-60, 1 of the reasons people married early. Muhammad married Aisha young so she could carry his lagacy for a long time. 9 year old back than is not 9 year old today. The west which seems to be a role model for you has 10 years of marriage legaly untill 1900 when they made it 14 years old. Today this is looked upon as pedophilia".

It may be true that people did not live as long in Mohammeds time,but as pointed out, Mohammed is held by Allah to be mankinds perfect example to be emulated for all times and places,not just in 7th century Arabia.The Quran is said to be Allahs eternal literal word,therefore should be taken as such by Muslims,if Allah says they are to look to the example of his prophet,to take as their role model throughout their lives,who are they to argue? A nine year old child, is still a nine year old child which ever century you live in,,and will still be damaged phyisically and mentally,by "marrying" and old man.
Mohammeds legacy,shown by the "rightly guided caliphs" was bourn from violence.Aisha herself fought battles with her co-religionists,it was a continous power struggle,culminating with the hostile division between Muslims,still existing today.

Only Muslims are held within this "time warp".They are compelled to follow Allahs instructions and his prophets example without changing any part of them.They are not at liberty to evolve,as and when circumstance dictates,to make for a better way of living.This case of child marriage illustrates what I mean.Muslims are locked into the 7th century mindset,with no excape,consequently millions of children are still being violated,their lives ruined because of a 7th century Arabian,who said he was a prophet.

Conversely,democracy allows for changing man made rules for the betterment of mankind, and man can still live morally in accordance with Gods rules,if you like the Golden Rule,to be at peace with his fellow man.Islamic dogma does not permit this,it commands Muslims to be hostile towards his fellow man, telling them to not take them as friends,to keep away from non Muslims,and even to fight them to make them submit to Allahs rules,because fighting is good for them2:216.

I am afraid you are insulting your own intelligence if you cannot perceive this.Islam is about world domination,similar to they way previous historical tyrants methods.Evil follows the same pattern,it wants to control mind and body,and Islam finds it can do this perfectly with Muslims,because it is in the guise of a religion.

All the evidence for this is in the Quran and Sunnah,all you have to do is read it,as Muslims like to say,with an open mind.

Feel free to state your case for the "moon god issue" when ready.[/quote]

Where good points but Muhammads (saw) time was almost over when he married Aisha, he married her as young as possible to carry his lagacy as far as it could, he knew mankinds would try to corrupt islam, if muslins misunderstood this issue and still marries girls at 9 year old of age Muhammad (pbuh SAW) cannot be hold responisble because he had a reason to marry a 9 year old. Joseph however was not 18-19 he was 90-99, christians are ashamed of this and try to make it less, how every muslims do not hide anything.

If you are intersted in the moon issue i can debunk it very easy as it has been debunked 100 times, if you want you can put your arguments in my open challenge and we can start the debate.

Also if possible maybe you could tell me what your religion is.

Take care

Some muslims might be locked in pre 10th century, but that time is better than todays time. Quran is eternal but the predictions that came true do not repeat it self. Like most people bring up surah 9 which was for a war that has ended with the Pegans.

May allah forgive you.

[frankie]

Ghaith

"Where good points but Muhammads (saw) time was almost over when he married Aisha, he married her as young as possible to carry his lagacy as far as it could, he knew mankinds would try to corrupt islam, if muslins misunderstood this issue and still marries girls at 9 year old of age Muhammad (pbuh SAW) cannot be hold responisble because he had a reason to marry a 9 year old. Joseph however was not 18-19 he was 90-99, christians are ashamed of this and try to make it less, how every muslims do not hide anything.

If you are intersted in the moon issue i can debunk it very easy as it has been debunked 100 times, if you want you can put your arguments in my open challenge and we can start the debate.

Also if possible maybe you could tell me what your religion is."


You mention Mohammed's legacy,can you tell me what that was,how did he achieve it,and how are his followers to do the same?

Why could Mohammed not have married a woman nearer to his own age,he did after all have many occasions when he could have done this,why did he have to choose a child?
As far as I'm aware,Mohammed never had a living male heir given to him by any one of his numerous wives,including Aisha,how did his legacy continue without this?

You are distancing the importance of Mohammeds behaviour by his marrying a child,to the actions Muslims must follow as a consequence of this.You know well,how Muslims revere Mohammed,the very mention of his name by unbelievers, can cause their demise,historical and present day events show this to be true.So,you cannot dismiss Mohammeds example as lightly as you have done.

I would be interested for you to provide evidence that Joseph was 90-99 in age when he married Mary.Please show this on your next posting.If you cannot,it is as I said,Jospeph followed his culteral Jewsish practice,which would mean he married at the very latest 20 years of age.Perhaps some kind FF person,who knows about betrothal practice before Jesus's birth,could confirm or disprove this, providing the link as evidence.

My arguments are not religion based,they are based on facts,so the question about what my religion is, or is not,is irrelevant to any discussion.



I amswered your question on a previous thread,the ball is now in your court.

Whether Islam is true or not depends on one major fact,that is, it has to come from the same source as the Christian and Jewish God, Yahweh.Islamic teachings plus the Sunnah of Mohammed prove without a doubt it does not.The wealth of this evidence is provided daily on this Forum,but for brevitys sake I will give some fundamentals.

The origins of the Islamic Allah lay in pagan worship,Mohammed was born a pagan and died as one,the only god he knew anything about was Hubal,the chief moon god of the Kaaba,where he and his tribe the Quraish, the stewards of the Kaaba,worshipped.Mohammed is said to have destroyed all the pagan idols in the Kaaba,to proclaim there is only one god,BUT he left in situ one remaining pagan idol,the Black Stone,which is still there,to be venerated by Muslims today.This veneration by Muslims, is the same pagan ritual performed by all the pagan Arabs,before during and after Mohammeds time,as are all the others, such as circumambulation,running betwen the two hills,throwing stones and fasting during the sacred months,known as Ramadan.

Pagan moon worship was found in the religion of the Sabeans,an astral religion that worshipped the moon god,and planned their religious rites around the lunar calendar.One such rite was fasting from the crescent moon to cresent moon,a practice familar to Mohammed,which was adopted by him,to give his fabricated "religion" a more authentic face.

Mohammed then,declared his Allah (Al ilah) to be the one god of the universe,which was presumed wrongly, to be the same God as the Christian and Jewish.This basic flaw has decieved tens of millions,and is still doing so,although many are waking up to the facts more,fear is an over-riding factor, in keeping some Muslims still held within this diabolical Islamic grip.

Mohammed was a man of his time,an Arabian desert dweller,used to the harsh conditions the desert meeted out.This in turn made desert people a resilient people,as hard as the desert conditions.

Although Mohammed may have originally been a peaceful,honest man,circumstances were to turn him into an Arabian warlord,intent on killing anyone who disagreed or criticised him,who commanded his followers to fight and kill in the name of his god Allah,to make them submit to his new found "religion".Mohammed found that to raid the passing caravans, to glean their cargos,was a lucrative way to provide himself and his "co-religionists" with the means of "furthering the Islamic cause".The booty would provide the wealth,the women would provide the pleasure,and the control of lands and people were firmly in place,to continue for 1400 years.

This is the premise of the Islamic agenda,to conquer all lands for Allah,to bring all into submission to Allahs rules and regulations,by killing and subjugation.

Conversely,the Jewish and Christian scripture is diametrically opposed to this.Jews and Christians are obliged to follow The Ten Commandments,which forbid all, and everthing islamic teachings advocate and condone.Jesus,who Christians revere as the Son of God,was a man of true peace,who commanded His followers to "love,as I have loved you".His kingdom was not of this world,so therefore he never asked his followers to fight and kill in His name.He commanded his disiples to spread the Good News (The Gospel) throughout the world,baptising all.

Although Islam teaches God has no Son,the Quran contradicts itself so many times,it is more than obvious that it could not come from a divine source.Ony mankind has a habit of contradicting himself.

The evidence is overwhelmingly obvious,the God of the Christian is not the god of the Muslim.

[Ghaith]

Ghaith

"Where good points but Muhammads (saw) time was almost over when he married Aisha, he married her as young as possible to carry his lagacy as far as it could, he knew mankinds would try to corrupt islam, if muslins misunderstood this issue and still marries girls at 9 year old of age Muhammad (pbuh SAW) cannot be hold responisble because he had a reason to marry a 9 year old. Joseph however was not 18-19 he was 90-99, christians are ashamed of this and try to make it less, how every muslims do not hide anything.

If you are intersted in the moon issue i can debunk it very easy as it has been debunked 100 times, if you want you can put your arguments in my open challenge and we can start the debate.

Also if possible maybe you could tell me what your religion is."


You mention Mohammed's legacy,can you tell me what that was,how did he achieve it,and how are his followers to do the same?

Why could Mohammed not have married a woman nearer to his own age,he did after all have many occasions when he could have done this,why did he have to choose a child?
As far as I'm aware,Mohammed never had a living male heir given to him by any one of his numerous wives,including Aisha,how did his legacy continue without this?

You are distancing the importance of Mohammeds behaviour by his marrying a child,to the actions Muslims must follow as a consequence of this.You know well,how Muslims revere Mohammed,the very mention of his name by unbelievers, can cause their demise,historical and present day events show this to be true.So,you cannot dismiss Mohammeds example as lightly as you have done.

I would be interested for you to provide evidence that Joseph was 90-99 in age when he married Mary.Please show this on your next posting.If you cannot,it is as I said,Jospeph followed his culteral Jewsish practice,which would mean he married at the very latest 20 years of age.Perhaps some kind FF person,who knows about betrothal practice before Jesus's birth,could confirm or disprove this, providing the link as evidence.

My arguments are not religion based,they are based on facts,so the question about what my religion is, or is not,is irrelevant to any discussion.



I amswered your question on a previous thread,the ball is now in your court.

Whether Islam is true or not depends on one major fact,that is, it has to come from the same source as the Christian and Jewish God, Yahweh.Islamic teachings plus the Sunnah of Mohammed prove without a doubt it does not.The wealth of this evidence is provided daily on this Forum,but for brevitys sake I will give some fundamentals.

The origins of the Islamic Allah lay in pagan worship,Mohammed was born a pagan and died as one,the only god he knew anything about was Hubal,the chief moon god of the Kaaba,where he and his tribe the Quraish, the stewards of the Kaaba,worshipped.Mohammed is said to have destroyed all the pagan idols in the Kaaba,to proclaim there is only one god,BUT he left in situ one remaining pagan idol,the Black Stone,which is still there,to be venerated by Muslims today.This veneration by Muslims, is the same pagan ritual performed by all the pagan Arabs,before during and after Mohammeds time,as are all the others, such as circumambulation,running betwen the two hills,throwing stones and fasting during the sacred months,known as Ramadan.

Pagan moon worship was found in the religion of the Sabeans,an astral religion that worshipped the moon god,and planned their religious rites around the lunar calendar.One such rite was fasting from the crescent moon to cresent moon,a practice familar to Mohammed,which was adopted by him,to give his fabricated "religion" a more authentic face.

Mohammed then,declared his Allah (Al ilah) to be the one god of the universe,which was presumed wrongly, to be the same God as the Christian and Jewish.This basic flaw has decieved tens of millions,and is still doing so,although many are waking up to the facts more,fear is an over-riding factor, in keeping some Muslims still held within this diabolical Islamic grip.

Mohammed was a man of his time,an Arabian desert dweller,used to the harsh conditions the desert meeted out.This in turn made desert people a resilient people,as hard as the desert conditions.

Although Mohammed may have originally been a peaceful,honest man,circumstances were to turn him into an Arabian warlord,intent on killing anyone who disagreed or criticised him,who commanded his followers to fight and kill in the name of his god Allah,to make them submit to his new found "religion".Mohammed found that to raid the passing caravans, to glean their cargos,was a lucrative way to provide himself and his "co-religionists" with the means of "furthering the Islamic cause".The booty would provide the wealth,the women would provide the pleasure,and the control of lands and people were firmly in place,to continue for 1400 years.

This is the premise of the Islamic agenda,to conquer all lands for Allah,to bring all into submission to Allahs rules and regulations,by killing and subjugation.

Conversely,the Jewish and Christian scripture is diametrically opposed to this.Jews and Christians are obliged to follow The Ten Commandments,which forbid all, and everthing islamic teachings advocate and condone.Jesus,who Christians revere as the Son of God,was a man of true peace,who commanded His followers to "love,as I have loved you".His kingdom was not of this world,so therefore he never asked his followers to fight and kill in His name.He commanded his disiples to spread the Good News (The Gospel) throughout the world,baptising all.

Although Islam teaches God has no Son,the Quran contradicts itself so many times,it is more than obvious that it could not come from a divine source.Ony mankind has a habit of contradicting himself.

The evidence is overwhelmingly obvious,the God of the Christian is not the god of the Muslim.

You bring up to many points at the same time, but lets ignore that.

Muhammad (saw) was far from being a pedophile if you have does toughts, the woman he loved the most was Khadija. She was 40 while he was 25. He didnt remarry until she died. Each of his wife was a special reason to marry. Aicha so se could carry his lagacy, you ask what legacy, his saying (ahadith). He married her at 6 she moved in with him at 9.She was about 18 when he died. At 18 she had what? 40-45 more years to live possible more? That a good amount of time to spread his lagacy.

As for the moon issue, is a hoax going on since the 9th century possibly more.

I dont want to discuss this topic here so will open a new thread challenging you on this issue.

I didnt get your religous belifes maybe you could state them in the thread.

Moon god challenge
http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12110

May allah bless you and forgive you.

[gupsfu]

Muhammad (saw) was far from being a pedophile if you have does toughts, the woman he loved the most was Khadija. She was 40 while he was 25. He didnt remarry until she died. Each of his wife was a special reason to marry. Aicha so se could carry his lagacy, you ask what legacy, his saying (ahadith). He married her at 6 she moved in with him at 9.She was about 18 when he died. At 18 she had what? 40-45 more years to live possible more? That a good amount of time to spread his lagacy.

It's not about how old Aisha was when Muhammad died.

It was all about how old she was when Muhammad married her.

Do you understand, my dear Muslim? Your prophet was a certified pedophile, and thanks for your own admission.

[Ghaith]

Muhammad (saw) was far from being a pedophile if you have does toughts, the woman he loved the most was Khadija. She was 40 while he was 25. He didnt remarry until she died. Each of his wife was a special reason to marry. Aicha so se could carry his lagacy, you ask what legacy, his saying (ahadith). He married her at 6 she moved in with him at 9.She was about 18 when he died. At 18 she had what? 40-45 more years to live possible more? That a good amount of time to spread his lagacy.

It's not about how old Aisha was when Muhammad died.

It was all about how old she was when Muhammad married her.

Do you understand, my dear Muslim? Your prophet was a certified pedophile, and thanks for your own admission.

I am sorry, who are you again? Another christian who wants to challenge the Aisha case?

[ibnjuferi]

Hello Ghaith

You must remember that your god confirmed the previous scriptures. Of course he would as he was the only god and all that is written in the talmud and bible is because Allah willed it. Perhaps you believe that there were more than one god. Do you or do you accept that there always had been one god and that was Allah?

sum

Our god confirmed Torah and The gospel.

Talmud was written by rabbis hundreds of years after Moses time...

The Talmud is well known to be a plagarisation of the Babylonian Talmud, which is written in Syriac language.
Mohamed was fluent in Syriac language, as Arabic derives most of its vocabulary from the Syriac language.
This so-called "illiterate" Mohamed who was an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi was learned the Talmud by-heart
composed his Arabic Quran using the Syriac Talmud plus Syriac Christianity plus Arab folklore.

Also, Talmud is just like your Hadith, which Sunnis use and falsely call "SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET MOHAMED".
Talmud is man-made commentary like the Hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim, which are not from Mohamed but
from the liar called Abu Bakar, who is father of Aisha, who SHIA MUSLIMS say murdered Mohamed, and then
handed the throne of Islam to her father instead of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib, founder of the Shia religion.

So, if Talmud is NOT from Moses so what? Even Muslims interpret Quran using man-made MAZHABS like SHAFIE,
HANAFI, HANBELI, and MALIKI, so what is wrong in Jews interpreting Torah using the man-made Talmud? I see
nothing wrong at all.

The Muslim God confirmed the TORAH and GOSPEL ( injeel) but nowhere in the QURAN does it say MOHAMED is
the last prophet ( NABI) or last RASUL. SUNNIS are not real Muslims but kaafir, according to SHIA ISLAM which
holds IMAM ALI as a RASUL. THE ALAWITE MUSLIMS OF SYRIA hold President Bashar al Assad as a Rasul of Allah
and their Shahada is LA ILAHA ILLA ALI, BASHAR RASULU ALI, which is translated into English as "There is no
god but Ali and Bashar is the Messenger of Ali". We also have BAHAI ISLAM, which claims its founder is the last
of the prophets, or Imam Mahdi.

[frankie]

Ghaith

"You bring up to many points at the same time, but lets ignore that.

Muhammad (saw) was far from being a pedophile if you have does toughts, the woman he loved the most was Khadija. She was 40 while he was 25. He didnt remarry until she died. Each of his wife was a special reason to marry. Aicha so se could carry his lagacy, you ask what legacy, his saying (ahadith). He married her at 6 she moved in with him at 9.She was about 18 when he died. At 18 she had what? 40-45 more years to live possible more? That a good amount of time to spread his lagacy.

As for the moon issue, is a hoax going on since the 9th century possibly more.

I dont want to discuss this topic here so will open a new thread challenging you on this issue."

I didnt get your religous belifes maybe you could state them in the thread.

Moon god challenge
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=12110

Its agreed that Mohammed married an older woman Khadijah,until her death,and then re married,that much is factual,as is the rest about Aisha.But it begs the question,why would the same alleged God of the Christian, sanction a marriage detrimental to a child and society as a whole,which would be lawful for all times and places?

You say Mohammeds legacy was his ahadith,fair enough,how then did he spread his legacy to further the cause of Islam,and how are his followersto do the same by emulating his example?

Put another way,what is the objective of Islam,how was this this objective put into action by Mohammed,and how are his followers to put into action the same objective?

I see no apparent reason for moving this to another thread,but will do so only to continue with this discussion.

[Ghaith]

Hello Ghaith

You must remember that your god confirmed the previous scriptures. Of course he would as he was the only god and all that is written in the talmud and bible is because Allah willed it. Perhaps you believe that there were more than one god. Do you or do you accept that there always had been one god and that was Allah?

sum

Our god confirmed Torah and The gospel.

Talmud was written by rabbis hundreds of years after Moses time...

The Talmud is well known to be a plagarisation of the Babylonian Talmud, which is written in Syriac language.
Mohamed was fluent in Syriac language, as Arabic derives most of its vocabulary from the Syriac language.
This so-called "illiterate" Mohamed who was an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi was learned the Talmud by-heart
composed his Arabic Quran using the Syriac Talmud plus Syriac Christianity plus Arab folklore.

Also, Talmud is just like your Hadith, which Sunnis use and falsely call "SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET MOHAMED".
Talmud is man-made commentary like the Hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim, which are not from Mohamed but
from the liar called Abu Bakar, who is father of Aisha, who SHIA MUSLIMS say murdered Mohamed, and then
handed the throne of Islam to her father instead of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib, founder of the Shia religion.

So, if Talmud is NOT from Moses so what? Even Muslims interpret Quran using man-made MAZHABS like SHAFIE,
HANAFI, HANBELI, and MALIKI, so what is wrong in Jews interpreting Torah using the man-made Talmud? I see
nothing wrong at all.

The Muslim God confirmed the TORAH and GOSPEL ( injeel) but nowhere in the QURAN does it say MOHAMED is
the last prophet ( NABI) or last RASUL. SUNNIS are not real Muslims but kaafir, according to SHIA ISLAM which
holds IMAM ALI as a RASUL. THE ALAWITE MUSLIMS OF SYRIA hold President Bashar al Assad as a Rasul of Allah
and their Shahada is LA ILAHA ILLA ALI, BASHAR RASULU ALI, which is translated into English as "There is no
god but Ali and Bashar is the Messenger of Ali". We also have BAHAI ISLAM, which claims its founder is the last
of the prophets, or Imam Mahdi.

Jews belive in the talmud, and so they belive in what is written in it. It was not written by Moses that not a factor here. Them beliving in it is.

First of Shia is a minority their opionions does not count what they think, Muhammad died of food potion or high fever. What the shias say is ussess.
Second

WHy do you keep bringing up shias? They are not muslims.

Muhammad is not the last prophet?

33:40
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Im not sure what your trying to say, but shias words are not any valid sources to bring up.

[ygalg]

It was not written by Moses that not a factor here.

you're correct it was written late by other men (rabbis) although earlier to koran.

of the famous Talmudic quote

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.
- Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a

[Ghaith]

It was not written by Moses that not a factor here.

you're correct it was written late by other men (rabbis) although earlier to koran.

of the famous Talmudic quote

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.
- Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 37a

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.(5:32)


The holy quran says We decreed upon the Children of Israel. What Holy Quran al Karim is saying is that Allah decreed upon the children of Isreal and he did this via a prophet What the jews how ever did was memorize what this Prophet said and wrote it in the Talmud. But we follow the same rules as the children of isreal so killing for us is same as killing for you. But the talmud being unlogical, why?

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."
Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."
Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.


Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.


So where we at now Ygalg?

Ygalg have you reached this point yet? Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.