Derren Brown Instant Conversion

[Robert]

Is belief in God comparable to some hypnotic state? Are ministers, clergymen, were Jesus and Muhammad some kind of hypnotizers? Derren Brown's experiment seem to suggest that.

Derren Brown Instant Conversion Part 1



Derren Brown Instant Conversion Part 2

[iffo]

excellent

[CuteCoot]

Given that he used his powers to "deconvert" his subjects, you could ask the same thing of people who convince others of atheism or agnosticism. There is an assumption in all this that the conversion was irrational (code for "bad") while the deconversion was rational (code for "good"). In fact, both occurred under the same conditions.

[pr126]

I do not think that hypnosis is a good comparison.

It is more like long term brainwashing, programming from early childhood. It is intended to be permanent.

Leaving a religion is self deprogramming, occurs gradually over a long period of time, years even, normally it is very unpleasant, full of doubt, often from the realization that they were fooled, lied to. Anger too, about the lost years in unreality, and shame.
Religions discourage questioning and critical thinking. Muhammad knew that. See Quran 5:101-102.

Yes, I know that religious people will vehemently disagree, they will want to hold on to their delusion. It's comfortable, it makes them emotionally secure.

I have no problem with what people believe , as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me, or denigrate me, for not believing the same.

Keep your religions to yourselves, I want no part of it. Religion should be personal, between you, and your chosen deity.
But that is not what religion is about, is it?

Logic tells me, that if a certain religion was "TRUE", everybody on the planet would believe the same automatically, without programming, coercion or lies. But since there are so many different religions, geographically and culturally diverse, there cannot possibly be a universal god.

If anybody asserts that they all worship the same god, but in a different manner, then that god is a psychopathic schizophrenic mental case, unworthy of respect.

[pr126]

Given that he used his powers to "deconvert" his subjects, you could ask the same thing of people who convince others of atheism or agnosticism. There is an assumption in all this that the conversion was irrational (code for "bad") while the deconversion was rational (code for "good"). In fact, both occurred under the same conditions.

Atheist do not "convince" theist to leave the religion.
What they actually do, is kick start the thinking process, and the theist may or may not begin to question, to reason, to find answers.
It needs courage, persistence, and intelligence from the theist. Very few manage it.

[CuteCoot]

Given that he used his powers to "deconvert" his subjects, you could ask the same thing of people who convince others of atheism or agnosticism. There is an assumption in all this that the conversion was irrational (code for "bad") while the deconversion was rational (code for "good"). In fact, both occurred under the same conditions.

Atheist do not "convince" theist to leave the religion.
What they actually do, is kick start the thinking process, and the theist may or may not begin to question, to reason, to find answers.
It needs courage, persistence, and intelligence from the theist. Very few manage it.

In your previous post you wrote:

Yes, I know that religious people will vehemently disagree, they will want to hold on to their delusion. It's comfortable, it makes them emotionally secure.

I have no problem with what people believe , as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me, or denigrate me, for not believing the same.

Can you see that in your first paragraph here you have denigrated religious people by characterising their belief as "delusion" - which in a psychiatric context equates to psychotic behaviour - and their motives as a need to feel "emotionally secure" - which suggests they are infantile or not "grown up"? Can you see an element of persuasion in that? An invitation to "grow up" and come join me in my enlightenment, my correct approach to reality?

Then, in the second paragraph, you condescendingly allow religious people to inhabit the earth so long as they don't engage in the kind of behaviour that you have quite precisely engaged in viz a viz themselves in the very previous breath you took.

The same kind of irony is present in the conversion issue but if you can't see it in the barefaced simplicity of the above then it would be a waste of time for me to continue typing here.

[pr126]

As far as I know, no human in the history of mankind was able to prove that gods are real, a fact, and not relying on faith and belief.

Until someone can, all religions are deemed to be delusions. Wishful thinking. Hope.
Yes, a need to feel emotionally secure. A comfort blanket for grown ups.

To others, religion serves as a weapon of war. Or a control device. Or a tool for oppression. To be a judge, jury and executioner in proxy.

Or to make a fortune from gullible believers. (Televangelists)