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Insulting religion

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:25 am
by pr126

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 7:13 pm
by tejpat
i feel the same way. All abrahmic religions works on guilt+fear mechanism, and if that doesn't work they go further to any extent to convert and increase their religious gang.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:40 am
by Yohan
tejpat wrote:i feel the same way. All abrahmic religions works on guilt+fear mechanism, and if that doesn't work they go further to any extent to convert and increase their religious gang.
How about insulting Hinduism?

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:57 am
by tejpat
Yohan wrote:
tejpat wrote:i feel the same way. All abrahmic religions works on guilt+fear mechanism, and if that doesn't work they go further to any extent to convert and increase their religious gang.
How about insulting Hinduism?
why not ? i don't get threats of ETERNAL ROASTING from my belief system unlike abrahmic religions where followers are scared to sh!t.
i wont let go anyone who/which is wrong, unlike you who keeps on neglecting worst side of christianity.
you can't see an illegitimate child born out of extra marital affair.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:03 pm
by Yohan
tejpat wrote:
Yohan wrote:
tejpat wrote:i feel the same way. All abrahmic religions works on guilt+fear mechanism, and if that doesn't work they go further to any extent to convert and increase their religious gang.
How about insulting Hinduism?
why not ? i don't get threats of ETERNAL ROASTING from my belief system unlike abrahmic religions where followers are scared to sh!t.
i wont let go anyone who/which is wrong, unlike you who keeps on neglecting worst side of christianity.
you can't see an illegitimate child born out of extra marital affair.
You lie just like this 'iffo' guy. The only difference is that iffo lies about Islam and you about Hinduism. Isn't it just only a couple of years ago that Hindus like you attacked Christians in the Indian state of Karnataka, because some Christians spread the word that one Hindu deity Urvasi was a prostitute? Don't deny this. If you do, I will produce proof.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:46 pm
by LCD
He has every right to insult my religion, specifically, if he can prove Christianity breeds hatred, racism, tells us to murder, teaches us to kill others--etc. What i note however, is that the majority of people like him have no knowledge of my religion. His issue is merely a hatred of something he knows nothing about.

As opposed to Ali sina, who quite clearly KNOWS Islam, inside and out, and has every right to attack ISlam, with evidence.

Now, as to Christianity, do the majority of Athiests have a legitimate grief with Christianity or do they FEEL intense hatred toward it based on nothing?

He has every right to say what he wants. I have the right to refute him, but i notice no athiest really wants to talk about the issue, they want to say what they have to say, and want to be right.

I on the other hand note its an athiests right not to believe in God if that is what they wish--no christian should try to convert them, but in the same instance, NO Athiest should attack Christians with the intent of converting them. I think that's fair. The problem is no athiest really wants to move on--they want to destroy Christianity and God.

Notice he didn't mention Jews? How Cowardly.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:24 am
by tejpat
Yohan wrote: You lie just like this 'iffo' guy. The only difference is that iffo lies about Islam and you about Hinduism. Isn't it just only a couple of years ago that Hindus like you attacked Christians in the Indian state of Karnataka, because some Christians spread the word that one Hindu deity Urvasi was a prostitute? Don't deny this. If you do, I will produce proof.
and you lie about christianity.
you christians have habit of breaking Laws and then playing victim all the time. let me elaborate that incidence so that it can make you understand better.
In India, there is BAN on proselytism. and christians have worst habit of lying and chrating over here to fetch some converts only to show it to their masters in abroad.
they had been breaking Laws in karnataka. christians, in india, are very well known for spreading false information and duping natives to convert to new religion.
so, like in UK where minority-muslims are pleased to stuff some votes, minority christians were not taken in account for breaking Indian Law over proselytism by cheat. and on top of that those fliers ignited outrage.
many complains were done but no actions. so outraged Hindus done destruction to their property.
I totally agree that is not good but then what you have to tell about those CHEATER christians who sent those false fliers ?

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:23 pm
by LCD
So, your last post has what to do with the thead, exactly?

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:46 am
by Intelligent lad
Everybody has the right to criticize Hinduism. Hindus should never demand respect from any group. Nor Hindus are obliged to give respect to any group. ' Respect my religion' is the slogan of terrorists.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:04 am
by sword_of_truth
He has every right to insult my religion, specifically, if he can prove Christianity breeds hatred, racism, tells us to murder, teaches us to kill others--etc.
Not just if he can prove anything. He just has the right. You can say what you want, whether it has any truth to it, or not as long as you don't directly advocate violence.

What i note however, is that the majority of people like him have no knowledge of my religion. His issue is merely a hatred of something he knows nothing about.
That is simply incorrect. The great majority of atheists I know are ex-Christians and therefore know the religion as well as Christians do, by definition, since they were. And, it's not unusual for them to know Christianity better than the average Christian. That may or may not be true of Pat Condell. I don't know. What appears to be true is that he might not be giving SOME Christians enough credit. But I suspect it's not an issue of knowledge. I definitely see where he's coming from, and I enjoy his videos, but he's a more aggressive than I am, for sure. I suppose where I differ from him is that I don't intentionally try to insult religion, as an end in itself. I just ending up doing it in the course of speaking my mind on the matter because I don't shy away from speaking the truth. Sort of like telling a fat lady that she's fat. I don't say it as an insult, just as a statement. I say it because I don't want to have to keep my mouth shut about something that it's natural for me to speak about. In the case of the fat lady, I don't have to say anything about it because it's not something that affects my life so much.

As opposed to Ali sina, who quite clearly KNOWS Islam, inside and out, and has every right to attack Islam, with evidence.
He knows Islam pretty well, but he gets things wrong sometimes. And that's why I say you don't have to always get things right in order to have the right to say them.

Now, as to Christianity, do the majority of Athiests have a legitimate grief with Christianity or do they FEEL intense hatred toward it based on nothing?
This issue is more complicated than your questions seem to assume. In my own case, I don't hate Christianity. But I do intensely hate certain specific things WITHIN Christianity. Not the religion as a whole. That could cause some confusion. For example, the idea that God will torture people eternally or sit by and let it happen. How can anyone in their right mind NOT hate that? It's disgusting. Now, you'll say that Christianity doesn't teach that. But some Christians DO say that, and my issue is with them. And I'm not too pleased with the Bible for allowing them to make their case. But I'm pretty much okay with people who think I am going to burn in hell, never the less--willing to overlook it and forgive. I scorn that particular belief, but I am willing to overlook it. I may SOUND like I am full of hatred towards those people, but I'd go camping with them. No problem. I just think they are completely bonkers on that one particular issue, and that may make me sound pretty harsh when I talk about it, but it's really just that one thing. The only punishment for these crimes of the heart against their fellow human beings (being completely nonchalant about their eternal TORTURE) is my harsh criticism on that particular issue.

Islam is different.
He has every right to say what he wants. I have the right to refute him, but i notice no athiest really wants to talk about the issue, they want to say what they have to say, and want to be right.
Everyone wants to be right. But they do want to talk about it. You were just too busy wanting to be right yourself to notice.
I on the other hand note its an athiests right not to believe in God if that is what they wish--no christian should try to convert them, but in the same instance, NO Athiest should attack Christians with the intent of converting them. I think that's fair.
That's not even necessary. If the Christian believes what he believes, then, as long as they are not too obnoxious about it, I don't mind them trying to convert us. If what they believed was true, it would be a nice thing to try to do. Personally, I don't like trying to convert people to atheism directly. I just like to argue about it. I have no intention of trying to convert anyone specifically, just to put forward my arguments. But there are certain sacrifices that have to be made when leaving a religion, and I won't turn a blind eye to those. I'm against people even leaving Islam if they have not thought it through carefully.

The problem is no athiest really wants to move on--they want to destroy Christianity and God.
God is not there to destroy, as far as we can tell. I am rather indifferent towards the continued existence of "Christianity", as such. I don't care if it lives or dies. What I care about is more specific trends WITHIN Christianity. Like creationism. That is harmful to science, and, yes, it would be an admirable accomplishment if it were destroyed.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:32 am
by tejpat
sword_of_truth wrote: Like creationism. That is harmful to science, and, yes, it would be an admirable accomplishment if it were destroyed.
if you destroy creationism, you destroy whole christian dogma, for that matter any other dogma.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:51 am
by sword_of_truth
sword_of_truth wrote: Like creationism. That is harmful to science, and, yes, it would be an admirable accomplishment if it were destroyed.


if you destroy creationism, you destroy whole christian dogma, for that matter any other dogma.
I disagree, and here I mean creationism as the denial of evolution. However problematic evolution may be for religion, the evidence for evolution is far stronger than the potential theological issues it may raise if it is accepted. To deny evolution is to make an objectively false claim. But evolution does not disprove Christianity if one is willing to accept the idea that the Bible contains stories from God, rather than an accurate description of history. Christianity could still possibly be true--it's just that there isn't any good evidence for its far-fetched claims. So, on the one hand, we have the fundamentalists making completely absurd and false claims, and on the other hand, we have the liberal Christians, making far-fetched and unwarranted, but MUCH smaller claims. The liberal Christians are INFINITELY more rational than those silly people claiming that all the species (millions of them--including kangaroos and koalas from Australia, which somehow must have ended up in the middle east) were preserved on the ark. Their beliefs may still be absurd, but whole orders of magnitude less so than their fundamentalist counterparts.

So, no evolution doesn't destroy Christianity. Accepting it only lowers the absurdity level of the claims in question by colossal proportions.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:15 am
by tejpat
sword_of_truth wrote:
tejpat wrote:
sword_of_truth wrote: Like creationism. That is harmful to science, and, yes, it would be an admirable accomplishment if it were destroyed.

if you destroy creationism, you destroy whole christian dogma, for that matter any other dogma.
I disagree, and here I mean creationism as the denial of evolution. However problematic evolution may be for religion, the evidence for evolution is far stronger than the potential theological issues it may raise if it is accepted. To deny evolution is to make an objectively false claim. But evolution does not disprove Christianity if one is willing to accept the idea that the Bible contains stories from God, rather than an accurate description of history. Christianity could still possibly be true--it's just that there isn't any good evidence for its far-fetched claims. So, on the one hand, we have the fundamentalists making completely absurd and false claims, and on the other hand, we have the liberal Christians, making far-fetched and unwarranted, but MUCH smaller claims. The liberal Christians are INFINITELY more rational than those silly people claiming that all the species (millions of them--including kangaroos and koalas from Australia, which somehow must have ended up in the middle east) were preserved on the ark. Their beliefs may still be absurd, but whole orders of magnitude less so than their fundamentalist counterparts.

So, no evolution doesn't destroy Christianity. Accepting it only lowers the absurdity level of the claims in question by colossal proportions.
in christianity, humans were created ( especially, woman was created from rib of man !!!!!!!!!! ) in a dangerous garden having talking snake with poisonous apples ( a very rare variety ) by a loving god.
in evolution, humans evolved from primary beings.
so you see, evolution destroys christianity.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:28 am
by Wootah
I like that guy from a distance. What strikes me is how religious he became in 3 minutes.

As a creationist Christian I tend to agree with Tejpat on the impact of evolution on Christianity. I am not sure really why Tejpat feels other religions and spiritual beliefs aren't defeated by a purely material mechanical process of matter evolving over billions of years. What I am sure of is that we can only discuss evolution today because of the work Christians did that only occurred due to the philosophical underpinnings Christianity gives to a society. Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim societies as well as animist and whatever else have nothing to do with the growth of science. That to me is the most damning evidence of the falsity of those belief systems in general we have.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:44 am
by tejpat
Wootah wrote:I like that guy from a distance. What strikes me is how religious he became in 3 minutes.

As a creationist Christian I tend to agree with Tejpat on the impact of evolution on Christianity. I am not sure really why Tejpat feels other religions and spiritual beliefs aren't defeated by a purely material mechanical process of matter evolving over billions of years.
did you see what I wrote few posts ago, try reading it again. ( especially he bold part )
tejpat wrote: if you destroy creationism, you destroy whole christian dogma, for that matter any other dogma.
Wootah wrote: What I am sure of is that we can only discuss evolution today because of the work Christians did that only occurred due to the philosophical underpinnings Christianity gives to a society. Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim societies as well as animist and whatever else have nothing to do with the growth of science. That to me is the most damning evidence of the falsity of those belief systems in general we have.
two things I have to say :
firstly, there are many important discoveries and invention ( some of them are primary ),created in Hindu-Buddhist socities, which you are un-aware of.
try searching on net for that matter.
secondly, I thank whole western culture for all scientific inventions and creations with which I am able to post here. but i beg to differ slightly, early scientists were punished heavily by church for discoveries, I guess you would have come up with his name, so only in present era, you'll find many scientists are out of any religion. they ignored christian values.
I am not implying that all scientists were Athiests or church stopped all discoveries. In fact, church allowed only those discoveries to happen which didn't affect their dogma, rather church can use that to facilitate their goal-mission.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:04 pm
by Wootah
tejpat wrote:
Wootah wrote:I like that guy from a distance. What strikes me is how religious he became in 3 minutes.

As a creationist Christian I tend to agree with Tejpat on the impact of evolution on Christianity. I am not sure really why Tejpat feels other religions and spiritual beliefs aren't defeated by a purely material mechanical process of matter evolving over billions of years.
did you see what I wrote few posts ago, try reading it again. ( especially he bold part )
tejpat wrote: if you destroy creationism, you destroy whole christian dogma, for that matter any other dogma.
Wootah wrote: What I am sure of is that we can only discuss evolution today because of the work Christians did that only occurred due to the philosophical underpinnings Christianity gives to a society. Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim societies as well as animist and whatever else have nothing to do with the growth of science. That to me is the most damning evidence of the falsity of those belief systems in general we have.
two things I have to say :
firstly, there are many important discoveries and invention ( some of them are primary ),created in Hindu-Buddhist socities, which you are un-aware of.
try searching on net for that matter.
secondly, I thank whole western culture for all scientific inventions and creations with which I am able to post here. but i beg to differ slightly, early scientists were punished heavily by church for discoveries, I guess you would have come up with his name, so only in present era, you'll find many scientists are out of any religion. they ignored christian values.
I am not implying that all scientists were Athiests or church stopped all discoveries. In fact, church allowed only those discoveries to happen which didn't affect their dogma, rather church can use that to facilitate their goal-mission.
No I missed that, glad we agree.
firstly, there are many important discoveries and invention ( some of them are primary ),created in Hindu-Buddhist socities, which you are un-aware of.
All societies have inventions. None of them ever led to science outside of one cultural context.
secondly, I thank whole western culture for all scientific inventions and creations with which I am able to post here. but i beg to differ slightly, early scientists were punished heavily by church for discoveries, I guess you would have come up with his name, so only in present era, you'll find many scientists are out of any religion. they ignored christian values.
I think the truth of that claim is far different. Mostly in Europe you had a clash with the aristolean cosmology and the copernican/galilean cosmology. And what you find is that the church keeps committing the same mistake then as now, it doesn't just trust scripture. Instead the church like most secular believers believed ancient greek thought and today secular atheist thought. Same old.
I am not implying that all scientists were Athiests or church stopped all discoveries. In fact, church allowed only those discoveries to happen which didn't affect their dogma, rather church can use that to facilitate their goal-mission.
Again you would have to cite proof. Start with Galileo as that is usually the best stereotype for those claims.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:53 pm
by tejpat
Wootah wrote:All societies have inventions. None of them ever led to science outside of one cultural context.
still your not aware of it. at least give it a few seconds.
Wootah wrote:I think the truth of that claim is far different. Mostly in Europe you had a clash with the aristolean cosmology and the copernican/galilean cosmology. And what you find is that the church keeps committing the same mistake then as now, it doesn't just trust scripture. Instead the church like most secular believers believed ancient greek thought and today secular atheist thought. Same old.
church, back then, was no different then dictator regiment. it had full authority of everything.
the difference in today's world is that they have ignored what scriptures have ordered them to do, unlike some muslims who in real cross amputate a thief's limbs and follow strictly their scriptural orders.
Like for eg, according to Deuteronomy 17, if any believer worships other gods then he/she must put to death by stoning him.
now just see how many believers have worshiped other god i.e converted, and yet believers don't kill them by throwing stones, unlike muslims, so they have ignored those orders = didn't follow their own scriptures.
( I had argued on Deu 17 with someone, I then realized that it doesn't orders to kill athiests but still it orders to kill someone by primitive means, stoning, which he didn't mind to notice and was happy to say his scriptures spared at least athiests.)
Wootah wrote:Again you would have to cite proof. Start with Galileo as that is usually the best stereotype for those claims.
well, its like a thief in court room says, but i gave lots of gifts to my grandpa, grandma, nieces, nephews. I am sorry, but we are here to make allegations and crimes that are committed.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:45 pm
by sword_of_truth
in christianity, humans were created ( especially, woman was created from rib of man !!!!!!!!!! ) in a dangerous garden having talking snake with poisonous apples ( a very rare variety ) by a loving god.
in evolution, humans evolved from primary beings.
so you see, evolution destroys christianity.
If so, then millions of people who call themselves Christians are not Christians according to you. I don't see the point in insisting that Christianity demands a literal interpretation of the bible by definition. Even the Catholic church itself accepts evolution, in the sense that they say it's not a problem to believe in it.

Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:33 pm
by tejpat
sword_of_truth wrote:
in christianity, humans were created ( especially, woman was created from rib of man !!!!!!!!!! ) in a dangerous garden having talking snake with poisonous apples ( a very rare variety ) by a loving god.
in evolution, humans evolved from primary beings.
so you see, evolution destroys christianity.
If so, then millions of people who call themselves Christians are not Christians according to you. I don't see the point in insisting that Christianity demands a literal interpretation of the bible by definition. Even the Catholic church itself accepts evolution, in the sense that they say it's not a problem to believe in it.
I am not claiming that christinas who believe in evolution are not christians, i guess they ignore what bible say.
Creationism = god created man and then made woman out of man's rib
Evolution = Evovling from Great Ape into Humans
they both are clearly contradictory.
anyone who agrees with evolution while still being christian is nothing but a hypocrite.
now about the catholic church, explain me how evolution and creationism can be put on same table because creationism clearly says woman was made out of man's rib which is totally wrong in the eye's of evolution.



Re: Insulting religion

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:14 pm
by Skenderbeg
tejpat wrote:
sword_of_truth wrote:
in christianity, humans were created ( especially, woman was created from rib of man !!!!!!!!!! ) in a dangerous garden having talking snake with poisonous apples ( a very rare variety ) by a loving god.
in evolution, humans evolved from primary beings.
so you see, evolution destroys christianity.
If so, then millions of people who call themselves Christians are not Christians according to you. I don't see the point in insisting that Christianity demands a literal interpretation of the bible by definition. Even the Catholic church itself accepts evolution, in the sense that they say it's not a problem to believe in it.
I am not claiming that christinas who believe in evolution are not christians, i guess they ignore what bible say.
Creationism = god created man and then made woman out of man's rib
Evolution = Evovling from Great Ape into Humans
they both are clearly contradictory.
anyone who agrees with evolution while still being christian is nothing but a hypocrite.now about the catholic church, explain me how evolution and creationism can be put on same table because creationism clearly says woman was made out of man's rib which is totally wrong in the eye's of evolution.


You're proving LCD point that people like you are just Christian haters and it comes through clear on most of your posts i been reading here. Again you attacking Christians who believes in evolution as "hypocrites" because the Bible says women came from mans rib, and again thats from the OT and do you say the same thing for Jews ? or just Christians ? I think i know the answer to that. Jews seem to have no problem reading their holy book and still believing in their faith and bible even though the bible tells them women was created from mans rib., will you attack Jews as well now ?