Why are Jews never asked to defend the old testement?

[Sten]

@ sten


you dont want to know really sten,ive told you about corruption within the temple,sacrafices and Christ.if you dont hold an understanding you will never get it.if you have no interest,you will never get it.if its not there for you to see.then so be it.i cannot explain any more in depth if you cannot get to grips with what you have been shown already.lol.

Your arguments are weak and flawed, but instead of accepting this and maybe examining the reasons WHY your arguments are weak and flawed, you convince yourself that it's all my fault, and that there must be something wrong with me.

Well Paxi, I am certainly different from you - I was never indoctrinated with religion as a child, while you were. I was never taught to accept absurdities as fact, while you were. Children think Big Bird from Sesame Street is real, indoctrinating them with religion is easy and it usually guarantees life-long followers. If religion stopped indoctrinating children and let them make their own minds up when they were old enough, it would die out within a generation.

you are playing the advocate for the devil.so what is the point?i dont want to go any further really.its a waste of time.some body who is interested maybe but not you.we have not scratched the surface and you are struggling to comprehend it.

I'm not struggling with anything. What you percieve as "struggling" is your own failing. Don't blame me because you can't properly defend your absurd beliefs. The questions I ask are very relevant, but you don't want to explore further because the more we talk about it, the more ridiculous it makes your religion look.

on peterpin..

From what I can see every Christian has their own idea of what god is, they all think they are correct, and yet most of them believe something very different from what their religion actually teaches. Peterpin, for example, seems to think that the fires of hell are "allegorical" and not literal. Is he correct, or is the Christian who believes in a literal fiery hell correct? You tell me.

100% he is correct.

Is he? 100% huh? Could you show me where in the Bible it tells you to take some parts as 100% non-literal? Because it seems to me that people make up their own minds based on what kind of upbringing they've had. Americans tend to believe in a literal place of torment and eternal torture, whereas the British like a more touchy-feely god where they sweep all that nasty OT stuff under the rug.

How would you argue against a Christian who claimed that the fires of hell are real? What makes him wrong and Peterpin right? Neither of you have any facts or evidence to back up what you say, it just comes down to who can shout the loudest.

[ygalg]

...

instead spamming the forum, how about you engage in favor of your islamic god Muhammad?

[paxi christi]

@ sten

Your arguments are weak and flawed, but instead of accepting this and maybe examining the reasons WHY your arguments are weak and flawed, you convince yourself that it's all my fault, and that there must be something wrong with me.

Well Paxi, I am certainly different from you - I was never indoctrinated with religion as a child, while you were. I was never taught to accept absurdities as fact, while you were. Children think Big Bird from Sesame Street is real, indoctrinating them with religion is easy and it usually guarantees life-long followers. If religion stopped indoctrinating children and let them make their own minds up when they were old enough, it would die out within a generation.

in the first paragraph you have said my answer is weak and flawed.then you play the VICTIM card.fpmsl ...sten i thought you was more man than boy.so i am wrong at times.lololol,playing the victim card eh.well that has dumbfounded me,it really has.all the aggressive talk you give from the key board playing the big un.lolol.you big baby,grow up..


on the second paragraph you mention as a child in indoctrination... how do you know i was.how old do you think i was when i accepted my faith?

what about the grown ups(adults) who except the faith,there are millions world wide,yearly... what you have said holds no water at all.this is my point.you dont want to know you just destroy people of any faith..sad really.

what has people of god done to you that makes you angry with people who believe in god?
or is it just pure hate?or bigotry?or both?

I'm not struggling with anything. What you percieve as "struggling" is your own failing. Don't blame me because you can't properly defend your absurd beliefs. The questions I ask are very relevant, but you don't want to explore further because the more we talk about it, the more ridiculous it makes your religion look.

yes you are because you copy and paste all your posts.the ones you dont copy and paste show your non knowlege of my faith/god/religion. it really does.but that is not a bad thing at all.just dont tell me what im suposed to believe when you dont believe... isnt that ironic or would some call it HYPOCRITICAL?..

now this has lot its way from the title of the topic..

but it always gets that way because you have no other way of going about things.you cant stay on topic you have to change or twist it so it fits you bill and not the topic..lololol.

dont come back with those little baby answers,you are indoctrinated,blah,blah,blah.it makes you look stupid in front of joe public.

any way the last one about peterpin..... he is right...

now lets talk about the topic if you could you are boring me endlessly. go on then play that card,you know the one were you say,is that because ive won, you cant defend your faith. pmsl..go on play it for me....

[manfred]

...

instead spamming the forum, how about you engage in favor of your islamic god Muhammad?

Please try not to respond to or even quote to spammers. It makes the removal very awkward.

If find you one, pressing the report button is always good.

Apologies we seem to get more than usual of late, because we removed the IP ban list as it cause other problems. Please be patient, it will get better, but may take a while.

[ygalg]

Please try not to respond to or even quote to spammers. It makes the removal very awkward.

If find you one, pressing the report button is always good.

Apologies we seem to get more than usual of late, because we removed the IP ban list as it cause other problems. Please be patient, it will get better, but may take a while.

I understand. I tried to insert a little sense to this second time spammer.

[Sten]

in the first paragraph you have said my answer is weak and flawed.then you play the VICTIM card.fpmsl ...sten i thought you was more man than boy.so i am wrong at times.lololol,playing the victim card eh.well that has dumbfounded me,it really has.all the aggressive talk you give from the key board playing the big un.lolol.you big baby,grow up..

lol, goading me will not distract me, dude. Ad hominem is just a waste of time. It just makes you look immature and desperate.

on the second paragraph you mention as a child in indoctrination... how do you know i was.how old do you think i was when i accepted my faith?

Aren't you a British Catholic? In Britain most Catholics are born, not converted. Chances are your family is Catholic too. If you're Catholic you would have been confirmed at around 7 years old. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You know how the old Jesuit saying goes: Give me the child until he is seven and I'll give you the man.

what about the grown ups(adults) who except the faith,there are millions world wide,yearly... what you have said holds no water at all.this is my point.you dont want to know you just destroy people of any faith..sad really.

What about them? Religion could not sustain itself on adult converts alone. I would bet that there is not one religion with a higher conversion rate than birth rate.

what has people of god done to you that makes you angry with people who believe in god?
or is it just pure hate?or bigotry?or both?

I don't think I've been bigoted or hateful - but I guess I have been rude. I'm sorry and I'll try to be more civil so the discussion is more fun for all involved. In return you could answer some of the arguments I've made.

I'm not struggling with anything. What you percieve as "struggling" is your own failing. Don't blame me because you can't properly defend your absurd beliefs. The questions I ask are very relevant, but you don't want to explore further because the more we talk about it, the more ridiculous it makes your religion look.

yes you are because you copy and paste all your posts.the ones you dont copy and paste show your non knowlege of my faith/god/religion. it really does.but that is not a bad thing at all.just dont tell me what im suposed to believe when you dont believe... isnt that ironic or would some call it HYPOCRITICAL?..

All my posts are my own words, I don't copy and paste anything.

You don't know my beliefs, because I thought about them and came up with them myself. There's no book you can consult that will tell you what I am allowed to believe and disbelieve.

All you know is that I am an atheist. That tells you essentially nothing except that I believe in one fewer god than you do. We are both atheists when it comes to Zeus, Allah, Odin, Loki, Mithra, Ra, Jupiter, etc. Why don't you believe in any of those gods? If you are honest with yourself, you'll realize that it's the area and time period in which you live that determines your religion. A genuine and perfect god would be able to spread his influence without having to rely on flawed humans to do the job for him.

I find it weird and fascinating that people are fed a template of beliefs and values before they are old enough to properly consider them, and spend their whole lives working on maintaining those beliefs whilst shutting out everything else.

now this has lot its way from the title of the topic..

but it always gets that way because you have no other way of going about things.you cant stay on topic you have to change or twist it so it fits you bill and not the topic..lololol.

dont come back with those little baby answers,you are indoctrinated,blah,blah,blah.it makes you look stupid in front of joe public.

any way the last one about peterpin..... he is right...

So instead of answering my question you've decided to dedicate an entire post to complaining about my character. That makes YOU look stupid in front of Joe Public.

It would make you look smarter if you dedicated energy into answering my skepticism. What makes you more right about hell than a Christian who believes in Hellfire? How can you say you and Peter are 100% right when you can't even come up with anything Biblical to back it up? What would you say to a Christian who insisted that non-Christians burn in fire for eternity?

now lets talk about the topic if you could you are boring me endlessly. go on then play that card,you know the one were you say,is that because ive won, you cant defend your faith. pmsl..go on play it for me....

[/quote]
It's hard not to play that card, you're practically begging for it. You've written an entire post having a good old whinge about me, without actually answering any of my points. Why are you here? What do you get out of this discussion? Wouldn't you enjoy yourself more if you put in some effort and tried to counter what I am saying about your religion? When it comes to apologetics you are doing a terrible job. Come on Paxi work your brain, think a bit, it's good for you.

[paxi christi]

@ sten


Why are Jews never asked to defend the old testement?

that is the title of the topic.now do we go on this or start a new one?

i did say stay on topic,and you have not.that proves my point.you dont answer the topic,you wonder, constantly sten.

lol, goading me will not distract me, dude. Ad hominem is just a waste of time. It just makes you look immature and desperate.

distract you?you cant stay on topic,then what is distracting you from staying on topic???

Aren't you a British Catholic? In Britain most Catholics are born, not converted. Chances are your family is Catholic too. If you're Catholic you would have been confirmed at around 7 years old. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You know how the old Jesuit saying goes: Give me the child until he is seven and I'll give you the man.

yes iam.

yes they are,some lapsed and some theist now.some playing at being atheist too.(note playing).

if brought up as a child,yes.

you are not wrong.

You know how the old Jesuit saying goes: Give me the child until he is seven and I'll give you the man. i know this very well... note how it ends in man from boy...

What about them? Religion could not sustain itself on adult converts alone. I would bet that there is not one religion with a higher conversion rate than birth rate.

sten i was pointing out that you keep banging your drum about brainwashed from child hood.atheist convert to different faiths.its not a brain washing ploy.

I don't think I've been bigoted or hateful - but I guess I have been rude. I'm sorry and I'll try to be more civil so the discussion is more fun for all involved. In return you could answer some of the arguments I've made.

its what i think in that ive wrote,i never asked if you thought it.

A genuine and perfect god would be able to spread his influence without having to rely on flawed humans to do the job for him.

excuse me sten,its the flaws in you an myself, that i find great strength in my faith/god..i dont mean that in a bad way at all.its just that you are mealy human like me you are no were near the god i follow who became flesh.

What makes you more right about hell than a Christian who believes in Hellfire? How can you say you and Peter are 100% right when you can't even come up with anything Biblical to back it up? What would you say to a Christian who insisted that non-Christians burn in fire for eternity?

then get me one on here and ill talk to him/her,simple.not you you do not have a god or feel a god,you do not know god you are not able to discuss it in my eyes,sorry if you spit the dummy out.you dont want to know full stop.its a waste of time with the explanations with you sten.

You've written an entire post having a good old whinge about me, without actually answering any of my points. Why are you here? What do you get out of this discussion? Wouldn't you enjoy yourself more if you put in some effort and tried to counter what I am saying about your religion? When it comes to apologetics you are doing a terrible job. Come on Paxi work your brain, think a bit, it's good for you.

lol.i could write more but it wasnt a post to joe public.no not at all.it was to you to show you how i have found how you go about your business.and im not the only one.

im here to fight and expose islam/sharia.

ive countered you questions from day one sten.you are the same person then as are now.you have no depth.the talk cannot move on from first base.i dont want to explain anything to you really,ive learnt my lesson quickly with you.as my dad used to say,you cant educate pork.(no pun intended.)
im not an apologetic sten,ive told you this god knows how many times.do you suffer from Alzheimer's?
i work my constantly.i have to living in England with the corruption of Government and local authority's.i know im not to your taste.but dont treat people who have faith in god with rudness,hate,bigotry or contempt.they might be a good person.

i dont want to go over old ground with you sten,it boring you and I got know where then and im pretty sure we will get to the same place rather quickly if we started now.but i cannot let you take the michael by playing games with other people i think some thing of.funnily enough i think a bit of you if a islamist came on id defend you.is that strange?

ill cya for now.and think on its repetitive when we start to talk.thats the both of us.so move on eh?

[Sten]

then get me one on here and ill talk to him/her,simple.

I could say the same to you, get me a Jew on here and I'll talk to him about the OT.

What's so difficult? Why can't you just tell me why you think you're 100% right and someone who believes in Hellfire is 100% wrong? That's the problem with you, Paxi - you go around making statements like "this is 100% right" and then you complain and get defensive when you're asked to justify this.

not you you do not have a god or feel a god,you do not know god you are not able to discuss it in my eyes,sorry if you spit the dummy out.you dont want to know full stop.its a waste of time with the explanations with you sten.

So basically what you're saying is that I first have to believe in god in order to be convinced by your arguments. You don't like to discuss it with me, because I don't blindly accept statements like "this is 100% correct" without asking questions and digging deeper. Why is Peterpin 100% correct? You still haven't told me, instead you complain and moan, hoping to distract me so I forget the question.

funnily enough i think a bit of you if a islamist came on id defend you.is that strange?

Not strange at all, it just shows that I was right. We are both atheists, you just believe in one fewer god than I do. When you understand why you're not a Muslim, you'll understand why I'm not a Christian.

ill cya for now.and think on its repetitive when we start to talk.

It's repetitive because one of us wants to get to the philosophical meat of the issue, and one of us just wants to complain and moan. Try actually making an effort to respond to a difficult question. Try making an effort to ask me a difficult question. Instead of attacking my character, try to stump me with a philosophical argument. Challenge yourself.

[paxi christi]

@ sten

I could say the same to you, get me a Jew on here and I'll talk to him about the OT.

this explains what im saying sten.... the context of the title.its always christians who have to explain the OT not jews. what you have said is rubbish.strawman again.im answering your question on what you asked.now you ae inventing a question what has nothing to do with the title..

We are both atheists, you just believe in one fewer god than I do. When you understand why you're not a Muslim, you'll understand why I'm not a Christian.

you sure are up yourself.how can i be atheist if i believe in only one god.you have to have no faith or beleif in any god to be atheist dont you?sten another no brainer, straw man.

It's repetitive because one of us wants to get to the philosophical meat of the issue, and one of us just wants to complain and moan.

like ive said you have never ate the meat or dunk the gravy,how can you talk about something you have never tasted or lived?
you had to be there to appreciate it,if you were not how can you appreciate it??? ring your bells???

Challenge yourself.

why dont you be a theist for a year,ive not belieived in god for a number of years once in my life time.you keep saying difficult to people of faith.why dont you do your difficult?its like the mullahs asking the believers to blow themselves up while they do nothing.but keep on telling people the same old same old.that is how boring it is.

im not answering any more.it is a no goer with you.end of.


sten,you are boring to say the least.im not attacking you.its just the way you are.some people are ugly thats the way it is for them.

[Sten]

@ sten

I could say the same to you, get me a Jew on here and I'll talk to him about the OT.

this explains what im saying sten.... the context of the title.its always christians who have to explain the OT not jews. what you have said is rubbish.strawman again.im answering your question on what you asked.now you ae inventing a question what has nothing to do with the title..

Ever considered it's because there are 2 billion Christians and only about 13 million Jews? You all believe in the same book, it's natural that the more people you have, the more you're asked to defend your claims. Stop trying to disown the OT, it's just as much a part of your religion as it is the Jewish religion. Jesus wholeheartedly believed in it.

We are both atheists, you just believe in one fewer god than I do. When you understand why you're not a Muslim, you'll understand why I'm not a Christian.

you sure are up yourself.how can i be atheist if i believe in only one god.you have to have no faith or beleif in any god to be atheist dont you?sten another no brainer, straw man.

You sure are slow. You're an atheist to all the other gods. A-THEIST - lack of theism. You lack theism with all gods except one.

When you understand why you don't believe in any of the other gods, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours. You don't seem to like that comparison.

like ive said you have never ate the meat or dunk the gravy,how can you talk about something you have never tasted or lived?
you had to be there to appreciate it,if you were not how can you appreciate it??? ring your bells???

You should be able to justify saying something is 100% correct, to someone who wasn't there. If I told you that aliens 100% existed and I know because I've seen one, would you believe me? Of course you wouldn't, you'd think I was nuts, and you'd be right.

All you are doing is trying to deflect me into a personal name-calling match instead of getting to the philosophical meat. To a non-Christian, it's obvious that it is uncomfortable for you to dig deeper into your religion so you complain and use personal attacks instead.

Challenge yourself.

why dont you be a theist for a year,ive not belieived in god for a number of years once in my life time.you keep saying difficult to people of faith.why dont you do your difficult?its like the mullahs asking the believers to blow themselves up while they do nothing.but keep on telling people the same old same old.that is how boring it is.

im not answering any more.it is a no goer with you.end of.

Maybe if you gave me some convincing arguments and answered the problems I had with theism, instead of complaining and moaning, I would turn into a theist. Unlike you my mindset is not fixed and closed, I am open to convincing arguments, but they must first be convincing. What you've given me is page after page of self-pitying BS.

sten,you are boring to say the least.im not attacking you.its just the way you are.some people are ugly thats the way it is for them.

I could say the same to you - it's boring reading this ad hominem BS which is why I encourage you to use your brain a bit. To no avail, so far.

You are attacking me, and it's pretty obvious why - it's because attacking and complaining is much easier than difficult philosophical discussion. It's fascinating to watch the mind of a believer try to wriggle out of justifying anything he says. You'll say anything to avoid backing up your claims. "THIS IS 100% CORRECT but I don't want to tell you why because you don't know and you weren't there and its ugly of you to question me like this why can't you just leave me alone..."

[LCD]

Ever considered it's because there are 2 billion Christians and only about 13 million Jews? You all believe in the same book, it's natural that the more people you have, the more you're asked to defend your claims. Stop trying to disown the OT, it's just as much a part of your religion as it is the Jewish religion. Jesus wholeheartedly believed in it.

Big Difference, we can;t enact the laws if the OT under any earthly King. Jesus is the messiah. Also, the laws protecting jews and non-jews are cancelled by the fact there are in the NT's words, no Jew or Greek.

You yourself haven't really read much of the OT in the first place, hence the number of times you actually don't quote from it, rather, you pull a section from Revelation and scream and wave your fists, and i'm damn tired of your continually repetetive statement that Islam is the same as Judaism as Christianity,

One read through of the actual law shows without a doubt they aren't the same. Major Example: Theft. Islam cuts off the hand, Judiasm=equal repayment for that which was stolen. There's the major difference right there. But i've gone through this a thousand times with poeple like you and you refuse to actually discuss the context, you just scream about stoning.

[Sten]

You yourself haven't really read much of the OT in the first place, hence the number of times you actually don't quote from it, rather, you pull a section from Revelation and scream and wave your fists, and i'm damn tired of your continually repetetive statement that Islam is the same as Judaism as Christianity

Please show where I have said this.

I love the way you attach dramatic effect to my writing such as screaming and fist waving, it's quite entertaining. Shows you're the type of person who enjoys reading tabloids.

[paxi christi]

@ sten

You sure are slow. You're an atheist to all the other gods. A-THEIST - lack of theism. You lack theism with all gods except one.

When you understand why you don't believe in any of the other gods, you'll understand why I don't believe in yours. You don't seem to like that comparison.

one sentence at a time..........

no im not sten,you are thick,because the next answer will show you why..

im not atheist to all other GODS.i believe people believe in a god,its the same god but described to there perception. be it there way of thinking.ill agree on that point.so im not atheist at all,you are thick,simple.

you dont believe in any god what on earth are you gibbering on about,this is were you show your naivety,and lack of knowledge on god or this case the Christian faith....there is no comparison at all...you are utterly shallow in what we are talking about...all you do is word play and bounce of people.quite pathetic really.but if you must.

for the millionth time,,,ive gone over and over with you in explaining your questions.you keep on drumming the same old same old...if you cant remember what we have been through with other threads thats not my fault if i refuse to go over them again.

and for the record is calling me slow not a ad hominem? it was in my books.maybe i was right you are a bigot who is hell bent on trying to destroy any body who has faith....

well looks like you can post what you like now sten,im done with you pal.the merry go round of the same old same old is over for me.you are not worth hte time and effort.

so buddy time to move on i think. and fight islam/sharia...your job it to fight more than half the worlds population,best of luck.

[LCD]

Here you are Sten here is where you say they are the same.

Because you believe in it and because it's a part of your religion, no matter how much you wish it wasn't. It's the common factor of all Abramic religions - Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. They are all more similar than their adherents would like to admit - cut from the same cloth with the same brutal tribal savagery as a foundation.

Right there, you flat out say that Islam is an abrahamic religion, which is your first lie.
Your second lie is that they are all the same and similar than we like to admit.
admit nothing of the sort, i hold the context of the old testement up to Islam for the cold light of day to burst Islam into Flame I submit it is ten thousnad times more humane, more generous to women, more respectful of women, i submit also that its punishments ARE not islamic punishments, that it does not call for any lashings, and it calls for Stoning only of Jews who have clearly breached what is a contract with God in the context of the time period when GOD was present.

And I then submit to you that the New Testement brings a new covenant for all mankind, which says there is no distinction between Jew and greek.

Proof enough you lump em all together?

[Sten]

im not atheist to all other GODS.i believe people believe in a god,its the same god but described to there perception. be it there way of thinking.ill agree on that point.so im not atheist at all,you are thick,simple.

Garbage. You believe that your god is the only correct one, and that everyone else is wrong. Don't try to lie your way out of it. As a Catholic you believe that gods like Mithra and Krishna are false gods and that their adherents will not get into heaven. Don't give me this line about "the same god", it's Christian dishonesty at its highest.

So why are you Catholic and not Hindu? If it's the same god "but described to there perception" you're both right? So it would be ok if everyone deconverted from Christianity and became Hindus?

Pull the other one Paxi, don't insult my intelligence with this rubbish.

you dont believe in any god what on earth are you gibbering on about,this is were you show your naivety,and lack of knowledge on god or this case the Christian faith....there is no comparison at all...you are utterly shallow in what we are talking about...all you do is word play and bounce of people.quite pathetic really.but if you must.

for the millionth time,,,ive gone over and over with you in explaining your questions.you keep on drumming the same old same old...if you cant remember what we have been through with other threads thats not my fault if i refuse to go over them again.

You've gone over and over complaining about my questions, trying to weasel out of actually answering them.

What makes you 100% right about hell? Why are you avoiding this question like the plague? How can you prove that someone who believes in a fiery hell is 100% wrong?

and for the record is calling me slow not a ad hominem? it was in my books.maybe i was right you are a bigot who is hell bent on trying to destroy any body who has faith....

LOL, it was in response to you saying I was "up myself", which is also an ad hominem. I respond to ad hominem with ad hominem of my own. You accuse me of playing the victim card but you play it in every post you write, whining about hate and bigotry and dishing out insults that you can't take. What kind of hypocrite are you?

[Sten]

Here you are Sten here is where you say they are the same.

Because you believe in it and because it's a part of your religion, no matter how much you wish it wasn't. It's the common factor of all Abramic religions - Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. They are all more similar than their adherents would like to admit - cut from the same cloth with the same brutal tribal savagery as a foundation.

Right there, you flat out say that Islam is an abrahamic religion, which is your first lie.

Islam IS an Abrahamic religion. You can't seriously be ignorant of this fact, can you? Lol, are you also one of those people who insist that Catholics aren't real Christians?

Your second lie is that they are all the same and similar than we like to admit.

I asked you to find where I said they are all the same and you failed - so that makes you the liar. "Similar" is a different word than "Same". Become more familiar with your dictionary please.

Same = Identical

Similar = Shares characteristics

admit nothing of the sort, i hold the context of the old testement up to Islam for the cold light of day to burst Islam into Flame I submit it is ten thousnad times more humane, more generous to women, more respectful of women, i submit also that its punishments ARE not islamic punishments, that it does not call for any lashings, and it calls for Stoning only of Jews who have clearly breached what is a contract with God in the context of the time period when GOD was present.

And I then submit to you that the New Testement brings a new covenant for all mankind, which says there is no distinction between Jew and greek.

Proof enough you lump em all together?

I lump them all together because they are all Abramic religions with the OT as their source.

lol ok, so it's ok to execute people for blasphemy and commit genocide when the Jews do it, is that what you're saying? What a joke. In the OT, the Jews conquer several cities and kill every living creature living within them. There are many verses such as the one below:

Deuteronomy 13:12-16 KJV

12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the Lord thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

An unrelated note, but I'm just interested LCD - do you believe in a fiery hell?

[frankie]

Sten:

Can I put something to you concerning your stance on Islam being of Abrahamic origin.

Islam I would argue, is not an "Abrahamic faith"my reasons are as follows.
From the Christian and Jewish perspective,Mohammed was a false prophet,his "teachings" are diametrically opposed to the Ten Commandments,which in turn fully distance Muslims from anything to do with the O.T.and N.T. God.

You would agree that Islam is by its very nature a distructive,divisive and deceptive belief system,which is bourne out by Mohammeds deceptive way of replacing the only god he knew anything about Hubal,with the God of the Jews and Christians,thereby giving his own form of religion a bone fide appearance.

Although the Quran takes quotes from O.T.sources,and parts of Christian scripture,this does not automatically mean it takes their God too.It is all part of the deception process,to make people believe it comes from the same divine source,when in truth it does not.

Is not one of the 99 names of Allah,"the deceiver?"

Abraham was led away from worshipping celestial beings,to worship one divine being,according to O.T.sources he never set foot in Arabia,and therefore could not possibly have anything to do with a pagan worshipping building,to either build or rebuild.By way of factual illustration,he is buried along with all the other Patriarchs in Hebron,Israel,not in Arabia,which would strongly indicate his non presence in Arabia.

I should add that, it is truly alarming when I hear some Christians claiming Islam has Abrahamic roots,they are truly ignorant of the truth,and by their ignorance perpectuate this lie, that somehow Islam is connected to their God.

I know all this info is but academic to someone such as yourself,who has no faith in any God,but I feel it necessary to write this, not only for you,but for Muslims who no doubt frequent these pages.

[Sten]

Sten:

Can I put something to you concerning your stance on Islam being of Abrahamic origin.

Islam I would argue, is not an "Abrahamic faith"my reasons are as follows.
From the Christian and Jewish perspective,Mohammed was a false prophet,his "teachings" are diametrically opposed to the Ten Commandments,which in turn fully distance Muslims from anything to do with the O.T.and N.T. God.

Hi Frankie,

From the Jewish perspective, Jesus was a false messiah. Every offshoot religion is false from the perspective of its precursor, you won't find many Christians who'll say that Mormonism is legitimate, for example.

You would agree that Islam is by its very nature a distructive,divisive and deceptive belief system,which is bourne out by Mohammeds deceptive way of replacing the only god he knew anything about Hubal,with the God of the Jews and Christians,thereby giving his own form of religion a bone fide appearance.

Yes, you are right. However it doesn't change that Islam is based on the tenets and mythology of the OT. Ironic really, since Muslims hate Jews so much.

Although the Quran takes quotes from O.T.sources,and parts of Christian scripture,this does not automatically mean it takes their God too.It is all part of the deception process,to make people believe it comes from the same divine source,when in truth it does not.

Is not one of the 99 names of Allah,"the deceiver?"

Abraham was led away from worshipping celestial beings,to worship one divine being,according to O.T.sources he never set foot in Arabia,and therefore could not possibly have anything to do with a pagan worshipping building,to either build or rebuild.By way of factual illustration,he is buried along with all the other Patriarchs in Hebron,Israel,not in Arabia,which would strongly indicate his non presence in Arabia.

I should add that, it is truly alarming when I hear some Christians claiming Islam has Abrahamic roots,they are truly ignorant of the truth,and by their ignorance perpectuate this lie, that somehow Islam is connected to their God.

I know all this info is but academic to someone such as yourself,who has no faith in any God,but I feel it necessary to write this, not only for you,but for Muslims who no doubt frequent these pages.

I would argue that the region in which a religion is founded has less to do with it than its core dogma and mythology. To bring up Mormonism again, this cult claims that Native Americans are one of the lost tribes of Israel, despite this claim being ridiculous and not at all grounded in reality - but this doesn't change that Mormonism is Abrahamic. It's just a more recent spinoff.

[paxi christi]

@ sten

but this doesn't change that Mormonism is Abrahamic. It's just a more recent spinoff.

so sten,according to you,Joseph Smith would play the same character in Mormonism that Muhammad plays in Islam?

islam is not from Abraham. that's the point raised of those against islam/sharia, and you know this,but you are at your word play and confusion tactics again.

is this of the the Dr. Richard Land interview lately that you have gathered this information?

because it is weak really,your telling me that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God? could you point out to prophecy in any of the OT/NT to say any thing about his cumming or appearance?

AND COULD WE GET BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE???

[Sten]

Blah blah blah

Yes Paxi that's very nice, but could you tell me why Peterpin is 100% right about hell and someone who believes in hellfire is 100% wrong? How can you be 100% right about something that is based on faith not proof?