Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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Cassie
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Cassie »

I agree: there is nothing in Islam worth saving.

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The Cat
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by The Cat »

My post
The Cat wrote:Now, I don't give a damn if Muslims pray five times a day towards Mecca, fast during Ramadan, say the Shahada, give to (real) charity or perform the hajj to Mecca. I don't mind the -religious- parts of ANY religion.

What is at stake in my comments is the political seditious parts of Islam (sanctified hatred), OR of ANY other faith, which must be eradicated from the umbrella of freedom of religion. And this must be -general- so to be effective, not limited only to Islam.

Your way is bloody confrontational, and Muslims are professionals at martyrdom which you'd fuel.
Mine is acting with as much civility as possible, within the realm of legality, with end results in sight.

Freedom of religion must be defined as to what is religious and what isn't. Simple as Occam's razor.
Are Muslims allowed to blow your head and rape your wife under the freedom to practice their religion?
Pragmatist answer:
Pragmatist wrote:Your extremely foolish ASSUMPTION is that there is something in Islam worth saving and that Mohammedans will allow ANYONE to mess with their god given book of Hate and War and their presumption that they will and MUST eventually rule all the world. In that You are monumentally misinformed and have no insight into Mohammedanism at the very LEAST if you think Mohammedans will allow that to happen. My comments about your attitude stand. You are either very stupid or extremely naive. You choose which.
I followed with:
The Cat wrote:That's why the idea goes with a law, defining was is religious and what isn't, for ALL faiths.
Freedom of religion is enshrined in most Constitutions, no one will change the basic of it.

To state that there's nothing ''in Islam worth saving'' is either Utopian or Hitlerian (just switch Judaism for Islam)
I don't go for fanaticism, yours included...
To which Pragmatist answered
Pragmatist wrote:You keep on CONFIRMING exactly what I said about you and your "moral equivalence" much as you try to deny it. Why on earth should I want to and how is it remotely possible to equate Islam with Judaism ???

What in Judaism tells them that EVERYONE is born a Jew, that Jews will and MUST eventually rule all the world and anyone who leaves Judaism should be murdered, and all non Jews are second class citizens or vermin and that all Mohammedans should be killed ????


Nothing at all of course but YOU think they can be equated by someone like me. Because you want to think I am just as illogical and irrational as YOU obviously are. Sorry Moonbat I am not.
Why is it that I always have to correct you: Where did I equated Islam with Judaism? Nowhere!


I've equated YOUR statement that there's ''nothing in Islam worthy of saving''
with Hitler's position such as ''there was nothing in Judaism worthy of saving.'

So, I pray that you (along with Cassie) haven't realize the implications of your mutual statement.

It must be the single most horrendous thing I've ever read in this forum.

I'm stunned... and read back Faithfreedom logo, with a chill, so to know where I am:
We aim to promote human rights and democracy among Muslims.
We oppose Islam, not Muslims. We are against hate, not faith.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

The Cat wrote:My post
The Cat wrote:Now, I don't give a damn if Muslims pray five times a day towards Mecca, fast during Ramadan, say the Shahada, give to (real) charity or perform the hajj to Mecca. I don't mind the -religious- parts of ANY religion.

What is at stake in my comments is the political seditious parts of Islam (sanctified hatred), OR of ANY other faith, which must be eradicated from the umbrella of freedom of religion. And this must be -general- so to be effective, not limited only to Islam.

Your way is bloody confrontational, and Muslims are professionals at martyrdom which you'd fuel.
Mine is acting with as much civility as possible, within the realm of legality, with end results in sight.

Freedom of religion must be defined as to what is religious and what isn't. Simple as Occam's razor.
Are Muslims allowed to blow your head and rape your wife under the freedom to practice their religion?
Pragmatist answer:
Pragmatist wrote:Your extremely foolish ASSUMPTION is that there is something in Islam worth saving and that Mohammedans will allow ANYONE to mess with their god given book of Hate and War and their presumption that they will and MUST eventually rule all the world. In that You are monumentally misinformed and have no insight into Mohammedanism at the very LEAST if you think Mohammedans will allow that to happen. My comments about your attitude stand. You are either very stupid or extremely naive. You choose which.
I followed with:
The Cat wrote:That's why the idea goes with a law, defining was is religious and what isn't, for ALL faiths.
Freedom of religion is enshrined in most Constitutions, no one will change the basic of it.

To state that there's nothing ''in Islam worth saving'' is either Utopian or Hitlerian (just switch Judaism for Islam)
I don't go for fanaticism, yours included...
To which Pragmatist answered
Pragmatist wrote:You keep on CONFIRMING exactly what I said about you and your "moral equivalence" much as you try to deny it. Why on earth should I want to and how is it remotely possible to equate Islam with Judaism ???

What in Judaism tells them that EVERYONE is born a Jew, that Jews will and MUST eventually rule all the world and anyone who leaves Judaism should be murdered, and all non Jews are second class citizens or vermin and that all Mohammedans should be killed ????


Nothing at all of course but YOU think they can be equated by someone like me. Because you want to think I am just as illogical and irrational as YOU obviously are. Sorry Moonbat I am not.
Why is it that I always have to correct you: Where did I equated Islam with Judaism? Nowhere!

You say this then do EXACTLY what you claim not to do directly below it. :prop: :prop: :prop:

I've equated YOUR statement that there's ''nothing in Islam worthy of saving''
with Hitler's position such as ''there was nothing in Judaism worthy of saving.'


So, I pray that you (along with Cassie) haven't realize the implications of your mutual statement.

It must be the single most horrendous thing I've ever read in this forum.

I'm stunned... and read back Faithfreedom logo, with a chill, so to know where I am:
We aim to promote human rights and democracy among Muslims.
[b]We oppose Islam, not Muslims[/b]. We are against hate, not faith.quote]


Yet AGAIN you try and play the MORAL EQUIVALENCE game are you really that stupid. I just addressed that in my last post. You REALLY REALLY need a lesson in COMPREHENSION see what I highlighted in YOUR post. Did I say anything about individual Mohammedans NO I DID NOT all I did was oppose ISLAM ITSELF and that is EXACTLY what FFI stands for. I stand by mine and Cassie's statements that there is NOTHING in Islam that is worth saving. Mohammedans on the other hand if they renounce the EVIL OF ISLAM can be saved. I seriously recommend you to read some of Ali Sina's and KhaliL's articles on here before spouting more nonsense.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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The Cat
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by The Cat »

Pragmatist wrote:I stand by mine and Cassie's statements that there is NOTHING in Islam that is worth saving. Mohammedans on the other hand if they renounce the EVIL OF ISLAM can be saved.
AGAIN, the equation was between YOU and HITLER. Not between Judaism and Islam (incidental).
Will you ever get anything right?

It simply doesn't go like this in a civilized world.
Your own d'awa is as horrifying as than theirs...


You're a freak. :crazy:
Last edited by The Cat on Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

The Cat wrote:
Pragmatist wrote:I stand by mine and Cassie's statements that there is NOTHING in Islam that is worth saving. Mohammedans on the other hand if they renounce the EVIL OF ISLAM can be saved.
AGAIN, the equation was between YOU and HITLER. Not between Judaism and Islam.
Will you ever get anything right?

It simply doesn't go like this in the civilized world.
Your own d'awa is no better than theirs...

You're a freak. :crazy:
Better than being a moral equivalence spouting fool. YOU were to one who tried to make out that my dislikeof Islam was the SAME as Hitler's hatred of the Jews remember if that is not Moral Equivalence what is and do remember Hitler hated the JEWS not just JUDAISM and proved his hatred of JEWS by killing them in their MILLIONS. You are the one that DISGUSTS me by making this wicked comparison with my views and a GENOCIDAL MANIAC like Hitler. So stop playing the race card the last refuge of the scoundrel. Then tell us what are ALL these good parts of Islam that can be saved. Your inability to provide a rational list and to tell us HOW this can be achieved will be taken as proof that you are just running off at the mouth. And don't forget that you CANNOT disregard or CHANGE anything in the Krap Kran be it good or EVIL as the Mohammedans believe that it is the "actual and UNALTERABLE word of their god" and unfortunately for you most of it is EVIL and this silly claim it makes for ITSELF makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it to be reformed. So tell us do CAT how Mohammedans can make Islam all nice and cuddly as you would love to see it being? The FREAK here is YOU.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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Cassie
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Cassie »

What is there in Islam that is worth saving?

- the Islamic family values where Old men can marry little girls?
- the Islamic gender equality where women are worth half as much as men?
- the Islamic love of humanity by treating non-Muslims like shyte?
- the Islamic goal of world peace by subjugation of all those who refuse to accept Allah?
- the Islamic role in human progress by 'idiotizing' all those who embrace it?

What exactly is there in Islam that is worth saving?

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

Cassie wrote:What is there in Islam that is worth saving?

- the Islamic family values where Old men can marry little girls?
- the Islamic gender equality where women are worth half as much as men?
- the Islamic love of humanity by treating non-Muslims like shyte?
- the Islamic goal of world peace by subjugation of all those who refuse to accept Allah?
- the Islamic role in human progress by 'idiotizing' all those who embrace it?

What exactly is there in Islam that is worth saving?
I am waiting for our Moral Equivalence expert, race card playing CAT to tell us just that and whats more exactly HOW anything can be changed in a CULT which has painted itself in to a corner by declaring its evil Holy Book the UNALTERABLE word of its false god. Once they accept that it can and has to be changed they are no longer Mohammedans but apostates. This argument is of course far too complicated for the simplistic CAT.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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The Cat
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by The Cat »

Cassie wrote:What is there in Islam that is worth saving?

- the Islamic family values where Old men can marry little girls?
- the Islamic gender equality where women are worth half as much as men?
- the Islamic love of humanity by treating non-Muslims like shyte?
- the Islamic goal of world peace by subjugation of all those who refuse to accept Allah?
- the Islamic role in human progress by 'idiotizing' all those who embrace it?

What exactly is there in Islam that is worth saving?
I've said this before... things like:
Now, I don't give a damn if Muslims pray five times a day towards Mecca, fast during Ramadan, say the Shahada, give to (real) charity or perform the hajj to Mecca. I don't mind the -religious- parts of ANY religion.

What is at stake in my comments is the political seditious parts of Islam (sanctified hatred), OR of ANY other faith, which must be eradicated from the umbrella of freedom of religion. And this must be -general- so to be effective, not limited only to Islam.
Mind you, these are known to be the five pillars of Islam.

What you've mentioned isn't religious at all in my understanding.
To delimit this there should be a -law-, defining what can be ok (or not) under our irremovable Constitutional freedom of religion.
That's my whole point.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

The Cat wrote:
Cassie wrote:What is there in Islam that is worth saving?

- the Islamic family values where Old men can marry little girls?
- the Islamic gender equality where women are worth half as much as men?
- the Islamic love of humanity by treating non-Muslims like shyte?
- the Islamic goal of world peace by subjugation of all those who refuse to accept Allah?
- the Islamic role in human progress by 'idiotizing' all those who embrace it?

What exactly is there in Islam that is worth saving?
I've said this before... things like:
Now, I don't give a damn if Muslims pray five times a day towards Mecca, fast during Ramadan, say the Shahada, give to (real) charity or perform the hajj to Mecca. I don't mind the -religious- parts of ANY religion.

What is at stake in my comments is the political seditious parts of Islam (sanctified hatred), OR of ANY other faith, which must be eradicated from the umbrella of freedom of religion. And this must be -general- so to be effective, not limited only to Islam.
Mind you, these are known to be the five pillars of Islam.

What you've mentioned isn't religious at all in my understanding.
To delimit this there should be a -law-, defining what can be ok under our irremovable Constitutional freedom of religion.
That's my whole point.

Just as I thought you have no answers at all you just want to sit there and make disgusting allegations against people. Please give up on this PC Multi Culti moral equivalence BS all the points raised by Cassie are integral parts of the UNALTERABLE Krap Kran and as such an UNCHANGEABLE part of Islam. Quite clearly as you have just demonstrated and admitted you have no knowledge or understanding of Islam at all. So why are you pontificating on here at all. WAKE UP and grow up or get back to the Daily Kos where you so obviously belong.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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The Cat
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by The Cat »

Pragmatist wrote:the points raised by Cassie are integral parts of the UNALTERABLE Krap Kran and as such an UNCHANGEABLE part of Islam. Quite clearly as you have just demonstrated and admitted you have no knowledge or understanding of Islam at all. So why are you pontificating on here at all. WAKE UP and grow up.
The most crucial point concerning the Koran is to bring history within, to take it away from an Allah in heaven. The rest will follow.
Remember, there was a time were women were burned for allegedly being witches, because G-d said so in the Bible. It's obsolete...
But Christianity wasn't eradicated, was it? So, Islam must be civilized from within. But you will never, ever, eradicate it...

My last post on this.
Authority has the same etymological root as authenticity.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

The Cat wrote:
Pragmatist wrote:the points raised by Cassie are integral parts of the UNALTERABLE Krap Kran and as such an UNCHANGEABLE part of Islam. Quite clearly as you have just demonstrated and admitted you have no knowledge or understanding of Islam at all. So why are you pontificating on here at all. WAKE UP and grow up.
The most crucial point concerning the Koran is to bring history within, to take it away from an Allah in heaven. The rest will follow.
Remember, there was a time were women were burned for allegedly being witches, because G-d said so in the Bible. It's obsolete...
But Christianity wasn't eradicated, was it? So, Islam must be civilized from within. But you will never, ever, eradicate it...

My last post on this.
Your highlighted sentence is just verbal GIBBERISH. My God you STILL don't get it do you the KRAP KRAN is UNCHANGEABLE so Islam is incapable of REFORM or MODERNISATION from either within or without. What part of that are you too stupid to understand. If you declare your EVIL hate filled Book the UNALTERABLE word of your God then there is NO ROOM AT ALL FOR REFORM OR CHANGE. What part of the 'actual UNALTERABLE word of God' are you too stupid to understand . Just because YOU want to go on bleating your 'moral equivalence, PC, Multi Culti BS' does not mean that it is true or can ever happen. Glad to see you are running away arguing with fools incapable of seeing the wood for the trees is so boring. You will be known to me from now on as 'Multi Culti Moral Equivalence Man' and all your comments judged in that light.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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Cassie
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Cassie »

The Cat wrote:
Cassie wrote:What is there in Islam that is worth saving?

- the Islamic family values where Old men can marry little girls?
- the Islamic gender equality where women are worth half as much as men?
- the Islamic love of humanity by treating non-Muslims like shyte?
- the Islamic goal of world peace by subjugation of all those who refuse to accept Allah?
- the Islamic role in human progress by 'idiotizing' all those who embrace it?

What exactly is there in Islam that is worth saving?
I've said this before... things like:
Now, I don't give a damn if Muslims pray five times a day towards Mecca, fast during Ramadan, say the Shahada, give to (real) charity or perform the hajj to Mecca. I don't mind the -religious- parts of ANY religion.

What is at stake in my comments is the political seditious parts of Islam (sanctified hatred), OR of ANY other faith, which must be eradicated from the umbrella of freedom of religion. And this must be -general- so to be effective, not limited only to Islam.
Mind you, these are known to be the five pillars of Islam.

What you've mentioned isn't religious at all in my understanding.
To delimit this there should be a -law-, defining what can be ok (or not) under our irremovable Constitutional freedom of religion.
That's my whole point.
????
Not religious? Everything I've written except the last one - which is an effect of all the others - comes from the Quran.

I disagree about your point about other faiths - they are of no concern to me because they are no danger. They can worship pixies for all I care - they do not call for jihad.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

On second thoughts CAT you are quite right Islam is reformable and those who say it isn't are blatant Islamaphobes and should be treated as such and given no respect at all . How can we ever progress with such neanderthals amongst us.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

misswhisp
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by misswhisp »

Thats what happens when you conquer this one that one and the other one, you end up stuck with them!

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

misswhisp wrote:Thats what happens when you conquer this one that one and the other one, you end up stuck with them!
Quite right Misswhisp open borders are what makes a nation safe and these ex colonial powers owe the World an apology . They should be squeezed until the pips squeak and not stop paying until all the money and assets they stole from developing countries are repaid not only in full but with compound interest added ( I hope our Muslim friends will forget their fully justified hatred of interest in this one special case). Once all the former Colonial countries have been fully occupied then it will be onward and upwards to 'sunlit uplands' where the sun will shine on the righteous and religious freedom and tolerance will allow a flowering of Science such has not been seen since the reformation. This is the real meaning of Multiculturalism.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

PenandInk
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by PenandInk »

Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism? Yes.

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Sten
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Sten »

Multiculturalism makes a country stronger and brings people together. Culture is about food, architecture, music, art, and philosophy, there's nothing more interesting or fulfilling than experiencing what another culture has to offer in terms of those things.

Multireligionism tears a country apart and creates violence and inequality. It makes me sad when people get the two confused, and begin thinking that many cultures cannot live together in one country. Culture is not the problem here. Monotheistic religion most certainly is.
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
- Carl Sagan

Ram
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Ram »

Pragmatist wrote:On second thoughts CAT you are quite right Islam is reformable and those who say it isn't are blatant Islamaphobes and should be treated as such and given no respect at all . How can we ever progress with such neanderthals amongst us.
Islamophobe is one who has irrational fear of Islam. My fear of Islam is not irrational, it is based on my expience with Islam and Muslims. You have to respect those with whom you want to have an intelligent discussion. Islam can only be reformed if Muslims themselves acknowledge the deficiencies of their religion. You cannot reform Islam if Muslims think that Islam is perfect.

We as non-Muslims can do is to show Muslims what Islam is about. They are not going to do it. It is our duty to bring the deficiencies of the religion to the attestion of Muslims because Muslims are not going to do it themselves.
वासुदैव कुटुम्बकम्।
سارا سنسار ایک پریوار ہے۔
The Whole World is a Family.

Pragmatist
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Pragmatist »

Sten wrote:Multiculturalism makes a country stronger and brings people together. Culture is about food, architecture, music, art, and philosophy, there's nothing more interesting or fulfilling than experiencing what another culture has to offer in terms of those things.

Multireligionism tears a country apart and creates violence and inequality. It makes me sad when people get the two confused, and begin thinking that many cultures cannot live together in one country. Culture is not the problem here. Monotheistic religion most certainly is.
How naive you are to make the assumption that you can have Multi Culturism without Multi Religionism.
Does a God create you simply to punish you in Hellfire well PREDESTINATING evil, illogical, sadistic allah DOES.

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Sten
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Re: Can Britain Survive Multiculturalism?

Post by Sten »

Pragmatist wrote:
Sten wrote:Multiculturalism makes a country stronger and brings people together. Culture is about food, architecture, music, art, and philosophy, there's nothing more interesting or fulfilling than experiencing what another culture has to offer in terms of those things.

Multireligionism tears a country apart and creates violence and inequality. It makes me sad when people get the two confused, and begin thinking that many cultures cannot live together in one country. Culture is not the problem here. Monotheistic religion most certainly is.
How naive you are to make the assumption that you can have Multi Culturism without Multi Religionism.
I never said it was achievable. Only that culture and religion are seperate. It's possible to be an atheist but also very traditional in the culture of your chosen country. Religion likes to think that it is the cradle of culture, but in reality it's only hanging on by the indoctrination of the children. If everyone stopped drilling their children's heads with religious nonsense the culture would still be left intact and the world would be many times more safe and harmonious.
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
- Carl Sagan

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