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Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:56 am
by idesigner1
Manfred there are numerous studies showing temperature rise in a big glass container where CO2 is produced.

In one experiment sprouting of grains produces CO2 where temperature goes up .

People who doubts climate change admit rise of earths temperature but to them this is just natural glacia -interglacial cycle, or its due to other cosmic reasons like sun spot activity etc. Nothing can be done about this cycle, it's going on since last 600 million years , since the time earth got atmosphere. My point is we should learn from what happened to atmosphere of nearby planet like Mars and Venus.

To me stable carbon isotope study settles the issue as we know where that Carbon came from.It came from fossil fuel burning.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:54 am
by manfred
I would like to try one of these experiments. Tell me what I need to repeat it.

Meanwhile, as to Co2 being a "greenhouse gas" at all, that all depends who you ask:

http://principia-scientific.org/no-warm ... as-effect/

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:08 am
by Centaur
A major town in UK that has been taken over by Muslims in 30 years, nobody would have even believed it if the possibility was considered then. In a blink of en eye everything changed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgE9DQFBrSY.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:38 pm
by idesigner1
manfred wrote:I would like to try one of these experiments. Tell me what I need to repeat it.

Meanwhile, as to Co2 being a "greenhouse gas" at all, that all depends who you ask:

http://principia-scientific.org/no-warm ... as-effect/


Are you ready?

1.Take two one litre clear plastic coke bottle.

2. Fill them half or 500 ml with distil water.

3. Use rubber lid to close them Make a hole in each bottle to insert thermometer. Insulate with glue to close.You can monitor temp. with sensor or do it by observing.
4. Drop Alka seltzer tablet of in one bottle only.
5. Expose each bottle , one after another at same distance using sodium vapor lamp or bulb which can supply heat.Do it exactly for one hour.Keep same distantce Or can do it exposing both facing sun at 12 o clock.Both will receive same heat.
6. Come back after one hour and notice the temperature in both bottles.
7. Bottle with alka seltzer fizzle. will show rise of temperature by 7 to 8 c.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:45 pm
by manfred
Interesting,,, two problems... a standard Alka seltzer produces about 80 ml of C02, and of you add that to the 500 ml of air would result in a CO2 contents of at least 16%. The air we breathe is 0.04% Co2. Also, the reaction of the chemicals in an Alka Seltzer are exothermic, i.e. producing heat (not much though), so we how will we get a reliable result from that?

What we are talking about in our atmosphere are rises of Co2 due to human activity of at most 1/100 of 1 percent, and there are a great many scientists saying this will have no noticeable effect, and then we have that massive heat exchange system called "weather"...

I did once, about 2 years back, a very similar thing to your idea, because this has bugged me for quite a while: I put some room temperature still mineral water into a plastic bottle, and sealed it. In another bottle I had some fizzy mineral water, the same amount, also room temperature. I shook both of them for 20 seconds, to allow Co2 to escape. I left them in the sun (in June) on the balcony, next on each other, but not touching. Then I used an infra-red thermometer to get the temperatures. (It one of those handy little ones you can point at things to get a temperature) The water was 23 in both bottles and the air above it read 27 and a bit for both. The Co2 bottles was slightly more, by 0.2 degrees, and that is not enough in my mind to be certain, as that could have all kinds of reasons...

So either I did it all wrong of there is no noticeable effect.

To get a comparable result, we should add about the same percentage of Co2 to the bottle as the estimated increase in the atmosphere, 0.01% of 500 ml is 0.05 ml Co2, about one bubble from a a fizzy drink. Do you think that much co2 is going to make a lot of difference?

To double the co2 content of this bottle of yours about 4 little bubbles of co2 from a fizzy drink would be needed. Can you see there is something here that does not make sense? Or will such an addition dramatically change the way the bottle reacts in sunlight?

In fact, interestingly, most scientists tell us that the most powerful "greenhouse effect" is due to water vapour in the air, not Co2. But we get to pay tax on the Co2 we cause to be released....

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:19 am
by idesigner1
You asked me whether CO2 in a dome cause temperature rise or not.Do same experiment with sprouting grains, temperature will rise.

Ok take measured amount of air mixture of Nirogen and oxygen as a standard in a tube and compare with a sample mimicking atmosphere with CO2. CO2 containing air will cause the rise in temperature.More the CO2 more the rise in temperature. Green house growers use this rise in temperature for growing vegetables in winter.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:58 am
by manfred
Green house growers use co2? I thought is was the glass that helps, plus the occasional paraffin heater....

We currently have about 0.04% Co2 in our atmosphere. This is a tiny amount. Even if it were to triple, it would still be a tiny amount. And we always had co2 in the atmosphere. The so-called "hockey stick" graph has been shown as fake, beyond reasonable doubt, but we still find it as "evidence", even in wiki. I think the "global warming" thing is the result of a symbiotic relationship between scientists and politicians... Scientists get grants to present "evidence" for human made global warming, now disputed by many, even by some scientists studying the field, and politicians can use these "data" to tax people and to justify "conferences" and big government.

A typical example is the so-called "Ultra-low Emission zone" shorty to be introduced in London. The London mayor argues that the air quality in London is "lethal", and therefore drastic measures are called for. Pollution measures for London report good air quality for almost all days in the last 10 years, with a very few days showing moderate pollution.

Despite of that we had to have new special buses (built by friends of the mayor) costing over £300000 each. If you have an older car you will have to pay over £20 a day to drive in Central London, by way of forcing people to use public transport. And of course, London public transport is the most expensive in the world, by a very large margin, and with each new "environmental" measure prices rise even more.

And of course electric companies get in on the act charging customers an "environment levy".... Not to mention airlines cashing in on it, even supermarkets....

Somehow "global warming" always means extra cash for government and businesses.

All this money being taken from people to combat "global warming" has not reduced it one iota. It's like asking people to pay a tax to ensure the sun will rise.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:10 am
by Centaur

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:17 am
by Centaur

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:03 pm
by idesigner1
Manfred I was mentioning the principle of global warming whic is used by green house growers in cold climate. The idea is to trap heat so that it won't radiate back in space, like how temperature rises on very cold day inside a car when sun shines , although outside temp is -20c.

Yes growers do use CO2 and supply by cylinders so that plants can photosynthesize. Many deniers use it as argument that more atmosphere CO2 will be good for agriculture. Forgetting other effects.

There are many green house gases , CO2 is the one, methane leaked by well heads in oil industry is another.

Particulate matter is also major pollutant. Switching to natural gas can solve lots of problem.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:10 pm
by idesigner1


He is physicist with mechanical engineering back ground. His challenges sampling methods.He tells us that there were few samples from Southern Hemisphere but guy has no use for any data and isotopes study of ice cores of Antarctic.

He has no idea of paleoclimates and how climate changed since last glacial age to pre Industrial Age to present day. He doesn't have any use of isotope data. Guy is respectable but by same token I can quote a dozen deniers and supporters Nobel prize Lauren's in economics, medicine etc.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:05 pm
by Fernando
I wouldn't bet on any messing about with bottles, CO2 and lamps producing any meaningful results either way - it's a different order of magnitude both in scale (too small) and temperature change (too large if measureable).
Whether CO2 absorbs a larger proportion of heat going out than it does of heat going in is a matter for spectroscopy rather than thermometry. I'd have to look it up if you want details.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:14 pm
by idesigner1
Fernando wrote:I wouldn't bet on any messing about with bottles, CO2 and lamps producing any meaningful results either way - it's a different order of magnitude both in scale (too small) and temperature change (too large if measureable).
Whether CO2 absorbs a larger proportion of heat going out than it does of heat going in is a matter for spectroscopy rather than thermometry. I'd have to look it up if you want details.


The bottle chemistry proves that CO2 is indeed a green house gas. Many even doubt that.

There are lots of observation by mass spectrometry which can prove which molecule absorbs more heat. There are lots of green house gases but CO2 is main one . Methane is next one.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:44 pm
by Nosuperstition
In my childhood,rains in India were quite prompt and seasonal.Nowadays they are quite haphazard and destroy many crops leaving the farmers indebted to the full.Scientists have attributed the phenomenon to climate change.A very intelligent forummer of FFI named Ansar al-Zindiqi or A to Z said that climate change is going to overwhelm/engulf/finish off the planet even before the Muslim demographic bomb.How true is he?

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:01 pm
by manfred
The most recent slight irregularities in the monsoon experienced in India may be related to changes in climate (which some say is man-made, but that is no longer universally accepted...), but the most likely short term reason for the effect is el nino...
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Indian-monsoons-irregular

As to the prediction that climate change will in the short term end the human race or even all life on earth... I seriously doubt that.

Humans have lived through some very much more drastic changes in climate, such as the beginning, the duration and the end of the last ice age. Humans then did not have anything like the technology we have today to aid them, and they still survived. So I think we are in with a very good chance.

The composition of life on earth has always changed, sometimes quite rapidly, mostly for changes in the environment, some occurring gradually, others suddenly, such as a meteorite impact. But modern humans are nowhere near as dependent on environmental factors as our ancestors. If there really is a slow global warming effect, we will either find a way to adapt or we die out. I think we will adapt. Life will change, but not end.

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:02 am
by Hombre
Gentlemen
please remember, the topic here is TRUMP. By straying off to other topics, you are missing the fun about Trump - worse, deprive others from having fun reading & writing about our "beloved" Trump. :lotpot:

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:51 pm
by Fernando
Hombre wrote:Gentlemen
please remember, the topic here is TRUMP. By straying off to other topics, you are missing the fun about Trump - worse, deprive others from having fun reading & writing about our "beloved" Trump. :lotpot:
Perhaps the thread could be split - unless Trump suddenly changes his mind about climate change after the hurricanes. That would be fun, since he may well be doing it for the wrong reason if he did. :sml:

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:14 pm
by Hombre
Yes, hopefully Irma had caused enough damage to his mar-a LEGO, to cause him to change his mind about climate change.

Also, our camellia in the WH now is more democrat then the democrats themselves. Watch him dance hand in had with chuck Schumer and cheek-to-cheek with N. Peloci

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:24 am
by manfred
Hombre, if one hurricane in hurricane alley is proof positive that man made global warming is true, would, say, one snow storm in Canada prove it is false?

It seems that this "global warming" thing is more of a religious dogma, which, if you express doubt in it, you can get sacked from your job and spat at by people in the street, like this English TV personality and environmentalist:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvan ... f-BBC.html

Re: PRESIDENT TRUMP

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:38 am
by Centaur
Hombre wrote:Gentlemen
please remember, the topic here is TRUMP. By straying off to other topics, you are missing the fun about Trump - worse, deprive others from having fun reading & writing about our "beloved" Trump. :lotpot:


I am no American but an Asian, and I don't personally know Trump, but as an outsider I would say this, tTrump is doing the good thing for America, by stopping the immigrants from majority countries. First and foremost the goal of a leader should be to defend their civilization from being wiped out by aliens who dont share any of the values of it.European leftards woke up one day and thought, we are neither good nor secular enough so shift millions of barbarians to our lands and put them on benefits so we feel good, while they multiply and outnumber us in a few generations. See that is utter stupidity or beyong stupidity not Trump. Trump looks Mr universe compared to the witch Hillary who ONLY cares about herself and would have brought millions of them to US to make her destructive evil ego and progressive friends happy.