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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:16 pm
by Fernando
Who's lying now?
Boris Johnson has strongly denied he told a string of ambassadors he was in favour of free movement of EU workers after Brexit, describing the claims as a 'total lie'.
In an angry rebuttal, the Foreign Secretary challenged the unnamed diplomats to produce proof he told them at a private lunch that he personally supported open borders with the EU.
And he said he has his own records that prove the claims are wrong.
The row is embarrassing for Mr Johnson, who led the Vote Leave campaign that promised to 'take back control' of the UK's borders.
He championed the case for Brexit despite his long-held pro-immigration views.
Today he said he had told four EU member state ambassadors 'very clearly' that immigration had benefited the UK but added that it had got 'out of control' and free movement of people must end after Britain cuts ties with Brussels.
The claims about Mr Johnson's alleged remarks about free movement were made on Sky News, by diplomats who attended a lunch with him. All spoke on condition of anonymity.
One liar or a gang of four? Besides this, a very interesting and far more important snippet of news which I've not seen reported anywhere else
Two weeks ago the Foreign Secretary was quoted in a Czech newspaper as saying it was 'b******s' that freedom of movement was a fundamental principle of the European Union.
'It's something that has been acquired by a series of decisions by the courts,' he added.
Now that really is serious. If true, it means that the entire EU establishment has been a lying pack of dogs from the outset. Thank goodness we're getting them off our backs - hopefully.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:53 pm
by manfred
We will not be able to get out without various monkey business first, that's for sure. As Erdogan is threatening to send load of refugees unless his EU membership is resolved quickly, and on his terms, there is a fair chance we will suddenly see via free travel of Turks to the Schengen zone at least, and we may even get told we cannot enforce any visa regime with Turkey ourselves, and must allow Turks to travel to the UK without a visa while we are still in the EU.

The complete lack of empathy of the leadership of the EU was demonstrated when Donald Tusk unequivocally confirmed that indeed he intends to use the ex-pats as a lever. It seems they really don't care at all about the people living in Europe, so we cannot expect him and his ilk to even show an interest in doing anything about the refugee issue, at least not until their jobs are on the line.

As far as Boris is concerned, it really is not that hard to understand, and people seem to be desperate to find things to misquote him about: He has always supported immigration as such, BUT ONLY, as long as the government is able to exercise some degree of control. To him, Brexit is not about either stopping immigration or let it run riot, it is about who should decides who can live here, the EU commission or the British government. That is the issue. The UK has always been a welcoming place, and I am sure it will remain just that. But it will be the government we elect that decides where to go with this question.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:25 pm
by Fernando
Meanwhile, the BBC doesn't change: on today's Sunday Politics two separate Brexit discussions were dominated by the odious and increasingly aggressive Nick Clegg, failed leader of the Liberal Democrats. Andrew Neill was less forceful than usual, but still managed to mock him. He pointed out that Clegg's attitude to the refendum hardly fitted his party's democratic name, and that Clegg's interpretation of Brexit amounted to staying in the EU. Clegg, it seems, thinks that the referendum should only have been voted on by those under 18, on the grounds that they will live under Brexit longer than the adults who did vote.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:58 am
by pr126

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:28 pm
by Fernando
Rose-tinted glasses. Brexit may be assured, but they'll still try to castrate it - if they can't decapitate it. For intance, every day the BBC is pumping out propaganda about firms needing an ever-increasing supply of foreign workers without which we'll all starve and our mobile phones will (shock! horror!) stop working.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:42 pm
by pr126
Foreign workers? Did the say workers?
With employable skills? :lotpot:

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:50 pm
by Fernando
Fernando wrote:Rose-tinted glasses. Brexit may be assured, but they'll still try to castrate it - if they can't decapitate it.
As a futher example, so-called UKIP MP Douglas Carswell has sided with odious Labour Emily Thornberry and noxious unelected money-woman Gina "Kill Brexit" Miller at a meeting run by the dreadful Leftist newspaper the Guardian
Former Conservative Member of Parliament Douglas Carswell, who just three weeks ago hinted at a possible return to the Tory party, used his position as a UKIP MP last night to advocate so-called soft Brexit.
Speaking at an event hosted by the left-wing Guardian newspaper on Tuesday night, Mr. Carswell told the audience Brexit “does not mean Nigel Farage’s vision of Brexit” and said he wanted a “new national consensus”.

Sitting with Labour Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry, who shot to prominence in 2014 after tweeting out snobbish comments about the homes of voters she canvassed during a by-election, and anti-Brexit legal challenger Gina Miller, Mr. Carswell said: “We need to draw people together.”

Attacking plans to take the United Kingdom out of the European Union following this year’s successful referendum, the combative UKIP MP, who has spent most of his time in the party sparring with former leader Nigel Farage, said: “The referendum was quite divisive … [but] the poll was actually relatively close.

“I’ve argued consistently that that means no one has carte blanche to rewrite things the way they want to rewrite them.”

His comments place him effectively in cahoots with colleagues in the House of Commons, with dozens of Labour and Conservative MPs advocating a so-called soft Brexit where Britain would continue to pay into the EU to remain a member of the single market.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:28 pm
by manfred
I think there will be endless attempts to tie Brexit into legal knots. As with any political vote, Brexit has a certain "shelf life" after which the referendum result will become an irrelevant distant memory.

In the end the hope is the whole thing will be quietly forgotten...

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:40 pm
by Fernando
Stab Boris, wait a while, then stab the rest of England and Wales
Michael Gove is allegedly teaming up with the Wicked Witch of the North to provide a gateway for uncontrolled immigration into England.
As mentioned in the article, it may well be a ruse to get a new referendum. If it's successful both in devolution and immigration, then we need Donald Trump to pop back over to Scotland and build a Trumpetine Wall p.d.q.
Scotland’s Brexit Minister has opened the door to working with Michael Gove after the Leave campaign leader backed SNP plans for Holyrood controls over immigration.

Mike Russell, who was appointed by Nicola Sturgeon to handle the UK’s exit from the European Union for the Scottish Government, argued there is “no reason” why political opponents cannot back his government’s plans for single market membership and extensive devolution.

It follows an exchange in the House of Commons between Stephen Gethins, the SNP’s Europe spokesman, and Mr Gove.

The former Lord Chancellor can be seen nodding when North East Fife MP Mr Gethins asks: “Why not give Scotland — it needs the powers — some of the responsibility for immigration?”

Hansard, the unimpeachable record of Parliamentary exchanges, noted that Mr Gove “indicated assent” towards the statement.

Mr Russell said: “I agree with Michael Gove on very little so to refer once again to the season of goodwill it is nice to know we might have one area of agreement. Of course I think it would be a sensible step forward.

“The paper deals in some detail with the issues of devolution of further powers. Migration is a key one in this area so if it is backed by Michael Gove I am more than willing to have a conversation with him about it.”

The Courier asked Mr Gove how he thought Scotland and the UK would benefit from the devolution of immigration and if he had any concerns people arriving in Scotland then moving to already highly populated parts of the UK.

He replied: “I am sure the First Minister and Prime Minister will develop policy in the interests of the whole United Kingdom.”

Mr Gethins said: “One of the few commitments made by the leaders of the campaign to leave the EU was when Mr Gove said that Scotland should have power over immigration.

“This would mean that we could have a policy that best suited Scotland’s needs not least our economic priorities and provide a boost to our Universities and food and drink sector among others.”

Meanwhile, Mr Russell claimed there is “nothing” in the 50-page Scottish Government document which either Labour or, perhaps surprisingly, the Conservatives should not be able to back.

Critics have said the document is unachievable and is only a smokescreen for a second independence referendum.

The SNP MSP was scathing about such claims, however.

He said: “There is no reason why Labour should not back these proposals, none whatsoever.

“They meet the big criteria they set in terms of membership of the single market. It is consistent both with what they have said in the Scottish Parliament and what Labour has said in the UK Parliament.

“It would be useful for everybody if we were able to work together and that door remains open and I say that again very clearly.

“I think there are ways in which we could make a good fist of taking this forward and I am very happy to have those discussions.”

Mr Russell added: “There is nothing in this paper that is difficult for the Tories to back except they have swung from this position of saying we must stay in, completely across to being born-again Brexiteers.

“That is only because they are pandering to two masters. One is Tory voters who voted to leave. I respect their position but they are in a minority, and the second one is the UK Government.

“There will be the opportunity, having digested their Christmas pudding or whatever, to reflect upon what comes next. I think they should reflect upon whether they can make a difference to Scotland by supporting us.”

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:33 pm
by Fernando
After unaccountable judges, we now get unidentifiable remoaners.

Astonishingly, four people have been allowed to lodge complaints against Brexit anonymously! Are they claiming they have been raped by Brexit?
New legal challenges demanding Parliament has greater control over the Brexit process have been lodged at the High Court.

Four anonymous claimants have joined a judicial review of the Government's EU withdrawal plans.

They will consolidate the case already initiated by pro-EU think tank British Influence.

The claims, lodged in the names of people identified only as W, L, T and B, have been accepted for consideration by the High Court, according to The Guardian.

The challenges say Britain will remain in the European Economic Area (EEA) and the single market after withdrawal. They insist that Parliamentary approval, separate from that to begin Brexit negotiations, is needed to quit the EEA.
Ah, but there's more:
One of the barristers involved in the fresh claim, S Chelvan, of No5 Barristers Chambers, told The Guardian: "We are seeking a declaration that the UK cannot withdraw from the EEA without the approval of HM Treasury and an act of Parliament.

"These are ordinary working men and women who have decided to make their futures in the UK and wish the UK to be their permanent home. One has mixed nationality, one is a non-EEA national but married to an EEA national. We are trying to highlight the various types of people who will be left in a state of limbo following our withdrawal from the EU."
This seems to suggest that these claimants are not simply anonymous but were inelegible to vote in the referendum yet still seek to overturn the result. What's more, their argument is that the UK might not allow them to stay - a situation that could only come about if their precious EU refused to allow UK citizens to stay there and a question that has only arisen because the EU refused a deal offered as long ago as October by the UK.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:49 am
by manfred
I think there will be endless cases like this until the referendum is a distant memory...

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:21 pm
by Fernando
manfred wrote:We even have computer programs making exchange rate decisions, often based on nothing more that casual pronouncements of politicians.The sudden drop in the pound a couple of weeks back was apparently caused by such a program....
Now shown to be as you said, Manfred
However, an investigation by the Bank of International Settlements has blamed the crash on badly managed automated computer trading platforms and inexperienced Asian-based currency traders.

They also blamed a report in the Financial Times, which said that that French president Francois Hollande was demanding that Britain 'suffer the consequences' of its vote to quit the European Union, just as the currency's fall gathered pace.

It came at a time when Remainers were claiming that Brexit could crash the economy and cut Britain adrift from the rest of the world.

The BIS said the story in the newspaper, regarded as the 'voice of the city' may have had an impact 'at the margins', although robot traders and panicking Asian office staff played the key role.
Personally, I wouldn't discount either profiteering or malice. as well - especially in view of Hollande's involvement and Soros lurking behind the scenes.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:25 pm
by Fernando
The shafting continues...
Supreme Court judges thwart will of 17M Britons! May CAN'T trigger Brexit without MPs vote
THERESA MAY must gain the approval of MPs and unelected peers before triggering Brexit, the Supreme Court ruled today.

In a verdict upholding a High Court decision, the UK’s most senior court this morning dismissed the Government’s appeal against last November’s verdict.

By a majority of eight to three, the Supreme Court judges ruled the Government must gain an Act of Parliament before triggering Article 50.

But the Supreme Court boosted the Government by ruling devolved parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do not need to vote on Article 50 before Brexit can begin.

The verdict represents a major blow to Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon's fight against her country being taken out of the EU.

The pound dipped in value on currency markets following this morning's verdict but later staged a fightback.
So, it's one-up for Wicked Witch money-woman Gina Miller - but at least it's one in the eye for Wicked Witch fish-wife Nicola Sturgeon.
Already the fish-eyed leader of that rump of a political party the Liberal "Democrats" will order their 100 or more unelected hangers-on in the House of "Lords" to try to overturn the result of the referendum.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:01 pm
by Fernando
This is not entirely off-topic: it's about the USA but there are parallels. The article is about the demise of the Trans Pacific Partnership under Trump: the author was unhappy in particular about one aspect of the discarded deal.
7. TPP’s promotion of the transnational-progressive agenda is not merely hortatory. Chapter 27 would establish an oversight entity, the “Trans-Pacific Partnership Commission,” with sweeping powers. It would be composed of unelected bureaucrats appointed by member countries and given jurisdiction over “any matter relating to the implementation or operation of this agreement” — including amendments or modifications of the agreement; the issuance of interpretive guidance on what provisions of the agreement mean; the establishment of tribunals and rules of procedure for resolving TPP disputes; and even the admission of new member states to the agreement. That is to say, the Commission would be empowered to turn the TPP into something different — even drastically different — from the deal to which the United States agreed. It is true that, when it comes to any modifications or additions of new members, the agreement nods to the right of TPP countries to “complete their respective applicable legal procedures.” This means, at least in theory, that if drastic changes effectively transformed TPP into a different agreement, Congress could get to vote on it again. Nevertheless, even without such U.S. constitutional compliance, the changes would be deemed to “enter into force” if six TPP countries approved them. To be sure, a TPP country would have the option of disregarding the entry into force of a modification it had not approved, or of withdrawing from the agreement. That said, the Commission would still be wielding significant powers with no meaningful democratic accountability to the American people. Perhaps that would be sensible — at least arguably — if TPP were truly limited to international trade. But as we’ve seen, TPP would implicate matters well beyond the scope of trade — e.g., immigration, environmental, and labor policies. That is to say: Because TPP is such a vast proposition, the degree of self-governance the United States could potentially cede to an unaccountable international commission would be impossible to quantify.
(my emphasis)
Talk about biter bit - this is just what the USA wanted to do to the countries of Europe under TTIP - with American companies calling the shots. All with the ready compliance of the Eurocrats who would, mostly, have done any of the USA's dirty work. ... undermined

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:05 pm
by Fernando
Meanwhile, back from the ranch...
Two related stories from the Daily Mail about two former denizens of Downing Street and their money-grubbing adventures. Heirs to Blair indeed! Here are just the headlines in case you are interested - I'll spare you the gory details and the eye-watering sums the architects of Project Fear are pocketing.
David Cameron cashes in on Brexit: Former Prime Minister has been paid tens of thousands of pounds for attending a private breakfast advising hedge fund managers on the consequences of leaving the EU
A shameless ex-Chancellor: GUY ADAMS exposes the damning extent of Osborne's murky relationship with the Treasury and the finance giant that's just given him a six-figure job

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:46 pm
by Fernando
A couple of interesting points on the referendum from commenters on a Breitbart article.
Kid Spotlight • 2 hours ago
The greatest error / scam (delete where applicable) was to allow the EU referendum to be declared by regions. It was a UK national vote, and all the voting papers should have been transferred via secure transport to a counting centre in the Midlands. The count would not begin until the Sunday 26th June when every voting paper had reached the centre. Then all bags / boxes would be mixed up randomly and emptied randomly at different tables. And at the end a UK result declared. If we had done that it would have saved 95% of the bs from remoaners, and shut up Sturgeon & Khan into the bargain.

auntyedna Kid Spotlight • 24 minutes ago
Talking of regions, also bear in mind that if this had been a first-past-the-post ballot, the Brexit-ers would have won by 69:31, not 52:48. That's a "landslide" in my book

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:17 pm
by Hombre
From what I have been reading and watching news from Europe. Brexit is victory to those Nationalistic like nigel Farage. That can not be said as good for the economic effect on GBR after the Brexit.

Canary Wharf in London was developed as Europe's financial hub, where many international financial institution have their HQ. Now, they have to move elsewhere in EU. Expect lots of office vacancy there.

Another example is fate of AirBus Industries when GBR is also has stake in it. Every part manufactured in GBR could be subject to customs by EU.

Notwithstanding the hassle with visa & border control. Nonetheless I fully understand the British sentiment. The timing & recent terror attacks in Europe from Muslim thug is the real reason behind the Brexit - not because a polish, or Romanian doctors decide to move to London, work & live there.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:06 am
by Fernando
It's not just that, Hombre. Something that may not be apparent from an American viewpoint, where many things are derived from Britain, is the difference in ways of doing things between the UK and much of Europe. Their legal system is Napoleonic, for instance. They are (even) more bureaucratic but care less for their bureaucrats: if they don't like an EU law, they ignore it. Whereas in the UK it's likely to be rigorously enforced. Probably even more rigorously than the EU expected: there's even a term for it, "gold plating".
Perhaps more to the point, in the UK the Sir Humphrey's may twist ministers round their little fingers, but they are not allowed to make laws. Under the EU, the Eureaucrats initiate the laws and the parliament rubber-stamps them. Worse, those Eureaucrats are besieged by vast hordes of lobbyists for multinational firms - and had TTIP not be scuppered, we'd have had multinational firms able to take national governments to secret bureaucratic courts. Potentially forcing the British government to hand over chunks of the NHS to them, for instance.
So, really, it always was a marriage made in hell. We should have remained just (very) good friends but now the Eureaucrats are determined to thwart a friendly separation.

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:21 am
by Fernando
What can I say? "I don't believe it", perhaps? I was surprised when May flew straight from Trump's arms into those of Erdogan and started talking about trade deals but I never dreamed of anything like this claim.
REVEALED: Turkey seeks free trade deal with Britain in exchange for freedom of movement
Previously unreported comments by the Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim suggest the country wants to broker a deal that would allow its citizens to move freely between Turkey and the UK.
“But in principle we are always in favour of four areas of freedom,” he said referring to the proposed free trade deal.

“Free circulation of human beings, free circulation of capital, free circulation of services and free circulation of goods.

“If we can assure this then global health, global wealth and global peace can be ensured and we can decrease those areas of problems. I think this should be the long-term objective of all countries.”
Yes, we've heard that before - wealth provided by the dhummis and peace under a universal Caliphate. With Erdogan as tin-pot Caliph, no doubt. I just hope the Express is making it up. Or perhaps the fool thought he was negotiating his way into the EU, not realising we were on the way out?

Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:15 pm
by Fernando
Sedition? Traitor?

Maybe not, technically, but the BBC is saying
Tony Blair calls for people to 'rise up' against Brexit

Taking us into an illegal war
Opening floodgates to immigration for political purposes
and now trying to overthrow a democratic referendum result and so open the floodgates even wider to let in Merkel's millions.
What are the Leftitst rent-a-mobs going to make of his call to "rise up"? They're hardly likely to dismiss it as a "right-wing" Blairite trick, more likely they'll conclude he's been a crypto-Corbynite all along and rush to man the barricades alongside him.
The BBC, of course, is plugging his speech for all it's worth - although oddly the above article headlines "rise up" but doesn't actually quote it. The Guardian, however, gives us what was evidently a pre-release of the text
"This is not the time for retreat, indifference or despair, but the time to rise up in defence of what we believe.”
A little more, this time from Breitbart
Mr Blair also launched an impassioned defence of globalisation, saying: “This is not the time for retreat, indifference or despair; but the time to rise up in defence of what we believe.

“How hideously, in this debate, is the mantle of patriotism abused. We do not argue for Britain in Europe because we are citizens of nowhere.

“We argue for it precisely because we are proud citizens of our country who believe that in the 21st Century, we should maintain our partnership with the biggest political union and largest commercial market right on our doorstep; not in diminution of our national interest, but in satisfaction of it.”

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson responded to the speech by lambasting Mr Blair’s “bare-faced effrontery”.

“I call on the British people to rise up and turn off the TV when Tony Blair next appears with his condescending campaign,” he said.