Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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glitch
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by glitch »

Hombre wrote:Lets face it, immigrations throughout history has been beneficial to mankind, and Britten has its share with that too. Just look those countries which were created by English who immigrated there. Australia, NZL, Canada, and yes US too.

I don't think one can compare - say a polish, Romanian, Germen or French with good profession who immigrates to UK for better job, to an uneducated fundamentalist Muslim from Pakistan, or East India. The first group is much more prone to integrate him/herself in English societies, and adapt its cultural, political system, and overall philosophy of life then the 2nd group.

The problem of immigration become acute when someone comes to your home, enjoys the hospitality, then in opportune time turns against your values - moreover, use of violence to accomplish his objective.

That is the problem with Muslims. They are indoctrinated that, Wherever they go, they are obligated to force their Islamic values on local population. If I read the Brits correctly, the real problem is with fundamentalist Islam and its insidious effect on British way of life and as pointed out, by equestrian, its cultural & way of life.
hey Hombre, did the immigrations of Jordanians and Egyptiona to Isreal turn out to be beneficial? Did they? Disreali?

idesigner1
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by idesigner1 »

Brexit had big support of native Brits in country side in comparison to big city immigrant population for obvious reasons.

Native Brits especially skilled labors resented open immigration policies of EU. Polish and other Eastern European tradesman were taking their jobs as they were willing to accept lower wages as carpenters plumbers electricians etc. This is the crux of matter.Also . Open immigration from Western European countries was not as welcome as one thinks. Being only English speaking, by and large, Brits didn't like to live and work or settle in continental Europe whether it's Italy, France or Germany. Here they felt disadvantaged. But competetion of skilled workers from Eastern European countries hit them in guts.Issue is not as simple as one thinks " whites and Christians won't be resented and welcome in U.K.Where as skilled Asians won't be welcome or can't be absorbed. This is myth. Well compare white under class of West Virginia, who is not computer savvy with a young white guy working for Google or face book in Silence con valley making One million dollars a year! Nothing common there! Or Bangladeshi Muslim rickshaw puller and a Muslim Sheik living in London!!


I don't mean to say that small town Brits welcome Asian immigrants but they were there for decades and have got used to them and didn't pose competetion in skilled trades.

UK can stop so called " chain migration " of relatives and introduce point system like Canada. At a same time they can put stop accepting refugees or make it strict.

I am not against low class or less educated beer drinking, tobacco spitting white people trying to save their jobs when they faced with unfair competetio from equally poor immigrants!! :D But like Trump's USA , they blindly believe their FAKE leaders who promote guest workers who depress wages and then blame immigrant labor.Right solution is to pay more to your own labor, bite the bullet but don't import cheap labor or cheap goods.

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manfred
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by manfred »

At first a lot of people had some hope of some real changes in the UK, but to me at least it is becoming increasingly clear that the referendum result will be carefully dismantled, and in the end it will be as if it never happened.
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Ariel
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Ariel »

Billionaire George Soros to begin massive campaign meddling in UK politics

George Soros is financing a campaign to begin in the next few days to push for a second referendum to go against the will of the British people, who already, in the largest voter turnout in UK history, have voted to leave the EU. His campaign directly goes against what was already decided upon in the 2016 vote. However, as a foreigner, he believes he knows better what the British public want.

We now have a bizarre situation where a man who has funded the democratic party in the US, and is behind some of the accusations against the Russians of meddling in the US election, despite there being no evidence of such, is now meddling in UK elections.

Mr. Soros has suggested that the UK had not yet conclusively decided whether it wanted to leave the EU. He said: “Ultimately, it’s up to the British people to decide what they want to do.

“It would be better however if they came to a decision sooner rather than later. That’s the goal of an initiative called the ‘Best for Britain’, which I support.

“Best for Britain fought for, and helped to win, a meaningful parliamentary vote which includes the option of not leaving at all.”

His comments came in a speech at a summit organised by the European Council on Foreign Relations think tank in Paris, as if he didn’t realise that we already did decide what we want to do.

His goal, to preserve the European Union seems to be completely oblivious to what is happening all across Europe, with many other countries likely on their way out of the EU, as well.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.

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Fernando
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Fernando »

manfred wrote:At first a lot of people had some hope of some real changes in the UK, but to me at least it is becoming increasingly clear that the referendum result will be carefully dismantled, and in the end it will be as if it never happened.
It seems that immigration from the EU has gone down, but from the rest of the world it has gone up. I don't think this is what people voted for, but I always feared that EU migrants would just be replaced. The lunatic politicians can't understand the difference between nation GDP and per-capita GDP. Or maybe they just can't face being the kings of a castle that isn't growing quickly enough for their majesties (let alone smaller)?
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Ariel
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Ariel »

Image
Revealed: plans for Doomsday Brexit

Food, petrol and medicines would run out in a no-deal scenario

Britain would be hit with shortages of medicine, fuel and food within a fortnight if the UK tries to leave the European Union without a deal, according to a Doomsday Brexit scenario drawn up by senior civil servants for David Davis.

Whitehall has begun contingency planning for the port of Dover to collapse “on day one” if Britain crashes out of the EU, leading to critical shortages of supplies.

Last month officials in Davis’s Brexit department and the departments of health and transport drew up scenarios for a no-deal Brexit — a mild one, a severe one and one dubbed “Armageddon”.

A source said: “In the second scenario, not even the worst, the port of Dover will collapse on day one. The supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland will run out of food within a couple of days, and hospitals will run out of medicines within two weeks.”

Officials would have to charter aircraft, or use the RAF to ferry supplies to the furthest corners of the UK. “You would have to medevac medicine into Britain, and at the end of week two we would be running out of petrol as well,” the source said.

Concern about chaos at Dover was behind a decision by Highways England to announce plans last month to build “one or more lorry holding areas” in Kent “to reduce the congestion caused by cross-Channel disruption”.

It is understood that the papers were prepared for the so-called Inter-Ministerial Group on Preparedness, which meets weekly when parliament is sitting. One official said the scenarios are so explosive they have only been shared with a handful of ministers and are “locked in a safe”.

A spokesman for the Brexit department confirmed the discussions had taken place, but said it was “completely false” that the doomsday scenario would unfold: “A significant amount of work and decision-making has gone into our no-deal plans, especially where it relates to ports, and we know that none of this would come to pass.”

But the details were leaked by officials who believe Brexiteers are still too bullish about the prospect of walking away and trading on World Trade Organisation terms.

Brexiteers accused the civil service of peddling a new version of “Project Fear”. Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, said: “They are frozen in the headlights. They should be planning for what happens if there is no deal, not scaring the pants off each other. We need people with imagination and courage, not frightened rabbits.”

The government has said it would in effect throw open Britain’s borders in the event of a no-deal Brexit. But officials fear the EU, particularly the French, would not do the same.

A senior official said: “We are entirely dependent on Europe reciprocating our posture that we will do nothing to impede the flow of goods into the UK. If, for whatever reason, Europe decides to slow that supply down, then we’re screwed.”

Disrupting trade would lead to “reciprocal jeopardy”, with the French also running short of medicines, but officials believe that would take six months to have an effect. “The French are militant about borders,” a source added.

Davis has sought to persuade civic leaders in key ports such as Calais and Antwerp to tell their central governments that goods must keep flowing.

Layla Moran, a Liberal Democrat who speaks for the pro-remain group Best for Britain, called on the government to publish the documents. “We can now see that the government are driving us all towards disaster. What is worse is that they know it too,” she said.

Home secretary Sajid Javid said he did not recognise this scenario. Speaking on the Andrew Marr show this morning, he said: “I have to say I don’t recognise any bit of that at all and as home secretary . . . I am deeply involved in ‘no deal preparations’ as much as I am in getting a deal — I’m confident we will get a deal.

“From the work that I have seen and the analysis that has been done, those outcomes . . . I don’t think any of them would come to pass.”

He said the government was making progress with Brexit plans, adding: “I’m confident that as we get to the June council meeting the prime minister will have a good set of proposals and our colleagues in Europe will respond positively.”
But don't you worry dear friends, in the worst scenario we Dutch shall start food drops.
Tell me what you need. Bread ? Potatoes ? Wine? Dutch cheese, whiskey perhaps?


Here we are...Ready to save you.
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The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.

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Fernando
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Fernando »

Please send chips and mayonnaise, Ariel.
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Ariel
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Ariel »

Fernando wrote:Please send chips and mayonnaise, Ariel.

:hi: I will Fernando.
The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
but the heart of the fool to the left.

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Fernando
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Pot, Kettle, Black

Post by Fernando »

Meanwhile, Barnier has been reported as having described May's proposed Chequers "deal" as involving "insane and unjustifiable bureaucracy"
A bad proposal, but as for over-weening bureaucracy: he should know!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -proposals
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Hombre
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Hombre »

Ariel wrote:
Billionaire George Soros to begin massive campaign meddling in UK politics

George Soros is financing a campaign to begin in the next few days to push for a second referendum to go against the will of the British people, who already, in the largest voter turnout in UK history, have voted to leave the EU. His campaign directly goes against what was already decided upon in the 2016 vote. However, as a foreigner, he believes he knows better what the British public want.

We now have a bizarre situation where a man who has funded the democratic party in the US, and is behind some of the accusations against the Russians of meddling in the US election, despite there being no evidence of such, is now meddling in UK elections.

Mr. Soros has suggested that the UK had not yet conclusively decided whether it wanted to leave the EU. He said: “Ultimately, it’s up to the British people to decide what they want to do.

“It would be better however if they came to a decision sooner rather than later. That’s the goal of an initiative called the ‘Best for Britain’, which I support.

“Best for Britain fought for, and helped to win, a meaningful parliamentary vote which includes the option of not leaving at all.”

His comments came in a speech at a summit organised by the European Council on Foreign Relations think tank in Paris, as if he didn’t realise that we already did decide what we want to do.

His goal, to preserve the European Union seems to be completely oblivious to what is happening all across Europe, with many other countries likely on their way out of the EU, as well.
George Soro is a Hungarian born with dual citizenship - EU & US.

However, reading your post my lady. you seem to make a monster out of him - just because he expresses views to which they do not necessarily conform to your conservative values. As a businessman he has vast financial holdings throughout EU - therefore, he believes that breaking EU severely would affect his investments there. Moreover, he also believes (as I do) in the economy of scale. With GBR today EU is a juggernaut - a force to reckon with on world stage - rivaling that of US market.
Otherwise, I really don't see a problem with him opine his concern.

Please let's remember that one important reason for creating the union was to reduce further chance for future wars between nations in that continent.

Today we are a dynamic world - ever changing paradigm and standard. look what a difference the Internet has brought to us. Our children & grandchildren think and perceive the word for differently than you & I do.

I do understand that a 1000-year-old and former superpower, conservatives in GBR wish to conserve the same status quo. But at what price? It is clear that on the long run Brexit may harm GBR - because as competitors they will have to compete with the rest of the EU for commerce and trade dealing on global trade.

sum
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by sum »

Hello Hombre

Are you a Globalist?

sum

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Fernando
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Fernando »

Hombre wrote:George Soro is a Hungarian born with dual citizenship - EU & US.

However, reading your post my lady. you seem to make a monster out of him - just because he expresses views to which they do not necessarily conform to your conservative values. As a businessman he has vast financial holdings throughout EU - therefore, he believes that breaking EU severely would affect his investments there. Moreover, he also believes (as I do) in the economy of scale. With GBR today EU is a juggernaut - a force to reckon with on world stage - rivaling that of US market.
Otherwise, I really don't see a problem with him opine his concern.
Trump's a wealthy business man too, but evidently not rich enough for you to approve of him as you do of Soros. Who, btw, was never elected to anything - yes, even less elected than some of the EU's now-unelected appointees.
Please let's remember that one important reason for creating the union was to reduce further chance for future wars between nations in that continent.
An admirable aim, but not via one ring to rule them all, thank you.
Today we are a dynamic world - ever changing paradigm and standard. look what a difference the Internet has brought to us. Our children & grandchildren think and perceive the word for differently than you & I do.
Not, then, a brilliant idea to be ruled by ossified has-beens.

I do understand that a 1000-year-old and former superpower, conservatives in GBR wish to conserve the same status quo. But at what price with what benefit? It is clear that on the long run Brexit may harm benefit GBR - because as competitors they will have to compete be able to trade with the rest of the EU for commerce and trade dealing on world without barriers to global trade.[/quote]FIFY
‘Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs and literary traditions. They neither intermarry nor eat together, and indeed they belong to two different civilisations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions.’ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

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Hombre
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Hombre »

glitch wrote:
Hombre wrote:Lets face it, immigrations throughout history has been beneficial to mankind, and Britten has its share with that too. Just look those countries which were created by English who immigrated there. Australia, NZL, Canada, and yes US too.

I don't think one can compare - say a polish, Romanian, Germen or French with good profession who immigrates to UK for better job, to an uneducated fundamentalist Muslim from Pakistan, or East India. The first group is much more prone to integrate him/herself in English societies, and adapt its cultural, political system, and overall philosophy of life then the 2nd group.

The problem of immigration become acute when someone comes to your home, enjoys the hospitality, then in opportune time turns against your values - moreover, use of violence to accomplish his objective.

That is the problem with Muslims. They are indoctrinated that, Wherever they go, they are obligated to force their Islamic values on local population. If I read the Brits correctly, the real problem is with fundamentalist Islam and its insidious effect on British way of life and as pointed out, by equestrian, its cultural & way of life.
hey Hombre, did the immigrations of Jordanians and Egyptiona to Isreal turn out to be beneficial? Did they? Disreali?
Those Arabs who you dub "Egyptians & Jordanians" are the ones whom in 1948 chose to stay put and accept Israeli citizens.

Among them are the Druze & Chircasians - loved & respected by the rest of Israelis for heir distinguished military & other security services.

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Hombre
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Hombre »

sum wrote:Hello Hombre

Are you a Globalist?

sum
explain your understanding of "globalist" - then we will go from there.

sum
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by sum »

Hello Hombre

To me, Globalist means someone who prefers several, or more, nations all to be governed by a central body rather than individual nations governing themselves.

Over to you. Please explain your position regarding Globalism and Globalist and what you support.

sum

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manfred
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by manfred »

So globalism is not that different from colonialism then?
Jesus: "Ask and you will receive." Mohammed: "Take and give me 20%"

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Hombre
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Hombre »

sum wrote:Hello Hombre

To me, Globalist means someone who prefers several, or more, nations all to be governed by a central body rather than individual nations governing themselves.

Over to you. Please explain your position regarding Globalism and Globalist and what you support
sum
If that the case - abolish UN and see what happens. WWIII before you finish spelling your last name.

While I do concur that people should have their god-given right to live among those with whom he / she shares most common denominations - economically, politically, socially, ethnically or heritage. The important issue is, today we live in much more complex world - away from agricultural & basic industries which produce everyday commodity, to knowledge base societies. Products & services required for everyday life are by far more complex & too sophisticated requiring raw materials and expertise for one nation be able to produce all by itself. Oil, mega-ships, supper computers, and food production are just few examples.

Moreover, our global system of economy has become such competitive, and complex - such that nations (or states) need a common set of government to be able to form the economy of scale to complete and prevail. Classic example - US, EU, India & China. Therefore, nations need to exchange their products and service with other nations to prosper or maintain a reasonable quality of life.

On the political site. If few neighboring nations or states do share the same religious belief, form of government and common history - it is obvious they will more pron to come together then those who do not. A classic example is Western Europe, USA who believe in democracy, free market economies and Christianity vs. Israel and its neighboring states who share no such attributes.

On security side: If we examine Europe, until mid 40's it was embroiled in bloody wars going back to 11th century. City-municipalities fighting each other. It all ended when they decided to pull their resources and form Italy France, Germany etc.

What you seem to miss is the dramatic paradigm shift in global power. Former Supper powers & other colonialist like England, Spain, Portugal Holland Belgium and Ottoman, who ruled others - today at the cusp of themselves could be dominated by their former colonies. Example of England vs. China & India.

The bottom line which I am trying to explain. Our world of today is by for complex which has eclipsed narrow mindless and school of thought to which you seem to promote.

sum
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by sum »

Hello Hombre

Your quote -
Our world of today is by for complex which has eclipsed narrow mindless and school of thought to which you seem to promote.

Thanks for the complement.

You presented a lot of words but did not say if you were a globalist. Are you?

sum

sum
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by sum »

Hello manfred

Your quote -
So globalism is not that different from colonialism then?

In some ways, slightly similar. Most similarity would be with Islamic colonialism. It would be less so with British colonialism as I am not aware that the same rules and taxes were the same in all the colonies.

Globalism is by the indoctrinated will of the people and nation` governments. Colonialism is by force.

sum

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Hombre
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Re: Now that Brexit Succeeded...

Post by Hombre »

sum wrote:Hello Hombre

Your quote -
Our world of today is by for complex which has eclipsed narrow mindless and school of thought to which you seem to promote.

Thanks for the complement.

You presented a lot of words but did not say if you were a globalist. Are you?

sum
I thought your cognitive process is more then just a black & white. Sorry if my post went over your head.

The reason I spent the time trying to tell you just that. By and large - economically, I am what you call "a globalist" I do believe in global economy with commerce and exchange of products, services among nations, and yes - ideas too. Politically - all depends on case by case basis.

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