News from France.

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

The response from the French government will give an insight into how the non-muslim world will, in the future, either face down the worldwide muslim protests or surrender. Muslim are clearly increasing in confidence so that they are now prepared to challenge the West and raise the stakes.

I feel that the tipping point is now and not in the future. If the muslims can not be faced down now then they will never be in the future. It would be game over.

What has the West got to lose? All its centuries of culture including all the magnificant historic buildings and its science and technology. What has Islam got to lose in the West? Nothing, absolutely nothing, of importance. Nothing. The losses would be entirely those of the West.

I think that our politicians are aware of this and put off what would eventually lead to civil war where the winner takes all.

It could end up doing nothing to combat muslim threats and aggression and drift into an Islamic state, or, fight and accept losses but retain the European and Western culture.

I know that some of us are getting on a bit but all this could happen in the years that we have left.

sum
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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

The conquest of Europe is in full swing (again).

Not with an army of soldiers and weapons but with Muslim "refugees" migrants, mainly military-aged young men who were invited by socialist leaders like Merkel, Macron et al.
And they are still coming.

I am also expecting Erdogan to release all the migrants from Turkey to Europe quite soon as a reply to Macron's speech.

I do not think the European governments will do anything to stop the flood of migrants.
Expelling them in large numbers also will be impossible.

Not looking good.

How to deal with Muslims? Ask China.
Last edited by pr126 on Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:The response from the French government will give an insight into how the non-muslim world will, in the future, either face down the worldwide muslim protests or surrender. Muslim are clearly increasing in confidence so that they are now prepared to challenge the West and raise the stakes.

The vast majority of the world's Muslim have NOT come out in the streets in protest against France. Macron can point to this fact and assert that only a tiny minority of fanatics are therefore angered about the cartoons and most of the world's Muslims are cool about them and that the overriding French principle of freedom of speech therefore stands.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

pr126 wrote:I am also expecting Erdogan to release all the migrants from Turkey to Europe quite soon as a reply to Macron's speech.
Europe needs to have a quiet word with this angry resentful irredentist would-be Sultan and tell him that if he does this they will move to recognise Kurdistan as an independent state under their military protection and support other troublesome groups within Turkey, as well as crush his weak economy with crippling sanctions.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

While the leftist educators are creating non-binary, gender-queer trans people and Marxist activist, the Muslims are right to think that the west is ripe for taking over.

What do you think? Can the millennials do anything about that?
Not a chance. That would be racist, you bigot islamophobe.

BTW, Erdogan thinks that he has 1.6 billion Muslims behind him ready to fight for his cause. No wonder he is cocky.

It's called the "Muslim World". Funny. Another planet?
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

Your quote -
The vast majority of the world's Muslim have NOT come out in the streets in protest against France.

I agree that the VAST majority of muslims have not come out onto the streets but many muslims in several countries have come out. I claim that they probably represent the majority of muslims.

Your quote -
Macron can point to this fact and assert that only a tiny minority of fanatics are therefore angered about the cartoons and most of the world's Muslims are cool about them and that the overriding French principle of freedom of speech therefore stands.

This is only wishful thinking. I do not think that you can speak for the majority of muslims and claim that they are cool about the cartoons.

sum
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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

The majority of Muslims, even if they did not come out to protest, cannot object to the Islamic law (sharia) because the scriptures are against them.
They are not going to risk punishment if they side with the kuffar.

So they are keeping their heads down and letting the militants get on with it.
Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:I agree that the VAST majority of muslims have not come out onto the streets but many muslims in several countries have come out. I claim that they probably represent the majority of muslims.
You may well be right. I do not for moment believe that rage about the cartoons and Macron's (apparent) support for freedom to mock Islam and its prophet is confined to the frenzied zombies out on the streets across the Muslim world - any more than I believe that pro-sharia sentiments in Muslim immigrant populations are confined to those who openly express them. However, the questionable claim that the overt fanatics represent a tiny proportion of Muslim opinion can, as it is not easy to disprove, be exploited in support artistic freedom.
This is only wishful thinking. I do not think that you can speak for the majority of muslims and claim that they are cool about the cartoons.
If Macron says "most Muslims are cool about the cartoons and those who support murdering people who mock Muhammad are a tiny unrepresentative minority" who is going to contradict him? Is the leader of the French Socialists going to say "Non! Most Muslims, including in France, support the beheading of the teacher"? That would provide an unassailable argument for banning Muslim immigration all together and indeed, banning Islam in Europe completely.
Last edited by antineoETC on Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

pr126 wrote:The majority of Muslims, even if they did not come out to protest, cannot object to the Islamic law (sharia) because the scriptures are against them.
Ditto, my above answer to Sum.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

As I have already said, this should be the time to quote the Koran`s verses that justify beheading. There would be no need to argue over whether or not the majority of muslims support beheading.

The verses in the Koran that tell the muslims that they can not pick and choose which verses to accept or reject should also be quoted.

Muslims have no choice but to accept every verse in the Koran including the verses of violence. To reject these is to render oneself a hypocrite or even an apostate. The punishment for these Islamic sins keeps muslims in line and under control.

Islam can not reach a compromise as it is programmed to conquer all non-muslim peoples and lands and establish global sharia in perpetuity.

Is there a non-muslim politician anywhere who is prepared to quote the Koran to the public?

sum
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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

Looks like the US, Russia and France are ganging up on Turkey.




Islam: an idea to kill and die for.
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:As I have already said, this should be the time to quote the Koran`s verses that justify beheading.
And you will likely be met with something like THIS

Muslims have no choice but to accept every verse in the Koran including the verses of violence. To reject these is to render oneself a hypocrite or even an apostate.
However, the Quran says:

to those who do wrong in ignorance, but who thereafter repent and make amends,- thy Lord, after all this, is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (16:219,).

We don't want to create more terrorists by convincing ignorant, but otherwise devout, Muslims that Allah will burn them in hell if they do not carry out the Quran's order to strike the necks of the kuffar.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

There are very good arguments from the Reliance of the Traveller that would destroy your attempts via your post to claim that there are no verses in the Koran or ahadith that suggest that muslims should be aggressors. Do you really believe that the Koran has no verses that demand offensive jihad?

I have to admit that I am very surprised at your stance of making it a futile exercise to claim that Islam is practicing offensive jihad because muslims claim that there is no evidence for that in the Koran.

All you have to do to wage war against Allah is to reject the invitation to embrace Islam. This gives the muslims a divine right to attack you.

This is why OBL invited Bush to accept Islam because if Bush ignored the invitation muslims had a divine right to attach Bush and the USA.

sum
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:Do you really believe that the Koran has no verses that demand offensive jihad
I think the primary understanding of the word "jihad" among Muslims is and always has been that of an offensive war against disbelievers to spread the domain of Islam, during which Muslims are given license to plunder and rape as a god-given right. There is ZERO Quranic evidence to support jihad as an "inner struggle" - Allah commands the "prophet" to strive against "the disbelievers and hypocrites" not against his inner demons. Certainly there is no Quranic justification for extending the definition of "jihad' to any field of endevor like doing your homework - which is what one Muslim schoolgirl I once saw on TV said it meant to HER. That said, if some Muslims want to delude themselves that jihad can mean any innocuous activity they want it to, that it preferable to them preferring its traditional meaning and acting on it. What is important is that non-Muslims are not persuaded to join Islam on the basis of self-deluding Muslims' personal Quranically unsupportable "nice" definitions of "jihad".

I have not been able to find any Quranic passage that CLEARLY equates the word "striving" with "fighting". However, this is irrelevant as the Qu'ran contains clear commands for Muslims to fight and kill, which cannot seriously be interpreted metaphorically.
All you have to do to wage war against Allah is to reject the invitation to embrace Islam. This gives the muslims a divine right to attack you.
The Quran orders Muslims to warn those who hear the words of Allah recited who reject Islam of a "painful punishment". Elsewhere in the text, Allah promises disbelievers a painful punishment in this world as well as the hereafter FOR NO OTHER REASON than their disbelief. However, I have never been able to find any passage in the Quran that can be held up to clearly support the contention that the infliction of the Allah's worldly punishment for nothing more than disbelief should be carried out by the Muslims, rather than left to Allah alone.
This is why OBL invited Bush to accept Islam because if Bush ignored the invitation muslims had a divine right to attach Bush and the USA.
But was he doing so solely on the basis of the Qura'n or was he also taking guidance from the hadith? Or was he acting according to a derived standard formula?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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SAM
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Re: News from France.

Post by SAM »

antineoETC wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:16 am
I have not been able to find any Quranic passage that CLEARLY equates the word "striving" with "fighting".

However, I have never been able to find any passage in the Quran that can be held up to clearly support the contention that the infliction of the Allah's worldly punishment for nothing more than disbelief should be carried out by the Muslims, rather than left to Allah alone.
You also unable to find any passage in the Quran where the verse says that if Muslims find their religion mocked they should simply leave the presence of the mocker..especially those who mock Muhammad.

I demand answers... "why f * cking Christian took no action in the Talmudic writings that Jesus was the son of a bastard and his mother a prostitute."

2 Chronicles 36

15 Again and again the LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to His people through His messengers because He had compassion on them and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despising His words and scoffing at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD against His people was stirred up beyond remedy.
Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.
Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance."
(2:120)
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello SAM

Please stop trying to change the subject onto Christianity.

Go back and answer my questions.

How many times do you need to be given the Koranic verse that contradicts what you claim about muslims leaving those who criticise or mock Islam? You are still running away like a true loser.

sum
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

SAM wrote:You also unable to find any passage in the Quran where the verse says that if Muslims find their religion mocked they should simply leave the presence of the mocker..especially those who mock Muhammad.
SAM, I have already absolutely accepted your assertion that the Quran passage that SUM provided does NOT say the above bit in bold. Furthermore, I totally accept that the quote from Umar ibn al-khattab you provided lays out the proper Islamic response to mocking Muhammad and that, therefore, all true believing Muslims like yourself support the killing of the French school teacher as an action pleasing to Allah.

Yep, you beat me SAM! BTW What is the primary source of that quote from Umar where he says to kill people who mock Muhammad?

Note to any people thinking of "reverting" to Islam: DON'T, if you have a problem with cutting someone's head off for showing a cartoon.

Note to any Muslims out there who are genuinely appalled and disgusted by the recent murder of the French schoolteacher: You seriously need to ask yourself if you want to continue to belong to a religion that promotes such bestiality as godly acts.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello antineoETC

SAM changed his question after his initial question which had NOT included the word Muhammad. I replied with a very specific Koranic answer which completely answered his initial question. He continues to ignore this. He is devious and a distorter of obvious facts. He is nothing more than an irritation and a troll. He hasn`t the slightest interest in truth. In other words, he is a typical brainwashed muslim.

All SAM has to do is read the Reliance of the traveller and it will explain all to him.

All SAM has to do is read Pakistan`s blasphemy laws and see what they say.

He can then tell us if the Reliance of the Traveller and the blasphemy laws of Pakistan are wrong.

Come back, SAM, and tell us.

sum
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

sum wrote:All SAM has to do is read the Reliance of the traveller and it will explain all to him.

All SAM has to do is read Pakistan`s blasphemy laws and see what they say.
The truth is you don't need to read any book, not even the Qur'an, to get the lowdown on Islam. You just have to see what's going on in the world. Our progressive politicos are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think we are all just going to ignore all this sh!t and automatically assume that Mr Khan in the local convenience store is a "moderate" who wouldn't harm a fly just coz he's not presently clutching a machete in one hand and somebody's head in the other.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

Is anybody aware of any mass Muslim participation in demonstrations AGAINST the recent atrocities in France? Any pictures of hijabis and niqabis waving placards proclaiming "Kafir Lives Matter"?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website
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