News from France.

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.
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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

This is the terrorist. They say it is a migrant from tunisia who came to France via Lampedusa.

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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

France: Three stabbed to death

Three people have died in a knife attack at a church in Nice, in what French President Emmanuel Macron said was an "Islamist terrorist attack".

He said France would not surrender its core values after visiting the Notre-Dame basilica in the southern city. More troops are being deployed to protect churches and schools.

In Nice, one elderly victim was "virtually beheaded", officials said. Another woman and a man also died.

A male suspect was shot and detained.

Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi spoke of "Islamo-fascism" and said the suspect had "repeated endlessly 'Allahu Akbar' (God is greatest)".

Two other attacks took place on Thursday, one in France and one in Saudi Arabia.

A man was shot dead in Montfavet near the southern French city of Avignon after threatening police with a handgun.

Separately, a guard was attacked outside the French consulate in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. A suspect was arrested and the guard taken to hospital.
What is known about the attack in Nice?

Two of those who died were attacked inside the church, the elderly woman and a man who was found with his throat cut, reports said.

A woman managed to flee to a nearby cafe after being stabbed several times, but died later.

It later emerged that a witness had managed to raise the alarm with a special protection system set up by the city.

Chloe, a witness who lives near the church, told the BBC: "We heard many people shouting in the street. We saw from the window that there were many, many policemen coming, and gunshots, many gunshots."

Tom Vannier, a journalism student who arrived at the scene just after the attack, told the BBC that people were crying on the street.
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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

Why are these terrorist pretend to be Muslims? They are giving peaceful Islam a bad name.
We all know that Islam is not to blame.

But seriously, looks like people had enough of the peaceful religion(ist).

But according to this video, some non-Muslims want more Islam.

Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

sum
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Re: News from France.

Post by sum »

Hello pr126

Bearing in mind the quote from Churchill below, what stage do you think that we have reached?

Winston Churchill wrote:
If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves.

sum

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

sum wrote:
Bearing in mind the quote from Churchill below, what stage do you think that we have reached?
What can I say? See for yourself.

I am not an optimist.

Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

Orthodox priest shot at church in France; attacker at large

LYON, France (AP) — A Greek Orthodox priest was shot Saturday while he was closing his church in the French city of Lyon, and authorities locked down part of the city to hunt for the assailant, authorities said.

The priest, a Greek citizen, is in a local hospital with life-threatening injuries after being shot twice in the abdomen, a police official told The Associated Press. The attacker was alone and fired from a hunting rifle, said the official, who was not authorized to be publicly named.

Police cordoned off the largely residential neighborhood around the church and warned the public on social networks to stay away. As night fell on Lyon, an Associated Press reporter saw police tape and emergency vehicles throughout the neighborhood. National police tweeted that “a serious public security incident” was under way.

The reason for the shooting was unclear. It happened two days after an Islamic extremist knife attack at a Catholic church in the French city of Nice that killed three people, and amid ongoing geopolitical tensions caricatures mocking the Muslim Prophet Muhammad published in satirical French newspaper Charlie Hebdo.

French anti-terrorist authorities were following the case but not investigating Saturday’s shooting. The interior minister activated a special emergency team to monitor the manhunt, and the Lyon prosecutor opened an investigation for attempted murder.

“No theory is favored, no theory is ruled out,” Lyon Mayor Gregory Doucet told reporters at the scene. “We don’t know at this stage the motive for this attack.”

Antoine Callot, the pastor at another Greek Orthodox church in Lyon, identified the wounded priest as Nikolas Kakavelakis, a 45-year-old father of two. Callot told The Associated Press that the Greek Orthodox community in Lyon has not received any threats, but said he immediately asked police for security protection at his church after the shooting.

“We are anxious and anguished. It’s really horrible,” he said. “Now we need to hide and be careful.”

Residents and a local police patrol heard shots near the church, and when officers arrived they saw an individual running away and found the wounded priest by the back door of the church, the Lyon prosecutor said in a statement.

Prime Minister Jean Castex reiterated government promises to deploy military forces at religious sites and schools. He said French people can “count on the nation to allow them to practice their religion in full safety and freedom.”

The government has been promising extra security at churches, mosques and other religious sites for several days now, but AP reporters have seen little visible sign of an increased police or military presence. No one was guarding the church targeted Saturday in Lyon, or the church attacked in Nice on Thursday.

Seeking to calm tensions and to explain France’s defense of the prophet cartoons, President Emmanuel Macron gave an interview broadcast Saturday on Arabic network Al-Jazeera. Macron also tweeted that “our country has no problem with any religion. They are all practiced here freely! No stigmatization: France is committed to peace and living together in harmony.” :wot:
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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

And an hour after the shooting this IS poster appeared on internet

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antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

The [French] government has been promising extra security at churches, mosques and other religious sites for several days now, but AP reporters have seen little visible sign of an increased police or military presence.
Seeing as Muslims are the world's most threatened victimized group, the French government should give priority to surrounding all mosques in France with barbed wire and troops to stop ANYBODY entering them for an indefinite time period on the premise that far-right terrorists disguised as Muslims could enter and harm peace-loving ISIS-rejecting Muslims who make up vast majority in mosque congregations. Anybody seeking to force entry into the indefinitely closed mosques should be regarded as potential far-right Islamophobe terrorists and shot.

After all Qur'an 22:40 states:

Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another there would surely have been pulled down monasteries churches synagogues and mosques in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure

So Allah would obviously approve of my above proposal. Isn't that right SAM?
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

The Shameful Silence on France

From above-linked article: is surely an indictment of the West’s cowardly culture of silence in relation to Islamist extremism that it feels odd to hear a Western leader firmly use the i-word – Islamist – to describe one of these acts.

Slight alteration:

IslamiST

Islami..

IslamiC

That's more like it.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

The problem is in numbers.

A small number of Muslims are peaceful.
The more their numbers increase the more confident, violent and demanding they get.

France has exceeded the "tipping point" where Muslims now feel strong enough to start [defensive] jihad.
In fact, Europe has already passed the tipping point with over 50 million Muslims.

European leaders (and most Europeans) do not understand Islam at all.
They think Islam is just a religion like all others.
It is not. It is unique from all others. It is a supremacist, imperialist political ideology dressed in religious garb.

Europeans will learn the hard way. 14 centuries of history has been forgotten or never learned.

Whatever happens, Islam, the ideology will never be blamed as the cause for all this.

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

Learn Islam! For your own good.

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antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

UK "anti-hate' organizations condemns France attack.

Better than nothing, but don't expect this group to make any serious effort to understand what drives this bestial behavior, which is essential to combatting it.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

Islam a gift that keeps on giving.

Another terrorist attack. Not the last...

Islam: an idea to kill and die for.

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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

pr126 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:14 am
The problem is in numbers.

France has exceeded the "tipping point" where Muslims now feel strong enough to start [defensive] jihad.
France has 5 million Muslim citizens (just under 9 per cent of its population). That is a lot.
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antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

pr126 wrote:France has exceeded the "tipping point" where Muslims now feel strong enough to start [defensive] jihad.
Jihad is never really defensive. Muslims from Muhammad onwards have always framed their aggression as a RESPONSE to the aggression and provocation of their victims. If one does not accept Muhammad had a divine mandate then he was clearly the initiator of hostilities with the Meccan polytheists when he started harassing them at their own pagan shrine - denying their right to use it as the pagan shrine it had always been and demanding that they hand it over to him for the worship of Allah alone.

If one DOES accept that Muhammad was a prophet then, logically, everything he did was justified simply because he did it and beheading a teacher for showing kids a cartoon mocking Muhammad is a morally just act of law enforcement rather than a damnable act of murder. Hence our current problems.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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pr126
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Re: News from France.

Post by pr126 »

antineoETC wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:39 am
pr126 wrote:France has exceeded the "tipping point" where Muslims now feel strong enough to start [defensive] jihad.
Jihad is never really defensive. Muslims from Muhammad onwards have always framed their aggression as a RESPONSE to the aggression and provocation of their victims. If one does not accept Muhammad had a divine mandate then he was clearly the initiator of hostilities with the Meccan polytheists when he started harassing them at their own pagan shrine - denying their right to use it as the pagan shrine it had always been and demanding that they hand it over to him for the worship of Allah alone.
I thought that offensive jihad can only be initiated by a caliph. That is why defensive jihad is a duty for all Muslims.

The types of jihad
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Ariel
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Re: News from France.

Post by Ariel »

France’s all-powerful state is as powerless against violent Islamism as it is against the coronavirus

When an old lady was beheaded in a church in Nice on 29 October while saying her prayers, and a sacristan and a third victim were murdered with a knife, the number of deaths from Islamic terrorism in France since 2012 rose to 270.

The best known of these victims are the 12 people killed in the attacks at the offices of the magazine Charlie Hebdo in January 2015; the company boss decapitated in June 2015; the 90 victims of the Bataclan theatre massacre of November 2015; the two police officials whose throats were slit in front of their young son in June 2016; the priest whose throat was slit while saying Mass in July 2016; the 86 holidaymakers mowed down by a truck on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice in August 2016; the policeman who exchanged himself for a hostage and had his throat slit in March 2018; the four police officers murdered inside the prefecture of police in Paris by one of their colleagues in October 2019; the schoolteacher decapitated on 16 October 2020; and now this second attack in Nice.

Like the previous attacks, this one has inspired widespread revulsion. But the tone has changed. Numerous opposition politicians have started to say that candlelit vigils are not enough. Even though some ministers have continued to repeat sentimental banalities about unity and solidarity, others have also started to say things that were not said before. In particular, the Interior Minister, Gérald Darmanin, said after an axe attack in September – not among those I have mentioned above – that France was “at war” with Islamic terrorism, while, on Thursday, Emmanuel Macron said in Nice that France herself had been attacked.

Such martial vocabulary is new. It is true that François Hollande declared a state of emergency after the Charlie Hebdo massacre, and set up a military operation called Sentinelle to improve security. But, in reality, it meant nothing more than bored soldiers walking around railway stations. Now, the Cassandras warning of incipient civil war are no longer limited to social conservatives such as Philippe de Villiers or opponents of immigration like Marine Le Pen, but include, spectacularly, people like Emmanuel Macron’s first Interior Minister, the former Socialist Party member, Gérard Collomb, who warned of it in 2018 when he resigned.

However, there is a grave danger associated with announcing a war and engaging in it: you might lose. This risk is serious for three reasons. First, the measures required to uproot the problem are far greater than those already mooted. When the schoolteacher was beheaded in October, the French government announced its desire to dissolve some Islamist organisations and close a couple of mosques with radical imams. But, as every counterinsurgency expert knows, you have to drain the swamp that breeds the terrorists or else new ones will come back as soon as you eliminate the existing ones.

This swamp includes, above all, the hundreds of lawless zones in France where, for decades, the police have not dared intervene, or have been prevented from doing so by their superiors. These zones are run by drug dealers, mafias, and Islamists. This intolerable situation has been tolerated, and has therefore been deteriorating, for many decades: Gérard Collomb said in 2018 that it would soon be too late to do anything about it. Maybe it already is.

The fact there is still no statement of any plan to resolve this indicates that the new strong words are designed only to hide the reality of a lack of any political will. On the contrary, the dominant force in the French political class remains precisely that political correctness which renders any such policy impossible. For decades the whole apparatus of the state has demonized those who criticize immigration or Islam, and this situation has not changed, even after the terrorist attacks. Prosecutions for incitement to Islamophobia continue to be brought, the most high profile being the latest conviction of journalist Éric Zemmour as recently as September 2020. Legal immigration into France – which the centrist Collomb identified as an ongoing security problem two years ago – continues at a rate of 200,000 a year, with the absolutely inevitable social consequences.

The absence of political will is therefore a major impediment. But even if there were such will, victory is far from assured. Failure is not only possible but probable, as recent events have shown. The last time Emmanuel Macron declared war was in March, when he announced drastic measures to fight Covid-19. France introduced lockdown – a curtailment of civil liberties not seen since the German occupation of France in the Second World War, in which various fundamental rights such as freedom of movement, of religion, and of assembly were summarily binned. Yet this gigantic, almost totalitarian deployment of state power, decided with the appropriate level of will and largely obeyed, has, in fact, been powerless to stop the spread of the virus, as President Macron effectively admitted when he announced a second lockdown the night before the Nice attack. In other words, the apparently all-powerful state is, in fact, as impotent against the coronavirus as against the virus of Islamism.

Thirdly and finally, the French political class, like its equivalents elsewhere in Europe, is metaphysically incapable of fighting this war. To defeat an enemy, you have to understand what drives him. When a young man slaughters an old lady saying her prayers in a church, slitting her throat according to the Muslim practice of animal sacrifice, and shouting, “Allahu Akbar,” his motivation is religious not political. Unlike previous terrorists from the Muslim world – Palestinians, for instance, or Algerians – he is not fighting for the political liberation of a territory. His act is, instead, designed to punish a perceived heretic for her religious practice and thereby to advance the cause of Islam. As a terrorist, his goal is also to inspire terror in Western society at large for its impiety and godlessness. It is an act of religious war. Unable to conceive of this because they are indeed godless, having abandoned Christianity and all religion, European states cannot even begin to respond.

John Laughland
John Laughland, who has a doctorate in philosophy from the University of Oxford and who has taught at universities in Paris and Rome, is a historian and specialist in international affairs.
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antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

Ariel wrote:France has 5 million Muslim citizens (just under 9 per cent of its population). That is a lot.
Not wanting to be seen to be downplaying the problem, as with all religious groups you are going to have a wide range of belief and adherence. The Qur'an describes a category of Muslims called "munafiqun" (hypocrites). Muslim communities clearly still contain a large number of this type. Although they would make unreliable allies (they joined Muhammad's raids for a share of the booty and some may suddenly become devout), they will value the life of this world too much to sacrifice it for rewards in the next they don't really believe in.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

antineoETC
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Re: News from France.

Post by antineoETC »

pr126 wrote:I thought that offensive jihad can only be initiated by a caliph. That is why defensive jihad is a duty for all Muslims.
From the point of view of healthy-minded people, rather than Islamic doctrine, NO jihad is defensive. The rabid animal that killed the teacher thought that he was justly responding to to an act of "aggression" against his religion. I am sure the Muslims of Granada thought they were "defending" themselves against the forces of Ferdinand and Isabella in the final stage of the centuries-long reconquista.
"Prophet Muhammad...bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves" SOURCE: BBC website
"Muhammad is considered to be a perfect model" SOURCE: BBC website

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