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Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Discuss world politics in relation to Islam and Muslims.

Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Intelligent lad » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why ... 62319.html

THE FIRST idea was to gather up some grains of the blasted, vitrified, radioactive sand from India's nuclear test site at Pokhran, cocoon them in a suitably pious-looking vessel, then cart them around the country for the faithful to worship and wonder at: radioactive sand, now on tour.

Then they had another think. The next idea they came up with was a Hindu temple to be erected on the same irradiated spot, in the furnace heat of the Rajasthan desert, "to provide an ocular reminder", as one of the boosters of the project put it in yesterday's Sunday Times of India, "of an event which established to the world that India could no longer be taken for granted".

Both of these projects may come to nothing. But they are a useful reminder that, while India's nuclear tests had military, scientific and political dimensions, they were also, in a particular sense, religious. And so were Pakistan's.

India's bomb was a Hindu bomb. Pakistan's bomb was a Muslim bomb. India's indigenous missiles are named Prithvi and Agni after Hindu kings. Pakistan's new long-range missile is named Ghauri, after an Islamic invader, one of many, who was the scourge of Hindus.

Religion, no less than in northern Ireland, is the area of contention in the Indian subcontinent, the mast to which the two sides nail their colours; and the long and frequently desperate history of the encounters of Hinduism and Islam is the inevitable backdrop to the ongoing nuclear hysteria in the region. A frightened and exasperated world is entitled to ask, what exactly is the problem here?

The two religions are, to begin with, about as different as two belief systems could be. Islam is monotheistic, proselytising, anti-idolatrous, fiercely doctrinal, with strong ideas about heresy. Hinduism is pantheistic, uninterested in converting unbelievers, an immense aggregation of different gods, rites, superstitions and beliefs.

There was never going to be a neat fit between the two. But radically different religions do not have to fight. Elsewhere in Asia, Buddhism has coexisted with shamanism and Shintoism. In the subcontinent, Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism have rubbed along with indigenous practices for centuries.

But for nearly a millennium, Islam has been the religion and the badge of the subcontinent's invaders. A little more than a thousand years ago, Hinduism was attaining its apogee of artistic development in the wonderful temples of Khajuraho in present-day Madhya Pradesh, with their fabulous efflorescence of erotic sculpture.

A few years later, in 1000, the first wave of Muslim invasions began, when Mahmud of Ghazni swept down from Afghanistan into the Indus plains and plundered the Hindu temples of their vast wealth of jewellery, money and golden images.

It was too easy and too profitable, and he came back year after year for more. In 1024, greedy and emboldened, he marched as far as Somnath, on the west coast in what is now the state of Gujarat.

Somnath, it is said, possessed the richest and most magnificent Hindu temple in India, where every day 1,000 Brahmins worshipped the enormous lingam or phallus, emblem of the god Shiva, 13.5ft high and 4.5ft in circumference, while 300 men and women danced before it.

When they learned that Mahmud was heading their way, the Hindus persuaded themselves that Shiva had lured him to Somnath only to punish him, and they put up only feeble and unorganised resistance.

In the ensuing massacre, according to nationalist historians, 50,000 Hindus were killed and the temple was razed to the ground. The holy lingam was smashed and carried to Ghazni in fragments, which were embedded, with vicious symbolism, in the steps of the chief mosque.

A ritual of invasion, depredation and humiliation was under way. After Mahmud, there was no end to it: Muizzu'd Din in the 12th century, the Turkish "slave" dynasty and the Delhi Sultanate in the 13th, the Tughluqs in the 14th.

In 1398, Timur the Lame, known more familiarly to us as Tamberlaine, a devout Muslim, the "scourge of God", roared in from the north-west and laid north India to waste. In the space of six months he is believed to have been responsible for 5 million deaths.

And so it went on. When the Mughal Empire was founded in Delhi in 1526, Mughals, of course, being Muslims, too, the Mongol descendants of Timur and Ghengis Khan, Islamic looting and plundering had become as much a fact of north-Indian life as the sun going down.

The Emperor Akbar ushered in a long and remarkable Golden Age in the 16th century, marrying a Hindu princess and appointing Hindu ministers; but his successors, notably Aurangzeb (who became emperor 1658-1707), went back to the bad old ways.

By the time India came under the sway of the British, the endless invasions had left the subcontinent with an enormous population of converted Muslims alongside the Hindus.

Ethnically they were identical; their languages, Urdu (written in Arabic script) and Hindi were essentially one and the same. The mass of them were equally poor, and though their religious practices differed violently - Hindus revering the cows, for example, which Muslims liked to eat - they lived cheek by jowl in their congested cities.

"It was a multicultural coexistence rather than any merger into a single, composite culture," writes the Indian psychoanalyst and author Sudhir Kakur. "Hindus and Muslims lived together separately. They were more than strangers, not often enemies, but less than friends."

Since the bloody partition of India that produced the Islamic state of Pakistan, controversy has raged over the nature of this coexistence.

According to the secularists, who, in the name of the Congress Party, have ruled India for most of the past 50 years, centuries of cohabitation have resulted in the weaving together of the Hindu and Islamic strands of India's cultural heritage, to the point where they form a single cloth and cannot be separated without violence.

As the secularists see it, it is the solemn duty of India's rulers not to pander to "communal" sentiment - not to prefer one religion or one group of believers over another - because that is the way to destroy society's fabric.

The Hindu nationalists, in contrast, argue that it is Islam's intolerance and claim to exclusive truth that has led to the destruction, over and over again, of Hinduism's treasures and the defilement of its holy places, and that India's fundamental problem has been the failure of Hindus to stand up and fight.

That is what, through militant organisations like the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) they have been trying for the past century to rectify. The demolition of the Babri Masjid Mosque in Ayodhya in 1992 was one way of doing that - the nationalists claimed the mosque had been built on the site of an important Hindu temple.

Now, at last, through the Hindu nationalist BJP, they are in control of India's destiny. With hindsight, it should have surprised no-one that almost the first thing they did once in power was to set off an atomic bomb. They have a millennium of Islamic wrongs to right.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why ... 62319.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwUB5cS6YLU
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby StrongLove » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:13 am

It sounds like Hindus are very much like most people. They want peace. When war comes to their door they try not to answer. Much like people today, they turn their heads. But we all know what happens when you turn your back on an animal. It must be faced if you hope to survive.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Sir Winston Churchill
" The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

Winston Churchill
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:49 am

StrongLove wrote:It sounds like Hindus are very much like most people. They want peace. When war comes to their door they try not to answer. Much like people today, they turn their heads. But we all know what happens when you turn your back on an animal. It must be faced if you hope to survive.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

Sir Winston Churchill


According to Yohan, Islam succeeded to its present extent in the subcontinent because it was always on the offensive whereas Hindus did fight but only when it was needed.Needless to say with these strategies,ultimately Islam will win.If Hindus had totally desisted from fighting all of subcontinent would have been Muslim by now.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:26 pm

Yohan wrote: Arabs had conquered Sind and were ruling it for some 300 years by the time Gori came about. Gori himself didn't come out of the woodworks suddenly. Muslims had already defeated Hindu Kings of Afghanistan. Gazni had already made his numerous plundering raids deep into India. Indians of NorthWest already had a strong feeling that something was lurking dangerously outside its borders. They had assembled an amalgamation of forces of Hindu Kingdoms in the area under Prithvi Raj to fight the Muslims. But Hindus lost.

The reason: Hindus were always on the defensive while Muslims were on the offensive. In that strategy it is the defenders who lose out most of the time. Hindu defensive startegy has continued ever since with a few exceptions.

- Muslims had again used a strategy of aggressiveness during Indian independence and got away with 25% of its land. So why blame the ancient Hindus? Blame goes for the modern Hindus too, in failing to understand the Muslim mind even after some 1300 years of humiliating experience.


http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53700&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Yohan » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:50 am

^^ Thanks for pointing out my old posting. I sometimes enjoy reading my old writings in this forum.
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Centaur » Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:26 am

wasn't it the same case with Christians? by the time they realised and formulated crusade or whatever they not only lost North Africa and middle East but Muslims even conquered Asia minor and Spain.

a Muslim timer just wiped out may be about 20 percent of then world population
lessons learned.?
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:31 pm

Centaur wrote:wasn't it the same case with Christians? by the time they realised and formulated crusade or whatever they not only lost North Africa and middle East but Muslims even conquered Asia minor and Spain.

a Muslim timer just wiped out may be about 20 percent of then world population
lessons learned.?
nahh


Spain however eventually could expel all the muslims from their land thanks to generous assistance from other European Christians.The exclusivist position of Christianity gives it that extra theological power.The pantheist ideology of Hinduism does not permit such an expulsion of all Muslims unless you first accept that the other religions are false , a position if taken would also eventually disprove Hinduism as other religionists would point out errors in Hinduism.All religions are afterall just hoaxes to keep the ignorant masses under delusions.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:37 pm

Somnath, it is said, possessed the richest and most magnificent Hindu temple in India, where every day 1,000 Brahmins worshipped the enormous lingam or phallus, emblem of the god Shiva, 13.5ft high and 4.5ft in circumference, while 300 men and women danced before it.


Rivalry between Vishnu worship and the worship of another god, Shiva, had grown. The worshipers of Shiva tended to be rural, more intense in their devotion and more concerned with sin, especially the sin of carnality, while the worshipers of Vishnu were more urbane and moderate. The rural Shiva worshippers were closer to fertility worship than the worshippers of Vishnu, and some devoted to Vishnu derided the followers of Shiva as phallus worshipers. The priests of Vishnu worship tended to be Brahmins and saw their god Vishnu as both a god of love and a protector of order. They thought themselves more dignified than the priests of Shiva, and they saw themselves as maintaining Hinduism's noble tradition


http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/rel-india.htm

So inspite of lingam being called arooparoopam or formless form and not a phallus,history seems to prove that it indeed is a fertility phallic symbol.However it is interesting to note that even though Shaivites were phallic worshippers , they were more concerned with carnal sins.Might be they just followed the meme without comprehending the meaning of the stone idol while following oral traditions against carnal sins.

When they learned that Mahmud was heading their way, the Hindus persuaded themselves that Shiva had lured him to Somnath only to punish him, and they put up only feeble and unorganised resistance.

In the ensuing massacre, according to nationalist historians, 50,000 Hindus were killed and the temple was razed to the ground. The holy lingam was smashed and carried to Ghazni in fragments, which were embedded, with vicious symbolism, in the steps of the chief mosque
.


Also, "the cross represents the Tree of Life", the age-old fertility symbol, combining the vertical male and horizontal female principles, especially in Egypt, either as an ordinary cross, or better known in the form of the crux ansata, the Egyptian ankh (sometimes called the Tau cross), which had been carried over into our modern-day symbol of the female, well known in biology.


http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/origin_of_cross.htm

So did muslims do the same to the cross which is also a fertility symbol?
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby ringmaster » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:54 pm

A more relevant question would be:

"Why can't muslims get along with anybody?"

Even a cursory reading of the koran explains why. The question's answer, whether it relates to Hindus, or to all non-muslims, is so obvious that its lengthy discussion is not necessary.
The prophet of Islam was nothing more than a common criminal.

Please tell me if this is accurate:

“I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.”
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:46 pm

The smashing of idol has nothing to do with celebration of fertility worship.It has more to do with Iconoclastic/anti-idolatrous attitude in Islam.

Verse 2:223:Your wives are a farm for you; so come to your farm as-and-when you please, and take steps for yourselves. And revere Allah; and know that you are going to meet Him. And give glad tidings to the Believers.

Your wives are a tilth for you, so go to your tilth (have sexual relations with your wives in any manner as long as it is in the vagina and not in the anus), when or how you will, and send (good deeds, or ask Allâh to bestow upon you pious offspring) before you for your ownselves. And fear Allâh, and know that you are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give good tidings to the believers (O Muhammad SAW)
.


http://www.qurantoday.com/BaqSec28.htm

After all muslims too understand sexual relations in the same manner as fertility worship.Husband is male cultivator who seeds the wife who in turn is symbolised as land.Explicit expression of fertility celebration.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:48 pm

Going to the battle, marching with easy gait, desiring the spoil, he set himself
to the acquisition of all (wealth). Invincible, destroying the phallus-
worshippers, he won by his prowess whatever wealth (was concealed in the city)
with the hundred gates
.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meykandar/message/20938

Back then Aryan god Indra was depicted as more powerful than Shiva who is no doubt a phallic god(sisna deva).
sisna means phallus and lingam means gender nowadays and not phallus nevertheless giving a hint in that direction.But phallus worshippers seemed to have received a double whammy first at the hands of Aryans and next at the hands of muslims inspite of sugar coating/redifing it as arooparoopam(formlessform).

Perhaps as someone pointed out in this forum muslims and Aryans observed strict celibacy staying away from getting laid which would have enhanced their rage to pillage.

Interestingly, Shiva appeared in a pillar of fire, called a fire lingam,


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10379&p=161115&hilit=lingam#p161115

Another meaning and story given to lingam.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:10 pm

Legalizing prostitution would certainly help cure many angry muslims' bad attitude. Lots of them sound like they desperately need to get laid.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8762&p=139602&hilit=laid#p139602

Like, it would relieve sexual frustration of people who are normally not able to get laid. Sexually frustrated individuals can cause a lot of havoc, you know... :whistling:


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8762&p=140053&hilit=laid#p140053

So you adopt the policy of brideprice,cause a lot of frustration by restraining the natural sexual urges of your followers and channel that pent up frustration into moral uprighteousness which in the case of Mahmud of Ghazni is against idolatry and thus achieve grand successes.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:06 pm

India's bomb was a Hindu bomb. Pakistan's bomb was a Muslim bomb. India's indigenous missiles are named Prithvi and Agni after Hindu kings. Pakistan's new long-range missile is named Ghauri, after an Islamic invader, one of many, who was the scourge of Hindus.


While a king named Prithviraj Chauhan did exist who won the first time and lost the next time against Muslim invaders,there is no king called Agni.Agni simply means fire somewhat similiar to English ignite or to set fire.

Yes some Hindu dynasties claimed their descent from fire god himself(Agni kula kshatriyas).But to the best of what I know there is no Hindu king called Agni.I will be happy to see any proof is produced to the contrary.
Last edited by Nosuperstition on Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:54 am

As such some of the names of missiles developed by India are Prithvi(meaning earth as it is a surface to surface missile),Akash or sky as it is a surface to air missile. Prithvi is not named after Pritviraj Chauhan.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Sun May 05, 2013 3:13 pm

A few years later, in 1000, the first wave of Muslim invasions began, when Mahmud of Ghazni swept down from Afghanistan into the Indus plains and plundered the Hindu temples of their vast wealth of jewellery, money and golden images.

It was too easy and too profitable, and he came back year after year for more. In 1024, greedy and emboldened, he marched as far as Somnath, on the west coast in what is now the state of Gujarat.

Somnath, it is said, possessed the richest and most magnificent Hindu temple in India,


Cassie wrote:
BOT wrote:YOU LOOTED India. You took the treasures that you unearthed from the temples and other ancient sites in India to Britian.
You looted Northern India.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=704&p=12540&hilit=looted+Northern+India#p12540

The riches of North India (divided into small principalities and hence easily conquered and looted) were siphoned off to Central Asia and Middle East.The South managed to keep its riches intact under the unified Vijayanagar Empire by engaging in war sacrifices of terrifying scale with Muslims of Bahmani Empire but alas with the arrival of Brits,much of the wealth of temples of South also seem to have been taken away.The argument of muslim apologists is that under their rule more wealth was produced in India later under stable Mughal Empire than had been produced under previous Hindu rulers and under the rule of Brits that wealth was siphoned off.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:30 pm

Cassie indulged in tu quo que with BOT as one can see in my above post.

Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?Answer is simple.pila sako to amrit pilao vish pilaana math seekho.A faourite line of mine written by a Hindi poet.If you can do it make somebody drink elixir of immortality (that is something sweet and nice) but do not learn to make people drink poison.However poison spreads quite fast and there is no dearth of people who want to spread poison on earth.Hence people do not get along together.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:17 pm

Somnath, it is said, possessed the richest and most magnificent Hindu temple in India, where every day 1,000 Brahmins worshipped the enormous lingam or phallus, emblem of the god Shiva, 13.5ft high and 4.5ft in circumference, while 300 men and women danced before it.


Only 300.Thats it.By the way all of that has come a ground halt thanks to Josaiah and Judaism.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-23-18/

7 Then King Josiah broke down the houses of the male prostitutes who were in the Lord’s Temple.


http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Kings+23&version=ERV
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby antineoETC » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:44 am

Is there any truth in the claim that lower caste Hindus were attracted to the religon of Muslim conquerors because of the notional equality of all Muslims in the sight of Allah? I would hazard that there was more likelihood of a Muslim slave becoming a ruler than a low-caste Hindu.
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:08 pm

Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp.


http://biblehub.com/psalms/149-3.htm

Offering of dance is something not uncommon to the Jewish god either.Only difference could be that the dancers should not be involved in extra-marital sex.King David is said to have danced naked before the ark of the Covenant.

antineoETC wrote:Is there any truth in the claim that lower caste Hindus were attracted to the religon of Muslim conquerors because of the notional equality of all Muslims in the sight of Allah? I would hazard that there was more likelihood of a Muslim slave becoming a ruler than a low-caste Hindu


Well the powerful Nanda dynasty that ruled over much of the Gangetic plains has a barber as its founder.That is according to one version.

The people enjoyed freedom of following the religion of their faith with out any fear. The people followed Jainism, Hinduism, and Buddhism. But the rulers of the Nanda Empire embraced Jainism.


http://dalitvision.blogspot.in/2013/03/mahapadma-nanda-first-shudra-king-of.html

But it seemed they did not like to remain Hindu.Mahapadma Nanda ,the founder is said to have acquired the Empire after conniving with queen Sunanda devi of Magadha.He is said to have demoted Kshatriyas or warrior class conquered by him to Shudra status.

Al-Beruni supposedly saw defeated Kshatriya clans being demoted to untouchable status by Brahmins.He found the practice rather strange.

Might be another instance of a low born one rising to Emperor status could be found in case of Mauryas.


Two different traditions survive about the origins of Chandragupta, portraying him as either a lowly-born relative of the Nanda family, the son of Mura (thus Maurya), or as a member of a nomadic Himalayan tribe, the Mauryas.


http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/wars_mauryan_empire.html

Anyway, local Brahmins in Maharashtra refused to coronote Shivaji as Emperor due to his supposedly low birth status and for that reason he had to bring in Brahmins from far away to get himself annointed. :nono: :nono: :nono:
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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Re: Why can't Hindus and Muslims get along together?

Postby Nosuperstition » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:13 pm

If the offer of embracing Islam had indeed been that lucrative,I doubt whether Hinduism would have been able to retain so many of the low-caste people.Rather people converted due to/succumbed under carrot and stick policy.

One or two persons could have become emperors of the so called Slave dynasty,but the status of vast majority remains more or less the same.

Muslims also supposedly destroyed the Shudra kingdom of Kols.So might be Shudras too could have risen to ruling class status under Hinduism.
The God who punishes finite sins with infinite torment is someone who is totally devoid of compassion.Such a God is the most cruel one in all of the universe.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man --- Thomas Paine
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